• Listen to a special audio message from Bill Roper to the Hive Workshop community (Bill is a former Vice President of Blizzard Entertainment, Producer, Designer, Musician, Voice Actor) 🔗Click here to hear his message!
  • Read Evilhog's interview with Gregory Alper, the original composer of the music for WarCraft: Orcs & Humans 🔗Click here to read the full interview.
  • The Hive's 22nd Icon Contest: Creep Abilities is now concluded, time to vote for your favourite set of icons! Click here to vote!
  • ✅ The POLL for Hive's Texturing Contest #34 is OPEN! Vote for the TOP 3 SKINS! 🔗Click here to cast your vote!
  • ✅ The POLL for Hive's Techtree Contest #20 is OPEN! Vote for the TOP 3 FACTIONS! 🔗Click here to cast your vote!

Hive Spirituality Poll

Do you consider yourself religious?

  • Very Religious

    Votes: 10 7.8%

  • Atheist

    Votes: 52 40.3%

  • Religious

    Votes: 22 17.1%

  • Not Really... (leaning towards no)

    Votes: 23 17.8%

  • I Practice a Non-Theistic Religion

    Votes: 13 10.1%

  • I Don't Know...

    Votes: 9 7.0%
  • Total voters
    129
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ah, F@#% yeah! I'm betting 100 USD that either Shiik or HindyHat will be first to counter Elenai's arguments!

Did you know that if you are a creationist, you have to deny almost every technology ever invented? That's right Elenai, so turn off your computer.
Click to expand...

Do explain... I don't exactly get your logic here
 
Elenai said:
Where did the (atomic singularity - matter) come from?
Click to expand...
Matter is a form of energy. That energy came from somewhere. Where it came from nobody knows, but it's there. We know it exists simply because without it, we wouldn't exist.

Elenai said:
Do you have proof that you will live three days from now? Or do you believe you will like the majority of society?
Click to expand...
I don't have proof that I will live. For all I know I could die in my sleep, but based on statistics and common sense I can draw the conclusion that I will be alive tomorrow and I can also hope I will live tomorrow and the day after that. I don't "believe" anything or have "faith".


Elenai said:
Takes faith to believe that.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. It doesn't take faith to know you know something. It takes faith to believe in something you can never know is true. I can't know that I'm alive tomorrow, but tomorrow I will know. Faith is different.

Elenai said:
In translation: You don't know for sure, so with some level of assurance, faith, and belief, based on the statistics, you believe you shall live three days from now, and stand on your faith and act as though you shall indeed live.

That is Faith...
Click to expand...

Correction:
Elenai (FIXED) said:
In translation: You don't know for sure, so based on the statistics, you're certain you shall live three days from now, and act as if you will continue to live.
Click to expand...


Elenai said:
You trust that it is true, even without absolute evidence: Trust, belief...Faith.
Click to expand...
Wikipedia isn't a site you can trust to have correct definitions. This is where dictionaries come into play. "Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof" - Oxford Dictionary of English.
When you have no reason to think you're not going to live tomorrow, you draw the conclusion that you will. No faith or other crap involved.

Elenai said:
You can assume that I can assume that God exists assumptively on bad evidence, and assume that I cannot know that he exists. I can assume otherwise.
Click to expand...
You have faith in God. You believe in something which cannot be proved. You don't have anything to back up your beliefs, yet you still believe in him/her, that is faith.


Now, can we please let this thread die? I don't want to argue about this, but it's my nature to say what I know when something absurd is posted, so please stop.
 
Matter is a form of energy. That energy came from somewhere. Where it came from nobody knows, but it's there. We know it exists simply because without it, we wouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

Fascinating. I'll take note of this for future use.

I don't have proof that I will live. For all I know I could die in my sleep, but based on statistics and common sense I can draw the conclusion that I will be alive tomorrow and I can also hope I will live tomorrow and the day after that. I don't "believe" anything or have "faith".
Click to expand...

Correction:
Click to expand...

Like it or not, you still have faith-trust, that you will live. Faith.

Wikipedia isn't a site you can trust to have correct definitions. This is where dictionaries come into play. "Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof" - Oxford Dictionary of English.
When you have no reason to think you're not going to live tomorrow, you draw the conclusion that you will. No faith or other crap involved.
Click to expand...

–noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith

____________

You have a form of faith/trust/confidence ~ synonymous. Why are you so vehement on denying what you have?

You have faith in God. You believe in something which cannot be proved. You don't have anything to back up your beliefs, yet you still believe in him/her, that is faith.
Click to expand...

You can assume that if you wish.
 
NOW, would you guys really stop? i would love that.
Click to expand...

Sure.
shrug2.gif
 
Elenai, I don't have faith. Why do you keep saying I have faith as if your life depends on it? I DON'T HAVE FAITH. Get it? Also, using a slightly more advanced English than the average populace doesn't make you sound smarter and it doesn't make your arguments more valid, it makes you look more desperate. Whether you use advanced English or basic English doesn't change anything. Those who're not that good in English might think you're a bit smarter, but think about it. You're arguing with me, so what words you use won't change anything. "Hey look at me I can use the word vehement! Now my argument is so much better!". Also, I do not assume, believe or have faith in anything, I know, or in some cases, have no reason to think otherwise. I have no reason to think I'll be dead tomorrow, from that I draw the conclusion that I will be alive tomorrow and I plan my actions based on that knowledge. Is it that hard to understand, or do you just have to vehemently deny this? Note the fact that I, just for teh lulz of it, used your favorite word against you.
 
You can assume that I assume, just like you assume there is a God, but keep it to yourself and stop saying that as if you know everything and you're never wrong. You're like the bully now, saying "I'm right, you're wrong so stfu!". Ye, that's you. I do not assume that I don't have faith, I know I don't have faith. I know. There's a very noticeable difference.
 
@The_World_Is_Flat

Simply by telling them to stop in post isn't enough. Use report button instead. I already stopped this arguing, since I agreed with Kingz.

What Can I say about Elenai... He just loves being High Elven Priest.

Also I second Stanakin, why are you thanking him, he and few others are the reason why there is this arguing.

You guys should take this matter arguing about does god exist or not in PM. Oh, here's conclusion - you won't do it, you want others to hear, you want others to support you. But some "others" are annoyed by this arguing D:


Hey! But The_World_Is_Flat, you probably knew what happened to previous religion threads, they all turned into arguing. Yet you created same themed thread - about religion.
 
If I just had moderator powers, so I could close this troll debate thread with the following words:

Keep thy religion too thyself.

Shame it can't be that way.
 
Did you know that Jesus was at a time where many 'prophets' were active? You could basically call it a 'fashion' back then. And by chance someone or two believed him, resulting a chain reaction that resulted in a almost-monopolist corporate religion business that made billions worth of profit over a time of 2000 years.

I'm telling you, Jesus and his apostles were no ordinary men, no, they were businessmen.
 
posting here because I don't want that WILL wins his bet :D

I don't believe in god(s). There have been faith for thousands of years now, because mankind wanted to know why they exist, how the world was "born" etc and there have always been people who answered: "a god did it". Religion is also pretty much for "weak" people, because they have to believe in something to endure their life, and some upper being comes quite handy in this case, because it gives them hope that everything will be better one day, but at the end of their life they still live under the same bad conditions like 50 years ago.
 
Hope is something completely different. "Faith" and "believe" is related to religion, supernatural powers and things which you can't know is true etc. To hope something is true is an entirely different thing because then you don't really think it's true, but it would be very convenient if it were. I hope I'll live tomorrow, because that would be nice, I don't believe or have faith in that I will live because that means I presume that God will let me live. To believe or have faith in something means there is some form of divine intervention. If I believe I'll be dead tomorrow then I think God will make it so.
Oh, and Elenai, I'm not hostile, I'm not the one saying "I'm right you're wrong." I'm coming with good arguments and explain why, you just say "Everyone has faith" WITHOUT any solid arguments or explanations as to why. Get it?
 
The hell they are. let me dig up definitions:

"Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, concept or thing. The English word is thought to date from 1200–50, from the Latin fidem or fidēs, meaning trust, derived from the verb fīdere, to trust." - Wikipedia

"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true." - Wikipedia

They don't Directly mean 'I belive' and/or 'I have Faith' that god exsists. They are terms that people use every day, to describe thing every day. e.g: "I have faith the world leaders will come to an agreement. I have faith in the fact that we are humans, and we are capeable of agreeing on somthing."

But that doesen't also mean that faith doesent work, and is used in the context 'I belive in god' But saying that you don't belive, or have faith in somthing, becasue it is commonly used to refer to religious concepts is jsut plain silly. Its like saying that i wont use the word 'lord' anymore becasue that what they call jesus christ.

OK I'M GLAD WE HAD THIS SESSION OF CATFIGHTING. LETS KEEP IT UP. -.-
 
Why close this thread? Its not (mainly) flaming, there are good arguments on both sides.

In my opinion, some of us have bad expirience with simple-minded religious people and others have bad experience with simple-minded atheists. We take a potionfrom our (limited) ecperience. But history is more ambivalent then my own personal experience:

Its a fact, that in the name of religion there were crusades, inquisition and so on. Its also a fact, that the worst killings in the last century were executed in the name of two antireligious (and one etheistic, "progressiv") ideologies.

Its a fact, that the war in iraq was started with the lies of some evangelical christs. But its also a fact, that slavery was abandonded mainly through the politic of evengelical christs in 18./19. Century.

So there are no simple teachings from history. (And I choosed examples that are fiiting with my own, religious perspective. Surely you can take other examples that change the balance).

But there is no last certainty. Whether for religious people or for atheists. We can only reflects: Which Explanantion fits well with the world/ my life. There is no proof, no "point of view" where we can ultimately judge over religious/ nonreligious convictions.
 
Last point:
Concerning the question of faith/ believing - it depends (logically) all form the definition of faith.
In Philosophy/ "Science theroy" (dont now the right word, in German its "Wissenschaftstheorie") Faith is a universal anthropological value. Its impossible not to have faith (at least into the Existence of the world or the existence of my own person - and there is no proof for that). This kind of faith as a condition of Life/ Thinking was first explored from David Hume (who was a atheist Philosopher).
Maybe Elenai/ Will use the world in this meaning...
 
Again, Wikipedia isn't a site you can trust to have correct definitions on things. The articles on wikipedia are written by people like you and me. If another guy had written it, it would say something completely different. Those articles are based on what the writer thinks is true. If you ask any teacher/lecturer/whatever he would say that you cannot trust wikipedia simply because of the reasons I just mentioned. Faith and belief is related to religion. If I have faith in someone then I hope God will help them. If I believe you can run at the speed of light then I expect that God will help you. If I think you can get an A+ on a math test then I'm quite certain you can do it. If I hope you can punch a hole through a thick metal plate then I don't know if you can do it, but it would be convenient and/or helpful depending on the situation.


Edit: Having faith can also mean believing in some kind of deity.
 
Devil, the difference between random bullshit anyone can write about anything and Wikipedia is that Wikipedia uses sources. It's up to you whether or not to trust said sources, of course, but what's on Wikipedia is a lot more plausible than what your neighbour or friend could tell you.
 
Don't forget RebornDevil...I also cited dictionary.com. >_> Which said the same exact thing.

I'll be blunt: It seems to me that you're reviling against a truth about yourself that you don't want to hear, because of the implications that are, or the implications you perceive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Richardsteel
  • Locked
[JASS] Newbie JASS Question
Replies
3
Views
903
Richardsteel
Richardsteel
Da Fist
  • Locked
  • Poll Poll
Pacquiao vs Marquez 4
Replies
11
Views
2K
eubz
eubz
Kitabatake
  • Locked
Polls displaying usernames
Replies
9
Views
2K
Jaakko
Jaakko
Zoraykos
  • Locked
Sort of like a critical strike ability...
Replies
6
Views
1K
Eleandor
Eleandor
Naze
  • Locked
  • Poll Poll
Arena Contests Changes
Replies
45
Views
6K
Kyrbi0
Kyrbi0
Back
Top