Israel

[I)eadnerzhul]

First and foremost: my apologies about my totally off-topic post in the "War on Terror" thread. As someone suggested, I am starting a new thread dedicated to the current situation in Israel.

Before I begin, please note that I don't mean to spark any flame wars or such, and everyone's views are to be respected and considered equally and evenly. I only ask you don't be anti-semetic (for I will take offense, considering my religion). Thank you.

Well. When I heard that Israel was going to send Hamas running with its tail between its sissy legs, I was joyful! Joyful indeed! It's about time the Israeli government toughened up and did something about Terrorism. As you may know, the anti-semetic U.N. (which is run by Indians and Arabs, go figure) wanted Israel to make peace with the terrorists. They did. They gave the terrorists the whole west bank and Gaza in exchange for "peace". As you know, the terrorists continued to kill without mercy.

I don't know about you, but I think Israel has every right. I mean seriously... Hamas breaks the treaty and starts to kill innocents! Should Israel do nothing? That's ridiculous! So, Israel decided to launch air strikes on Gaza. They gave a warning to all civilians to evacuate early on, in order to minimize casualties.

One may say that Israel is "slaughtering innocents" (which, some believe, is true), but truely, they are not. Hamas members use their families as human shields. What choice does Israel have? The violence must end. And if it requires violence to end violence, I say, so be it! Unless you have a way to convince the brainwashed terrorists to come to a "peaceful solution" (which the U.N. [silly them!] believed they did), then I say give them hell.

I do pray, however, that there are as least amount of innocents dieing, and that the Israeli troops are saved (divinely or otherwise) from the peril they march to. Amen.

[Discuss]

 

[thegreatsmite]

I only ask you don't be anti-semetic (for I will take offense, considering my religion). Thank you.
[Discuss]

you and me both

 

[Elenai]

As I stated numerous times in the War of Terror thread.

Both sides are being barbaric. But Israel is the legitimate government of that strip of land and has full rights to stop rocket fire from Gaza. And the fact that civilians are getting hurt is what makes this war, a terrible one. But unfortunately, war is rife with non-combatant death, this war is no different.

In my honest opinion, Israel is getting a bad reputation because the story of the Gazans is so compelling, and we ourselves are trying to get on the good side of the Muslim world. When really it isn't one sided "Israel is evil, killing civilians on purpose and laughing about it." Hamas has also committed war crimes against humanity, and what makes it worse, is that people are being used as shields.

Peace for Israel, and a FULL peace treaty, that BOTH sides abide by, that is the only real possibility for peace in the region.

The only other choice is that Israel be destroyed (which won't happen, many Israeli supporting Westerners and Zionists would eat their own arms before letting that happen)

Or Gaza is driven into the sea. (which probably wont happen because other Westerners are too afraid of OPEC raising the price of Oil, due to this conflict)

A full peace treaty with terms and consequences must be met.

-Peace for Israel, and peace for Gaza and the West Bank.

-If you attack us, we'll drive you into the sea, and have full rights to do so.

-If we attack you, same concept.

-Recognition for Gaza/West Bank as sovereign nations. Recognition for Israel as a sovereign nation.

 

[thegreatsmite]

im gona say this, if Mexico launched 5 rockets a day into New Yark City, or Chicago, would the US sit around and do nothing? no we would react. same principle here, would you be okay with a neigboring country bombarding you. destroying your house, killing your friends and family, no. every single nation on Earth would do what israel is doing, you would even do that, if someone egged your house, or burned it down, and you knew who it was, wouldn't you do somthing, even if it was reporting them to the authorities and getting them convicted?
israel was at least nice enough to tell the people to get out. just hammas tried to descreatly use meat sheilds so they would get pitty from the UN.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Hamas would never agree to a peace treaty. If Hamas broke the treaty the first time, what makes you think it won't the second time?

Gaza and the West Bank both belong to Israel. They wanted to get on the good side of the U.N. and gave it to the terrorists as part of the "treaty". Seeing as the treaty has been broken by Hamas FIRST, Israel has full right to kick Hamas out of Gaza/West Bank, as well as use lethal force.

 

[Hakeem]

Before I begin, please note that I don't mean to spark any flame wars or such, and everyone's views are to be respected and considered equally and evenly.

I hate Jews.

I only ask you don't be anti-semetic (for I will take offense, considering my religion). Thank you.

Oh, then I just hate black people.

the anti-semetic U.N.

I don't think you should make generalizations about large groups of people.

They gave a warning to all civilians to evacuate early on, in order to minimize casualties.

Duuude...

One may say that Israel is "slaughtering innocents" (which, some believe, is true), but truely, they are not.

Except the ones that failed to move in your previous quote?

Hamas members use their families as human shields. What choice does Israel have?

Defense != offense. If they were using human ammo, that would be another story. When it gets to the point where you are required to use near-useless meat bags as shields, you are definitely not on the offense, and hence, there is no reason to attack you. It is more economical to make a person a warrior than to use them as useless shields.

This is also the fault of Israel for making a civilian location into a battlefield. You know, the aforementioned "we're going to bomb you, move" thing you yourself said?

The violence must end. And if it requires violence to end violence, I say, so be it! Unless you have a way to convince the brainwashed terrorists to come to a "peaceful solution" (which the U.N. [silly them!] believed they did), then I say give them hell.

Or cut off their resources so they can no longer fight. If both sides wont do that, we can cut them both off. Screw people that refuse to not kill.

you and me both

You make it too obvious. People can troll the hell out of you if you make it that obvious.

im gona say this, if Mexico launched 5 rockets a day into New Yark City, or Chicago, would the US sit around and do nothing?

We would wonder how they got that many rockets in the first place, and stop the supply. What would you rather do in a gunfight, kill the other guys so he can't shoot you, or take away his bullets so he can't shoot you?

israel was at least nice enough to tell the people to get out.

How nice of them. Let's take your scenario. Get out of New York. Yeah, all of you.

just hammas tried to descreatly use meat sheilds so they would get pitty from the UN.

It is more useful to make people warriors than to use them as useless meat shields. If you're using meat shields, you have my deepest sympathies. Either for being mentally retarded so as to use useless meat shields, or to be that far in desperation.

Hamas would never agree to a peace treaty. If Hamas broke the treaty the first time, what makes you think it won't the second time?

Because this time they realize their resources are running out, and either they, or neither of them is going to win. Is that the case? Wars don't end in decimation, they end in treaty.

Israel has full right to kick Hamas out of Gaza/West Bank, as well as use lethal force.

No. They do not. Defense is the only thing a good person does.

---

I better lay off the sarcasm for awhile.

 

[Mechanical Man]

One may say that Israel is "slaughtering innocents" (which, some believe, is true), but truely, they are not. Hamas members use their families as human shields. What choice does Israel have? The violence must end. And if it requires violence to end violence, I say, so be it! Unless you have a way to convince the brainwashed terrorists to come to a "peaceful solution" (which the U.N. [silly them!] believed they did), then I say give them hell.

One good example of killing innocents was the school bomning. Israel said because there were terrorists inside. Let's presume that they were telling the truth (although I don't believe so). When terrorists/criminals take a school in an American town. What that does the police do? Do they call the army for an airstrike to demolish the school/or hostage building, killing everybody inside?

im gona say this, if Mexico launched 5 rockets a day into New Yark City, or Chicago, would the US sit around and do nothing? no we would react. same principle here, would you be okay with a neigboring country bombarding you. destroying your house, killing your friends and family, no. every single nation on Earth would do what israel is doing, you would even do that, if someone egged your house, or burned it down, and you knew who it was, wouldn't you do somthing, even if it was reporting them to the authorities and getting them convicted?
israel was at least nice enough to tell the people to get out. just hammas tried to descreatly use meat sheilds so they would get pitty from the UN.

Mexico is an internationally recognized country, Palestine is evidently not. In case of Mexico, the UN would run there very fast at the first fired rocket. You'd better compare if the rocket would be fired from some Los Angeles latino slum.

And Israeli forces on one airstrike caused more deaths than all qassam rocket thrown to Israel. And since Israel has technological advanced military equipment (as I already said), they could use different weaponry for this type of war, not cluster bombs and depleted uranium or whatever shit they have in. This kind of weapons are used more if there is larger army or extensive industrial complexes etc, but now they are fighting against a force without any anti air defence, no anti-tank weaponry, except for few crappy rpgs bought on black market, hell even AK-47 are actually not realy frequent in their arsenal.

 

[Firelord213]

Everytime someone says something Against the actions that has been made by Israel you become Anti-Semitic, Why?
If you become an Anti-Semite because you're against Israel and it's actions then I'm more than proud to be an Anti-Semite.

I mean

As you may know, the anti-semetic U.N. (which is run by Indians and Arabs, go figure) wanted Israel to make peace with the terrorists.

Why are they Anti-Semitic, because they're trying to end an conflict?
Wasn't it the UN that split Palestine to 2 parts? (Israeli and Arab)
And why would UN be mainly ruled by Arabs and Indians?
So anything that is trying to end conflicts including Zionists simply becomes Anti-Semitic and are ruled by Arabs and Indians.

May I ask, Why the Indians, They're Hindus and have no part in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.

O and

They are anti-israel, Are these jews being Anti-Semitic?

What they say sounds interesting, Maybe I should read more about Judaism (We're having it in school) and maybe learn about these Anti-israel jews cause.

 

[Elenai]

The point remains that Israel is still a legitimate, and recognized government, retaliating against rocket fire. Take out all the media drama, all the religious stuff, all the "Israel killing this, Hamas killing that, Israel isn't blah blah blah, Israel is blah blah blah, Hamas is likewise"

And you are left with a simple thing:

Recognized, Legitimate government assaulting a threat upon their borders in a pre-emptive strike at the worst, and a defensive measure at best, a threat which is has a record of past violence, and is lurking at their doorstep.

 

[Firelord213]

CNN says Israel ended the Ceasefire,

YouTube - CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First

---

YouTube - United Nations: Israel Broke Ceasefire NOT Hamas

---

Irish Times UN aid agency suspends work in Gaza Strip - The Irish Times - Thu, Jan 08, 2009
Palestinians faced worsening conditions in the Gaza Strip today after a UN aid agency halted work, saying its staff were at risk from Israeli forces fighting Hamas militants, after two drivers were killed.

Israel also came under sharp Red Cross criticism that it was delaying access to casualties. The reported Palestinian death toll in the 13-day-old conflict topped 700.

"UNRWA decided to suspend all its operations in the Gaza Strip because of the increasing hostile actions against its premises and personnel," Adnan Abu Hasna, a Gaza-based spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).

He did not say how long the suspension by the agency, which provides food and other aid to some 750,000 Gazans, would last.

According to Swedish Media, UN had a deal with Israel that they should have their Ambulances and trucks etc marked with flags (And they did have flags) and still they got shot.

O and,
At least 11 Israelis have been killed, eight of them soldiers, including four hit by "friendly" fire.

And if you're interested in reading what the Swedish media said,
Then go here:
FN stoppar hjälpen till Gaza | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
And use Google Translator.

--

The Both sides use meat shields thingy you said is true according to Amnesty
Gaza civilians endangered by the military tactics of both sides | Amnesty International

 

[LordDz]

So what you're saying is that the war is okay?

 

[qassamzed]

ISRAEL
- bombard UN shelter for refugee (israel say there are fighter )>>> the fact is there are no fighter
- israel shoot UN aid Convoy (killing 1 driver)
- israel shoot paramedics and prevent them to help victim (you can see it on TV)
- total victim at least 700 gazans (200 children)

HAMAS
- bombard israel >>> victim 3 israeli
- israeli soldier death 8 (4 friendly fire)


>>>>>>victim 700 gazans(most of them innocent people) against 11 israeli

Still don't know who is the bad guy???

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Recent Israeli casualties are low, yes. But, if you remember the time when terrorists were attacking innocent Israelis, you'd see reason to attack back. Israel is very generous when it comes to war. It held its patience for a long time. This was the last straw, obviously, and they have taken up arms in order to ensure no more terrorism occurs. And don't think Israel is against Palestinians. Israel is providing aid to Palestinians who were affected by the Gaza situation.

At the Jews against Israel being a country... well, they have their opinions. But they support the terrorists, so I despise them.

To those of you who are against Jews... you are ignorant. You have no reason to hate us. Honestly. There is no sort of justification for it. Hitler tried to justify it by saying we were taking over Germany. Are you seriously going to start ranting on about how we're taking over America or something like that? Honestly... no basis for such an argument.

And Hakeem, the terrorists are supplied by Russia. Russia manufactures and sells weapons and supplies to the terrorists because it is an Anti-Semi country that, like you, hates Jews for no reason.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Israel is very generous when it comes to war.

QFT. They are always ready for war, they will never decline your offer to make war. And when it comes the time, they will throw you every possible thing. From cluster bombs to white phosphor, everything home delivered. Their generosity is limitless.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

They are always ready for war, they will never decline your offer to make war.

And I suppose you know, considering you're high position in the Israeli government, huh?

And when it comes the time, they will throw you every possible thing. From cluster bombs to white phosphor, everything home delivered. Their generosity is limitless.

And I suppose you know, considering you're the general of the Israeli army, huh?

The fact that anyone, out of their ignorance, could think that Israel "doesn't have justification" to retaliate against terrorism is ridiculous. Countless men, women, children, Jewish scholars, all were slain out of a meaningless hatred instilled into Arabic children at a young age. Killing for no reason is inhumane! What more justification could you possibly need?!

 

[Elenai]

For goodness sakes...

Palestinians seem to be full of idiots, in my honest opinion.

Get out of the way for goodness sakes! Don't sit there in a place you know has about a 3 out of 4's chance of getting bombed!

RUN FOR GOD'S SAKE RUN! and yet...they don't...

Stupid half witted fools...Does it take a genius to duck when you hear gun fire?!

I'm getting sick and tired of this retarded "Israel's the bad guy, Hamas is the bad guy" "We are fighting for peace and love and our right as Muslims to live in peace with rockets and stuffz LOLOLOLLOOLZODIFNAS: DOIFhS:Z" or "We are Israel, we are Justified! zlasdg;ao nlozlololoas n;do;afxn;dfovnhZXL: dfm"!

When it comes right down to it, all the human atrocity, and all the blood shed is due to one simple fact...The people in this fight are being down right bloody stupid!

If you don't want little Muhammad to die, or little Jacob, then DON'T LEAVE HIM IN A FRICKEN HOUSE THAT IS GOING TO GET BOMBED! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF "Israel shouldn't bomb them in the first place" POINT IS! ITS GONNA FRICKEN HAPPEN! AND YOU CAN"T STOP A BOMB WITH YOUR FRICKEN FACE!...without it exploding...

You have to MOVE or DIE, no if's and's or but's. You get out of the freaking freaketty freak way, and you take your kids with you! You don't have to prove your faith by letting yourself get bombed, you don't have to die with your husband in your house! You put yourself on your gosh darned alertest state, and you keep your kids out of harms way that's what!

And if Palestine was SMART they would round up all of Hamas and put them in one big pile and say "HERE ISRAEL! HERE IS ALL OF HAMAS! YOU GOTTEM! ALL FREE AND CLEAR! NOW LEAVE US ALONE KAY?"

But no...

Palestine would prefer to let themselves die without a good reason so they can hide a Hamas soldier in a crown of oh..I donno...30 civilians...

If Hamas is as good and kind and perfect as everyone seems to think they are, they should listen to a Palestinian outcry, and give themselves up, and stop drawing fire upon civilians!

Just my two bloody cents over this retarded issue.

And yes I've had a rather crappy day, so blah blah blah blah.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Elenai for the win.

 

[Hakeem]

And Hakeem, the terrorists are supplied by Russia. Russia manufactures and sells weapons and supplies to the terrorists because it is an Anti-Semi country that, like you, hates Jews for no reason.

Well, barring the possibility that you are being monumentally sarcastic and I'm not detecting it, I'll explain.

You see, I only said

I hate Jews.

To demonstrate an opinion someone might have. An opinion you say

everyone's views are to be respected and considered equally and evenly.

Except when that opinion

I only ask you don't be anti-semetic

If you're going to respect opinions, you have to respect the opinions of antisemitic people, or racist people, or anything, as much as you disagree with them.

But you know, I don't see how being antisemitic would fit into this thread about Israel at all anyway.

Either way, we need to make Russia stop.

Get out of the way for goodness sakes! Don't sit there in a place you know has about a 3 out of 4's chance of getting bombed!

RUN FOR GOD'S SAKE RUN! and yet...they don't...
[...]
If you don't want little Muhammad to die, or little Jacob, then DON'T LEAVE HIM IN A FRICKEN HOUSE THAT IS GOING TO GET BOMBED! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF "Israel shouldn't bomb them in the first place" POINT IS! ITS GONNA FRICKEN HAPPEN! AND YOU CAN"T STOP A BOMB WITH YOUR FRICKEN FACE!...without it exploding...

You have to MOVE or DIE, no if's and's or but's. You get out of the freaking freaketty freak way, and you take your kids with you!

This is where I live. What would you do if someone said they were going to bomb your house tomorrow? "Oh well, that's life!"

I'd bet not. This is where you live, why the hell should anyone tell you you can't live there?

If Hamas is as good and kind and perfect as everyone seems to think they are, they should listen to a Palestinian outcry, and give themselves up, and stop drawing fire upon civilians!

Seems to me the term "war" is being used. Give up to people that wont spare you? Why not just shoot yourself?

 

[Elenai]

If I were told my house was going to be bombed...I'd be out the door in a rather fast hurry with as much stuff as I could carry.

As for the "Hamas, give yourselves up thing"

What I mean essentially, is that the Palestinians need to tell Hamas to drag the war away from them, not right in the center of highly populated areas.

 

[Hakeem]

And then Israel would then believe those areas no longer harbor threats?

 

[Royy]

If I were told my house was going to be bombed...I'd be out the door in a rather fast hurry with as much stuff as I could carry.

Don't the Israelis have a blockade around the Gaza strip? And the Hamas never really did anything to help the civilians such as shelters. Where would you run to even? Stay on the streets with enemy soldiers runnin' about?

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Guys, you don't get it. These people have been cornered, and tortured by Israel. What would you do if you're fucking cornered, over powered, oppressed. Then they cut off power, they cut off supply routes, they cut off most of its life lines despite international efforts.

They don't have a CHOICE, it's the only fucking thing they CAN do. Then when they try to defend themselves, if they so much as throw one rock Israel goes berserk and launches a full scale fucking offensive.

Elenai, you have no clue what the situation is. They have no where to run, you stupid fucking moron.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

If I were told my house was going to be bombed...I'd be out the door in a rather fast hurry with as much stuff as I could carry.

Conversely, if I honestly cared about the well-being of innocents, I wouldn't bomb the shit out of them if they refused my demands for them to evacuate. Drag them out? Perhaps. But I've never seen someone stick a saw through an environmental activist chained to a tree.

 

[LordDz]

If I were told my house was going to be bombed...I'd be out the door in a rather fast hurry with as much stuff as I could carry.

As for the "Hamas, give yourselves up thing"

What I mean essentially, is that the Palestinians need to tell Hamas to drag the war away from them, not right in the center of highly populated areas.

And where would you go? To the places where they don't bomb you? But maybe kill you instead?

 

[Firelord213]

Recent Israeli casualties are low, yes. But, if you remember the time when terrorists were attacking innocent Israelis, you'd see reason to attack back.

What terrorists?
Fatah? or PLO?
PLO and Fatah are not Hamas.

Should Israel not declare on Germany because they killed 6 million jews?
Because ''Remember the time when the ''NAZIS'' were attacking innocent Jews''.

In my opinion, One of the most gay reason to end an Ceasefire,You say:
''Because they used to do bad things to us,
And we have never done anything bad!''

So Hamas doesn't have any reason at all to end the ceasefire (Which Hamas didn't) or what's your point?

So when we believed that it was Hamas who broke the Ceasefire, They had no reason? But now when we found out the truth and know that it was Israel who broke it, They have reasons to break a ceasefire! And they didn't break it because of the Rockets, Because if there was rockets being shot, Then Hamas would be the ones who'd be breaking the ceasefire D:!

What about the Massacres of innocent Arabs to scare away the Arabs from Israel when israel was founded?
What about the 12.000 homes Israel demolished Illegally, Not Ramp platforms, because those 12.000 homes have been demolished since 1967.
And what about the 4.000.000-6.000.000 Palestinian Refugees!

No seriously, If we're going to end ceasefires because one side has done bad things to someone before doesn't mean that it should be broken and do more bad things.

If you don't want little Muhammad to die, or little Jacob, then DON'T LEAVE HIM IN A FRICKEN HOUSE THAT IS GOING TO GET BOMBED! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF "Israel shouldn't bomb them in the first place" POINT IS! ITS GONNA FRICKEN HAPPEN! AND YOU CAN"T STOP A BOMB WITH YOUR FRICKEN FACE!...without it exploding...

When looking at the people who live in Gaza , 40-50% of them live under the poverty line.
I'd guess the first thing they'd like to do is watching their home blow up and live on the streets with what?
Isn't there already enough problems with poverty in Gaza?

Everyone would love being outside and sleeping in the middle of Winter being hungry and thirsty and freeze to death and constantly hearing distant fires and bombs.

 

[Elenai]

How big is Gaza? I think I could probably walk across it in a few days.

Why don't they move through Israel to the West Bank? Ask for asylum outside of Gaza.

If they can let humanitarian aid in through big trucks, they can easily take people OUT on big trucks.

Point is, they are GOING to get bombed, and no idealistic hogwash is going to change that, the best option is to LEAVE or else 'You . WILL . DIE!' that seems like a clear choice.

"Oh tiddley cups of tea and all that, I think I'll stay riiiight here under this bomb and die, because I'm poor and can't afford to move my legs."

 

[Firelord213]

You think Israel would allow Palestinians to ''go through'' Israel, And not just some Palestinians. A LOT of palestinians.

Any ways, There's like 4.000.000-6.000.000 Refugees in the Refugee Camps?
It's barely that they can afford feeding those Refugees.

O and if you didn't know, Gaza is completely locked and has been so for a long time, Nothing goes in or out.
If they could flee, I mean who the heck would want to live in poverty?

And the West Bank is no better, Israel has troops in the West Bank and is very poor as well.
It'd turn West Bank to a more catastrophic place.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

How big is Gaza? I think I could probably walk across it in a few days.

Why don't they move through Israel to the West Bank? Ask for asylum outside of Gaza.

If they can let humanitarian aid in through big trucks, they can easily take people OUT on big trucks.

Point is, they are GOING to get bombed, and no idealistic hogwash is going to change that, the best option is to LEAVE or else 'You . WILL . DIE!' that seems like a clear choice.

"Oh tiddley cups of tea and all that, I think I'll stay riiiight here under this bomb and die, because I'm poor and can't afford to move my legs."

I'm sorry.

You are a selfish, stupid and ignorant person. These people have no refuge, they have no where to run. Israel doesn't hardly lets in AID for 2 hours a day, on gates that they protect. You fucking think they'd let a few thousand refugees just cross the border?

Even if they let them they wouldn't, they have a sense of patriotism and national pride in their country.

If you're country is ever attacked, you're just going to run away and hide like a sissy?

You fucking disgust me.

 

[Elenai]

Live in povery, or die...hmmmn...

Either way its the Palestinian's fault they are being blown to pieces, you get out of the way. It isn't like Israel looks at a children's book store and says "Hey thats a lovely target full of kids, lets make the world mad at us while we blow it up! with kids inside! lolololololololololllololaksdj; sdjf"

 

[qassamzed]

How big is Gaza? I think I could probably walk across it in a few days.

Why don't they move through Israel to the West Bank? Ask for asylum outside of Gaza.

If they can let humanitarian aid in through big trucks, they can easily take people OUT on big trucks.

"

-Lol gaza city is isolate and locked by israel defensive force. (only gazans have other country passport like american can go through )

-take people out with a big truck n go where ???. it only make death package
coz the UN aid truck not guarantee will safe from israel attack

 

[Elenai]

Its a heck of alot safer than sitting in a bomb target.

 

[Firelord213]

Live in povery, or die...hmmmn...

Either way its the Palestinian's fault they are being blown to pieces, you get out of the way. It isn't like Israel looks at a children's book store and says "Hey thats a lovely target full of kids, lets make the world mad at us while we blow it up! with kids inside! lolololololololololllololaksdj; sdjf"

There's no children's book stores in Gaza,
They can't afford stuff like that.
2 dollars per day ain't enough money for clothes,food and home.

And why would it be Palestinian's fault?
It's been confirmed that Israel broke the Ceasefire.

 

[Elenai]

You got the bloody point.

And it is the Palestinian's fault that they stay in their homes full well knowing that they are going to die.

If I don't duck during a drive by shooting, its my own dang stupidity that got me killed.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

There's a video on youtube called "15 seconds in Sedrot", which shows how Israeli children must run quickly before an enemy airstrike comes by. This STILL goes on today. In parks, there are bullet-proof tunnels for children to hide in. Israel is in a state of red alert. I don't know why you think Israel isn't suffering from terrorists...

I have friends who lived in Israel a few years ago, and they remember having to run and hide in said tunnels AND in bombshelters. How would you feel if you had to constantly flee for your life, with only 15 seconds to do so?

Anywho, I'ma try to find that video... hang on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r51PONLdS5s&feature=related

Bang, here it is. And it explains how the media only gives you the info on when Israel retaliates (something I didn't know, considering I don't watch the news too often). I hope you all learn from your ignorance.

Edit: You can also check related videos for more footage of the horror.

May the souls of the fallen ascend in peace. Amen.

 

[Firelord213]

There's a video on youtube called "15 seconds in Sedrot", which shows how Israeli children must run quickly before an enemy airstrike comes by. This STILL goes on today. In parks, there are bullet-proof tunnels for children to hide in. Israel is in a state of red alert. I don't know why you think Israel isn't suffering from terrorists...

I have friends who lived in Israel a few years ago, and they remember having to run and hide in said tunnels AND in bombshelters. How would you feel if you had to constantly flee for your life, with only 15 seconds to do so?

Anywho, I'ma try to find that video... hang on.

YouTube - 15 Seconds

Bang, here it is. And it explains how the media only gives you the info on when Israel retaliates (something I didn't know, considering I don't watch the news too often). I hope you all learn from your ignorance.

Edit: You can also check related videos for more footage of the horror.

May the souls of the fallen ascend in peace. Amen.

You are right, Sorry for being ignorant.

Israel breaking the Cease fire doesn't matter any more, Because you heard how many Israelis died in sedrot and they're more important and have more value than the palestians.
And all those Israeli homes being demolished by Al Qassam rockets!
The 12.000 Homes that have been demolished by IDF with Bulldozers can never be compared with this.

[/sarcasm]

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

In war, there is a little thing called "collateral damage", which occurs when battles are fought in civilian areas. The dead Palestinians were part of the collateral damage. It wasn't done on purpose... the Israelis wanted to help them. The Palestinians, as Elenai explained, chose to sit and die. So sit and die they did! I'm not trying to sound mean or obnoxious (I am sad that civilians died), but they were warned, and they ignored the warning. That, or Hamas was forcing them to die alongside them.

On a side note, if any of you people are learning this from watching the news, I pity you. The media spreads more lies than you can count. There's a little thing called "stretching the truth", which the media does more often than not. Better to have first-hand witnesses tell you about it, like my Israeli friends, for example.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Elenai, do you just totally ignore others or are you really really stubborn?

 

[Firelord213]

I studied the Palestina-israeli conflict for over one month watching documentaries and news and sources like Amnesty,Bt'Selem and the Swedish church.
And I got the highest grade for my project in school about it :3
Too bad I forgot most of it D:

Any ways, as Hamas said, If you kill our Civilians we will kill yours.
I'm against Hamas doing that but when looking at it, They can't aim their rockets to specific targets.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Israel was attacked FIRST. Terrorists killed Israeli civilians FIRST. If you REALLY studied the conflict, you'd know that.

 

[Elenai]

[/sarcasm]

Don't blame Israel for being better equipped and thus, more damage done.

However, as I seem to note...

Any ways, as Hamas said, If you kill our Civilians we will kill yours.
I'm against Hamas doing that but when looking at it, They can't aim their rockets to specific targets.

Israel doesn't do it on purpose....Hamas says they WILL do it on purpose if/when they can.

interesting....

And if you don't support their actions, how can you support them?

People are judged by their actions are they not?

You can judge Israel as devils, demons, filthy wolves, lions at the door, murderers, and baby killers! What of Hamas? Why should you support Hamas for doing the same, if you cannot support Israel too?

"Two families are fighting over a piece of property, one family shoots into the other family's house, and accidentally kills their baby. Then the other family shoots into the house to purposely kill their children."

Does it really matter who did what first? When the children are involved? Who is more evil? The one who did it on accident, or on purpose? Is it possible that they are both being evil?

(And this is taking into account, the current idea that Israel attacked first...if it didn't attack first...well that makes it all the worse in Hamas' case)

 

[Firelord213]

Israel was attacked FIRST. Terrorists killed Israeli civilians FIRST. If you REALLY studied the conflict, you'd know that.

Which conflict are you talking about :S?
The one where Israel attacked 6 members of Hamas while having a ceasefire on the 4th November?

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

They didn't attack first. Rockets were fired at Israel way before they invaded Gaza (which, ironically, is part of Israel). My cousin's father is in Israel right now, and tells my cousin what is going on. First hand witnesses are always better than trusting people who live across the sea (the media).

 

[Firelord213]

Lol, I never said they Didn't fire rockets to Israel Before the invasion, What I said is that if you Look up 4th November and skip the Obama Election thingy, You should find Israel striking 6 Hamas member DURING the ceasefire when Hamas did not fire rockets.
To hold the Ceasefire, Hamas shall stop firing rockets, And Israel stop Embargoing and killing.
Hamas held its promise, Did Israel? No Israel broke the both promises.

So what's the point with one part breaking the Ceasefire?
That is when Hamas becomes Furious and starts firing rockets into Israel, And Israel managed to ''hide'' it well that Israel were the ones to break the Ceasefire.

As I have to repeat my self 1564561 times, And there's no freaking point with posting in these threads as many of my posts and links are being ignored, But I watch your links and read your posts?

Ok thanks bye, I'll be back if I see something way too extreme that I must reply to.

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

As I've stated, the news is not a good source, especially if it's Faux News you're getting it from. You're basing your accusations off nothing, while I am basing them off of people living in Israel.

 

[Hakeem]

Either way its the Palestinian's fault they are being blown to pieces, you get out of the way.

If I don't duck during a drive by shooting, its my own dang stupidity that got me killed.

No, it isn't. You aren't the one who fired. There is always the possibility that they stop firing when their gun is pointed at you.

It isn't like Israel looks at a children's book store and says "Hey thats a lovely target full of kids, lets make the world mad at us while we blow it up! with kids inside! lolololololololololllololaksdj; sdjf"

Yeah, it being accidental is soooooooo much better.

In war, there is a little thing called "collateral damage", which occurs when battles are fought in civilian areas.

Which should never ever ever happen. I don't care if they fired first, you don't respond by turning civilian areas into a battlefield. You can peacefully march in, and anyone that fires on you will be fired upon. What is the purpose of telling people where you are going to fire anyway? Sure, it might get the citizens out, but it also gets the enemies out, defeating the whole purpose.

It wasn't done on purpose.

To hell it wasn't.
"Whoops, I fired."
"Whoops, I did it again."
"And again!"
"Argh! I suck at this!"
"Is pulling the trigger supposed to make the gun fire or something?!"

The Palestinians, as Elenai explained, chose to sit and die.

Israel chose to kill them. The one with the gun is always more to blame.

So sit and die they did! I'm not trying to sound mean or obnoxious (I am sad that civilians died), but they were warned, and they ignored the warning.

So then don't fire, if you don't want to hurt them.

That, or Hamas was forcing them to die alongside them.

Well then STOP FIRING. If you don't want someone dead, you don't shoot them. Do I need to spell it out for you?

On a side note, if any of you people are learning this from watching the news,

I couldn't find Israel on the map. I don't even know if it is on the map, or exists at all! Perhaps it is a placeholder name of an imaginary city that people use in philosophical debates. It makes no difference to me, I am simply replying to posts. I still don't get how antisemitism ties into this at all.

Don't blame Israel for being better equipped and thus, more damage done.

I damn well will. Do you have a gun in your house?

Is it possible that they are both being evil?

Yes. But remember, whenever you say Palestinians are idiots, you must also condemn Israel for shooting in the first place.

First hand witnesses are always better than trusting people who live across the sea (the media).

What does that make you?

You're basing your accusations off nothing, while I am basing them off of people living in Israel.

I am basing everything I say off of the words of the poster I am replying to.

Only by being completely ignorant am I able to be unbiased.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

If I don't duck during a drive by shooting, its my own dang stupidity that got me killed.

How does that change the fact that they were killed?

If I killed a guy, and this was my defense attourney's argument, I'd have a really hard time in court.
"Your honor, my client is clearly not at fault here. The victim explicitly refused my client's demands to evacuate the premises, and was subsequently bombed. Therefore, it was the victim who was ultimately responsible for the killings."

That's not how it works. It is not justification for consciously taking innocent lives in any way, shape, or form. Protestors actively defy armed personel as well. Do they deserve to die too? Only the ones from PETA.

 

[Elenai]

I think I've clearly said to everyone that Israel is at fault...people have such a lovely way of ignoring things.

That being said, Palestine is being just as stupid, and just as guilty. They are likewise not innocent little lambs, that everyone should boohoo over saying that the devil Israeli's cruelly went into a house and hacked a baby to pieces and ate it's flesh.. That is life, it happens.

(Yes I decided to make an extreme example, to show that this whole conflict is not good vs evil, its a bunch of politics, and both sides are being guilty brats, and that likewise it should be common sense to get out of the way when you are getting shot)

 

[Mechanical Man]

And I suppose you know, considering you're high position in the Israeli government, huh?

And I suppose you know, considering you're the general of the Israeli army, huh?

The fact that anyone, out of their ignorance, could think that Israel "doesn't have justification" to retaliate against terrorism is ridiculous. Countless men, women, children, Jewish scholars, all were slain out of a meaningless hatred instilled into Arabic children at a young age. Killing for no reason is inhumane! What more justification could you possibly need?!

You dont' need to be a general or whatever to know that.


Why then British/Spanish forces don't go bomb Belfast/Vitoria-Gasteiz when IRA/ETA causes a terrorist action?

 

[I)eadnerzhul]

Israel warned the Palestinians to evacuate. I suppose we have that established, yes? If Israel WANTED to kill Palestinians, it would have just ignored them. What's the point in warning people to flee if you want to kill them?

Another thing, why would Israel want to kill Palestinians to begin with? What's their motive?

And yet another thing... why do you keep ignoring the fact that you have no proof for any of your statements? The media is so biased against Israel and Jews in general it's ridiculous... they will bend the truth as much they can in order to make Israel sound like "the bad guy", which it is not. And if you DIDN'T get your information from the news, where did you get it from? Hmmm?

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Israel warned the Palestinians to evacuate.

And where should people evacuate because the whole country is blocked? And the country is too small so there aren't much of country side.

Is it now clear already that the Israel is doing wrong here?