Heroes of might and magic

[trolman]

We talked about and 4,5.........So lets just talk about 2,3 wich castle is next......wizards!

 

[Wazzz]

We talked about 5 for Knights? I don't recall it, but I'm sure there wouldn't be too much else to cover anyway

Okay, Wizards, lemme see... the HoMM2 Wizards were a fun race to play, such a random collection of creatures in that race
For example, you would get Halflings and then Boars (oh teh noes, Boars!). The Rocs were comical as they were another addition to the race which I did not understand. Titans rule, but apparantly the Black Dragon holds the title as the strongest HoMM2 unit (I read about a whole test on that comparing the two ).

In HoMM3 I think the race became much nicer in terms of unit relations. There was a very nice theme to them in the end :3
Master Gremlins were great to get early game (earliest shooter ever ), but they were terrible in the late game. Which is why a transition to focusing on Titans is required

 

[Wazzz]

I find that Master Genies are great when you split them throughout your army in stacks of 1 (to emphasise their random blessing ability). Nagas are awesome to me.
I love how bulky the Iron Golems are, but hate their low speed. With Haste, though, they are power! :3
Archmages are pretty standard, Gargoyles are mediocre but get the job done... your opinions on the two generations?

 

[trolman]

Heroes 2 was wierd in it the mages were in some barren type of town but they didnt have the arabic style of the ones in the 5th.(wait we didnt talk about them )
Anyways halfings are a little wierd for me becase what incommon do they have with the wizards?Nothing really.Boars were also wierd,they belong to the ramparts .The Golems were slow and had crappy attack they also looked like the tincan man from Wizard of Oz .....now i kinda see the connection becase its a wizard,so the authors tought to make that referance.Mages were better and Titans are win.

 

[trolman]

Now moving on to h3
Gremlins are nice archers and it makes sence why they fight for the wizards,becase gremlins are slaves.
Gargoyles are also nice and have sence-becase they were created by the wizards unlike the boars and rocs how dont really have connection.
Golems are nice but i think that rock is stronger than metal .In wog you can upgrade them into gold and diamond golems :3
Mages.....well yeah......
Genes were wired becase unupgraded they're girls,upgraded they're men.....ftw...they also die pritty fast.
Nagas should have an attack like the hydras have becase they've got alot of arms.
Titans are aways win,in every game exept the 5th were they screwed them up.(notice how gayly the heroes 5 titans look)

 

[Wazzz]

So, in HoMM3, what strategy would you go for in terms of the units? For example, I reckon upgrading the Gremlins on the first turn would create a decent advantage for creeping early game. I also reckon that speed teching to Nagas would be great if you have Tactics, or Genies to cause a lot of early havoc could be quite effective. I'll look up some pro strats and post what I can find

 

[Wazzz]

Okay, I found something of interest from a fellow who calls himself 'Frank':

The most amazing damage though comes from Master Gremlins if you ask me. Try this: 100 master gremlins with 6 individual master genies. If you are lucky in the spell order you can produce over 2500 damage

Hint: all spells that increase your defense have to come before frenzy, like stone skin and prayer. Add to that precision, bless, bloodlust...

Week 2 Jenova level 5 can kill throng mighty gorgons with a lasting long enough mass slow !

...and that's pretty much it. Sounds interesting that 100 Master Gremlins can deal 2500 damage, although tactically speaking you could lose your Master Genies pretty damn easily, and if the enemy does attack your Master Gremlins, you can get screwed over big time

 

[trolman]

2500 just from a 100 master gremlins?HOW?!?!?

 

[Wazzz]

Well, upon further reading of the article, it's apparantly impossible. See, the Master Gremlin apparantly initially deals 3-5 damage. That alone has a maximum damage rating of 500. Even with Bless, Precision and god knows what else, I don't think it's entirely possible without a hero that has an insanely high attack rating, Master Archery and Gremlin Specialist as an ability. I'll have to find that thread again

Well, while we discuss HoMM3 tactics for the Tower, might as well go on to the Order race in HoMM4
Basically, I found the race to offer some very interesting choices for units. First off, you could choose between the incredibly slow-but-bulky Gold Golems, or the magic-wielding Mage. I used to always go for the Mage, but it seems to be such a poor choice on the most part because:
A) 16 Health is pathetic, and
B) It doesn't sport any outstanding spells, unlike the Genie

 

[Wazzz]

So, my typical choice would prlly be the Gold Golem (unless I can take advantage of spell-spamming the enemy ). Then there's the Genie or the Naga. Imo, the Naga sucks in this title, so I typically go with the Genie. Cloning the enemy's most powerful units is always hilarious (unless it happens to be a Black Dragon. Then it's not so funny ).

Then is a choice between the Dragon Golem and the Titan. I usually prefer the Titan, but it can more than often be difficult to get the Gems to fund them. However, if you do have the Gems, make them your choice

Your opinions?

 

[trolman]

Well golems are a much better choise cuz they're stronger than mages.
Pick the genies because of their frost arrow which in great numbers becomes very powerful.Titans are better but as you said there isnt always enough gems but they're worth it.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, in some cases Mages are a better choice than the Gold Golems. Primarily when you're dealing with an opponent which you know can't handle spell damage. But one thing to keep in mind when using the Mages is that you will not have a terrific frontline defence for them, making it seem somewhat pointless getting them anyway

As for the Genies, I like their Frost Arrow, but much prefer to cast Illusion (as stated before) on the most powerful unit (even your own when you get Titans :3) as you can then increase their numbers simply by cloning your Clone (lol paradox bug )
As far as casters in the game go, Genies appear to be the best (although I have not ever used the Evil Sorcerers yet, although they only have 100 health, keeping in mind they are level 4 units )

 

[trolman]

I'll still go for genies because they come in bigger numbers and are easy to acces.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, true that.
Okay, on to HoMM5

I find that Master Gremlins with Golems are very nice indeed, as you can heal your Golems when they take too much damage using your Master Gremlins ability :3
I don't really care much for the Gargoyles other than using them as walls (as that's all they can be used for tbh), but they do that very effectively.
Mages are very powerful offensively, but defensively they are horrible (well, duh )
D'Jiins feel kind of pointless, while Rakshasas are pretty mean in combat.
Titans in this title aren't as epic as they used to be. Shame, really, but what can you do, eh?

 

[Wazzz]

As for the heroes themselves, the key ability for the Wizards is Artificer. The higher your skill in creating artifacts, the better your army will be. I read a whole list of suggestions for what to put on your units (for example, masses of endurance based abilities on the Mages and Armour Breaker on the Golems), but I can't remember much about it. It was on Celestial Guardians, if you're interested.

You're opinion?

 

[trolman]

I prefer the sabotage gremlins,they're very usefull during seiges (blocking the catapult)And if you have a strong enough army and you've taken out the enemy's archers then the battle is yours.(well unles the hero is very strong)
Gargoyles suck,they've ruined them in this game.
Golems are a little better but they're slow as before.....
Mages,mages are WIN!Very strong units this time.The olnly bad thing is that the if you're not careful the unupgraded ones will kill your troops.
D'Jiins got weaker this time.(random cast spell isnt as good as it used to be)
Those cat things with the arms are strong but i prefer the Naga (cuz of the boobs lol)
Titans...well they look like fags in this game

Never really tested that ability,either didnt have enough resources or enough gold or time or army to really use it :\

 

[Wazzz]

Well, one thing to remember when using the Artificer ability is that order matters. That is, you might have a particular combination of abilities you want to have on a particular unit stack. Unfortunately, you cannot afford it. However, if you change the order of the abilities around (from the first to the second, for example), you may actually end up being able to afford that particular combination after all.

The ability is also the key to playing as the Academy successfully. Without it, the units tend to suck. You could even make Gargoyles a slightly respectable attack unit with the right stat boosts :3

 

[trolman]

Gargoyles good?THATS IMPOsSIBLE!They're soo weak and annoying......... they even make me cry.

 

[Wazzz]

I'll look up some more strats, though. Do you have any ideas? What would you go for in a hero? I'd probably choose the Golem Specialist (as Golems are win in this title), but I don't really play as the Academy (I find them to be gay and annoying ). The main reason for going that hero is because you can really max out the potential of your Golems (using the various abilities dedicated to them solely and such).

PS: I fucking hate this character limit, fucking hell...

 

[Wazzz]

lol, Gargoyles do suck
But they also absorb a shitload of damage. Very effectively. It's about all they do tho, lol.

However, if you can increase their damage output to be higher than 1-1, you could actually get them to add some decent damage to their awesome defense. Or you could just break even lol. I've never tried it before tbh

 

[Wazzz]

Hmm... is there anything more to discuss on this race? If not, I would like to suggest that we move on to the fearsome Warlock race!

This race throughout all the generations has been renowned for its power and its expense. Back in the days of HoMM2, they sported the only unit that could be upgraded 3 times. Throughout the generations, their Dragons have always been rightfully feared, as well as most of their other units (gargoyles and griffins in HoMM1 and 2 were especially nasty due to flyers being able to travel across the entire battlefield).

 

[Wazzz]

So, in HoMM2, most of the units that the Warlock could acquire did not require upgrades. Those that did benefitted tremendously from the upgrade. Hydras were VERY slow, but with Haste they would become VERY FUCKING OP. And while you tried to get your Hydras in close proximity of another enemy unit, you could harass them with your 3 different flyer stacks, or your tier 1 ranged unit. Minotaurs were powerful, too, and a true asset to the Dungeon race across all of the series. Your opinion?

 

[trolman]

Hydras did suck alot back then,even with haste.Griffins and gargoyles do belong to the warlocks not the humans and wizards.Centars suck,and the fact that they were the olnly shooter the castle had,failed alot.The Dragons were also really expensive so you couldnt count on them much too,minotaurs are your army's backbone because they are strong and loyal (never switched towns)..

 

[Wazzz]

Minotaurs are truly epic :3

Which brings me nicely to the HoMM3 Dungeon town. I find Troglodytes to be truly epic in numbers and stats (considering how many you get per hero, especially the Trog Specialist hero). Upgrading them on the first turn makes them very powerful, epsecially when you split them into 1 unit stacks in your hero's ranks.

Harpies are okay, 1-4 damage is nice when Bless is used on them, but horrid when Curse is used. Evil Eyes and Medusae are nasty when they grow in numbers. When it comes to Minotaurs or Manticores, a choice must be made early on in the game depending on what resources you get. If I have the option, though, I would go for Minotaurs first, as they are very nasty in high numbers.

Dragons do not need to be upgraded (primarily if you have Ressurect), but if you're dealing with a spell-spammer enemy, the upgrade is your best friend.

 

[Wazzz]

Now for a quick detail on a strategy I read about and tried out recently (with great results).

On Crimson and Clover (a medium sized map with Underground passages that lead you to two Fortless towns and 3 hard-to-reach areas with Gold Mines and a powerful artifact on each one), I chose Gunnar (a very imba hero which is allowed if Log-born heroes aren't banned). Gunnar specializes in Logistics, and starts with Basic Tactics. This is great for maneuvering Trogs early on in creeping raids (I killed a LOT of units so early on in this map in particular, giving me access to almost all of my nearby mines within the first week).

 

[Wazzz]

Even though I had bad luck with skills (in the form of a Scholar and a Witches Hut giving me skills like Necromancy and Navigation [and no, I wasn't playing WoG ]), Gunnar proved to be very worthwhile with Expert Tactics, Expert Logistics and his Logistics boost based on his level (+5% to the skill for every level is POWER!). He also got an artifact which increased his movement over land. In other words, I could traverse the entire width and/or height of the map in little more than 2 turns.

Needless to say, using a combination of Evil Eyes, Medusa Queens, Minotaur Kings, Scorpicores and Black Dragons, I brought the enemy to justice :3

Your opinion?

 

[trolman]

Well i always loved the trolglodytes are nice,they should have stayed in heroes 5 atleast as creeps in the dungeons.
Harpies i never like
evil eyes are weak in hp but not so bad units in general
Medusas are cool cuz they're strong and they can stone the enemy.
Minotaurs....win altough a little slowwhen un upgraded.
Those fked up beasts....the bad,lion,scorpion mix are well yeah not bad but.........a little useless becase the dungeon allready has enough flyers (wtf they're supposed to be underground???)
And dragons are super nice,you could upgrade them if you really need to(fighting against the magic based towns)

 

[Wazzz]

Evil Eyes are actually pretty decent in HP for a level 3 ranged unit, considering the other options for such units are Elves (15 HP), Orcs (15-20 HP) and Ice Elementals (30 HP). Evil Eyes have 22 HP, which is more than the ranged level 3 units of the conventional races and more than the Serpent Flies and Wights (which isn't hard to beat, but hey). They also have more growth than Ice Elementals (and Ice Elementals have a lower damage minimum), but Ice Elementals are prlly the only thing that truly outshines them (although Evil Eyes do have No Melee Penalty as an ability :3). So essentially, Evil Eyes are kind of bulky ranged units (not as bulky as Ice Elementals, but still )

Tactically speaking Scorpicores can be a better option than Minotaur Kings early game, but with Expert Tactics, the Minotaur King can be set up to attack anyone you want on the first move :3
But if the enemy also has Tactics of some level, you may want the extra mobility of a Dragon in your army
Or Haste

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I just played a WoG match as Necropolis, and it was lol
Ended up with full exp on most my units (pretty much all except for my Blood Dragons, but they weren't too far behind either ), yet I got thwarted by the Griffin King's 10k+ Royal Griffins... they were far too powerful for my entire army lol

 

[trolman]

It seems in wog that the PC cheats like a dirty mother fker.....but atleast was the game fun?

 

[Wazzz]

yea, until I realised that I went over the save accidentally (as I was using AUTOSAVE for almost all of the time ). That pissed me off XD
But the game itself was hilariously fun :3
Fucking Royal Griffins, tho, how I hate them...

One thing which irritates me about some of the unit abilities, tho, is there's always a temptation to not upgrade your units, you know? For example, if you upgrade to Halberdiers as the Castle, you get Fearless at a higher level. However, if you stick with Pikemen, you can get a 2-hex attack XD
So unfair when you've already upgraded and you just notice that
Should be an option to unupgrade your units, what do you reckon? :3

 

[trolman]

Still to unlock those abilitys your monsters must have alot of XP and pikemen are 1st level so they die fast and come in great numbers every week,so you really dont have a choise

 

[Wazzz]

yea, but what I'm talking about is an option to un-upgrade units in the WoG mod. Would be a great addition if they could do it (which I don't doubt they could, just coming up with a method of making it fair would be a little tricky prlly )

Okay, we were talking about... Dungeon! Let's move on to HoMM IV for Dungeon
The Chaos race used the 'Asylum', and instead of Warlocks they had Sorcerers, but other than that it was easy to tell that the race was the same as always. How? Minotaurs lol

 

[Wazzz]

When it came to the unit choices, I would prlly prefer Medusae (unlimited shots, chance to kill extra units on attacks, very nice indeed :3) over Minotaurs, I definitely prefer Nightmares over Efreets (Only the Efreets abilities save it from being a horrible unit ) and the choice between Hydras and Black Dragons is tough. However, I'd prlly go with Black Dragons if I were to go with this combination for added mobility in my army (as the Nightmares will be the bulk, so a Hydra would be too slow in comparison. Need to be able to sweep the enemy with something, you know? )

Your choices?

 

[trolman]

I use medusaes too but if i have a secon town i build minotaurs (so i can have both of these units in my ranks)Nightmares are better because they're stronger and they've got the Fear Ability.Efreets suck....but are hard if you fight agains them.And the last choice between Hydras and Black Dragons depends on your income,if you can support BlackDragons then buy them.But if its a small map with not alot of resources and if the enemy is strong,comes in great numbers that you need a powerful army fast so you buy hydras.I think im gonna go play WoG now........

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I've been reading up some strats for the Chaos race in HoMM IV, and found some very interesting points. Here's a link:

Click me plox :3

It appears that the only case in which it is reccomended to use Minotaurs over Medusae is when you're dealing with the Undead variation of the Death race. The Medusae's attacks aren't as effective against them because they are Undead and some are Skeletal or Insubstantial (as you will read soon enough, anyway), but Minotaurs have a chance to block the Vampire's Life Drain attack and are good Defenders.

When it comes to Efreet, it appears they are only really chosen when high Mobility is required on the battlefield, as they can be devastating to enemy ranged units when used correctly.

 

[Wazzz]

As for the choice between Black Dragons and Hydras, Hydras are only used in two situations, on of them being circumstansial. The main problem with Hydras is their susceptibility to magic attacks, but they can be very useful against armies that don't rely on spells

I think Hydras would cost more income overall than Black Dragons, btw, as they have double production and would prlly cost a little more than half of what a Black Dragon costs (resulting in them costing a little bit more )

Also, the rule is that Nightmares f***ing rock :3

 

[trolman]

But if they're expensiver shouldnt that mean that they come in bigger numbers and are therefor stronger?

 

[Wazzz]

Like I said, it depends on what you want. I'll draw up a quick comparison between the two units:
1) Black Dragons are more mobile than Hydras
2) Black Dragons are spell immune
3) Black Dragons can attack enemy units in a line while Hydras can attack all adjacent enemy units
4) Black Dragons can fly (possibly comes under Mobility, tho)
5) Hydras do come in higher numbers, but may work out to either cost the same or even more than the Black Dragons in total

...so, the Spell Immunity and added mobility makes Black Dragons a great choice in most circumstances when mobility is called for, but Hydras can be used to devastate enemy unit stacks very well and are a little more accessable than Black Dragons if Sulfur is hard to come by (which it shouldn't be if you scouted it out properly using Bandits).

Like I said, this is a tough choice. Which one would you generally pick, tho?

 

[trolman]

Black Dragons duh but olnly if i can support them.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, let's move on to HoMM V

The Dungeon race of HoMM V is pretty true to the whole power theme, but it is my opinion that this applies to the strategy even more so than the Dungeon race of any of the previous titles. While in previous titles you could afford to lose Centaurs, Troglodytes and Orcs, in HoMM V you can't afford to lose any units in the early game. You must maintain all of your low level units as they come in incredibly low numbers.

The main points of interest are the Minotaur Taskmaster (has Aura of Bravery, a nice addition to any army), Blood Maidens (Strike and Return is always nice, but now it's actually on a powerful unit :3) and Witches (especially if you go the hero that specializes in them =D).

 

[trolman]

Well thats because Dungeon is a pritty strong race,they've got the scouts (best 1st level unit cuz they can shoot) a pritty nice level 2 those maidens who attack and run for close combat and minotaurs for shields and slow fighters.But i never really understoon how the unit auras in the game work....

 

[Wazzz]

The unit auras work in effecting only the units surrounding the unit with the aura. I think it says in the description for all auras that it only effects them within 1 square of the aura unit. Which isn't terrificly great (could have effected all units on the battlefield, for example, to make it more useful ).

However, the Taskmaster has Aura of Bravery, giving a bonus to morale, making it a better shield unit than the more agressive alternative upgrade

Do you often use the Sacrifice Unit option to boost the unit growth of the Blood Maidens and the Minotaurs? When I get those Riders (as I don't really use them) I sacrifice them, but it doesn't do too much. Random creeps that join can help in that department, but ultimately you have to sacrifice your army units to get any real effect, which isn't too efficient in the end :/

 

[trolman]

so the auras do suck just as I tought
I sacrafice olnly when i get unneaded monsters that join or if i have a building thats not dungeon.I really wouldnt waste my own army because like you said earlyer,you need every single monster.The idea is kinda stupid too i mean kill a dragon to get +1 minotaur ftw?!?!?so yeah........

 

[Wazzz]

lol, kill a dragon to maybe get +1 minotaur is more like it
It is retarded that they have that option considering how long it takes to get any decent growth bonuses for a race that is heavily dependent on each and every unit being cherished from the word go, but the one unit from my Dungeon town I will usually sacrifice will be the Dark Riders ('cause I think they're gh3y ).

Mind you, if I do capture another town, the resourceful side of me would like to actually build a force up for them for defensive purposes

It seems that the only real way to get a decent growth bonus out of that building is to sacrifice everything you build lol

What else would you like to say about the Dungeon race in HoMM V?

 

[trolman]

They have elemental chanes?

 

[Wazzz]

True! But I never truly learnt how to use them properly. Mainly because whenever I tried to use it, the effect was incredibly weak (probably due to the fact it was early game, but meh ). Do you know how to use Elemental Chains effectively? :3

 

[trolman]

well kinda lets say your assasians are marked as fire and you decide to attack some peasants who are marked as water,then you would do some bounus damage to the peasants.

 

[Wazzz]

How fire does bonus damage to water, I will never know, but that appears to be the way Ubisoft decided to make them...

Yea, I know they do some bonus damage, but as for using the Elemental Chains to great effect (i.e. knowing which units to choose what element for and crap like that), I am at a loss. Although I could always figure it out some day if I really wanted to

I personally find other racial abilities (such as Gating or Blood Rage) to be much better than Elemental Chains imo, but I suppose they have their place

So, what abilities and such improve the Elemental Chains racial ability?

 

[trolman]

I dont really know,i havent played with warlock in a loong time.