Reserved

This is my entry for the contest:

Melee Mapping Contest #2


(maybe I will edit it to adjust something before time is out, like a bug if I detect something)

If someone want to give me feedback/hints/bugs detections, is most welcome/appreciated.

 

This definitely gives me a "Starbound" feeling for the terrain style with monster selection.
It also reminds me of Skyrim a little...

 

"Starbound"

Thanks a lot, I did this map in 24 days(started the 22 Aug.) (to do it slow and focus on details).

"Skyrim", ... "Skyrim belongs to the norths!!", "I was an adveturer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.

Yeah I understand you at 100%.

 

A nice map created from you.
I do like the concept of the terrain and the selection of types of creeps.

Good thing that you made abundant places for AOW creeping
and one of two expos are protected by strong creeps.

The only two concerns I have are

1) Tree wall is too thin. It might not be sufficient enough to block or protect the base entries.
2) Some neutral buildings, such as fountain of mana and marketplace might harm the balance. It is likely that the fountain of mana is going to favor certain races which has healing abilities.

Yet, the quality of the map is high overall, showing a notable improvement in your map making skill!

 

thanks!!!!, yes this map is my best (more time dedicated).


1) thanks for that hint, I will consider it, i don´t want to do chokepoints, but I will see if I can add more wood.

2) About the marketplace, well I am aiming to have the best marketplace balanced and that means have it in a zone that can only be access by zeppeling, plus is out-of-game, you risk to have your hero / army out of a defensive/offensive position. Competitive melee play is like AOS you can´t risk being out of position unless you get a very good reward.

About the mana fountain, I agree that health fountains benefit orcs.
But I think the mana benefit all casters of all races, not only healing: AOE skills like the ground pikes of the nerubian lord are quite nasty. I think that doing damage can be more harmfull than healing. Bramar skill + attack improves in the hunters hall is dangerous.

Also I need the mana fountain to counter the marketplace. It won´t worth to go there to kill a red creep, but its worth to retreat there to full the mana, specially on night.


Here I link a video of Orange playing Secret valley with 2 health fountains and in the middle!!!! fun play!!. My fountain of mana is very out-of game (corner) so is not like to be there because your main base will be undefended. Also the red creep has a dragon level 6 with splash damage so is gonna be for late game (and having the 2do expansion).



I know I am risking with the mana fountain and marketplace (and I am not the only one doing it), but hey If I don´t risk I won´t win.

 

Hi Ragnaros, here is my review:

Big fan of mixed tilesets, and I think the red / ice combination is quite a pleasing mix you have chosen - unique and appealing.
I like the overall layout, and creeps chosen.

Here is my points you could change / add:

1) the two "Ogre Magi orange camps" toward the middle, are too strong for the reward. To fix this, only have 1 Ogre Magi, instead of 2. SO Level 5 Ogre Magi, level 4 Troll beserker, and Level 2 Priest, to make it level 11 (still orange) but reducing difficulty slightly.

2) I would personally make the two Mercenary camps in the middle, Goblin Merchant shops instead (move current location to merc camps in middle). You already have a merc camp either side somehwat 'behind' the main bases, I don't see the reason behind adding two more in the middle. I'd prefer these to be shops to fight over and control in the 'center'. (Keep the creeps from goblin shop, remove the merc camp ones the 'Bandit Lord' feel a bit out of place.

3) If you were to move the shops to replace middle Mercs, I would move the 4 / 4 / 3 /1 "Arachnathid" camp around where the Goblin Shop currently is, and facing toward the main bases. This will also make the area around the base a little more cluttered, as you have many camps around the base

4) You have x2 sets of 'Level 2 charged' drops, which I generally disagree with on pretty much all 1v1 maps, because Sentry Wards, Lightning shield are too strong, if you get twice in a row. I prefer 2x sets of 'Level 2 permanent' , which I find more balanced item drops. Maybe change the Polar bear/frost wolf/ troll priest/ beserker camp to 1 Polar Bear + 2 frost wolves + 1 troll priest for level 10 total, and level 2 permanent.


Spacing of the map is very good, you have given players plenty of options and room to fight which I like very much. the map will be unique in games, because there is many camps and options, creating potential long and epic games with options for 2 expansions each player and red camps which are in center to fight over.

Goodluck in the contest

 

your sugestions seems to be very good ones!!!, I don´t think I could implement them before contest ends because I am paiting my house.

1) ogre magi camp, is not that hard, it doesn´t have a tank like the orgre mauler level 5 ( 1 mauler and 1 magi is more strong than 2 magi), just the mages (spell casters and the trolls, with no ensnare skill wich makes more easy to micro the wounded)
is a level 14 creep maybe is in the middle line, a bit too much for a level 2 but to low for a level 3 items, a permenent level 2 seems ok, I prefer a bit low drop than high drop.

2) interesting, the reason is to have conection and push the center to domain the map, also the merc camps back have more easy units than the others in the center, healer and one with inmolation.
the reason is they are different tile-sets, different units.
in the dungeon merc camp , at back, tank is level 4
in the lordaeron summer merc camp, tank is level 5.

3) the creep is a 4/3/3/1, I updated that camp, I would not like to put a poison creep in a goblin merchant do to balance. Poison is bad to orcs.

4) sentry wards at 100% is a common thing, and scouting has a high value, no need to build a farm, if you have info you can use it against the enemy,. some people use the rune of the watcher wich I don´t like that much because is invulnerable and no time limit.

about the lighthining shield, while I read a lot of bad comments to that item, I saw it in use in some plays and its is quite fun.
if your units gets that thing, send it to the enemy and he will suffer,!!!, the chances of getting 2 of those are 0,16x0,16 = 0,0256

thats = 2.56 % , it means that from 100 plays only 3 plays will may loot 2 ligthing wand in a row, is a really low chance, worst that the hard mounts in wow dungeons. Is a strong item but I put them with teh charged level 3, the scroll of the beast seems to be more powerfull combined with users who upgrade weapons instead of armor, and combined with the scroll of protection of the goblin market, thats hard.

"the 'Bandit Lord' feel a bit out of place." not agree
there is a town nearby, where is a town, there may be bandits, and it fits with the bandits mages with the water elementals near the water parts.

it has much more place than my swamp creeps or my voidwalkers creeps wich don´t match with other parts.

I even recognice that the mana creeps seems a pop up invasion in that town, but it mirages the marketplace creeps (ice / fire dragons)

"the map will be unique in games, because there is many camps and options, creating potential long and epic games"

thanks a lot !!,

probably there are tons of things (hidden) in this map that I don´t know/ tested, but well , I am glad that I put a lot of effort in it.

 

10/10 Environment

 

thanks a lot, glad you like it.

 

Approved based on reviews here: Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Results

 

Cool.

 

thanks

 

you're welcome.

 

Really great.

 

I will actually set this map to Awaiting Update, because numerous issues mentioned in the contest reviews have not yet been addressed.

 

-The bases themselves have a terrible layout that
makes walling off to defend tier 2 and workers impossible. They are way to exposed and open
with multiple entry points that are all closely connected, making defense hard and harrashment
powerful, espically with the short distance.

Improved

- the natural expansion is too close to the starting location and too easy for humans – it
can be cleared with 1 archmage, a footman and 4 militia without any losses and grants a
whole level to the archmage

Creep level changed from 14 to 16, also it is now more far

- dead ends near starting locations and the bottom left area seem confusing and rather
unnecessary

Improved

- the natural expo creep grants either gloves of haste or staff of tp – one item is incredibly
mediocre, the other is very good (also, it’s kind of unusual for creeps to drop staff of tp)

removed the staff

- merchant creep camp is easily abusable by blademaster windwalking behind berserkers
thus making it impossible for the wolves to attack him – this means that blademaster can
kill both berserkers at level 1 and run away with 136 experience (out of 200 needed for lv2)

changed the creep

Overall, without the blademaster issue and the glaring easy-natural-expansion-for-humans
problem, the map feels quite solid balance-wise,

both fixed (I think)


I think this should do....

 

Alright, you've made certain changes, but I think you forgot to do a few things or misinterpreted some issues.

✅ The natural expansion is still quite close, but, more importantly, it's still possible to clear it with the same amount of units as before (I actually even tried doing it without the Footman and still didn't lose a single unit).

✅ The top natural expansion still drops the Staff of Teleportation (the bottom expansion drops only gloves as you probably intended).

✅ You changed the Trolls at the Goblin Merchant camp, but the "troll-blocking" can still be manipulated which means a Blademaster can sit behind the Troll Warlord and receive damage from only one wolf. This means a Blademaster can kill the Warlord and run away with 120 xp and an item - a rather questionable improvement. Maybe instead of changing creeps you could simply remove some trees, so that wolves can go around the trolls in the back?

Dead ends have indeed been removed, no problems here.

The starting locations seem possible to defend against harass, so again, no problems here.

Edit: Further changes have been made, map is fit for approval.

 

The natural expansion is still quite close, but, more importantly, it's still possible to clear it with the same amount of units as before (I actually even tried doing it without the Footman and still didn't lose a single unit).

now level 17 creep is a 6-5-3-3, more and it will be almost a red.

The top natural expansion still drops the Staff of Teleportation (the bottom expansion drops only gloves as you probably intended).

yup, my mistake, fixed

You changed the Trolls at the Goblin Merchant camp, but the "troll-blocking" can still be manipulated which means a Blademaster can sit behind the Troll Warlord and receive damage from only one wolf. This means a Blademaster can kill the Warlord and run away with 120 xp and an item - a rather questionable improvement. Maybe instead of changing creeps you could simply remove some trees, so that wolves can go around the trolls in the back?

oh sorry ,yeah I didn´t get it, now it should work