Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

[Silverfish423]

What do you mean by "should don't use cliff on there"? And yes i noticed you gave me rep, thank you!

 

[PrinceOfThaWest]

Simply awesome, always loved maps like this. Looking forward to see final version, because this is going to rock for sure. So many races, so many options and what not. In love with this project already!

 

[FRENGERS]

What do you mean by "should don't use cliff on there"? And yes i noticed you gave me rep, thank you!

It mean you shoul'd don't use cliffing, it make bad terrain
Just use the raise and lower with pathing blocker to block it

 

[Silverfish423]

@Witch-King: Thanks!! Im glad you like it =) Have you tried out the WIP (work in progress) Map yet? It can be downloaded from the first post. You can get a taste of what the map will be like by playing Silver Hand, Deathwing, Forsaken, or Ironforge! Of course, they are still in development as well.

@FRENGERS: Oh yes, of course! I only use cliffs for the edges between the land and water (where I do not want a beach or whatever). In every other instance, I use the raise/lower tool!

 

[Chickenshot]

this looks cool, does there any AI?

 

[Silverfish423]

Not yet unfortunately :/ I have not gotten to that yet
Yet, you may have noticed that there are 24 races to choose from but only 12 players...which means half of the races will be uncontrolled. I hope to add some triggers (AI maybe?) in the future (possibly v1.0 or v1.5) that will cause races uncontrolled by players to build, attack buildings, expand a bit, etc. That way unused races around a player will not feel stagnant, but like an actually living enemy!
speaking of which, i shuld add that to the brainstorming section....

 

[FRENGERS]

It will be AI, yes sure it will
Because sometime he will be AI coder
In to your house, why don't we share?? Our solitude..
Nothing is pure anymore, but solitude

 

[Silverfish423]

The Night Elves
We are Elune's chosen"

Known as one of the first intelligent humanoids to arise on Azeroth, the Night Elves basked in the glory of the Well of Eternity. The Kal'dorei, Children of the Stars, were drawn out of the darkness to it's power and through it, quickly expanded into a grand empire. Much has past since those years, but the Night Elves are still an ancient race to be feared and will defend their lands with the upmost strength and valor.
Do you have what it takes to defend the lands of the Kal'dorei?

Heroes

Tyrande Whisperwind
"Only the Goddess may forbid me anything"

Tyrande is known for many things...honorable, reckless, fierce, proud, strong, kind...yet she is known best by her title as High Priestess of Elune. Using the Moon Goddess as her guide, Tyrande will lead the Night Elves as they defend their homelands against invaders while fulfilling Elune's vision as well.​

​

Malfurion Stormrage
"If pride gives us pause...then perhaps we have lived long enough already"

Unfortunately, the Archdruid has fallen into what seems to be an unbreakable sleep. Yet, his powers and wisdom will be invaluable to the Night Elves as they engage with the affairs of the world. It is your duty to awake him..if you so wish.​

Fandral Staghelm
"The War of the Shifting Sands...I wish I could forget it ever happened."

Scarred by the death of his only son, Fandral has taken the mantle of Archdruid in Malfurion's absence. Constantly at odds with the High Priestess over how to run Night Elven affairs, Fandral believes he has the strength and power necessary to lead the Kal'dorei. He will do what is necessary.​

Masteries

Ancient Protector's of Azeroth: Called by the Night Elves, the ancients, gargantuan tree people, have arisen in answer. They have witnessed countless events unfold in Azeroth, such as the first invasion of the Burning Legion and Deathwing's betrayal. Thus, their wisdom is invaluable to the Night Elves. Upon research, new units and a new hero will become available.

Chosen of Elune: Elune is venerated by the Night Elves above all else. In times of peace or strife, Elune's name is said with blessing. Now during perhaps their most dire time of need, Elune has answered their call. New units and a passive ability for all units will be available.

Arcanica Renewal: Banished from the Night Elven society, the remaining Night Elf mages known as the Shen'dralar stowed themselves away within Grim Batol. Yet, these times of extreme peril have caused the Night Elves to reconsider their anger. New units and a new hero will become available.

****More to come!!!

 

[Silverfish423]

So today I did a bit of race testing, and I noticed that Ironforge has a lot wrong with it...many bugs, errors, etc. So today and tomorrow I will heavily revamp and fix them so that the Ironforge Dwarves work properly! Expect many updates in the next map upload

 

[xie323]

Will this include AI support and team control?

 

[Sky Green]

If your map becomes popular, you should also start a thread on diplomunion...

 

[Silverfish423]

@xie323: What exactly do you mean? Are you asking if there will be AI controlled units and if players can control other players' units?

@Sky Green: Is that another modding site??

 

[Sky Green]

It's not only a modding site, but also a community, much larger than the hive, a lot of maps like daow and azzy wars have their sub-forums there.

 

[xie323]

@xie323: What exactly do you mean? Are you asking if there will be AI controlled units and if players can control other players' units?

@Sky Green: Is that another modding site??

Yes something like that.

 

[Silverfish423]

@Sky Green: Ooh, very cool! I will have to check it out once SoA is done!

@xie323: im not sure about team control, but i would like to implement AI for the races that are not chosen by players at the beginning of the game. The reason for that is because upon game initialization, atleast 50% of the races will not be played by people, so I'd like that 50% to still be doing stuff so that the people can interact. You can read a short description of this system in the "brain-storming" section of the main thread!

EDIT: Right now I am looking for a model to represent Gelbin Mekkatorque, the leader of the Gnomes. Any ideas anyone? (preferably one that is low filesize)

 

[Silverfish423]

Hey everyone, I am going to upload some pictures as a sort of "sneak peak" at the updates coming up in the next map upload...so stay tuned!

EDIT: Pictures!! These are some things I did 2 days ago including Burning Steppes, but it looked ugly cause I had many buildings there that will go in other places. Hoping to have Elwynn Forest, Duskwood, and Westfall done by Friday or Saturday!

 

[MogulKahn]

Looking forward for this ! Great idea ! But some things are confusing here, like Illidan alive, Varimathras etc

 

[Silverfish423]

@MogulKahn: Aw yes, I see your confusion. This map is to take place after the events of 'The Frozen Throne' campaign..in which case heroes such as Illidan and Varimathras are still alive! And thank you for your interest

 

[Silverfish423]

Hey guys, coming to let everyone know that SoA will be going on a slight pause for roughly a month. I am going to enter the Mini-Mapping Contest: The Drums in the Dungeon! I am entering so I can perhaps draw more attention to SoA since it is connected to me =)
As such, I will not be able to devote all of my time to SoA for that duration. However, I will still work on it. Also, at the end of the month duration I will have started school, which will demand much of my time. So after that do not expect many updates. But don't worry, when I have free time, I will work on SoA =)

Any questions? Ask away!


EDIT: It is not 100% confirmed that I will participate in the mini-mapping contest. I will start making a map and see how I feel about it after a few days. I will let you guys know if I continue to pursue it when the time comes

EDIT2: Nevermind guys, I decided to not enter the contest. So SoA will be under heavy construction for atleast anothre month =)

EDIT3: Hey everyone. So school has been in session for a few weeks now, so SoA will be put on hold until this session of school is over (then I will be able to work on it during winter break). Until then, I will probably only periodically update the map, but probably nothing major. I will let you guys know if major updates occur!

 

[Deathwing_XXX]

Is this project in progress or dead??

 

[Silverfish423]

I would say that it is on pause. It isn't dead, cause I'm not done working on it, but I am not working on it at the moment because I am in school and can't devote a significant amount of time to the map. But come winter break I will be able to do so

 

[Deathwing_XXX]

I would say that it is on pause. It isn't dead, cause I'm not done working on it, but I am not working on it at the moment because I am in school and can't devote a significant amount of time to the map. But come winter break I will be able to do so

Oh, well good luck in making this map.

 

[Silverfish423]

Thank you Deathwing_XXX! I Greatly appreciate it Map construction should resume in less than a month, so I hope you all are ready for when this comes back to take it's rightful spot as the best Map Development Project on TheHive =)

 

[Linkin]

Hello Silverfish423, I got two big question for you.

Unless I've misunderstood something this is meant to be a online map, and from what I see not Everything is done yet, yet the file size is almost at the breaking Point.
It's not only that but the bigger the map is, the longer it takes to download it. and that will lead to people getting impatient and leaving because it takes way to long. Did you already know of this or something, this is most likely the maps biggest problem as I can see.

The second problem I see is that how will you make it fair? Let's say only one player ends up picking a race on Kalimdor, won't he has way to easy to gain a massive income without even fighting, now how do you intend to combat that problem?

 

[Aztec_devil2000]

Hello Silverfish423, I got two big question for you.

Unless I've misunderstood something this is meant to be a online map, and from what I see not Everything is done yet, yet the file size is almost at the breaking Point.
It's not only that but the bigger the map is, the longer it takes to download it. and that will lead to people getting impatient and leaving because it takes way to long. Did you already know of this or something, this is most likely the maps biggest problem as I can see.

The second problem I see is that how will you make it fair? Let's say only one player ends up picking a race on Kalimdor, won't he has way to easy to gain a massive income without even fighting, now how do you intend to combat that problem?

filesize really does not matter, depending on how good the hostbot is it will only take acouple of seconds to download no matter what the size. And who said that the game will be autohosted? Autohosted games people hate, but people who host the game themselves and actually talk to the people who join then you are fine.

 

[Linkin]

filesize really does not matter, depending on how good the hostbot is it will only take acouple of seconds to download no matter what the size. And who said that the game will be autohosted? Autohosted games people hate, but people who host the game themselves and actually talk to the people who join then you are fine.

Oh really?
That's why the only chance to get a full game without using garena is M-bot?, well unless you play Dota. And M-bot is 100mb/s = 80 seconds for each download.
And not everyone has even a 100mb/s internet. So yeah, size does matter.

 

[Sky Green]

Oh really?
That's why the only chance to get a full game without using garena is M-bot?, well unless you play Dota. And M-bot is 100mb/s = 80 seconds for each download.
And not everyone has even a 100mb/s internet. So yeah, size does matter.

That's what she said.

On a serious note, the most important thing is that it doesn't cross 8mb. Since B.net only supports maps up to 8megabytes. By the way, if you didn't you can compress the map. I also propose that if you need, use less custom models and just tint originals. Use Jass instead of GUI if you know how, Jass takes less bytes that GUI if I recall. But as I already said, the most important thing is to use less custom models, a map's quality also depends on how good you use the models you already have.

 

[Linkin]

That's what she said.

On a serious note, the most important thing is that it doesn't cross 8mb. Since B.net only supports maps up to 8megabytes. By the way, if you didn't you can compress the map. I also propose that if you need, use less custom models and just tint originals. Use Jass instead of GUI if you know how, Jass takes less bytes that GUI if I recall. But as I already said, the most important thing is to use less custom models, a map's quality also depends on how good you use the models you already have.

This is pretty much the message, sure there are a lot of good models out there but only use the ones you actually need etc. sure a new footman would look good but would it really be needed.

And if it is really needed try to go below 120kb, anything over that is normally not worth it. With a few exceptions.

 

[Aztec_devil2000]

My hostbots are on a 1gigabyte connection server, people don't need to worry about downloading... I haven't been bothered to connect the bots to Garena yet, but a good and fun map does not need this conversation because it doesn't matter how big it is, people can download it from epicwar. It also depends on how many versions there are, if people keep downloading a new version then probably your right...

 

[Silverfish423]

Hello Silverfish423, I got two big question for you.

Unless I've misunderstood something this is meant to be a online map, and from what I see not Everything is done yet, yet the file size is almost at the breaking Point.
It's not only that but the bigger the map is, the longer it takes to download it. and that will lead to people getting impatient and leaving because it takes way to long. Did you already know of this or something, this is most likely the maps biggest problem as I can see.

The second problem I see is that how will you make it fair? Let's say only one player ends up picking a race on Kalimdor, won't he has way to easy to gain a massive income without even fighting, now how do you intend to combat that problem?

Yes, I see what you mean in regards to the filesize being at a breaking point. As I work on the map, I put what I want in the map, but then when the filesize gets too large, I go back and see what actually needs to stay and what can go away. So the filesize fluctuates essentially, and it will get smaller. In addition, I have not compressed/optimized the map, which will reduce filesize by roughly 50%
The fairness is most definitely another issue. When the skeleton of the map is complete, I plan on using some programs to run hundreds of battles and give me statistics on what the movement speeds, attack rates, etc., should be changed to in order to maintain the feel of the unit but make battles fair. This is where strategy and such will come into play.

_____________________

That's what she said.

On a serious note, the most important thing is that it doesn't cross 8mb. Since B.net only supports maps up to 8megabytes. By the way, if you didn't you can compress the map. I also propose that if you need, use less custom models and just tint originals. Use Jass instead of GUI if you know how, Jass takes less bytes that GUI if I recall. But as I already said, the most important thing is to use less custom models, a map's quality also depends on how good you use the models you already have.

I am currently using JassNewGen, however, I have made most of the triggers myself. I plan on handing the map over to someone who knows jass well and can tune up the triggers. In addition, I have yet to optimize and compress the map, so filesize will surely be below 8mb (considering it is at 7mb)

_____________________

This is pretty much the message, sure there are a lot of good models out there but only use the ones you actually need etc. sure a new footman would look good but would it really be needed.

And if it is really needed try to go below 120kb, anything over that is normally not worth it. With a few exceptions.

Agreed! Which is why most custom models are applied to heroes. There tends to be not many copies of the same hero model, and they will dissapear permanently every once in awhile. After that is decided, special stuff such as custom footmen models will only be done if everything else is able to be kept relatively even.

_____________________

My hostbots are on a 1gigabyte connection server, people don't need to worry about downloading... I haven't been bothered to connect the bots to Garena yet, but a good and fun map does not need this conversation because it doesn't matter how big it is, people can download it from epicwar. It also depends on how many versions there are, if people keep downloading a new version then probably your right...

This is also a good point. Once the map is released to thehiveworkshop for download, I will transfer the map to other websites to be downloadable. But I want thehiveworkshop to be the first place that it is able to be uploaded from.

 

[Linkin]

In addition, I have not compressed/optimized the map, which will reduce filesize by roughly 50%

Another question, what kind of optimizer do you use to get 50% off the map?
The one I use only takes roughly 25-15% with a full optiomiztion.

 

[Aztec_devil2000]

I am currently using JassNewGen, however, I have made most of the triggers myself. I plan on handing the map over to someone who knows jass well and can tune up the triggers. In addition, I have yet to optimize and compress the map, so filesize will surely be below 8mb (considering it is at 7mb)

I know someone who can do jass for your map, he is a solid profeshonal as he has told me, he does nothing but jass so he could be just the guy for you. His name is halornek his currently in my clan @uswest.... Also 50% optimizer would be nice, i could do that with my herowars map which is currently being hosted by Clan ENT and there are no other downloads but Clan ENT's hostbot so i'm stuck there.

 

[Silverfish423]

Another question, what kind of optimizer do you use to get 50% off the map?
The one I use only takes roughly 25-15% with a full optiomiztion.

I'm estimating 50% after I remove the custom models and skins (essentially, anything complex which in the end is not needed) which are not required along with the compression and optimization. Although I have heard from some people that certain optimizers have been able to get higher percentages, but I have a feeling that varies between maps.
________________

I know someone who can do jass for your map, he is a solid profeshonal as he has told me, he does nothing but jass so he could be just the guy for you. His name is halornek his currently in my clan @uswest.... Also 50% optimizer would be nice, i could do that with my herowars map which is currently being hosted by Clan ENT and there are no other downloads but Clan ENT's hostbot so i'm stuck there.

Oh really? That'd be great! Does he have an account here?

 

[Aztec_devil2000]

I guess so, halornek would be his username. Unless i am wrong and i've spelt his name wrong.

 

[Silverfish423]

I sent him a message but he has not been on that account for a year or so. Let him know next time you see him!

 

[Aztec_devil2000]

Ok, just added the motd for my clan channel to tell him to check his hiveworkshop!

 

[Silverfish423]

Sweet, thanks a lot man =)

 

[Silverfish423]

Heavy construction of WC3 is to commence today =) I appreciate all of your patience with this map! I will return in a day or so with updates.

 

[Silverfish423]

I wanted to let everyone know that I am in the process of learning Jass which I will use to create more efficient income systems and other triggers. During this time period, the world terrain will be being created. I plan on having both ready around the same time.

If all goes as planned, beta testing should commence shortly after this, approximately the middle of January. I will just be starting school at this point, which means I will have little time for heavy conceptualization and designing. However, I will be able to make changes to the map in response to problems and issues that you all will undoubtedly discover as you partake in the beta testing process.

Thanks everyone =)

 

[Deathwing_XXX]

Hey,Silverfish!!!
How about use the models in this site its full of WoW Models converted to Warcraft III format(I dont know if it works but the index said so) Good Luck in your Project
LINK:
http://wcunderground.freeforums.org/index.php

 

[Sky Green]

There's a reason why those models aren't used to much deathwing xxx. Sure they are converted to wc3 format but they still take more space than other models, and if you have 50 models, well, it increases the filesize a lot. And for b.net the max is 8mb (I don't know why).

 

[Linkin]

A lot of those models don't look that good in game, seen many of them and they don't really fit the art style. Unless you make every unit use those models.

 

[Deathwing_XXX]

There's a reason why those models aren't used to much deathwing xxx. Sure they are converted to wc3 format but they still take more space than other models, and if you have 50 models, well, it increases the filesize a lot. And for b.net the max is 8mb (I don't know why).

OH,sorry I could not test the models because my WE has been deleted.

 

[Amargaard]

I have played your test map, and I know it's very much in beta version and it's not finished at all, but the terraining was the first thing to catch my eye. Wow, it doesn't look like you're much of a big terrainer at all. I admire you for running this project and all, but honestly your terrain could use a lot of improvement.
I don't know if you want to run this project completely by yourself, but if you are willing to take in team members to help you, I'd love to help you in this
I think I'm pretty much qualified for the job of a terrainer, if you are aiming for a terrain like Azeroth Wars or DaoW etc
In case you need it, I can also provide icon artwork

The second problem I see is that how will you make it fair? Let's say only one player ends up picking a race on Kalimdor, won't he has way to easy to gain a massive income without even fighting, now how do you intend to combat that problem?

The fairness is most definitely another issue. When the skeleton of the map is complete, I plan on using some programs to run hundreds of battles and give me statistics on what the movement speeds, attack rates, etc., should be changed to in order to maintain the feel of the unit but make battles fair. This is where strategy and such will come into play.

I think you misunderstood his question
What he meant to say is that, in a map like this, when you're able to choose one of several races, with a 12 player restriction, there will always be several races that are not chosen by any player. What about those races? They will easily be defeated by the real players.
Like he said, in case all players choose some races on EK, Outland and Northrend, and one player only choose a race on Kalimdor - let's take the night elves as an example. Wouldn't it be horribly unfair that this one player easily can take completely control over the Orcs and other factions on Kalimdor, while all the other players, on the other continents, will have to fight hard against other real-life players to achieve glory. And then in late game, when the victorious players from different continents meet, the night elven player from Kalimdor have gotten tons of income without trouble at all. In a game like yours, where many races will remain unchosen each game, how can you possibly make it fair to all the other races?

 

[Silverfish423]

I have played your test map, and I know it's very much in beta version and it's not finished at all, but the terraining was the first thing to catch my eye. Wow, it doesn't look like you're much of a big terrainer at all. I admire you for running this project and all, but honestly your terrain could use a lot of improvement.
I don't know if you want to run this project completely by yourself, but if you are willing to take in team members to help you, I'd love to help you in this
I think I'm pretty much qualified for the job of a terrainer, if you are aiming for a terrain like Azeroth Wars or DaoW etc
In case you need it, I can also provide icon artwork


I think you misunderstood his question
What he meant to say is that, in a map like this, when you're able to choose one of several races, with a 12 player restriction, there will always be several races that are not chosen by any player. What about those races? They will easily be defeated by the real players.
Like he said, in case all players choose some races on EK, Outland and Northrend, and one player only choose a race on Kalimdor - let's take the night elves as an example. Wouldn't it be horribly unfair that this one player easily can take completely control over the Orcs and other factions on Kalimdor, while all the other players, on the other continents, will have to fight hard against other real-life players to achieve glory. And then in late game, when the victorious players from different continents meet, the night elven player from Kalimdor have gotten tons of income without trouble at all. In a game like yours, where many races will remain unchosen each game, how can you possibly make it fair to all the other races?

Yes I definitely agree, I do not pretend to be a terrainer and at this point I am simply laying down the basic layout for gameplay purposes. I plan on the terrain aesthetics to be the last thing added because they should not affect gameplay too drastically. However, if you could showcase me some of your work, I would appreciate that! I know Aztec_Devil wanted to work on the terrain as well, so perhaps you 2 can work together.

Oh yes, I see what you mean. Fortunately, I have been on both ends of that sort of issue in games such as Azeroth Wars and DAoW. First off, the map is essentially divided into 7 regions: Northrend, Outland, Oceans, North Kalimdor, South Kalimdor, North Eastern Kingdoms, and South Eastern Kingdoms. Each region is assigned 2 players (except the Oceans and Northrend which is assigned 1) for a total of 12 players. The leftover races (12+) will be controlled by computers. When it is determined which races are not chosen by players, they will be given additional units and defenses and they will engage in offensive and defensive tactics. This will force every player to be near another and remove the unfair advantage of having easily conquerable bases owned by passive computers.

Hey,Silverfish!!!
How about use the models in this site its full of WoW Models converted to Warcraft III format(I dont know if it works but the index said so) Good Luck in your Project
LINK:
http://wcunderground.freeforums.org/index.php

Hello Deathwing! I appreciate the website link for the WoW models, however, WoW models tend to be too high of filesize which is a big issue for this type of map. In addition, the art style of WoW models doesn't match that of WC3 models.

 

[Silverfish423]

Gurubashi Empire has been under heavy construction...it is playable as player Green. Let me know what you guys think! Also, let me know if the income trigger is not working for you (you should receive 25g in the first 60 seconds)

 

[Metalbear]

DUUUUD, protect the map! Not cause some retard will steal it, its almost reaching 8mb!
I got disappointed for discovering that this map was only a show up of how things are made so far. As the red player, I had control only over some 6-9 trollzorz in northrend, and 1 frog ... -.-

 

[ImperialShadow]

Metalbear,this map still in construction.

 

[Nightblade]

This is back it seems, hope it doesnt die again.

 

[Silverfish423]

DUUUUD, protect the map! Not cause some retard will steal it, its almost reaching 8mb!
I got disappointed for discovering that this map was only a show up of how things are made so far. As the red player, I had control only over some 6-9 trollzorz in northrend, and 1 frog ... -.-

Thanks for your concern Metalbear, but I don't think the 8mb limit will be an issue at this point because the map is not ready for multiplayer (which most of the time implies B-Net) testing. Also, red is not ready. However, if you want to test a race, play as green =)

This is back it seems, hope it doesnt die again.

You shall see!