Map Section issues {A message to all map "reviewers".}

[Ironside]

Am I the only member against this "auto-delete-posts-after-a-while"? Just do things opposite as they are now: put the newest comments to the first page and the oldest comments to the last page. That way people can't be confused, but still they can read the history of the map and old reviews.

For me it's sometimes necessary to look old comments, if I forgot to put something down. Also it's nice to look where I started with a map and what kind of reviews I had when I first time uploaded a map and then look the newest reviews to see how am I improved and how I can still improve.

And besides, what does that solve anyway? Still we have a lot of maps in map section.

To Thfatman: What website you are using nowadays if you don't use Hive?

I am against the auto delete too, also as far as I know there already is a setting in options that allows you to show old comments on last page and new ones on front.

 

[Thfatman]

To Thfatman: What website you are using nowadays if you don't use Hive?

I still come to THW to check out the maps and such, and I just recently ended my time at my old forum (Too much socializing, not enough modding) so currently, none. I just hop around from site to site.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

I am against the auto delete too, also as far as I know there already is a setting in options that allows you to show old comments on last page and new ones on front.

Really? That's great... But in that way there's one problem however: If there's a long map description it eats pretty much of the space. Maybe a different page for all map descriptions and reviews? That way they are at least separated, but I don't know if it's too much job for Ralle.

I still come to THW to check out the maps and such, and I just recently ended my time at my old forum (Too much socializing, not enough modding) so currently, none. I just hop around from site to site.

Ahh, okay.

 

[ap0calypse]

All I did was get flamed because I had minor errors

To be fair: you flamed back at them.
Also, those were the days that mods just looked at the maps, not specifically the comments (which I do now).
Meatfactory was an ass on your map, I can say that much - but you stopped because of one troll?
Do you realize that there were more people who said they liked the map than people who said it sucked?

Well, I guess it's all over now - I'm just trying to say that if you weren't so aggressive back then, you probably would've noticed those good comments as well.

Plus, a couple of the people said they didn't even try it, and didn't want to because of the name. Making your basis on whether to try a map based on the name is just retarded. I could see the description, because if it's something that doesn't interest you, then why try it. But the name?

I honestly haven't seen such a comment in your map, but I am quite sure that this happened before.
It's exactly like you said though: people will be asses, no way to stop them.
If you see such a comment ever again, just either ignore it or report it (if you report it, I'll remove it and either warn him or give him -rep and can eventually lead to a ban).

It's like leaving a kid near a cookie jar, with the instructions," Don't eat a cookie." He's going to do it, because you turn your back. Same with this. The kids will be good while you're watching, but a moment later, BAM, flaming another user. In order for this to really work, you need to weed out the trolls with punishments other than just negative rep (What the hell does that even do anyways?).

-rep is like the "no moar cookie for you!", since rep is the "here, have a a cookie" - some people just want rep really badly.
But it's not just -rep.
I've banned people for trolling and/or flaming, so instead of taking away the cookie jar, I take away the child That'll stop 'em!

Thanks for the comments by the way, it's much appreciated since the only people who responded here are those who haven't been trolled at their maps before (well, most people who respond here).
Just one warning: do not feed the troll, never. You fed him and the results were obvious.

 

[Skycraft]

There are ignore/report commands aren't there?
Instead of people complaining about trolls they should use that >_< It's their own fault for letting themselves get trolled. Well that's how I see it anyway.

All you need to do is get a screenshot of them trolling, report it, then you win.
Problem solved.

 

[Rui]

(...)
The creators of a map must be able to select reviews as well though (only in their own map thread).
(...)

Like Kobas said, this doesn't really work too well. (...)

Note that my initial proposal was to have only moderators marking posts as reviews. Having the map submitter do the same was ap0calypse's idea. My response is that giving a user any kind of thread moderation permissions always results in abuse, so if this is taken forward, I'd most unlikely allow them to do it.

Am I the only member against this "auto-delete-posts-after-a-while"? Just do things opposite as they are now: put the newest comments to the first page and the oldest comments to the last page. That way people can't be confused, but still they can read the history of the map and old reviews.

You've probably misinterpreted the problem. It was never about users getting confused -- as far as I can tell, they don't --, it's about promoting actual reviews in detriment of having a map with 1000 comments where the majority of those comments are rubble.
As for inversing the order, I believe you can edit it in your User Control Panel.

For me it's sometimes necessary to look old comments, if I forgot to put something down. Also it's nice to look where I started with a map and what kind of reviews I had when I first time uploaded a map and then look the newest reviews to see how am I improved and how I can still improve.

How would such a system go against that? There's nothing to stop us from marking as reviews multiple posts from the same user, provided they were given to different versions.

And besides, what does that solve anyway? Still we have a lot of maps in map section.

My suggestion was meant to address large influx of comments. The lack of moderators is a distinct issue.

I am against the auto delete too, also as far as I know there already is a setting in options that allows you to show old comments on last page and new ones on front.

Like I already wrote, it has to do with making reviews more noticeable.

 

[ap0calypse]

Note that my initial proposal was to have only moderators marking posts as reviews. Having the map submitter do the same was ap0calypse's idea. My response is that giving a user any kind of thread moderation permissions always results in abuse, so if this is taken forward, I'd most unlikely allow them to do it.

A moderator can't check all maps for valuable reviews.
A lot of posts (which are actually important for the map) will be lost that way.
Surely they could abuse it by ignoring the posts with negative reviews, but the rating will stay (ratings will not get deleted, that would go too far).

You'll lose something either way:
If you don't let users be able to mark reviews in their own thread, you'll lose reviews.
If you let them be able to mark reviews, they're able to 'remove' those negative comments (although they will never be able to remove posts, just mark them).

All you need to do is get a screenshot of them trolling, report it, then you win.
Problem solved.

You don't even need to screeny it
If you report a post, the moderators will be able to see the original post so we can judge that post
No screeny required ^^

 

[Aeroblyctos]

You've probably misinterpreted the problem. It was never about users getting confused -- as far as I can tell, they don't --, it's about promoting actual reviews in detriment of having a map with 1000 comments where the majority of those comments are rubble.

Actually some people really get confused and I have seen that many times before. They read the first page's comments and then start to quote those comments. It's not a big problem however.

Like I already wrote, it has to do with making reviews more noticeable.

Aha, so that's the problem. Doesn't maps have an own place for reviews? Oh yea, it's just meant for moderator. Isn't that enough? The map creator can always request another review for his map if needed.

Well, now that I think again I'm not against this. Whatever for me, but I still think there are other things that should be fixed than this minor thing.

 

[-Kobas-]

Why you don't give moderator powers to few guys out there and after 2 weeks or more pick 1 or more, no need for award no need for shitz... Instead of scripts that should check maps, instead of comments and so on, find guy or 2 who will help ap0!

 

[Rui]

I forgot to mention that people who review maps should send us a private message to mark their posts as reviews.

As for promotions, I'll start looking for people.

 

[Boris_Spider]

Out of curiosity, is there a designated request thread for getting maps reviewed? I'd assume there is (at least in theory), because map modding and map reviewing are different (this has been argued earlier in this thread).

//\\0o//\\

 

[ap0calypse]

I forgot to mention that people who review maps should send us a private message to mark their posts as reviews.

Aha, that makes the system better indeed.
Of course, a system would be better than PM's, but I don't think Ralle's up for the job.
And IF we get a system, then I suggest a little button (similar to the "mark review" button) that everyone can press if they think they made a review.
Every moderator can then check a list of posts and mark the actual reviews (this really doesn't take long, abuse will be punished of course).
But as I said before, probably not going to happen (the review-system).

Out of curiosity, is there a designated request thread for getting maps reviewed? I'd assume there is (at least in theory), because map modding and map reviewing are different (this has been argued earlier in this thread).

//\\0o//\\

There are a lot of people who want their map to be reviewed.
In case such a forum exists only a very small amount of those maps will get an actual review and perhaps more people get angry because 'their request got ignored'.
Much like the maps section, but then even more posts getting ignored (reviewing takes longer than moderating).

And if someone's really desperate: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact-692/.
That's the place to go ^^

 

[Deolrin]

How about simply letting the user that made the map being able to report 'bad' comments with the click of a button, the moderators will check that in a specifically made forum, and hide\delete the past as well as punish the user?
The same could be applied for helpful reviews, perhaps even adding a separate 'section' for approved reviews much like dA's critique system.

 

[Boris_Spider]

There are a lot of people who want their map to be reviewed.
In case such a forum exists only a very small amount of those maps will get an actual review and perhaps more people get angry because 'their request got ignored'.
Much like the maps section, but then even more posts getting ignored (reviewing takes longer than moderating).

And if someone's really desperate: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact-692/.
That's the place to go ^^

~Indeed

~It makes sense for requests to get ignored, THW hasn't the means to even moderate the map section. (Evidence: 17 pages of pending maps and counting)

~Ah, so I was right.

It makes sense to require reviews to be requested by the uploader AFTER the map has been moderated and approved by 10 (arbitrary number...) other users.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Vosty]

I really like where Rui is taking this.
Getting user marked as "valid critics" is not a bad idea. Of course we have to get one of the admins or Ralle on this.
Rui: are you currently planning on implementing something soon?

 

[The World Is Flat]

WE already know what needs to be done, we will just wait for hive 2.0

 

[Rui]

Unfortunately, I do not possess the scripting knowledge (nor the patience to learn it, at moment) to implement anything by myself. My proposal hasn't been discussed internally, either, I'm just getting the public impressions to see what I can count on.

 

[PurplePoot]

"Valid Critics" sound dangerously like minimods.

 

[ap0calypse]

"Valid Critics" sound dangerously like minimods.

The difference with minimods is (or should be) that there is no specific group: if a review is good, it will be marked as one - regardless of who wrote it.
That's how I see it at least.

With minimods, the problem is that it could turn into "I'm a minimod, it's rejected because I don't find it good enough" (very roughly said, I hope you get the point).
If you don't have a specific group, you don't get this problem (and giving someone a good review is obviously worth some reputation, which could encourage people to write a bit more).

 

[PurplePoot]

The difference with minimods is (or should be) that there is no specific group: if a review is good, it will be marked as one - regardless of who wrote it.
That's how I see it at least.

With minimods, the problem is that it could turn into "I'm a minimod, it's rejected because I don't find it good enough" (very roughly said, I hope you get the point).
If you don't have a specific group, you don't get this problem (and giving someone a good review is obviously worth some reputation, which could encourage people to write a bit more).

Actually the idea was to mark certain users as "valid critics" ie minimods.

 

[ap0calypse]

Actually the idea was to mark certain users as "valid critics" ie minimods.

Oh, I misread the post - I prefer my idea to be honest.

 

[Rui]

I honestly would prefer to wait and see how much work results from having users send us private messages.
Also, remember that «deleted» in vB does not mean «permanently gone».

 

[The World Is Flat]

ITs all about waiting, we know the system.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Yeah, definitely ap0's idea.
It's counter productive to give them something to be MORE cocky about D;

 

[Rui]

I believe everyone has noticed already, but -Kobas- has taken a Map Moderator role for the time being.

 

[WarManta]

I read like 10% of this thread and felt the need to post something.....

Where is the spot to apply to help for map moderator?
Tho I do doubt if i'd get it, it'd be worth a try to help since I don't care about the new preload bug and I could easily take care of it.

Since I spend 80% of my time looking at everything in hive, wouldn't it be a benefit I attempted to help?

 

[-Kobas-]

You don't need to apply, just check some maps in your free time, post some simple, but still good review and send us message or report that map!
Map moderators will check it as soon as possible!

 

[WarManta]

What happens when I give you 25 maps to check?

 

[PurplePoot]

Then they eventually check them.

Or if they're busy feel free to send them along to me and I'll take a look and forward my recommendations if applicable.

 

[-Kobas-]

We just like PurplePoot said we will try to check them as soon as possible, I am cleaning melee and terrain maps right now from back (to be fair to users who uploaded maps few months ago) and new problematic maps!

I suggest you to upload your best maps, we will check them and give suggestions, if they are really good go upload all, if not, grrrrr you won't need to bother with rest