• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Hive Spirituality Poll

Do you consider yourself religious?

  • Very Religious

    Votes: 10 7.8%
  • Atheist

    Votes: 52 40.3%
  • Religious

    Votes: 22 17.1%
  • Not Really... (leaning towards no)

    Votes: 23 17.8%
  • I Practice a Non-Theistic Religion

    Votes: 13 10.1%
  • I Don't Know...

    Votes: 9 7.0%

  • Total voters
    129
Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 25
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
2,572
I can understand that you can love math, but science and physics contradict religion. I have a Christian math teacher, but all the science and physics teachers I've had over the years are atheists, as well as my history teachers. Kinda interesting that you can be religious and still love the very thing which have been used to explain that your God doesn't exist :D

Those are the aspects of nature and I for once acknowledge their existence as a force.

However i still acknowledge the existence of god as a force above those, therefore they can coexist, i see no reason why they can't.
 
Level 34
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
5,552
A question that regards bashing of Elenai, to Elenai:
Are you a creationist or an evolutionist? And please clarify in normal English-English* on what scale you are one, from 1 to 10.



* Normal readable English, no tautology, no containerwords, no bullshitting poetry, just a straight answer.
 
Many give religion the credit for the rules and without religion there would be chaos etc, but even animals have rules for how they're supposed to behave, so rules are something we have inherited from our predecessors (the monkeys <3). It's natural, it's something already in us. Our brain sends out hormones when we do good things to make us happy and when we do bad things it sends out hormones to make us feel bad. The only thing religion did was write it down.

Well if it was so simple then there wouldn't be so many types of people and so many interests. What is considered good to one person is considered wrong to others - though this may not explain religion it goes a bit further then saying that every time you see a puppy your going to feel happy because puppies make humans happy (a majority of people like puppies, but of course there's always exceptions to the rule).

And often I see Religion countering what makes some people happy, and used in or contorted in a terrible way Religion can be used to impose unrest and despair.

Though Animals also follow similar rules, it has been shown to be less evident - your going to have a much harder time finding a puppy that dislikes to play ball then finding a human that dislikes playing ball. Perhaps this evolutionary came with humans ability to think abstractly, as man can rely more so on mind then instinct.
 
Level 35
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
5,366
Are you a creationist or an evolutionist? And please clarify in normal English-English on what scale you are one, from 1 to 10.

Both. :p

Science, and Faith are NOT mutally exclusive. How - Why. Science has only ever shown me how clever an artist God is, and how amazing creation is, and its workings/how it works. My faith shows me 'why'.
 
Level 35
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
5,366
I'm not at liberty to say 'how' he did any of it. Only that I believe it is possible, and perhaps even plausible that evolution was used in the creation of life: For mankind, I do not know.

"I wasn't there to observe how he did it."

Adam was made from dust...Isn't everything made from the dust of stars? (my thoughts)
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

So for confirmation, you belive god created us as microbes? and then we cret into his envsionment or what? :D

Scientists have yet to prove that we actually have evolved from monkeys, or any other species. Correct me if I am wrong, but you'd think they'd voice the news if they had the necessary data.
Not that I find the Christian Genesis any more likely than evolution.
 
The main problem I see with things like creationism and evolution is that they still don't explain what is before - Evolution still doesn't have a good explanation of who life originally started and Creationism doesn't explain how a deity came into being. Even the big bang theory fails to explain where all the matter came into being - it seems as if most things like this eventually have to start with a "its just there" sort of thing.

I don't think this is a question that can even be answered.
 
Level 22
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
2,216
Well if it was so simple then there wouldn't be so many types of people and so many interests. What is considered good to one person is considered wrong to others
Ye, but that's because people (and other animals) fail. Even among the animals there are some who are cast out of the group because they break the rules. It's only we humans who punish people either by death or prison. In the animal world they just get cast out of the group. Also, not all animals are like this. It's the social animals like monkeys, humans, dogs, etc which have as advanced rules as this.

your going to have a much harder time finding a puppy that dislikes to play ball then finding a human that dislikes playing ball. Perhaps this evolutionary came with humans ability to think abstractly, as man can rely more so on mind then instinct.
Even though it's not exactly related to the rule things I talked about, I can say that all animals are different. The reason they like football and other things is that it's a part of their nature, they train so they can hunt. Playing football is good for their reflexes and stamina and all that, while we humans aren't like that. We humans even drastically reduce our life span by training too much. Our body hasn't evolved in such a way. We're originally herbivores, so we can eat stuff which doesn't move away, while dogs which are carnivores need to chase their food, thus they need to train. Even if we give the food to them on a plate they still train. Also, there has been done a lot of research on animals lately, and it would seem we humans aren't as high above the animals as we would like to think. We do have a bigger brain though, and it's slightly more advanced than the other animals brains too.

And shiiK, there are so many similarities between humans and monkeys it's so certain they're our predecessors it's no doubt about it. They have found tons of other links (which are extincted now) between us and monkeys it's as certain as it could get.



And there are probably someone thinking "But he said that was the last thing he would say.", well, read again because I said it's the last thing I'll say about RELIGION.


Edit: Elenai, plz stop, you're tempting me so much to just come and contradict you, but to contribute to the peace I will try to keep it to myself. I'm at the edge of tipping over now.
"Inevitably, mankind is bound to having some form of Faith." I want to say you otherwise so much there, but, argh,aaaah.
 
Also, there has been done a lot of research on animals lately, and it would seem we humans aren't as high above the animals as we would like to think. We do have a bigger brain though, and it's slightly more advanced than the other animals brains too.

Exactly, but that increased/advanced brain does allow humans a bit more freedom from instinct.

"Inevitably, mankind is bound to having some form of Faith." I want to say you otherwise so much there, but, argh,aaaah.

*Throws Reborn a Cookie*
 
We do have a bigger brain though, and it's slightly more advanced than the other animals brains though.

Actually, elephant brains appear bigger and, more importantly, more advanced than those of humans.

Also, for those who think humans are better than animals, look at this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8631486.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk
There are dozens of other examples. Humans are note better than animals, because they are animals. Humans have not been chosen by a deity. You can't go out and shoot crows for fun and claim it doesn't matter because god loves you more than he does the bird. I hate religious people most when they use their religious superiority complex to justify exploiting , torturing and needlessly killing animals.

@ Below, yeah, and memory, and the part of their brain that controls emotion and empathy is more advanced as well.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

[..] as certain as it could get. [..]
That implies it's already proven, it is not. It is perhaps as likely as it gets, but if they are on the right strain it will continue to grow in probability until a climax is reached; a conclusive proof of evolutionary inheritance. Until that climax is reached, you can't claim to know that humans have evolved from monkeys. In the end, the damage it does to Christianity (or other religions) is insignificant, because they merely need to alter the already altered Bible to account for the change. As far as I am aware, it doesn't say humans just were and that monkeys are not an early stage of humans. Even if the story is that God created Earth in the course of seven days, it cannot be interpreted literally.
 
Level 19
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
3,681
Actually, elephant brains appear bigger and, more importantly, more advanced than those of humans.

Also, for those who think humans are better than animals, look at this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8631486.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk
There are dozens of other examples. Humans are note better than animals, because they are animals. Humans have not been chosen by a deity. You can't go out and shoot crows for fun and claim it doesn't matter because god loves you more than he does the bird. I hate religious people most when they use their religious superiority complex to justify exploiting , torturing and needlessly killing animals.

@ Below, yeah, and memory, and the part of their brain that controls emotion and empathy is more advanced as well.

I believe you're talking about 1800-1400, but not 2010.
 
Level 22
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
2,216
Until you know absolutely everything reborndevil...you will have to have some form of faith (belief in something beyond immediate knowledge). Fact.

Omg, omg, omg. I have no faith whatsoever, so according to your logic I should know everything. Yet, I know enough to know I don't know everything, which makes your argument invalid. I have no faith, at least not based on the (correct) definition of faith. Someone such as you should know what faith is, but here goes:
"a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny"
or
"belief and trust in and loyalty to God"
or
"belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion"
or
"firm belief in something for which there is no proof."

I only believe in what can be proved, I never believe in things that might be true. I deny any supernatural powers. I laugh when someone say they're psychic and can talk to the dead. I don't trust any God/god, God is to me inexistent. There is no way you can say I have some sort of faith. Some people even hate the word.


Now, please, stop provoking me with these things.
 
Level 20
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
1,960
WherewolfTherewolf said:
Evolution still doesn't have a good explanation of who life originally started
... and it's not intended to explain the origin of life. It explains the diversity of life.

WherewolfTherewolf said:
Even the big bang theory fails to explain where all the matter came into being - it seems as if most things like this eventually have to start with a "its just there" sort of thing.
As quoted from Wikipedia: "Without any evidence associated with the earliest instant of the expansion, the Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the Universe since that instant."
And as far as I am aware, it is simply physically impossible to actually see beyond what we have already seen in what concerns the origins of the universe. In any case, there doesn't actually need to be any matter for it to have started: look up quantum fluctuations. I'm sure there are a fair amount of other theories which take a stab at this as well.

shiiK said:
Scientists have yet to prove that we actually have evolved from monkeys, or any other species.
If you really want details, look up a phylogenetic tree for homo sapiens, and you'll see the entire theorized lineage from some ancestral unicellular organism all the way to yourself. Of course, you could say that this is just theory, but that would be a stupid argument and I don't care for it.

Elenai said:
Inevitably, mankind is bound to having some form of Faith.
Smug proposition. It's also probably wrong: the only time in my life when I will have faith (oh come on, the whole capitalization thing is really annoying) is when I lose all reason, i.e. I am too stupid to make a rational decision. Regardless, inevitably, men are bound to do a lot of stuff; doesn't mean that what they do is necessarily right.

We do have a bigger brain though, and it's slightly more advanced than the other animals brains too.
You mean drastically more advanced.

@ Below, yeah, and memory, and the part of their brain that controls emotion and empathy is more advanced as well.
lol

Elenai said:
Until you know absolutely everything reborndevil...you will have to have some form of faith (belief in something beyond immediate knowledge). Fact.
Unlike most religious people, I don't actually need to know everything about everything, and I'm pretty happy knowing that what I know is real.
 
We do have a bigger brain though, and it's slightly more advanced than the other animals brains too.

You mean drastically more advanced.


Quote:
@ Below, yeah, and memory, and the part of their brain that controls emotion and empathy is more advanced as well.

lol

These days, almost every week new research is being published showing other animal species are much closer in intelligence to humans than we previously thought and that some are, in certain areas, even more intelligent than humans. Human brains may not be so drastically more advanced than those of cetaceans, certain primates, elephants and crows. There's no reason to lol.
 
Great, Hindyhat's broken out the long quote scrutinize thing, this is definitely going to take a downturn now with flaming.

Human brains may not be so drastically more advanced than those of cetaceans, certain primates, elephants and crows. There's no reason to lol.

I'll leave you with this: Elephants still haven't begun constructing metropolises yet (nor have they taken to the internet Flaming business - hmmmm that would be interesting getting flamed by an elephant).
 
Level 15
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
1,397
Doesn't help that my parrots are sentient...

No, seriously, they can have lengthy conversations on a variety of subjects.


And I am not talking about yes/no answers, I am talking about answers a Middle School kid would give. Complete damn sentences.

I'll leave you with this: Elephants still haven't begun constructing metropolises yet (nor have they taken to the internet Flaming business - hmmmm that would be interesting getting flamed by an elephant).

They have no thumbs.
 
But they have a very useful trunk which they've proven they can use to grasp things with, or possibly type a keyboard with. Also I'd like to see it when they finally teach Elephants algebra - being tutored by an elephant would also be pretty odd/sweet.

Doesn't help that my parrots are sentient...

No, seriously, they can have lengthy conversations on a variety of subjects.


And I am not talking about yes/no answers, I am talking about answers a Middle School kid would give. Complete damn sentences.

And destroy cameras, and threaten you, etc. etc.
 
Level 35
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
5,366
"firm belief in something for which there is no proof."

I only believe in what can be proved, I never believe in things that might be true.

Where did the (atomic singularity - matter) come from?

Do you have proof that you will live three days from now? Or do you believe you will like the majority of society?

Unlike most religious people, I don't actually need to know everything about everything, and I'm pretty happy knowing that what I know is real.

Takes faith to believe that.
 
Well with the nature of science, there is no way to actually Prove that anything is completely real - things like Gravity, we know they exist - if you drop a pen you know its going to fall - BUT, Gravity is still essentially a theory. The whole nature of science is that it can evolve, that it changes, that we can't prove anything 100% real.
 
Level 19
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1,821
Why does everything related to religion have to end up in people fighting about their opinions.
It causes wars to happen and well.. Look at this thread. People are getting offended by eachother's opinions.

I personally don't believe in any religion but I will never try to convinse people with my thoughts. That's just wrong! Very wrong! Accept other people's religions and don't try to make them look stupid just because they think like they do.

There is no point in having a topic like this here, this will only bring up drama and more drama. In the end we will all get to know 'who were right'. Christians, Muslims, Racists (lol)... Eventually you die and well.. If I end up on a cloud somewere, see a big golden chair with a certain god sitting on it, and notice I was wrong all the time then so be it. But before I die I will never get to know the answer anyway.
 
Do you have proof that you will live three days from now? Or do you believe you will like the majority of society?

It is statistically very likely that 'll be alive in three days, based on the information that I have. So it's logical to behave in a way that assumes I'll be alive. I do not know or 'have faith' that I'll be alive, though.

Oh, elaborate?
You can never truly know anything, you just assume something is true when it is likely that it is true. I can not even know for sure that I even exist, but I'm thinking, I'm sensing, I'm writing so I assume, based on the evidence that I have, that I exist. You can assume God exists, based on (very bad) evidence, you can not know that he exists.
It's common sense to believe that for which you have evidence and not believe that for which there is no evidence. And simply don't seriously believe you can answer questions that can't be answered.
 
Level 17
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
1,538
I don't know about closed, we could just be nice and talk objectivly abotu these matters.

haha.jpg

That's a good one.
 
Level 35
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
5,366
It is statistically very likely that 'll be alive in three days, based on the information that I have. So it's logical to behave in a way that assumes I'll be alive. I do not know or 'have faith' that I'll be alive, though.

In translation: You don't know for sure, so with some level of assurance, faith, and belief, based on the statistics, you believe you shall live three days from now, and stand on your faith and act as though you shall indeed live.

That is Faith...

wikipedia said:
Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, concept or thing. The English word is thought to date from 1200–50, from the Latin fidem or fidēs, meaning trust, derived from the verb fīdere, to trust.

You can never truly know anything, you just assume something is true when it is likely that it is true.

You trust that it is true, even without absolute evidence: Trust, belief...Faith.

I can not even know for sure that I even exist, but I'm thinking, I'm sensing, I'm writing so I assume, based on the evidence that I have, that I exist.

Mmmhmmn.

You can assume God exists, based on (very bad) evidence, you can not know that he exists.

You can assume that I can assume that God exists assumptively on bad evidence, and assume that I cannot know that he exists. I can assume otherwise.

It's common sense to believe that for which you have evidence and not believe that for which there is no evidence.

And simply don't seriously believe you can answer questions that can't be answered.

How did the various dimensions form? (1d, 2d, 3d, 4d, etc)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top