Heroes of might and magic

[Wazzz]

Okay, well, let's move on to another race... perhaps... THE ELVESESORZ!

Okay, the main things that have remained true about this race are:
A) Awesome ranged attack
B) Powerful attacking strength, but not so much defensively
C) Great mobility

What has changed throughout the series:
A) The final tier unit switches between Phoenixes and Dragons throughout the series, ultimately changing the strategy of the race throughout the genre (Dragons have some spell immunities while Phoenixes [after HoMM 2] can ressurect themselves upon death)
B) Dwarves originally added some bulk, but once they changed over to other races, the Elves became a little more fragile defensively but more powerful offensively

The main points of interest in HoMM 2 are that the Sprites have No Retaliation, Elves can Shoot Twice and Phoenixes f***ing pwn
Your opinionz?

 

[trolman]

Elves are probably the most balanced race,they've got powerful flyers(pixies,dragons,pegasi,pheonixses,grifins)shooters(druids,rangers)fighters(centars,bladefighters,unicorns,tigers)shields(dwarves,treants).
But they sertanly whent true a lot of changes.....

 

[Wazzz]

Yea, as the end result in HoMM 5 ended up being similar to the end result of the Dungeon in that you can't afford to lose any units in the early game (or the rest of the game for that matter, but it's an inevitibility). Also, the only real shield unit in the end result for the Elves are the Treants (which is a huge difference from HoMM2, where it was only the Dwarves). The addition of Faeries Dragons in HoMM 4 was very temporary (as that was the only series that had those dragons in the race), and it was the first and only time Wolves, White Tigers and Griffins got to be in the race themselves.

Their flyers are awesome, it is true, and they are heavily varied over the series. The Pixies were fragile but really mobile, the Pegasi were the same but on a higher level, Phoenixes were awesome and so were Dragons, Griffins were TANK and the brief but love Praying Mantis was awesomely mobile and raped the enemy's mobility =D

 

[trolman]

Dwarfs couldnt be with the elves in homm5 because it would ruin the new theme (creatures of the forest) and the dwarves are kinda like humans,i loved thier tunnels in heroes 5,but dwarves were aways lowattack shields.
And they should have saved the tigers and mantises for heroes 5,just as Neutral cretures...wait my memory is playing games on me,are there Mantises in heroes 5?Or am I wrong.

 

[Wazzz]

Mantises are not in HoMM 5 (sadly)
They were only ever in HoMM 4. So were other funky creatures like Satyrs and Waspworts (srsly, WTF are Waspworts?!?!? )

One thing I LOVED about the HoMM IV Elves was the Creature Portal. There was always the key choice between having Water Elementals or Mantises in your army (depending on whether you wanted to be might or magic orientated). I also love White Tigers (First Strike tanks, although not as tanky as Nomads they were still tanky nonetheless :3)

The Griffins fit in quite well with the Elves in HoMM IV, but I still personally think they belong to Castle for the reason of their noble background. That, and what flying unit would the Humans have without it? Besides Angels, of course

 

[trolman]

Satyrs are ftw,first they're drunk all the time but still they give army moral?Wait they durnk you army.....second they live in giant wine barrels,i mean comon!3rd They do roundkicks like Jean Claude Van Dan.Like wtf!?!?
And waspworts are like magic plants?Or a special type of plant...
Creature portal was nice esp when the enemy was going to attack you,but your hero and army are far,far away and the normal army is to weak,then if you had the gold you just buy all best units you could and whent outside the castle to kick that hero's ass.
BTW Lepricauns sucked,worst creature of the game.

 

[Wazzz]

Definitely agree with everything there

The main thing that confused me was the term 'Waspwort'. I have got to find out if that came from anywhere or if they just made the f*** up out of it

One thing I loved about doing the first mission of the Elf campaign (as I haven't done any others since then ) was that the AI didn't properly implement the use of the Creature Portals. So, if I lost a town with a Portal and captured it back after a long delay, I would find I had a sexy stock of Water Elementals waiting to do my bidding :3

 

[trolman]

Waspworts are like new type of flower that fights back,and they're very strong.

 

[Wazzz]

Waspworts weren't overly strong (considering they are, after all, meant to be level 3 units). Their attack was sort of handy, but I would definitely choose Water Elementals or Praying Mantises over them any day

Actually, those are the only two conventional choices from the Creature Portal according to the strats I've read up on (Water Elementals for super special awesome casting abilities and Praying Mantises for super special awesome speed attack strats).

What units would you pick from the Creature Portal?

 

[trolman]

first water,fire,mantises(if i have left over cash) and earth elementals if i bought all the mantises and still have money and maybe even after all of that the waspworts.Screw lepricauns,satyrs and wind elementals.

 

[Wazzz]

That's impossible
Primarily because the growth for every unit from the Creature Portal is the same (as in if you purchase all the Mantises, that is the equivellant of purchasing all of every unit, but only getting the unit you chose )

That's why the choice between Water Elementals and Mantises must be made, primarily based on what your enemy has. If they aren't Magic Resistant, you will want to go for all out Caster strats (i.e. Water Elementals and Faeries Dragons, probably Unicorns if they're effected by Blind). Otherwise, you'll want to go for ultimate power (Phoenixes, Mantises, Griffins, White Tigers).

One thing I've noticed in all the strats I've read, btw, is that it is always recommended to NEVER take level 1 units into a battle against the Death race

 

[trolman]

I still take them but if the army of the necromancer is stronger and you lose,you shouldnt have had got them because they're free vampires.

 

[Wazzz]

Yea, Vampires are the main reason for not taking in level 1 units (as they will act as a free First Aid Tent for them). Unless, of course, you have Skeletons as your level 1 unit

The main problem with choosing a set early game is not knowing what you're opponent is going for in enough time to counteract it. Also, the strats I read up on were kind of laughable as they're suggesting what spells to learn. Like you have a choice!

All the same, they have some very interesting tips :3

For example, have you noticed how one of the greatest anti-magic races (Barbarians, of course ) became the weakest race to deal with magic ever? Hell, the best you can do for the Barbarians is give the heroes Grandmaster Magic Resistance and hope for the best

 

[trolman]

Yes but the skill counts for the hero olnly so if you're up against lots of Genies and golems you are dead,because the genies will kill the rest of the army and the golems will kill you.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying is the problem with Might.
If they had a completely unique skill set (kind of like how they're the only race able to get the Barbarian class hero from their conventional Tavern) which made their units Magic Resistant (but not themselves so they could still learn it from the Combat set), that would probably be better. Hell, even if they had a unique set which was designed purely to make Magic Resistance effect all units in the hero's army in addition to the normal Combat attributes, that would be great

How do you think they should have made the Might race more anti-magic?

 

[trolman]

Well kinda like that disruptor building,exept you could upgrade it like the magic guilds.There should also be artefacts that give resistance to the entire army.Skills on the other hand cant be made because in h4 all the skills were the same for all the heroes wich was kinda nice.(no more racial abilitys)

 

[Wazzz]

Disruptor building, eh? Was that in HoMM IV? I can't remember, but I think it was.

I like your idea of the Mages Guild thing, btw =D

Although, that would be impossible in retrospect on account of the way it functions. That is, the effect is cumulitive for every town you have. You'd get to a certain point in your town when you didn't need to build any more towers :/

 

[trolman]

well the towers would be very expencive.....

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, I thought of that too, but still... I reckon that the Barbarian units should probably have some magic wards as abilities or something. Or better yet, perhaps the Barbarians could cast those on them and learn those 'spells' from their own Mage Guild-ish building

What do you think? :3

 

[trolman]

They couldhave had shamanistic spells....

 

[Wazzz]

That could have been nice. Even though that would probably require a new moveset (most likely unique to the Barbarians, too)... DAMMIT! I think that, considering the circumstances, 3DO did it right!

There MUST be a way to make the Might race more anti-magic! Let's keep brainstormin'

 

[trolman]

They should have added more spells for the Ogre Mage,that way they would be more used and the race wont be so weak against magic when they have magic.

 

[Wazzz]

True... like if the Ogre Mage had some Counter-Magic spells, too =D

 

[trolman]

Thats too overpowered maybe the barbarians should have had some basic spells.Or maybe it should be just left as it is,i mean their troops are the strongest of the game!

 

[Wazzz]

Well, with the exception of the Chaos units...
Mind you, they do get their extra growth as well

I think the main issue is that their focus is no longer on countering magic as opposed to outnumbering and overpowering the opponent, a fact that lots of people obviously didn't comprehend immediately when choosing the race

 

[trolman]

meducas and black dragons are the olnlything from Chaos thats stronger than might

 

[Wazzz]

You seem to forget Nightmares

Mind you, Cyclopes' are the best ranged unit ingame. I just find it hilarious that one is asked to choose between the best ranged unit in the entire game (with the exception of the Gargantuan, but honestly, those are incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to get in the metagame) and the Ogre Mage, possibly the worst level 3 unit in the entire game

Btw, one thing I love about Might is their Berserkers. Using those in the early game and then saving them up for the late game can make them very effective in early creeping (as you don't really care about losing them, and nor do they ) and lategame sieging (double strike on castle walls, the enemy is forced to shoot them first, very nice :3).

 

[trolman]

Still their fear isnt purmement and they cant cast it forever.....
but cyclopses are win against the other units.I gues someone would chose the ogres if they dont have the resources to build the cyclops building,or the player is a newb or the pc just doesent realise the unbalance or maybe the building is disabled.
Nah they die to fast and usually they get ownd.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, Ogre Mages are the sort of unit I'd get to insult the opponent's lack of skill lol

One tip for using Nightmares. Whenever you can, split them up to fill all the empty slots in your hero's army. Using them this way increases the effectiveness of their Terror ability =D
Unless you're dealing with the Undead, of course lol

But I reckon that Nightmares would rape Cyclopes' in a head-on-head battle, because the Nightmares would use Terror, then close the distance on the Cyclopes', exploiting the Cyclopes' weakness in melee.

 

[trolman]

maybe but olnly if its 1 on 1 and the numbers are the same

 

[Wazzz]

Well, not only if it's 1 on 1. Don't forget that in larger battles, the main focus of the Chaos army would be the Cyclopes. This presents a problem for the Might player in terms of that, especially if they were really relying on those Cyclopes in order to win.

Furthermore, Medusae would be able to single down lots of the Might units with relative ease. The Hydras would be the better choice here, and those would be able to hold all the melee units of the Might race pretty well, causing maximum damage by being in the center of the enemy.

On the other hand, Bandits are a pathetic addition to the Chaos army when in combat, and the Breeding Pens will ultimately ensure that the Might race does overpower the enemy in sheer numbers if all else fails. So, while the Chaos race may be able to gain an early upperhand on the Might race, they may only end up breaking even with all the additional kills they get, depending on the numbers.

 

[trolman]

The nomads with their first strike thing in large number would be a big problem for the nightmares,breserkers will pwn the orcs and bandits and the centar will shoot the enemy fomr ashort range then attack mele,plus the Thunderbird (wich would be better in this case) will lightning the shit out of the medusae,and dont forget that the might heroes are usually very strong.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, but also don't forget that the Sorcerer's can learn a variety of spells, one of them being Mass First Strike.

And also don't forget that the Might race has lost a lot of its anti-magic appeal, and therefore the more damaging spells which are common within the Chaos race will help to turn the tides of the battle significantly.

Btw, Harpies are apparantly the better choice for Might when encountering the Chaos race due to their better mobility (and no doubt their Strike And Return ability will come into play here, too).

Another thing we have overlooked is the Confusion spell, which will ultimately f*** up the Cyclopes for the Might race.

Also, Black Dragons (according to the tactics I am reading atm) are the better choice, as they can counteract the mobility of the Thunderbirds and then move onto the Cyclopes.

 

[Wazzz]

But this is where it's difficult to say which race would have a better chance of survival, due to the vast differences in the races themselves.

I have a difficult choice here as I like both the Might race AND the Chaos race

 

[trolman]

i like them both too but i think i like chaos more

 

[Wazzz]

I also like Nature lolzorz
I reckon Nature could beat Might with relative ease (as opposed to other races, with the obvious exception of Order). That is because of their caster combo (Water Elementals and Faerie Dragons) being very potent against the Might race.

Who do you reckon would win out of those 2 races?

 

[trolman]

Nature ofc,they could have the elves and their hundreds of arrows or the mighty tigers who match even the nomads.The Griffins and unicorns would either fly and attack the cyclops so they cant shoot,or blind them so they cant do annything.But centars and breserkers > pixies and wolves.So yeah nature will win.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I reckon that the Unicorns would help attempt to gain an upperhand on the Cyclopes
As for the Tigers, I think they may be slightly weaker version of the Nomad, but I haven't really compared their stats side by side, just their health values and their abilities
Elves would probably be an unwise choice as the Cyclopes would quite possibly pwn them quite easily (especially if they're grouped with your hero, for example, or other units of the like).

In my opinion, the main strength of the Barbarian race derives from the Barbarian heroes themselves. After all, they start off with 1 more skill than any of the other heroes

And don't forget that if the Might player has any skill, they will protect their Cyclopes' from Unicorn attacks and the likes.

But the main weakness would be Faerie Dragons and Water Elementals for Might

 

[trolman]

well if i remember correctly tigers had 35 and the nomads 55 plus the nomads were faster and their first strike was somehow before that of the tiger.
But then the griffin could fly and bother the cyclopses so the elves can shoot in peace.

 

[Wazzz]

The Nomads had 45 health, but I'm not sure who was faster (although I'd put my money on Nomads as well)
The Griffin's ability to fly could bother the cyclopses more than the Unicorns, but don't forget that the Unicorns come in higher numbers and can Blind (although the Griffins Unlimited Retaliations ability is godly when combined with their stats :3)

 

[Wazzz]

Faerie Dragons and Water Elementals, as I've mentioned before, would cause the most problems for the Might race, though. That is, Fire Ring would be destructive for when they keep their units clumped together while Lightning and Ice Bolt would really help in destroying single targets like the Cyclopeses. Oh, and I think the Water Elemental knows Song of Peace, but I'm not so sure about that. In any case, Quicksand is a very useful ability for keeping the Might melee creatures at bay :3

I'd probably have to go with Tigers to counteract Nomads, but if the Might player knows you're Nature, they'd prlly go with Harpies for the added mobility to their army. Still, I reckon White Tigers would be a better choice, but I'm not too sure

 

[trolman]

Nah you need the elves and their shooting skills,otherwise you dont have any archers at all,and you need them when the mana from the casters dissapears.

 

[Wazzz]

Actually, White Tigers are preferable against the Might race over Elves. Imo, White Tigers are better than Elves in a lot of circumstances, as ranged units are not a necessity in all battles (especially when your hero is the Archer ). White Tigers are, for example, preferable against Harpies. Quick Sand will help deal with Nomads.

Don't forget that relying on a single ranged unit can lead to you being easily beaten by a suitable counter (for example Harpies, Cyclopes and Thunderbirds would be at the Might races' disposal to rape the Elves).

Btw, it appears that Mantises are preferable over Water Elementals for the reason of most Barbarian heroes having 50-100% Magic Resistance. Also, Dragon Strength on the Mantises is apparantly a great way to deal with the Barbarian heroes early on =D

 

[trolman]

You're totaly right,altough i never found quick sand to be useful.

 

[Wazzz]

Quick Sand can be useful, as it can be used to block the enemy's path, but it doesn't completely stop them (just slows them down very well ). I use it quite a bit when I have it, especially when I have Water Elementals as well as a hero capable of casting it

Hmm... I find the problem with the Nature race is the level 1 units. I mean, you have the Sprites which don't really deal much damage at all and are only really useful for causing a little extra damage aside from what you're dealing already. As for Wolves, their Double Strike ability is awesome, but they die so easily (and are, as far as I know, more pricey to maintain than Berserkers, all for the purpose of being able to control them :/)

 

[trolman]

Nature has probably the worst level 1 units,and thats counting the super mega awsome 1337....Lepricauns.........xD

 

[Wazzz]

lol! Leprechauns are Super Special Awesome :3

Well, let's not forget there is still the Death level 1 units (Imps and Skeletons) which are both physically weak, although the Imps are made redeemable because they can sap mana from enemy heroes and caster units, and the Skeletons are worthy because of Necromancy

Hmm... speaking of Death... =D
Who would win out of Might and Death? Providing that Might, of course, doesn't bring in any level 1 units
I reckon Might would probably gain some upperhand on Death through sheer power, although Vampires always cause problems (which is why no level 1 units for Might ). I reckon Might would probably go for Nomads, Cyclopes (duh ) and Behemoths for sheer power against the Necropolis combo.

Well, apparantly the reccomended set for Might involves the more mobile Harpies & Thunderbirds combo

 

[trolman]

Imps are fast and drain mana,skeletons are good antiarrow shields and are unefected by poision and suff,that makes them better over the Nature,oh and they have zombies too.
Hmm good point but depends on the armys them selves,if i was the Death I'd pick the 3headed dogs because they can attack a few enemys at once (like the hydras) and have no realation to attacks.I hate ghosts....
Then ofc I'd pic vampires,and Devils (because they summon ice elementals)The Death race will also cast nasty spells on might and will summon deamons to the rescue.

 

[Wazzz]

One thing I read about in terms of Death VS Might is that it's very hard to choose between the Vampires and the Venom Spawns. That is, the Vampires are always useful when they can steal health off of the enemy units, but Venom Spawns can absolutely devastate the enemy with their Poison ability. I'd probably go with Venom Spawns in this battle so I can have a powerhouse ranged unit :3

I do love Devils, but one shouldn't completely dismiss the use of Bone Dragons. I'd actually probably pick Bone Dragons in this battle for one reason - Cyclopeses. The Skeletal ability will resist their ranged attacks, and the Bone Dragon will have a chance of using Fear to move the units defending the Cyclopeses.

Btw, choosing Vampires would be a very wise decision (this can possibly apply to any battle really, but especially here for dealing with Berserkers ) if you have Disruption Ray. That way, Berserkers will fall much more easily to your Vamps :3

 

[trolman]

What about Death vs Order
i hate both of the 1st level order units,they're very weak and slow,exept for the dwarves who have big hp and magic resistans,otherwise they suck.
Order better pick Golems because the vampires or venom spawns would tottaly pwn the mages,same thing for Titans or mechaincal dragons.Death could pick 3headed dogs again,and both of the Venom and Vampires would kinda be weakened by the fact that they're fighting machines (no poison or regeneration).Oh and imps would soo steal the mana from the genies so they better pick Nagas,what do you think?