The Gaza situation

[Nuclear]

Let's get the debate going on.

What do you think?

My opinion is that the Israelis have turned Gaza into the world's largest prison and are systematically exterminating the people inside. Hamas is also doing a shitty job trying to solve the situation, if they stopped shooting the rockets (they have no chance of military success anyway, damn idiots), they'd instantly win the western sympathy and Israel would be in deep shit diplomatically.

 

[GhostWolf]

I think you live in a far away country and don't know a thing about politics.

 

[rulerofiron99]

My opinion: Both Israel and Hamas are in the wrong for their military actions, but in the context of the last few decades Israel has been far worse, and Israel has the power to end this conflict.

From what I've seen written by Palestinians in Gaza, the rockets are really a type of "morale boost". If you were under harsh military occupation, you would probably cheer on while your countrymen are fighting back with whatever they have.

The "logic" behind it is the same as between Britain and Germany during World War 2. The British decided to perform "strategic bombing" (civilian areas) instead of targeting military installations, in order to break down the peoples' morale. It had quite the opposite effect, instead steeling their resolve.

I do agree that it's pointless and they should stop, but even if they do, I doubt the Israelis will care. The most notable trigger for the current situation was the alleged kidnapping of 3 Israeli teens - not a rocket attack.

I wouldn't be surprised if they (Israel) find a way to instigate further conflicts themselves; this all works toward their goal of colonising the rest of the region and driving out the current inhabitants.

 

[GhostWolf]

We can discuss this in the chat (I always found forums to be a terrible way to discuss things), or you can continue writing the nonsense that your media gives you.
But I know you'd prefer the latter.

 

[Nuclear]

I think you live in a far away country and don't know a thing about politics.

I think you disagree with my opinion and thought that a personal attack would be the best way to discredit it.

2/5, nice try.

 

[GhostWolf]

I think you disagree with my opinion and thought that a personal attack would be the best way to discredit it.

2/5, nice try.

My opinion is that the Israelis have turned Gaza into the world's largest prison and are systematically exterminating the people inside.

I give the IDF 5 days to destroy the whole Gaza strip. Are we so bad at "exterminating" the people there that we failed to do so in the past...let's call it 14 years?

Open also a thread to discuss Syria, Iraq, Iran, and pretty much every country in which there is a religious Islamist government (or any sort of formal or non-formal Islamist group in control of other people).

 

[N.Knight]

We can discuss this in the chat (I always found forums to be a terrible way to discuss things), or you can continue writing the nonsense that your media gives you.
But I know you'd prefer the latter.

You are so right. I completely agree with you. All the worlds media is wrong. The UN is wrong. The pope is wrong. Everybody is wrong and is disseminating 'nonsense' about Israel.

Whether you like it or not, the facts stand — even if you wish that they were lies.

Also I see no reason, at all, to take this thread of the shelf. This thread started on a fairly neutral stance. It is perfectly acceptable to discus any issue — respectfully. You cannot simply take anyone's right to voice their opinions. This is not the Gaza strip baby, this is the world wide web.

 

[Nuclear]

I prefer forum posts, you have plenty of time to form an argument and think about your response.

But sure, "I don't like a thread so let's close it" - it's the Hive way.

I give the IDF 5 days to destroy the whole Gaza strip. Are we so bad at "exterminating" the people there that we failed to do so in the past...let's call it 14 years?

I obviously didn't mean that destroying the Gaza strip completely is the end goal - I don't know what is - but that's essentially what seems to be happening; the place is practically isolated and under siege.

You are so right. I completely agree with you. All the worlds media is wrong. The UN is wrong. The pope is wrong. Everybody is wrong and is disseminating 'nonsense' about Israel.

When everyone else is wrong, it just might be that it's you who is wrong...

 

[GhostWolf]

You are so right. I completely agree with you. All the worlds media is wrong. The UN is wrong. The pope is wrong. Everybody is wrong and is disseminating 'nonsense' about Israel.

Whether you like it or not, the facts stand — even if you wish that they were lies.

What facts?
You mean facts like the ever peaceful UN, with all its schools harboring rockets, rocket launchers, other assortments of weapons, tunnels, terrorists and so on? But hey, every time they "find" rockets in their peaceful buildings they are "shocked" and give them straight to the local police. Oh wait, that's Hamas.
Or...filmed UN ambulances moving around terrorists?
Or...filmed launches of rockets from within said schools, and from hospitals?
I can go on, I am just wondering what you're talking about.

 

[Eagle XI]

The fact that Israel military is bombing children at the beach.

 

[GhostWolf]

Yes, civilians die as a part of war. Mistakes are done too.

But I assume you don't hear about the other side, of endless air/ship/tank strikes that didn't happen because civilians were spotted, or Israel giving warnings in every way possible to civilians to evacuate their homes before they are bombed.

The really "funny" thing is how the spotlights are on our tiny war, while a hundred civilians dying in a day is a casual thing in the countries around us (or did you forget that more than 170000 people died in Syria in an ongoing war for the past 3 years? or the whole business with ISIS?).
It's just that nobody actually cares. It's all politics.

 

[Nuclear]

What facts?
You mean facts like the ever peaceful UN, with all its schools harboring rockets, rocket launchers, other assortments of weapons, tunnels, terrorists and so on? But hey, every time they "find" rockets in their peaceful buildings they are "shocked" and give them straight to the local police. Oh wait, that's Hamas.
Or...filmed UN ambulances moving around terrorists?
Or...filmed launches of rockets from within said schools, and from hospitals?
I can go on, I am just wondering what you're talking about.

Sources for these allegations please.

 

[GhostWolf]

Can't be arsed, it's all old news and I saw it in Israeli news sites, so you'll say it's all lies either way.
You can find it on other news sites if you'll try.

And please, give sources for your allegations of Israel exterminating the citizens in Gaza. For some reason I think there would be a few more than ~900-1000 (or something?) civilians killed in a month if that were the case.

 

[Nuclear]

Well yeah, I probably would say that they are either misleading or outright lies. In any case I would rather trust reputable international newspapers rather than the media on either side of the conflict.

And please, give sources for your allegations of Israel exterminating the citizens in Gaza. For some reason I think there would be a few more than ~900-1000 (or something?) civilians killed in a month if that were the case.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28439404

During the three weeks since air strikes against Hamas began, more than 1,800 people from both sides have been killed in Gaza, with three Israeli civilians killed in Israel.

 

[GhostWolf]

You realize a big percentage there is made of terrorists we are fighting, yes?
The trustworthy UN said that something around 80% were civilians, except their lies are starting to get out.
I guess we'll have to wait and see on this one, but last I heard more than 40% are already confirmed by name to belong to Hamas / Islamic Jihad or others, and it will probably go way higher. The terrorist organizations aren't exactly helping anyone confirm their soldiers are dying.

The thing that baffles me, is how everyone says "look, only three Israeli civilians died, they are the evil". The fact is that without the iron domes, many more would have died, which would have intensified the fighting in Gaza a lot more, and made more people there killed. The iron domes are saving Gaza-i (?) civilians more than they are saving Israeli civilians.

 

[Mechanical Man]

The problem is far wider than it seems. The fact is that Israel is exerting pressure on other countries to ban pro palestinian protests and arresting those who are protesting. One example of this international dictatorship happened in my country was a match against an Israeli club. Because waving Palestinian flag was already banned, they fined people who drew the flag on A4 paper and removed them from the stadium. Of course, the Mossad was obviously present controlling things there. Like the flags would hurt those few footballers, only ones who could hurt them were our footballers, as we know the game. But this is just a small example, there are worse elsewhere. I do not recall banning pro israeli protests, except in the countries that are almost at war, and even there is a majority against Israel anyway.

Unlike Palestine, Israel also attacks other countries, like Lebanon and recently they were attacking Syrian positions for no reason, in a war which has nothing to do with Israel. So I see the media coverage of the situation a good improvement, being less pro israel as it was before, even though I agree that Hamas is doing everything wrong, but if it escalates with other countries, like Syria and Iran, where Israel is so paranoid with their nuclear program. Now there are problems in Middle East even without Israel and if Israel wants mess the situation even more (like it is not already), there will be even more instability.

 

[GhostWolf]

The problem is far wider than it seems. The fact is that Israel is exerting pressure on other countries to ban pro palestinian protests and arresting those who are protesting. One example of this international dictatorship happened in my country was a match against an Israeli club. Because waving Palestinian flag was already banned, they fined people who drew the flag on A4 paper and removed them from the stadium. Of course, the Mossad was obviously present controlling things there. Like the flags would hurt those few footballers, only ones who could hurt them were our footballers, as we know the game. But this is just a small example, there are worse elsewhere. I do not recall banning pro israeli protests, except in the countries that are almost at war, and even there is a majority against Israel anyway.

Unlike Palestine, Israel also attacks other countries, like Lebanon and recently they were attacking Syrian positions for no reason, in a war which has nothing to do with Israel. So I see the media coverage of the situation a good improvement, being less pro israel as it was before, even though I agree that Hamas is doing everything wrong, but if it escalates with other countries, like Syria and Iran, where Israel is so paranoid with their nuclear program. Now there are problems in Middle East even without Israel and if Israel wants mess the situation even more (like it is not already), there will be even more instability.

The first paragraph sounds like a conspiracy theory, so I'll only respond with this - generally speaking, every time there is a pro-Palestinian protest, it turns violent, so that might be a factor in this regard.

As to Israel shooting to Lebanon and Syria, it was strictly retaliation artillery to the general area from which rockets were fired (probably by Hezbollah).

If you look at the big picture, Israel and Gaza are probably the smallest factor in the Middle East nonsense.

 

[rulerofiron99]

You realize a big percentage there is made of terrorists we are fighting, yes?
The trustworthy UN said that something around 80% were civilians, except their lies are starting to get out.
I guess we'll have to wait and see on this one, but last I heard more than 40% are already confirmed by name to belong to Hamas / Islamic Jihad or others, and it will probably go way higher. The terrorist organizations aren't exactly helping anyone confirm their soldiers are dying.

Do you have source on this? I find it very hard to believe. I suppose it depends on how they classify whether or not someone is a "terrorist". Where is the line drawn - when you fire a rocket? when you grab an AK47? when you throw a stone at the fence?

The thing that baffles me, is how everyone says "look, only three Israeli civilians died, they are the evil". The fact is that without the iron domes, many more would have died, which would have intensified the fighting in Gaza a lot more, and made more people there killed. The iron domes are saving Gaza-i (?) civilians more than they are saving Israeli civilians.

From what I understand, the Iron Dome only targets rockets that would land in an Israeli civilian area. One missile from the Iron Dome costs many thousands of dollars compared to the few hundred dollars per rocket being fired, so it makes economical sense to only target rockets that would have potential for Israeli casualties.

 

[Dr Super Good]

A lot of people are failing to understand that Hamas is using civilian shields. This itself is a major war crime. They are purposely forcing civilians around rocket launch sites to prevent the rockets being destroyed during deployment. I think Israel has been avoiding hitting those targets since they can intercept the rockets with the iron dome and use the rocket fear to rally support against Hamas and not get shouted at for blowing up 50 women and children who for some strange reason "were playing" or "were passing" near a Hamas rocket that was about to be fired.

Oh did you know that Hamas got hold of some serious firepower? Apparently when the Muslim Brotherhood controlled Egypt they lifted the border on Gaza and allowed the movement of who knows how much Libyan weaponry into Gaza. This is how they have managed to get so much fire power despite being blockaded by Israel.

Hamas clearly has no good intentions and does not want peace. A lot of concrete and metal they were given for civil development has gone to construct tunnel networks into Israel so that they can attack. It should have been used for new buildings and rebuilding after the last invasion but clearly Hamas does not care about the people in Gaza, seeing them as pawns to be sacrificed for a greater cause.

 

[sethmachine]

The fact is that Israel is exerting pressure on other countries to ban pro palestinian protests and arresting those who are protesting.

@Mechanical Man This isn't necessarily true at all. The reason why France started banning these protests is because they turned violent and anti-semitic, and in several cases turned into violent crimes against Jews. I would question the peaceful intent of a pro-palestinian protest if they all turned so violent. At that point is a threat to public order.

Directly from this article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/paris-ban-palestine-protest-gaza_n_5599351.html):

French authorities are forbidding pro-Palestinian protests in some cities after violence marred a recent march against the violence in Gaza, as Jewish-Muslim tensions in France have reached their highest level in years.

Moderates on both sides called Wednesday for calm, and for a halt to fighting in the Mideast. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim and Jewish populations, and Israeli-Palestinian unrest often translates into anger between the communities.

After several thousand pro-Palestinian demonstrators marched peacefully Sunday through Paris, clashes broke out among small groups, including some who attacked synagogues, Jewish stores and neighborhoods.

@rulerofiron99

Here is a source (http://www.timesofisrael.com/after-29-days-operation-protective-edge-by-the-numbers/) for the number of people killed based on terrorists/combatants to actual civilians. Note that the numbers given by the UN and Gaza Health Ministry differ from those of the Israel; in the latter a higher proportion of those killed are civilians. I would be suspect to trust the Gaza Health Ministry because it is actually run by Hamas.

In any case, it is unfortunate that innocent civilians have died, and probably true that more civilians have been killed than terrorists.

However, as DSG points out, this part of Hamas' strategy to garner sympathy.

A lot of people are failing to understand that Hamas is using civilian shields.

A few things to consider for those who still believe Israel is negligent or even responsible of war crimes. I don't doubt mistakes have been made by the Israeli army, and given how they are quick to punish their own (the extremists arrested and tried for murdering the Palestinian youth as revenge for the three murdered Israeli teengagers), the questionable missile strikes will be investigated in time and the culpable parties punished. Note this contrasts with Hamas--their rocket attacks are indiscriminate. That is definitely a war crime.

1. Your country is under indiscriminate rocket fire from a group of extremist terrorists whose mission is to wipe out your nation.

2. You are tasked with neutralizing the rocket fire and restoring peace.

3. The rockets are being launched from one of the highest population density areas in the world.

4. Some of the rockets are being launched from civilian residences or institutes (hospitals, mosques, etc.).

5. The enemy has informed its civilians not to leave their homes to escape possible reprisals.

Given these facts, any attempt to neutralize the rockets is going to inevitably result in innocents dying. That is the sad truth of wars and conflicts.

What has Israel done to mitigate this?

They've sent out pamphlets, phone calls, and texts to alert civilians to leave a particular area to avoid an airstrike. They've accepted numerous ceasefires. Their goal is reduce or remove the apparatus that enables Hamas to launch attacks at Israel. It isn't to exterminate the Palestinians. Israel invested in the Iron Dome to protect civilian life. Hamas invested in rockets and tunnels to kill civilians.

 

[N.Knight]

Lets not hush the matter. Lets not call it collateral damage and be done with it. Lets not distort facts. People dying in war is never good. Doesn't matter if they died as human shields or whatever. It still remains a form of murder. If any real peace is to be achieved instead of short term truces, humanness must be placed above cultural and religious identity.

Efforts must be made to build trust. How do you expect the Arabs to leave their homes when they don't trust you in the first place. More importantly where do you expect them to go? Have the Israelis made relief centers for those escaping war, or relief camps? None that I am aware of. Instead from what I read many UN run schools and hospitals were bombed for no reason and without a warning.

Also, what was accomplished from all this...war. Zilch! Has a long term truce be accomplished, or has Hamas been annihilated. A prolonged war gives rise to generations of people who grow up without ever knowing peace and inevitably become part of the cultural conflict. All these conflicts will do nothing but give rise to more Bin Ladens, further increasing problems for Israel.

The way I see it, Israel can easily be the benefactor in this situation. All that is lacking is real policy making (and there is an excess of towel head bashing)

P.S: Palestinian Arabs living in West Bank live in peace with Israel but Gaza suffers violence? Why is that I often wonder? Can anyone throw some light on this?

 

[sethmachine]

Instead from what I read many UN run schools and hospitals were bombed for no reason and without a warning[b/].

This is what you have read and it is an interpretation / opinion of that article/media.. I would be careful with understanding that, as it can lead to wrong conclusions. These linguistic tricks are frequent in this fervent topic. For example, I've read several articles which call the 3 murdered Israeli teenagers hikers or settlers and never actually called teenagers or children. You can imagine how that might affect your opinion of their gruesome murder if you lean towards the pro-Palestinian narrative: it's ok to kill settlers since they are stealing the land and it was their fault for being in the West Bank in the first place. Then you might have even less sympathy for the anger in Israel over their deaths and so on and so forth, where that single choice of words can sway a lot of people. And most readers aren't that intelligent to pick up on things like this--if they read it it must be true.

Have the Israelis made relief centers for those escaping war, or relief camps?

To my knowledge they have set up at least one field hospital for injured Palestinians. See this article: http://www.timesofisrael.com/on-gaza-border-an-israeli-field-hospital-stands-empty/, and Israel has even set up a field hospital for those injured from the Syria conflict: http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-allows-first-peek-into-secret-field-hospital-on-syrian-border/.

Palestinian Arabs living in West Bank live in peace with Israel but Gaza suffers violence? Why is that I often wonder? Can anyone throw some light on this?

This is because the West Bank is run by the Palestinian National Authority whose leader is Mahmoud Abbas. The PA is considered a moderate Palestinian political organization, and has recognized Israel's right to exist along with a 2-state solution. Abbas has renounced a violent solution to the conflict. The PA is not considered a terrorist organization by any countries. However, PA has had associations with groups with a very violent past, i.e. primarily Fatah (Black September) and still has militant groups, and crackpot leaders/members, but Abbas is probably the most moderate Palestinian ever. Heck he even renounced the BDS movement, and he's the de-facto Palestinian leader.

Gaza on the other hand was taken over by the militant Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel for the creation of a single Palestinian state. Hamas does not recognize Israel. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by many countries, including the U.S.

There aren't any rockets being launched at Israel from the West Bank, nor militant terrorist organizations using civilians as shields.

How do you expect the Arabs to leave their homes when they don't trust you in the first place.

This is a huge and hard to solve problem. If I were growing up in Gaza now, I'd certainly hate Israel regardless of whether it is justified or not. And even if I felt Hamas was also to blame, I'd be powerless to speak up. Thousands of Palestinians were arrested, exiled, detained or murdered when Hamas took over, and those who dare speak out don't get to speak for long, if you know what I mean. I bet a lot of people have relatives who have been injured or killed. Additionally, you grow up being taught that Israel is the ultimate evil and has to be destroyed.

Likewise for Israelis--there have been hundreds of terrorist attacks killing civilians. It is hard to learn to trust the Palestinians, though I believe Israelis are a lot more educated and have less propaganda thrown at them (they aren't taught in school that the Palestinians are apes / pigs / demons, whereas this is the case for Palestinians learning about Israel in Gaza).

 

[GhostWolf]

Lets not hush the matter. Lets not call it collateral damage and be done with it. Lets not distort facts. People dying in war is never good. Doesn't matter if they died as human shields or whatever. It still remains a form of murder. If any real peace is to be achieved instead of short term truces, humanness must be placed above cultural and religious identity.

Efforts must be made to build trust. How do you expect the Arabs to leave their homes when they don't trust you in the first place. More importantly where do you expect them to go? Have the Israelis made relief centers for those escaping war, or relief camps? None that I am aware of. Instead from what I read many UN run schools and hospitals were bombed for no reason and without a warning.

Also, what was accomplished from all this...war. Zilch! Has a long term truce be accomplished, or has Hamas been annihilated. A prolonged war gives rise to generations of people who grow up without ever knowing peace and inevitably become part of the cultural conflict. All these conflicts will do nothing but give rise to more Bin Ladens, further increasing problems for Israel.

The way I see it, Israel can easily be the benefactor in this situation. All that is lacking is real policy making (and there is an excess of towel head bashing)

P.S: Palestinian Arabs living in West Bank live in peace with Israel but Gaza suffers violence? Why is that I often wonder? Can anyone throw some light on this?

You didn't actually propose anything though.
I saw a youtube video of some UN person spouting all sorts on anti-Israel things, and at the end he said the UN needs to act and bring an army into Gaza. And I say, go for it!
That's what we've been asking for years.
It's nice and all for everyone to talk, but nobody does anything.

At the end of this small war (which will probably restart today?), Gaza will get billions of dollars in donations, where will this money go? I guess we'll see that in a year or two, in the next conflict.
I would love to live in peace and trust my arab neighbors, I just don't see it happening. Not unless they get up and throw Hamas to the sea.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

I would use too humans as shields and the most ugliest war techniques there ever can be if I had no tanks, helicopters and so on against an enemy who has all those and even more. I wouldn't that point any more care as the hope to win is basically zero. Still I would fight for the motherland.

 

[rulerofiron99]

Here is a source (http://www.timesofisrael.com/after-2...y-the-numbers/) for the number of people killed based on terrorists/combatants to actual civilians. Note that the numbers given by the UN and Gaza Health Ministry differ from those of the Israel; in the latter a higher proportion of those killed are civilians. I would be suspect to trust the Gaza Health Ministry because it is actually run by Hamas.

Agreed, but I wouldn't trust Israel's numbers either. I haven't heard of this newspaper before so I could be mistaken, but with such a name it sounds like state-sponsored news, and as another example of how biased it can be just look at RT (Russia Today).

Hamas clearly has no good intentions and does not want peace. A lot of concrete and metal they were given for civil development has gone to construct tunnel networks into Israel so that they can attack. It should have been used for new buildings and rebuilding after the last invasion but clearly Hamas does not care about the people in Gaza, seeing them as pawns to be sacrificed for a greater cause.

I saw a short documentary about these tunnels; they were carrying applications and such through it, and claiming to mostly carry medical supplies. The tunnels are also used for attacks (as we've seen in the recent conflict), but I doubt that offense is the tunnels' primary purpose. The tunnels weren't even made with concrete - just wooden supports to hold up the ground.

Even if your stated purpose in life is to destroy another country (which I doubt all Palestinians share), fighting all day every day does not put food on the table. Food, medical supplies, etc would take priority for most people.

They've sent out pamphlets, phone calls, and texts to alert civilians to leave a particular area to avoid an airstrike. They've accepted numerous ceasefires. Their goal is reduce or remove the apparatus that enables Hamas to launch attacks at Israel. It isn't to exterminate the Palestinians. Israel invested in the Iron Dome to protect civilian life. Hamas invested in rockets and tunnels to kill civilians.

Apparently, these phone calls come just minutes before the bombing. That's barely enough time to sprint as far away as possible. But what if you're crippled? Or asleep? You don't even have time to gather important belongings. If your house gets hit, you lose everything.

But in terms of destroying rockets, there must be as little delay as possible. With their goal being the destruction of military apparatus, civilian collateral is a secondary concern, so them calling/handing out pamplets is nothing but an attempt at gaining international sympathy.

I'll admit I don't have enough facts about the situation (mainly just some light reading and videos on youtube), but from what I understand, the current rocket attacks are in response to Israeli military brutality.
Timeline being:
1. Three Israeli teens are kidnapped.
2. Israeli military performs numerous search and rescue operations, detain dozens of Palestinians, including teenagers.
3. Some of these detainees are killed, sparking outrage among Palestinians.
4. Rocket attacks begin, IMO as a form of violent protest.
5. Israel drops the hammer.

Your arguments are based on the idea/fact that these rocket attacks are a continuous thing, happening basically every week. If that is indeed the case, please correct me.

 

[Zombie]

I think both the Israeli and the Palestinians are blood thirsty fanatic maniacs.

I still don't like the fact that it was the jews who settled a land full of members of another ethnicity and the media portrays the Palestinians as the aggressors, but meh... it's irrelevant.

There never will be peace in that forsaken land and no matter which side, innocents will keep dying.

 

[Mechanical Man]

The first paragraph sounds like a conspiracy theory, so I'll only respond with this - generally speaking, every time there is a pro-Palestinian protest, it turns violent, so that might be a factor in this regard.

As to Israel shooting to Lebanon and Syria, it was strictly retaliation artillery to the general area from which rockets were fired (probably by Hezbollah).

If you look at the big picture, Israel and Gaza are probably the smallest factor in the Middle East nonsense.

Tell those who were fined and removed from stadium because o A4 flag that is a conspiracy theory. And Mossad was there, it was even offically confirmed. Today A4 Palestine flag is banned, next time flag of Iran will be banned.

And Golan heights is Syrian territory. If stray missiles hits that region, Israel should not interfere anywhere as there is still Syria, especially when they do not even know who hit them and they just make up for an excuse to attack one of their enemies, in this case Hezbollah without any evidence. And is not just artillery, but also airstrikes.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

In war, there are usually no good or bad guys like in the movies. Each side fights for it's own interest and security of it's people. It's pointless to pick sides. Since we only know about it as much as the media allows us (next to nothing), everyone should just work on stopping the conflict.

 

[GhostWolf]

I saw a short documentary about these tunnels; they were carrying applications and such through it, and claiming to mostly carry medical supplies. The tunnels are also used for attacks (as we've seen in the recent conflict), but I doubt that offense is the tunnels' primary purpose. The tunnels weren't even made with concrete - just wooden supports to hold up the ground.

Even if your stated purpose in life is to destroy another country (which I doubt all Palestinians share), fighting all day every day does not put food on the table. Food, medical supplies, etc would take priority for most people.

Apparently, these phone calls come just minutes before the bombing. That's barely enough time to sprint as far away as possible. But what if you're crippled? Or asleep? You don't even have time to gather important belongings. If your house gets hit, you lose everything.

But in terms of destroying rockets, there must be as little delay as possible. With their goal being the destruction of military apparatus, civilian collateral is a secondary concern, so them calling/handing out pamplets is nothing but an attempt at gaining international sympathy.

I'll admit I don't have enough facts about the situation (mainly just some light reading and videos on youtube), but from what I understand, the current rocket attacks are in response to Israeli military brutality.
Timeline being:
1. Three Israeli teens are kidnapped.
2. Israeli military performs numerous search and rescue operations, detain dozens of Palestinians, including teenagers.
3. Some of these detainees are killed, sparking outrage among Palestinians.
4. Rocket attacks begin, IMO as a form of violent protest.
5. Israel drops the hammer.

Your arguments are based on the idea/fact that these rocket attacks are a continuous thing, happening basically every week. If that is indeed the case, please correct me.

All of that post is false.

There are endless images of large tunnels, fully cemented.
Tunnels going to a kindergarten in an Israeli city aren't meant to murder civilians? Really?
So those filmed attacks, where multiple terrorists go out of a tunnel with weapons, they are just fake? did they in fact carry cakes and food to give the near Israeli civilians?
I guess also my friends who were there and saw the tunnels are lying.

Yes, the formal definition of Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel. Of course this isn't to say that every Palestinian wants that, but how does that matter? Hamas are the controlling group in Gaza.

Every time IDF prepared a big attack, the civilians were warned 12 hours and more before. Every time the attack was delayed or canceled because some of the civilians didn't leave.
Heck, let me go as far as airstrikes against known terrorist command centers, where first a non-lethal tiny bomb is sent to the building's roof to give everyone (including the terrorists) a warning, before the actual airstrike.

No, rocket launchers aren't destroyed immediately with no concern about civilian lives, or Hamas wouldn't have any rocket launchers left.

It was known to Israel (as if it's something new) that Hamas are going to start yet another war in the summer.
I assume the previous events made it come a little earlier, but nothing beyond that.

Yes, there are rocket "drippings" (a dumb term used by our media, because rockets are clearly harmless like rain) for the past 14 years.
You just hear about things when Israel actually responds.

 

[Ralle]

I am not following the situation much. Can I get a birds eye view on what exactly is going on? Preferably short.

 

[Nuclear]

You don't source any of your claims (a kindergarten murder tunnel? k) so I might as well say that everything you just said is parroted propaganda. Which it probably is, since most of the stuff you say is bloody ridiculous.


Read some news today, here are some nice picks for you:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/3/israel-spying-spiegel.html

Israeli intelligence spied on United States Secretary of State John Kerry during the latest failed round of Middle East peace talks, the German newspaper Der Spiegel reported Sunday, threatening to worsen already tense relations between the two countries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...e827a2-1adf-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html

RAFAH, Gaza Strip — As Israel showed signs of scaling back its ground offensive in Gaza, its war from the skies continued Sunday, as an airstrike outside a U.N. school in southern Gaza killed at least 10 people. The bloodshed sparked some of the harshest U.S. criticism of Israel since the war began.

Guess they missed the warning shot.

 

[GhostWolf]

You don't source any of your claims (a kindergarten murder tunnel? k) so I might as well say that everything you just said is parroted propaganda. Which it probably is, since most of the stuff you say is bloody ridiculous.

Yes, I am sorry, my friends, and families around me, they are all evil Israeli liars.
Those sirens and explosions over the past 14 years, they are all in our imagination.
The videos taken by Aljazeera (since you seem to deem that Qatari "neutral" news site valid) of large cemented tunnels with terrorists in them, they are all fake.
The videos taken by people in Gaza, of a tiny explosion and later on a big airstrike, all fake.
The videos taken by countless other news networks of other countries in Gaza, they are all fake too.
Gosh, everything here is fake.

Everything I say is so bloody ridiculous.

While we're at it, you didn't source any of your claims.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/3/israel-spying-spiegel.html

Thank you for derailing the conversation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...e827a2-1adf-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html



Guess they missed the warning shot.

Guess humans can't ever make mistakes, or you (and I) don't know the whole story.
Oh wait, I said that, it must be ridiculous.

I am not following the situation much. Can I get a birds eye view on what exactly is going on? Preferably short.

Terrorists shooting rockets and building tunnels into Israel to sneak terrorists from, Israel bombing Gaza. You know, the usual thing that goes on every year or two.

 

[Nuclear]

Yes, I am sorry, my friends, and families around me, they are all evil Israeli liars.
Those sirens and explosions over the past 14 years, they are all in our imagination.
The videos taken by Aljazeera (since you seem to deem that Qatari "neutral" news site valid) of large cemented tunnels with terrorists in them, they are all fake.
The videos taken by people in Gaza, of a tiny explosion and later on a big airstrike, all fake.
The videos taken by countless other news networks of other countries in Gaza, they are all fake too.
Gosh, everything here is fake.


Everything I say is so bloody ridiculous.

Are your jimmies rustled?

While we're at it, you didn't source any of your claims.

What claims specifically? I've posted many news articles, you seem to have missed them.

Thank you for derailing the conversation.

Mentioning Israel spying the US Secretary of State during the negotiations is derailing the conversation. Hilarious.

Guess humans can't ever make mistakes, or you (and I) don't know the whole story.
Oh wait, I said that, it must be ridiculous.

Oops, accidentally bombarded some civilians (time and a time again), what a silly mistake.

I sense a strong emotional involvement in your posts, are you sure you have the capability to think objectively and critically about this matter?

 

[GhostWolf]

What claims specifically? I've posted many news articles, you seem to have missed them.

My opinion is that the Israelis have turned Gaza into the world's largest prison and are systematically exterminating the people inside.

Where are your sources?
Everything you say is ridiculous.

Mentioning Israel spying the US Secretary of State during the negotiations is derailing the conversation. Hilarious.

I think you missed (or ignored) the part where they wrote "last year". The timing of that article couldn't be less of a coincidence. Qatar, ever the neutral party that runs all the wars in the Middle East with their money.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Mentioning Israel spying the US Secretary of State during the negotiations is derailing the conversation. Hilarious.

So? The US spied on Russia the other day and was forced to seek shelter in another country before Russian fighters could blow their spy plane out of the sky. Totally off topic.

Oops, accidentally bombarded some civilians (time and a time again), what a silly mistake.

Very easy when the civilians seem to like gathering around military installations. I would imagine that munitions depots and missile launch sites would be the kind of place to avoid as a civilian.

I sense a strong emotional involvement in your posts, are you sure you have the capability to think objectively and critically about this matter?

Seeing how GhostWolf lives in Israel (at least I recall hearing this in chat), he is probably better than anyone here at telling their side of the story from their civilian standpoint (and not the nonsense that politicians around the world sprout out and argue over to news companies that mangle for viewers).

 

[Rui]

(...)
Also, what was accomplished from all this...war. Zilch! Has a long term truce be accomplished, or has Hamas been annihilated. A prolonged war gives rise to generations of people who grow up without ever knowing peace and inevitably become part of the cultural conflict. All these conflicts will do nothing but give rise to more Bin Ladens, further increasing problems for Israel.
(...)

That depends. It may be the contrary. Just recently, I was reading a book which covered that aspect: the post-war generation in Europe was much better in the political aspect because they knew first-hand the consequences of war. I've seen that in my country too, but tied to the oppressive dictatorship. Nowadays, European politicians may talk about war, but most of them don't feel it when they do. Same for repression. It's my belief that this is also part of the reason for neonazi parties accumulating votes, not only the general unhappiness about the degradation of politics in general.

I am not following the situation much. Can I get a birds eye view on what exactly is going on? Preferably short.

Make that two. I was about to say exactly the same. For people who live in the west, there is no understanding about why that war's happening. All we hear is there are bombings, civilians die, public buildings such as hospitals and schools are sometimes hit. Does anyone know any books or something that can clarify the story from the beginning?
The other day at a library I saw a huge book titled Israel. I felt like purchasing it, but then I didn't.

Israeli intelligence spied on United States Secretary of State John Kerry during the latest failed round of Middle East peace talks, the German newspaper Der Spiegel reported Sunday, threatening to worsen already tense relations between the two countries.

I thought I heard the USA supported Israel? It made sense when I heard it, since the USA is always under terrorist threats and so.

 

[sethmachine]

For a bird's eye view I recommend this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

For a history of Israel / Palestine with both sides of the narrative see this: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/narratives.html

Seeing how GhostWolf lives in Israel (at least I recall hearing this in chat), he is probably better than anyone here at telling their side of the story from their civilian standpoint (and not the nonsense that politicians around the world sprout out and argue over to news companies that mangle for viewers).

Exactly.

Apparently, these phone calls come just minutes before the bombing. That's barely enough time to sprint as far away as possible. But what if you're crippled? Or asleep? You don't even have time to gather important belongings. If your house gets hit, you lose everything.

But in terms of destroying rockets, there must be as little delay as possible. With their goal being the destruction of military apparatus, civilian collateral is a secondary concern, so them calling/handing out pamplets is nothing but an attempt at gaining international sympathy.

You need to get your idealized version of war out of your head and face reality. Many rules / conducts for carrying out war were set by the UN (Geneva Convetions). In practice few countries actually observe these. Come down off your high horse--the world clearly doesn't work this way, otherwise we'd have progressed into a peaceful utopia. How many countries inform their enemies where they are bombing?

Israeli intelligence spied on United States Secretary of State John Kerry during the latest failed round of Middle East peace talks,

I wouldn't be surprised. John Kerry has been an ineffective player at the peace process. And do you really think the U.S. doesn't have spies on Israel or its other allies? Heck, the U.S. was caught spying on Germany just recently! See this article: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ns...dal-triggers-outrage-paranoia-germany-n170366

Israeli military brutality

This is a bit out of proportion to call it military brutality. If you want examples of military brutality I would look no further than this wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht

Or, if you want a more modern and on-going example of military brutality, check out the Syrian / ISIS civil war / conflict:

http://www.france24.com/en/20140807-100000-christians-forced-flee-isis-advance-iraq/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...ffer-as-Much-as-Christians-Under-ISIS-in-Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack

 

[N.Knight]

You didn't actually propose anything though.

I am not in a position to propose anything.
I live thousands of miles away from the Gulf nations. I have never met any Arabs or Israeli Jews in my life. Neither am I interested in military tactics, weaponry or espionage and stuff. So...I an merely speculate.

I am a student of Anthropology and perhaps it will cause you some discomfort but I am currently doing an internship at the UN. UNICEF namely.
Whenever I read about a communal disharmony, I make it a point to read both sides of the story so that I don't end up with a bias towards one side.

If there is any suggestion I can give to any Israeli or Palestinian is that whenever you come across each other, give each other a warm hug, smile and exchange warm conversation. Send chocolates and sweets to each other on holidays and birthdays and the rest will be good. I don't know that if it is as simple as that but someone ought to try. *shrugs

That depends. It may be the contrary. Just recently, I was reading a book which covered that aspect: the post-war generation in Europe was much better in the political aspect because they knew first-hand the consequences of war.,.......

Agreed wholesomely but you know Arabs are a lot less educated people than Europeans. They are more likely to follow the revenge route than for future peace. Also Arab society is male dominated and is signified by stereotypical male characteristics such as bravery, heroism, power, virility, and strength (not saying that many other societies are not). Losing a family member in war is qualified as dishonor. So...perhaps you get the picture.

A cultural renaissance would be required to propel the Arab society out of the oblivion they are currently sinking into. And that dreaded Sharia Law has to go to. I don't think it has any significance in today's world. This happens or else Arab Islamic world will be eaten from inside out by a parasite of its own creation.

*********************************************************
I have also got an interesting anecdote to share with hive members. A few days back I was watching news(I will name the network because there seems to be such a fuss about citing sources: Russia Today on Satellite TV, I don't live in Russia) and my dog was relaxing besides me. There was this news clip of Israel-Gaza conflict, of a child, half burned and crying and she (my dog) got up, went near the screen and began to whine and even licked the screen on occasion. She was trying to console that child. So you see, even she being an animal couldn't control the maternal instincts that were conjured by that image of a hurt and crying child. What I am trying to say here is that violence and revenge does nothing but induce hurt on the innocent and the helpless and they can be from any side. They can be Israelis or Palestinians or anyone else.

The appalling images of the conflict that we (the citizens of the world) are being projected on our TV screens and monitors are producing the same emotions that were produced in my dog. Emotions of sympathy and empathy. The same empathetic emotions I had for Jews who were massacred in the Holocaust when I watched Schindler's List. I was so moved by the scene where that lost child is looking for a place to hide among the ravaging Nazis that I was literally in tears and I believe that many others were too. It is the murder of these infants which is making the Israeli side the villain of this tale. If for once Israelis had apologized for the death of these children and had not simply cited collateral damage the reason these strong empathetical reactions would not have followed. Even if tomorrow Israeli PM or President comes up with something like "We vow to avenge our fallen, we vow to reduce the Hamas and its followers to dust, but we regret the deaths of the innocent children who lost their life in the conflict and we have the deepest of sympathies for their parents." The world will wake up to a new morning. Israel will become the Hero from villain in a day and I really hope it does.

 

[GhostWolf]

Even if tomorrow Israeli PM or President comes up with something like "We vow to avenge our fallen, we vow to reduce the Hamas and its followers to dust, but we regret the deaths of the innocent children who lost their life in the conflict and we have the deepest of sympathies for their parents."

It was said many times, I am assuming your media doesn't like to show you that. Except for the part of destroying Hamas, because that would mean conquering Gaza yet again (a matter of a few days, but then staying there for years to clean out the rats), and nobody wants that.
Or do you think we revel in the killing of civilians?

 

[N.Knight]

It was said many times, I am assuming your media doesn't like to show you that.

My media? Where I live I only get a local news channel which shows news about local issues and stuff. There is only an half a hour international news segment with just snippets of news and flashes of video clips. For international news I have installed satellite TV and as I have stated I was watching Russia Today, also same news was on China Central and Australia Network or did you not care to read my entire post? Perhaps you didn't, nobody wants to read a huge wall of texts anyways. I have also stated that I read both sides of a story, so I don't become biased towards one. However, it could be that I missed the news. Perhaps, it was published in an Israeli daily, then it is unlikely I would have read it, because it is not available in my area. In that case it is your responsibility as an Israeli to link to me the news which reports the PM or someone in power saying something on these lines and I will naturally and whole heartedly accept it.

Or do you think we revel in the killing of civilians?

I did not for even once say that and I don't know why are you even asking me that. Your even quoted me wrongly, thereby I presume, trying to pull my words to a different tangent. I hope you were not trying to do that.
Secondly, if you have not noticed yet, I am striving to push this conversation towards neutrality. Towards thinking beyond communal hatred because it is turning into a blame game. Or perhaps you don't want this conversation to reach a logical conclusion and want this issue to continue indefinitely, hence trying to show the uselessness of this topic. I want to know your intentions Ghostwolf?

Also out of all the people who have posted in this thread, you seem to be the most agitated and distressed and that too needlessly. You should know who speaks for you and who with you, understand the difference and only then act.

Actual extended quote, which changes its meaning entirely.

Even if tomorrow Israeli PM or President comes up with something like "We vow to avenge our fallen, we vow to reduce the Hamas and its followers to dust, but we regret the deaths of the innocent children who lost their life in the conflict and we have the deepest of sympathies for their parents." The world will wake up to a new morning. Israel will become the Hero from villain in a day and I really hope it does.

 

[Footman16]

Easy solution, Palestinian independence. If Hamas continue to pursue violent attacks then the IDF can defend themselves and can do it without international speculation. What is in Gazza anyway? It's just a desert surely and of no substantial use to Israel so I say give them it.

 

[Nuclear]

Very easy when the civilians seem to like gathering around military installations. I would imagine that munitions depots and missile launch sites would be the kind of place to avoid as a civilian.

Today I learned: U.N. shelters are military installations.

Seeing how GhostWolf lives in Israel (at least I recall hearing this in chat), he is probably better than anyone here at telling their side of the story from their civilian standpoint (and not the nonsense that politicians around the world sprout out and argue over to news companies that mangle for viewers).

I don't buy that at all. He is only more influenced by local government propaganda, he doesn't necessarily have any more real information than us unless he is a researched or a journalist. Living somewhere doesn't instantly make anyone an expert on events happening nearby, but it can make them more biased about them.

Where are your sources?

"My opinion is..." I made no factual statements.

AFAIK Al Jazeera is a well regarded media, do you have any reasons to doubt their objectivity? Other than "OMG MOSLIMS!!1!"

Let me also clarify that I do blame Hamas equally for keeping up the conflict with their shitty rocket attacks, but there's no excuse for the civilian casualties by Israeli attacks.

 

[GhostWolf]

Lots of text

I actually did read your whole post, and I am not attacking you in any way. It's just that media in general likes to show what it likes to show, and that's not people trying to act like humans (where's the public interest in that?).

Easy solution, Palestinian independence. If Hamas continue to pursue violent attacks then the IDF can defend themselves and can do it without international speculation. What is in Gazza anyway? It's just a desert surely and of no substantial use to Israel so I say give them it.

Today I learned: U.N. shelters are military installations.

Not that anyone in Israel approves or likes the fact that civilians are dying, as much as you are trying to force people to think the opposite, but the sad fact is that U.N. shelters tend to harbor not only civilians.

I don't buy that at all. He is only more influenced by local government propaganda, he doesn't necessarily have any more real information than us unless he is a researched or a journalist. Living somewhere doesn't instantly make anyone an expert on events happening nearby, but it can make them more biased about them.

Or there's the possibility that my friends, family, and people all around me were actually in Gaza for the past 30 days.

AFAIK Al Jazeera is a well regarded media, do you have any reasons to doubt their objectivity? Other than "OMG MOSLIMS!!1!"

Nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with money. Qatar is supporting all the wars in the Middle East with their money, and Aljazeera is a great propaganda tool for them, like every other news system.

Let me also clarify that I do blame Hamas equally for keeping up the conflict with their shitty rocket attacks, but there's no excuse for the civilian casualties by Israeli attacks.

When you run a war in a densely populate area, when the opposing force keeps civilians around their operations by force, I am sure there will be no civilian casualties. Go for it, general.

 

[Xonok]

I haven't noticed a single mention of how this all actually started.

1. One day the UN and an internation jew organization simply decided that jews need a country.
2. The location was chosen to be roughly the area believe to be controlled by jews several thousand years ago.
3. The current inhabitants (Palestinians), were simply not considered to have any veto right over this decision, despite it being their land.
4. A lot of jews moved to israel from all over the world.
5. Very early israel started to conquer more land from palestinians. Land which wasn't given to them by the mandate, no matter how abusive we consider it towards palestinians.
6. Apparently now Israel is the victim and they are being attacked by "terrorists" in Gaza.
Oh wait, the mandate didn't give them Gaza, so how can a country be attacked in an area that it doesn't have?

 

[Gilles]

On a slightly different note, what's going on in Mosul is pretty awful. For generations, various religious and ethnic groups have lived peacefully (Islam, Christians, other minority groups), but a radical Islamic State group has taken control and is forcing other religions to leave, pay tax, or be killed.

Anyhow, I feel the best thing anybody can do is to support those hurt in these conflicts. Sitting around talking about what leaders should do is pointless. Sending whatever aid we can is the only real option for action. Aside from military intervention, I don't see what the UN or other countries can do. And we know how great military intervention worked in Iraq (see Mosul).

 

[GhostWolf]

I haven't noticed a single mention of how this all actually started.

1. One day the UN and an internation jew organization simply decided that jews need a country.
2. The location was chosen to be roughly the area believe to be controlled by jews several thousand years ago.
3. The current inhabitants (Palestinians), were simply not considered to have any veto right over this decision, despite it being their land.
4. A lot of jews moved to israel from all over the world.
5. Very early israel started to conquer more land from palestinians. Land which wasn't given to them by the mandate, no matter how abusive we consider it towards palestinians.
6. Apparently now Israel is the victim and they are being attacked by "terrorists" in Gaza.
Oh wait, the mandate didn't give them Gaza, so how can a country be attacked in an area that it doesn't have?

Except there weren't any Palestinians, since Palestine didn't exist.
The Arabs got the choice of having their own country, but they instead started with violence. Now that they got beaten again and again, they want the same offer, except why would Israel want to give them anything?
Land was conquered in wars instigated by the Arab countries around Israel, but you seem to deem that unimportant, because it ruins your one sided point.

I also liked how you put quotation marks around the word terrorists. As much as it's an asshole thing to say, I hope you'll have your own little "terrorist" organization in your country one day.

I don't even get your last point, it makes no sense.

 

[Footman16]

Think about it.

 

[Xonok]

Except there weren't any Palestinians, since Palestine didn't exist.
The Arabs got the choice of having their own country, but they instead started with violence. Now that they got beaten again and again, they want the same offer, except why would Israel want to give them anything?
Land was conquered in wars instigated by the Arab countries around Israel, but you seem to deem that unimportant, because it ruins your one sided point.

I also liked how you put quotation marks around the word terrorists. As much as it's an asshole thing to say, I hope you'll have your own little "terrorist" organization in your country one day.

I don't even get your last point, it makes no sense.

I was not referring to palestinians as a nation. Do you understand why arabs didn't agree with Israel being made?
The land had indeed been jewish in ancient times, but not any more. It was arab land when the mandate for Israel was made.
If the palestinians were the agressors, then Israel would beat them up and leave. It would be the logical thing to do. Yet, what has been seen is that Israel actually builds settlements on Palestinian land. How does that punish any terrorists?
Gaza was not part of the land given to Israel by mandate. Thus, there should be no dispute about who it belongs to. Yet, Israel doesn't appear to care.

 

[GhostWolf]

I was not referring to palestinians as a nation. Do you understand why arabs didn't agree with Israel being made?
The land had indeed been jewish in ancient times, but not any more. It was arab land when the mandate for Israel was made.
If the palestinians were the agressors, then Israel would beat them up and leave. It would be the logical thing to do. Yet, what has been seen is that Israel actually builds settlements on Palestinian land. How does that punish any terrorists?
Gaza was not part of the land given to Israel by mandate. Thus, there should be no dispute about who it belongs to. Yet, Israel doesn't appear to care.

There were Jews in Israel also before it became a country too...

Who ever said Gaza belongs to Israel? we left it at 2005 if I might remind you, there is no "occupation" whatsoever.

 

[sethmachine]

I haven't noticed a single mention of how this all actually started.

1. One day the UN and an internation jew organization simply decided that jews need a country.
2. The location was chosen to be roughly the area believe to be controlled by jews several thousand years ago.
3. The current inhabitants (Palestinians), were simply not considered to have any veto right over this decision, despite it being their land.
4. A lot of jews moved to israel from all over the world.
5. Very early israel started to conquer more land from palestinians. Land which wasn't given to them by the mandate, no matter how abusive we consider it towards palestinians.
6. Apparently now Israel is the victim and they are being attacked by "terrorists" in Gaza.
Oh wait, the mandate didn't give them Gaza, so how can a country be attacked in an area that it doesn't have?

This is a completely inaccurate and anti-semitic description of the modern history of Israel.

I'll address each point.

1. One day the UN and an internation jew organization simply decided that jews need a country.

First of all, you need be politically correct and call it an international Jewish organization.

Second, they didn't simply decide that the Jews needed their own country. Throughout the history of Europe there had been many pogroms and massacres of the Jews.

Read this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe

This, with the rise of nationalism in Europe, started the rise of Jewish nationalism. This is commonly called Zionism: that the Jewish people deserve their own country and homeland in Israel. The UN wasn't on board with this plan until after the Holocaust, where the world demonstrated that the Jewish people needed their own country in order to protect themselves.

Note that the U.S. did not enter WWII to save the Jews or stop the Holocaust. Likewise, it was not Russia's goal either (Russia is very heavily anti-semitic, and was only surpassed by Germany during WWII).

For a history of Zionism and understanding why Jews needed their own homeland see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism

2. The location was chosen to be roughly the area believe to be controlled by jews several thousand years ago.

It wasn't like the Jews guessed: "Oh this must be where Israel is." Nope, it's right down in Roman history where they conquered and suppressed the Jewish kingdom. I'm going to believe the Roman historians, and there is even the famous Arch of Titus which celebrates the sacking of the Jewish Temple, depicting soldiers carrying back the Great Menorah.

See this article for the Roman conquest of Judea (the Jewish kingdom during the Roman Empire): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iudaea_(Roman_province)

See this article for an overview of the Arch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus

3. The current inhabitants (Palestinians), were simply not considered to have any veto right over this decision, despite it being their land.

Yes, the Arab neighbors of the Jews grew increasingly hostile when they began to realize the Jews were become a majority in many areas of the British Mandate of Palestine. Nevertheless the UN resolution was passed by the general UN assembly. But that is too bad for them they did not want to co-exist with a Jewish majority / very high Jewish minority.

It wasn't their land, unless you mean the majority of the population in modern day Israel was Arab. The area was first controlled by the British, and also during the immigrations to Israel the Jews bought land from the Arab owners.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_181

4. A lot of jews moved to israel from all over the world.

Yes, many of these were the Holocaust survivors. Would you want to stay in Europe after every nation turned its back on you and let the Germans kill 2/3 of all European Jews?

In the aftermath of 1948 war, the Jewish populations of the Arab / Muslim countries were expelled as a reaction to the founding of Israel and the Jewish victory, further bolstering the population.

5. Very early israel started to conquer more land from palestinians. Land which wasn't given to them by the mandate, no matter how abusive we consider it towards palestinians.

This is complicated, but the fact was that all of Israel's neighbors rejected its creation and would have destroyed it (a possible second Holocaust of sorts) had they been military victorious. Thus the borders Israel took were in response to the security situation (being surrounded by hostile neighbors in every direction).

All of the wars were in response to Arab aggression. Also, note that when Egypt and Jordan took over parts of the future Palestinian state, they did not actually let it become its own nation (they could have!).

6. Apparently now Israel is the victim and they are being attacked by "terrorists" in Gaza.
Oh wait, the mandate didn't give them Gaza, so how can a country be attacked in an area that it doesn't have?

When rockets are being fired at your country indiscriminately, I would certainly hope my country's military does something to stop it.

Israel isn't being attacked in Gaza, they are being attacked from it by various militant groups recognized as terrorist groups by many countries, particularly Hamas, the dominant group in the Gaza strip.

Gaza was not part of the land given to Israel by mandate. Thus, there should be no dispute about who it belongs to. Yet, Israel doesn't appear to care.

Israel isn't invading the Gaza strip because they want to conquer it. They invaded to neutralize the threat of the rockets and tunnels used to kill Israeli civilians. Israel controlled the Gaza strip up until 2005, when they pulled everything out and gave it back to Palestinian control.

Let me also clarify that I do blame Hamas equally for keeping up the conflict with their shitty rocket attacks, but there's no excuse for the civilian casualties by Israeli attacks.

If Hamas is purposefully using civilians as human shields, then certainly it is not Israel's fault 100%. The logic suggested is that Israel should do nothing in response (the only way to avoid civilian casualties). But, if you were an Israeli and lived in Israel, this would be incompatible. An overwhelming majority of the Israeli public is support of the current war. So yes, being an outsider you're blind to what it's actually like. We can sit on our high mountains all day and spew this utopian garbage about how wars should be carried out.

Until you are a commander in charge of neutralizing terrorist attacks from a highly densely populated enclave and can come up with a more civilian friendly way to avoid killing civilians who are being used as human shields (=rocket launching sites intentionally put near them), then it doesn't really matter what you think. Because that's not even close to reality.