1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The poll for Hive's 12th Concept Art Contest is up! Go cast your vote for your favourite genie!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Travel to distant realms and encounter scenes unknown to the common folk. The Greatest of Adventures is upon us with the 8th Cinematic Contest. Join in on a fun ride.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The 18th Icon Contest is ON! Choose any ingame unit and give him/her Hero abilities. Good luck to all.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Contestants are to create a scene set in the Stone Age. Come and see what you can come up with. We wish you the best of luck!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Colour outside the lines! Techtree Contest #13 is a go. The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Greetings cerebrates, our Swarm needs new spawners that will have numerous children. Join the HIVE's 31st Modeling Contest - Spawners and Spawned! The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  9. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

How to give good Critique

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Tutorials' started by Ash, May 18, 2008.

  1. Ash

    Ash

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    When people submit maps, the last thing they want is a comment that says 'Crap Map!', or indeed 'good map!', as that doesn't help them improve at all. Although, I must say I'd prefer the latter to the former. In this tutorial I'm going to attempt to explain how to write a good review, showing both good and bad examples (that I've wrote).

    The first step in writing a review is describing what it is and it's topic. For example, if you were to review the map 'DotA', it would be appropriate to write with the sense that the reader knows nothing about the map, however highly unlikely that is. This means that you'll have to write a bit about who the map creator is -- although, if you're reviewing the map on the hive you can skip that -- and what the map is. For example:

    The hard part of writing this is when you are reviewing maps with a storyline. For example, the Warcraft 3 Campaign. It would be improper to reveal the details of the invasion by the Burning Legion, and also improper to say that no twists happen at all. A good trick is to reveal the first chapter or so, and then mention that the game contains several twists and turns. A good and bad example follow:

    Although, you have to bear in mind that your opening is summarizing the game, so you should keep things short and snappy in order to move onto your ideas; the review.

    You then have two options, you can either continue to write about the Author and mention why he made the map, although this step applies mainly to films and literature. Or you can move on and comment on how the Author 'pulled off his map'. For example, using DotA again, you can do it like this:

    Whilst you don't necessarily need to like the 'work' you're reviewing, you need to remember that criticism is more than complaint. Map makers have a limit of 3-4MB, just like Book Authors have limited pages and Artists have limited exhibit space, and everybody is constrained by finite time and the lack of resources (I.E Green Aliens with Laser guns for eyeballs, bet you won't find a model like that!). An easier way to explain this part would be to use a quote from my, now ex, English Teacher.

    The important thing to remember is that a map is a tool with a specific function. To evaluate the tool, you must first understand the function. And having done that, you must explain it to your reader, answering the question, what is this map good for? Along the way, you will find yourself ripping the map apart to see how it works, imagining how it could have been created differently, seeing it from the author's point of view, and, perhaps, comparing it to other works. And that is critical reading.

    Of course you have to state the parts that don't work, but you don't have to be a complete jerkoff about it. Just keep things formal and speak with the intent of weighing up both the good and bad sides of things.

    In closing, a review should consist of an opening in which you introduce the map, a middle in which you state good and bad points, and a ending in which you state how you think the Creator did overall. The key points to remember are to be concise, to evaluate alternate explanations (I.E look at things from the other side, an example being DotA lovers and haters) and don't try to appease everyone. Sure enough you can be the friendliest person in the world, but it's not going to help the map creator. Sometimes you have to tell him that parts he's done just doesn't work.

    I hope that with this you will be able to criticize maps better than just saying 'yeah that was good 5/5' or 'nah, that really sucked. 1/5'.

    Below is a review of DotA, mainly because I've used that as a running example throughout.

    The above review was rather rushed, I'll admit. I'll tidy it up if anyone has any major beef with it, though. Just before I finish the guide, I should leave you this link. That leads to a man known as Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw. His reviews are the perfect example of how to do it, and I recommend future-reviewers (yeah, thats you) to watch some of his stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  2. bia

    bia

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    39
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    whoa cool guide :thumbs_up:
     
  3. Razmataz

    Razmataz

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Spoken like a true reviewer.
     
  4. Darkholme

    Darkholme

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,049
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    2
    Skins:
    5
    Resources:
    9
    I imagine this is useful, though it's sad that something like this is necessary. in addition, I would be surprised if the people who need to read this do so.
     
  5. Ghan_04

    Ghan_04

    Vice Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,387
    Resources:
    2
    Tutorials:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    This information is very useful, even if some people won't read it.
    That is a great way to go about reviewing a map.
    Approved.
     
  6. TheDivineBoss

    TheDivineBoss

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,562
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Long but straight to the point.
     
  7. Master334

    Master334

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    228
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Very good review. Moderators could slack of and just say to people who basicly spam with thier reviews: "Read this and come back (link to this)". Most usefull guide to reviews and how to do them.
     
  8. TheDivineBoss

    TheDivineBoss

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,562
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    ''I sens a non engish map''

    Nuff said.
     
  9. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

    Code Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,427
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Spells:
    4
    Tutorials:
    9
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    18
    Lol, those comments were hilarious.

    "I sens a non engish map"
    "I sense a Non-English review..."

    Anywho, nice tutorial. Useful, it helped me so I assume it will help others too.
     
  10. liveonline

    liveonline

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    you really put work in to that. however i find it sometimes easier to say what i like and dont like, and give it a rating. And Ben ''yathzee'' Crosshaw owns :)
    I watch his zero punctuation reviews every wednesday.

    ->This is my first post so hi everyone :) <-
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  11. Epimeliad

    Epimeliad

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    209
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    wow, that interesting. Must say u have given a lot of thought about reviews either from receiving crap review people sent you or getting reviews which do not reflect the game potential. =P
     
  12. Sergeant Ray

    Sergeant Ray

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Good tutorial. makes a great point. I just find it hard to believe that Ash of all people has given a Good tutorial on how to be nice?
     
  13. Ash

    Ash

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    How to be nice and giving critique is different, I just said that you can be as nasty as you want about the map, just don't be a dickhead to the maker.
     
  14. Sergeant Ray

    Sergeant Ray

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    That makes no sence. If your being a complete dick by telling someone there recources suck, your saying it to their face. Whatever you say about a recource applies to the author.
     
  15. Ash

    Ash

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Hardly; if I tell you your map sucks, then I'll provide ways to improve the map. Critique is harsh, yet if you take a personal grudge to it then you shouldn't be in the internet.

    Drop your grudge before you make a larger fool of yourself?
     
  16. Sergeant Ray

    Sergeant Ray

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Agreeded don't keep a grudge. but if I told you that your maps are absolutly horriable, are you just going to let it go?
     
  17. Ash

    Ash

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Yes. If I actually cared about my maps, then I'd work to improve my map with the advice given.
     
  18. Sergeant Ray

    Sergeant Ray

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    So if I sat here and told you your tutorial sucked. I learned nothing, don't post another cause you don't know what you are doing, you will seriously tell me that instead of writing notes to me to shut the hell up, you would ignore it and fix the tutorial with no hate?
     
  19. Ash

    Ash

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Resources:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    If you actually gave detailed, backed up reasons then yes, I would.
     
  20. tfr.didi

    tfr.didi

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    14
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    The disadvantage of this type of Review/critique is that only someone can give it who knows a lot about the map. Playing a map with some friends for example dosen't tell you how the community is like.
    Reviews of this type are really useful, but only for finished maps. Beta-Status-Maps don't need a review like this, there its enough, to list the bugs and improvements and probably rate them ;-). Only a well know nearly bugfree map is worthy of such a review.