Heroes of might and magic

[trolman]

Well stronghold is great.

I like its barberic,desert type.I find intresting how some of their buildings are made out of bones.....i wonder whats inside.....
And I sertanly like those mountains and the desert in the background.The Blehmounts cave sure looks scary but how do the blehmounts get out?Their mage guild is also cool,I imagine an old ogre mage living there teaching all the heroes the spells he managed to guather ture the years....its a little wierd for me,what are the normal people in the town like?Are they goblins?And the Castle is super awsome.I imagine a king (human) living there and his generals-royal cyclops or whatever the upgraded cyclops were called and his guards are the hog goblins....

 

[Wazzz]

It is an awesome setting indeed :3
And the main population would be the greenskins, as the Rocs would fly about and the Cyclopes and the Behemoths would dwell primarily in their caves

I reckon from a strategic perspective, the Stronghold has some very nice attack-orientated melee units. That is, they can deal high damage and move far across the battlefield. The Hobgoblin is just nasty with its 7 Speed rating (not as fast as Sprites, but before the Conflux it was the fastest level 1 unit in the game). The Wolf Raiders are nasty too, but are nastier to have in your army as they tend to die very quickly. However, Ancient Behemoths can cover a lot of ground quite nicely and absorb a fair amount of damage all the while.

 

[Wazzz]

Then there's the Cyclopes. Easily one of my favourite units in the game for its ability to target walls in an assault when upgraded. Literally, having the Catapult ability is imba for this race, as you can fill any empty slots you have in your army with split Cyclops King groups for sieges. Very nasty stuff indeed.

The problem with the Rocs/Thunderbirds, however, is that it is the only flying unit of the Stronghold town, and is not overly defensive, leaving it vulnerable to the bulk of enemy fire. The only reason I buy their dwelling is to get Behemoths in the late game, and I prefer going for the Cyclops first for obvious reasons ;P

 

[trolman]

Sprites are weaker....and yeah the wolf riders do die first most of the time
Ogre mages are also cool with their bloodlust before they get upgraded theyre just a slow tank,but after that they become an avarage walker and caster.Orcs are also kinda cool but i dont understand how many orc tribes could be there?I mean each orc tribe has 1 orcish cheaftain.And the fact that you get like 20 a week means that there sure are a ton of orcs who you somehow dont get to see.....
Cyclops are cool but when their building gets upgraded it starts to look wierd
Behemoths are strong too but i cant remember their special skill,what was it?

 

[Wazzz]

you don't get 20 Orcs a week, you get 14 with the Castle
You only get 21 with the grail lol

Behemoths didn't have any special skill, they were just a really awesome melee unit on account of their defensive bulk, attack power AND respectable speed :3

As for the Ogre Mages, they're pretty much one of my other favourite Stronghold units (the other being the Behemoths, of course, as they're an awesome level 7 unit lol). Such a worthwhile upgrade, too. I mean, in addition to gaining the ability to cast Bloodlust, they get increased speed and +20 health (which is a HUGE jump for a level 4 unit :O). 60 Health is the most health a level 4 unit has, too, making Ogre Mages the bulkiest level 4 tank in the entire game.

 

[trolman]

They dont?Hmmm now i feel like playing WoG I will because there its kinda cooler with all the better skills,items,commanders,units and buildings.But I play it on a random generated map,so things dont get screwed up.

 

[Wazzz]

lol, one thing I like about WoG is the commander for the Stronghold. I mean, and extra Ballista for every 4 levels it gains? Hell yea!

One thing I've noticed about Rocs/Thunderbirds is that they don't seem to pose as much of a threat as most of the other level 5 units. Even Dendroids pose more of a threat with their low speed due to their ability to root enemy units to the ground. Mind you, they would probably pose more of a threat if they weren't the only flying unit of the Stronghold

As for Orcs, I like them quite a bit and try to get their numbers up as fast as possible
Goblins are awesome, too, but they can die quite easily if you're not careful with them.

What is your opinion on these units?

 

[trolman]

Rocs are the weakest ones Orcs are cool,hoggoblins look cool and evil while normal goblins look wierd and lame I liked the h2goblins too

 

[Wazzz]

H2 goblins were okay, but I MUCH prefered those Wolves XD
The Wolves in H2 were awesome with their double attack! =D
Also, as a Barbarian, the rule of thumb is that as soon as you cast something like Stone Skin on the Wolves, you're preparing for an pwning

 

[trolman]

Those cyoclopses looked funny and the trolls or was it ogres (The ones that thow rocks and live under a bridge) looked very wierd.

 

[trolman]

Those cyoclopses looked funny and the trolls or was it ogres (The ones that thow rocks and live under a bridge) looked very wierd.

 

[Wazzz]

It was the trolls that were under the bridge, yeah, they looked funky but were awesomely powerful ranged untis :3
The Ogres looked kind of funny, too, but the Orcs looked MUCH funnier XD
It's funny how the Orcs started out as 'Pigmen' in the HoMM series to become the classic Greenskin Orcs in HoMM3, reverted back to Pigmen again in HoMM IV and then, for some reason, became creatures of Demonic Descent in HoMM 5. Very strange how they used to always just be Barbaric warriors only to rip off Warcraft 3 with the idea that the Orcs are of Demon descent but are now trying to fight back against the Demons. VERY Warcraft 3-ish and unoriginal

 

[trolman]

Hmm for some reason i cant remember how the h2 ogres looked like....
Edit:Lol look what google found!

 

[Wazzz]

Awesome! =D

The Ogres are those ones with the curled horns and the axes in case you haven't recognised them yet. The ones with the blue shirts are the upgraded version (because blue pwns green).

Hmm... I'm running out of things to say about the Barbarians, so I may as well start talking about the Barbarians in HoMM 4 (seeing as how we went backwards ). I <3 the Cyclopes. Most imba unit eva. When it comes to Nomads or Harpies, I choose Harpies, but some ppl prefer the bulk of the Nomad over the mobility of the Harpy. I prefer Behemoths. How 'bout you?

 

[trolman]

Didnt we talk about h4 before?BTW today I played WoG and the PC cheated like shit!I mean he had these rogues who have 600 health and when they attack they did about 500 damage also there were these water elements with 60 health! :O

 

[Wazzz]

Rogues with 600 health??? 500 damage????? What manner of unit is this?!?! I may need to check it out :O

Yeah, we did talk about H4 before, but we could talk about it again in relation to how the races developed over time. Like, for example, how the Barbarians stayed relatively the same throughout HoMM1-3 (changing in HoMM3 slightly in terms of making the units based around the greenskin idea [which I love]), but changed dramatically in HoMM4. Returning back to the theme of 'Orcs 'n Goblins' in HoMM5, the key difference there was that they were descendents of Demons, an idea ripped off from Warcraft 3 (and one that didn't fit the Kreegan's history at all [as the Kreegan's were apparantly aliens]).

 

[trolman]

That was insane......
Ok then.I preffer the nomads becase they're stronger and faster.Not cowards who run away after they attack.

 

[Wazzz]

fair enough about the nomads being stronger, but when it comes to strategy, I don't care about who supposedly 'has more balls' lol, I care more about who can deal the most amount of damage. That is why, imo, Harpies are the better choice, because even though the Nomads obviously have much more bulk and can deal more damage in a single hit, Harpies can stay away from damage a lot better and move around the battlefield with more ease than the Nomads. Being able to retreat after attacking (which is not compulsory, I might add) makes them ideal in sieges as well because they can harass enemy ranged units at will.

One thing I hate about HoMM5 is that they used all new heroes
That is, classic Crag Hack (who survived 4 sequels) became no more. Yog (who was new in HoMM3 as far as I know, although he may be older) became no more. Anyone who we knew and loved from the HoMM series became no more -.-''

 

[trolman]

I like nomads more becase they've been in the game for h2,3,4 while the harpys were just in 3,4 plus in h4 the barbarians have a human style,their heroes are human and they've got some human units......
BTW remember sandro?He was a necromancer hero in hereos 2,then a wizard and a necromancer in heroes 3 the campaign,then you could play with him as a necromancer again in heroes 4 and in heroes 5 there was some artifact that was related to him but i cant remember which.Im not sure if he was in heroes1 tough.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, I remember Sandro =D
He was a Wizard AND a Necromancer in heroes 3? First of all, the lol factor of that is HUGE. I mean, in Heroes 2 he was a Necromancer, and then somehow he was a Wizard again in Heroes 3 only to become a Necromancer again? That is lol XD

He wouldn't have been in Heroes 1, as there was no Wizards or Necromancers back then

Btw, for the choice between Thunderbirds and Behemoths, which would you choose? I personally <3 the Behemoths for their bulk (especially considering I normally go Harpies, they complement my armies very well on the most part), but one could argue that the Thunderbirds could be more useful (although I think the exact opposite of them lol). What's your opinion?

 

[trolman]

Well first in the shadow of death campaign he was mentioned as a wizard.Then they found out the truth that he was a necromancer.
Hmmm I would go with....Behemoths becase they're much stronger.Without the lightning the thunderbirds are really weak.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, Thunderbirds aren't flash at all

Let us discuss the Barbarians of HoMM 2 now :3

Basically, Goblins were the second weakest level 1 unit in terms of health, but were quite useful in attack. However, I much prefer to focus on keeping my Wolves in tact for the late game, as they are a great full on assault unit. The Ogres are okay, I mainly use them as defense for my ranged unit(s) (most likely to be the Orcs as the Trolls are more defensive. Although I may want to have extra assurance that my Trolls don't lose too many numbers).

As far as level 6 units go, the Cyclopes is not too flash. However, this is purely because of the Well's effect (+2 to every unit means while you get 4 Cyclopes per week, you could be getting 3 Titans or Black Dragons instead. Hmm...).

Now, tell me your strats!

 

[trolman]

I havent played heroes 2 in a few years but i'll try to remember my gaming expiriance....
So the goblins were kinda nice in a fight but they were the olnly green unit well the unupgraded troll is green too but they change.
Orcs looked kinda cool,cooler than they did in heroes 4.Avarage shooters.
Wolfs looked wierd all alone without a rider,they should either be in the ramparts or natural,just doesent make sence how they're controled without having riders.
Ogres looked super wierd with the ram horns but what can you doo?They were a nice defencive uint.
Trols looked wierd and are probably the uglyest heroes 2 monster.For some reason they become brown when upgraded,the ogres do too.
Cyclopses looked ftw and gay with those skirts.But their eye beem was nice.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, the Orcs were average shooters. Always have been, always will be :3

One thing I love about the Barbarians in HoMM 2 is that, what with the superior Attack and Defense stats of the Barbarian hero type, they are super nasty when they learn stat enhancing spells. That is, imagine an already powerful army suddenly booster (no matter how temporary) by Mass Haste, or Mass Bless? That would be nasty. Nastier still is when you cast Stone Skin in your Wolves. They already hit hard and fast, but with Stone Skin they can become tank as well imo.

Okay, I'll let you start the strats talk about the HoMM 5 Stronghold

 

[trolman]

Hmm ok goblins suck -unupgraded ones are cowards,the ones who lay traps are also knida bad becase the traps dont aways work and the monsters dont really trigger them.The shamanic goblins arent that bad becase they block casters....
The Centars are super avarage....but they have a nice speed.
The warmonger guys are your basic shields/slow combat units -depends how you upgrade them
Shamans are strong units and hot chicks (these games should have more)
The cheeftains or slayers are a stronger version of the warrior thing.....
Pegasi are cool....
And cyclopses are uber esp when they trow goblins lol

 

[Wazzz]

I personally love the Shamanic Goblins, especially when (and if) they get third level Blood Rage (gives them Hexing Attack bonus :3). The only reason I get some Trappers is because I use them for their ability and sacrficing them (letting you attack with your Shamanic Goblins if you want).

I love the Maneuvre ability of the Centaurs, but it can backfire badly which is why I always play it carefully with them.

I always go Warmongers purely because the other variety of upgrade sucks balls

I agree with you entirely on Shamans, they are very powerful. I also agree that we need more hot chicks in games. Showing nipples. In lesbian scenes. That game would ROCK!

I love the Slayer upgrade (not the Chieftain) because of it's pure offense (Blood Rage makes it imperative to attack as much as possibly :3).

 

[Wazzz]

Pegasi? Lol, there are noo Pegasi!
There are Wyverns, tho, and they're not bad, but I generally don't bother with them because they don't get the Blood Rage bonus. Depends on how you want your army to work, I guess.

I <3 teh Cyclopes!
The only thing I hate about them is trying to choose which upgrade to go with lol.
I mean, I love the Untamed Cyclopes for their awesome attack, but I also love the Bloodeye Cyclopes for it's Evil Eye ability (-3 Luck on attacks + Line attack is awesome! =D).

 

[trolman]

Oh yeah they were wyrms....
Anyways the game needs more hot chicks it will be cooler if they're nude,i dont care if the y make it +80

 

[Wazzz]

lol, most definitely

So, what's your opinion on the heroes themselves in terms of the Skill Tree? I personally prefer to place an emphasis on the Morale and the Blood Rage ability, getting Leadership for Battle Elation (gives +50 Rage Points to any unit in your army that gets a morale effect) as well as Attack for Retribution (adds 5% to your creature's damage for every morale point above 0). If I chance across the Enlightenment Skill, I may go for the Bloodfire ability (increases the amount that Blood Rage increases or decreases by 150%), but it is not a necessity imo (as the loss can actually make you weaker in some instances).

Any other skills/abilities I choose are most likely going to benefit me against who my main threat is (depends on what spells they have, I may or may not go for Defense as well), but I do like to get Luck for the chance to deal bonus damage is always welcome, as well as more Magic Resistance :3

 

[trolman]

Well that kinda depends on what skills the game lets you chose from

 

[Wazzz]

that's why you make a few choices before the match
if you don't immediately go for abilities, you can wait for certain skills when you get to a certain point.
Also, there's a certain percentage chance of getting certain skills. For example, Barbarians have a 15% chance for getting the Attack skill, 10% chance of getting Leadership, 8% of getting Luck, 10% of getting Defence and 2% of getting Enlightenment (which is why I can either take or leave Enlightenment for Barbarians ). In other words, you have to consider what you will most likely get on a level up. Once you get, for example, Basic Enlightenment, you can relax a little if you were hoping for it because there will always be that chance of getting it (the skill itself is really good, Expert Enlightenment gives you +1 to all stats for every 2 levels your hero is :3).

 

[trolman]

Well yeah like getting Leadership as necromancer
But whasnt enlightenment about Mana and spells?Why do the barbarians have it?

 

[Wazzz]

Enlightenment is not anything to do with spells with the exception of Arcane Intuition, and Barbarians don't have access to that ability (as they shouldn't ). However, they are able to get the Intelligence ability to increase their mana capacity (for their Warcries) as well as Battle Lore and, of course, the afore mentioned Bloodfire.

Lol, Leadership on Necromancer = pointless
Unless, of course, you actually plan to get some living creatures in its army

The Enlightenment skill itself is to do with stat enhancement for the hero as well as improving the rate at which your hero gains levels. The skill itself is great, but the abilities you get from it are primarily horrible (especially as a Wizard... one time bonus this, temporary increment that... gay...)

 

[Wazzz]

So, what abilities/skills would you like to go for as a Barbarian? After all, you didn't give a satisfactory answer to that question before
I want your reasons, too, so we can exchange strats and crap. Also state whether you like the possibility of getting such a skill enough to go for it, or if you could take or leave a particular skill or ability but would take it if you could and such

 

[trolman]

Attaack,defence,logistics-the most common....im not good with heroes 5 :\

 

[Wazzz]

lolzorz, learning the ability chaings in heroes 5 helps a lot
For example, let's say you went the Demon Lords and you wanted to improve your Gating ability to be very potent in battle rather than just casual (as the Gating ability essentially makes the Demon Lords respectable in battle). You may notice that Swarming Gate can be very potent (chance to double the number of units gated depending on your luck), and as you get more luck it becomes more and more potent. So, you decide to go for that.

However, in order to get it, you must get the Soldier's Luck ability first. Soldier's Luck is very good to have as a Demon Lord, btw, as using Nightmares becomes very potent in battle with the chance for their battle effect increased. And basically, that's all you need in order to get Swarming Gate. There's some much more difficult to get abilities, some are worth it, most aren't

 

[Wazzz]

You can dl the Skill Wheel here for HoMM5 to help you decide what abilities you like and dislike, even if you've never seen them ingame before.

 

[trolman]

I have it.......man now that I saw the weel i feel like playing heroes 5 but i gotta study now later....
anyways when barbarian i take attack becase of things like:retribution,stuning blow and excurisating strike.Defence is nice too.Luck is good but with barbarian it doesent take you anywere.Logistics is a must have for every castle.

 

[Wazzz]

Luck for the Barbarian can get you Magic Resistance, Barbarian's Luck (more Magic Resistance) and Soldier's Luck. The Soldier's Luck might be handy for the Goblin upgrades (not too sure about that), but I'd mainly choose Luck for the chance to do bonus damage.

Logistics is okay, but doesn't really do anything much for the Barbarian sadly.

With Attack, you need Leadership in order to get Retribution. Defence would give you more Magic Resistance (if you've got Luck as well, this can serve very well against races which focus on casting), but not much else (other than Vitality). I think the Barbarians would benefit more from just getting the most basic abilities for Defense

 

[Wazzz]

Check this link out, I started a thread for HoMM V strats:

Check me out, bitch!

 

[trolman]

lol,currently im too lazy to post
and you know im not good with heroes 5

 

[Wazzz]

you may not be 'good' with heroes 5, but you have experience at the very least :3
and besides, that's what discussing the strategies is for

Like, before I found out about the 'Skill Wheel', I just went for random abilities that seemed good at the time. And by seemed good, I mean that they were abilities which required other abilities before you could get them, usually to test them out lol. But when I got wind of the Skill Wheel and dled it, I found that I could make different choices to get to certain places and such. It's not too hard when you know where you want to go

Anyway, I think we've exhausted the Stronghold race and its history (except for on that thread, I still want to talk about them in HoMM5 with you on there to get the thread rolling and to discover some new strats ;P), which race do you choose now?

 

[trolman]

Humans/knights/heaven

 

[Wazzz]

Okay! =D
Let's start from the beginning in HoMM1 and 2 (as they were essentially the same, just different graphics and no upgrades lol)

In HoMM 2, the upgrades were desparately required for this race, leading to a rather expensive race considering how weak their units are. Nonetheless, I love that the Rangers can shoot twice and come in much higher numbers than those tricksy Elves
I also didn't mind the Paladin too much, just that it is pathetically weak in terms of health and is inferior to almost every other level 6 unit ingame (is it better or worse than the Cyclopes? It's a tough decision ).

The Peasants were a pathetic joke of a unit, too. 1 Health each makes me lol histerically

Do you have anything else to add to that?

 

[trolman]

Well after alot of time playing the game I was wondering are their archers male or female?It took me along time but today i got a few pages back,looked at them and saw boobs-which makes them female.
Notice how the upgraded swordsman looks alot like a footman from warcraft.
Sadly paladins are waker than cycolpses < they should have had healing abilitys....
Peasants suck ass 1 hp?Phail,they dont even give you gold or skeletons

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, they did that first in HoMM3 with the gold and the skeletons. In HoMMIV, they somehow had as much health as a Squire (although the Squire was still much more superior in combat).

In HoMM3, the Knights joined forces with the Priests to form the race known as Castle. This race was debatably the most stable (as a childhood friend of mine would always rave about the Archangels being the best unit in the game... very debatable ), as the Pikeman offered great endurance and offense for a level 1 unit, it was just slow. Marksmen are theoretically good, but having the same health as the Pikemen makes them highly vulnerable to enemy attacks. Crusaders are one of my fav units to have in the entire game, though, as Double Strike + Great Stats = Me Very Happy :3. Royal Griffins can be nasty in swarms, Zealots are okay, Champions are great for sweeping enemy ranks and Archangels are great (not the best in terms of combat, but Ressurection makes them a good asset to have). Your opinion?

 

[trolman]

Pikemen are strong becase they have nice stats and they have an ability against the champions/cavaliers.
Archers were fine...
Griffins are a little out of place (what would they be doing with the humans?) Monks are better than archers but kinda fail at longer ranges.Riders on horses with a bounus attack per moving square I like (in all games).And archangels are the best unit towns could get.

 

[Wazzz]

They only have that ability in WoG, but it is a nice ability nonetheless

Griffins were with Humans because they were the emblem of courage and royalty for them (or is it the other way around? ). But I think they fit in with them quite well :3

Archangels aren't the best imo. I reckon they're a great level 7 unit, don't get me wrong, but I personally think that, for example, the Phoenix is better (twice the growth, best Speed ingame and automatic self-ressurection if all else fails =D). I also find the Titan and the Black Dragon to be better options, as they are both awesomely powerful. I think those units are better than Archangels.

Archers died too easily imo. They were great when they came in numbers, but if you tried to sweep across the map doing lots of battles with the same army before recruiting again, the Archers were always the first to do for me. They'd be my lowest numbers in most cases XD

 

[trolman]

Well archangles are always first so they would fly right into the titans and kill them.
AvsBDorP is really a tough one but i think that archangles would still win if its a fair fight.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, there's only one true way to test it
Basically, you set the stats of two heroes all to 0 and give them no status enhancing skills. An no artifacts. That way the units on both sides will have to win with stats and stats alone. Then stage an auto-combat battle for both heroes and see which unit prevails

So, on to HoMMIV. I found the Life race to be quite terrible when it came to mobility. The only really respectable unit in terms of that was the Angel, making any decent early scouting impossible for the poor Life race. It also meant that if a more powerful enemy army was to pursue you, you would most likely be caught :/