• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Hate dota?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 24
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
3,563
Why I hate dota. . . THe list goes on.

They rip off spells without giving credit.
The game is only O.K.
AOTZ > DOTA (by far) Hell, even AOM > DOTA (yet again by far)
Boring Heros!
Takes up space on B.Net which could be filled with deliciously good games like, AOTZ of Warlocks or something decent.
No unique twist. BORING!
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
This thread really needs finishing; so all in all, I'm going to waste a few minutes of my life for some guy to come along and say 'nou' when I'm finished. Oh well, here goes anyway.

In all honesty, we'll never reach an avid conclusion on the DotA vs the World arguments, people will continue to argue for and against it. People either like it, or they don't. I, myself, enjoy it and even go as far as to run a 'DotA team' within my clan, yet I also have other 'Factions', from Roleplaying to Elimination Tournament, Warlocks to the, somewhat dying, tree tag maps.

It'd be stereotypical at best to say that the whole community of DotA are retards; you can say that for anything. I'm sure we've all seen that angry German Kid screaming at his computer because it won't load UT2004.

The post above mine pretty much sums things up. He's said that AOTZ, Warlocks and AOM are better than DotA. This maybe correct; in his opinion. At the end of the day this is all we can, and ever, have. Our own opinion. This won't be changed, unless it's by someone uber like HappyTauren, he just pwns1337. Back on topic.

DotA is hated by many, as is every single other map ever created. The reason this map is viewed as being 'hated more' -- although I argue thats not the case -- is because it's more vocal than others. After all, lots of people may hate map X, yet it's not used in world wide competitions, thus the hatred for X will never be united to the extent it has for DotA.

Unless it's Naruto.
 
Level 28
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,955
It'd be stereotypical at best to say that the whole community of DotA are retards; you can say that for anything. I'm sure we've all seen that angry German Kid screaming at his computer because it won't load UT2004.
You know, he's a fake ^^

In fact, Dota is still unfirendly to newbs.
Friend of mine told me that dota is only playable when it's filled by "skilled" players.
I understand that it's more fun when you have hard enemies but where's the chance fpr newbs to get better and lern from the "skilled" ?
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
Yeah, it's a matter of taste. But there is one big BUT (lol)

If you look at DotA technically, it's just inferior. Shortest to say, quantity > quality, in DotA, and that's a wrong way. So please, don't tell me DotA has more design sense in it than, for example, DoE or LoE. It just does NOT, DotA is chaos, that's the problem, there's no capsule or general idea in it, it's just a lot of heroes and items dumped into a basic map. You said once I'm capable of more intelligent posts, now I telll you the same, Ash. Leave all biass and feelings aside, and just analyse DotA.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
Yeah, it's a matter of taste. But there is one big BUT (lol)

If you look at DotA technically, it's just inferior. Shortest to say, quantity > quality, in DotA, and that's a wrong way. So please, don't tell me DotA has more design sense in it than, for example, DoE or LoE. It just does NOT, DotA is chaos, that's the problem, there's no capsule or general idea in it, it's just a lot of heroes and items dumped into a basic map. You said once I'm capable of more intelligent posts, now I telll you the same, Ash. Leave all biass and feelings aside, and just analyse DotA.

The final, lowest and absolute bottom line is this; DotA is famous.

Regardless of what you, or any other person says. If it was 'just chaos' with 'no general idea' or 'quality' then it'd have no chance making it as big as it is.

I have no bias towards anything. I enter maps with a blank mindset and review them the same.

On a side note; please let this thread die, it's lived a meaningful life and is just being corrupted now. We've all said our points, we've all summed everything up, there is no chance you'll pursuade me to stop liking dota, just as theres no chance I'll pursuade or any other member to like, or have some compassion, for DotA.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
Oh well, you didn't get it at all or you're not willing to engage in polemics. So tell me, what's the general idea then? Because I see none. We can talk about the map design if you want, but give arguments, now you're just refusing.

You brought something up: DotA is famous. Britney Spears is too, and 50 Cent. And a lot of other crap.

As for leaving the thread to die. I have to say I ignore most posts, but I discussing with, for example, you, can be enjoyable.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
Quote:
Firstly, the map itself. It is boring.
Quote:
Im not saying you are wrong, im just saying that this goes for many more games than DotA

just try 90% of all TDs and AoSes in general,
Thats a perfect example of why this topic is never going to reach a logical end.

In all honesty, there are two types of players. Those that like dota and those that don't.

We can't argue points about anything, it's pretty evenly matched. You may argue that the map is boring, yet people enjoy it.

Do you see what I'm aiming at?

This thread really needs finishing; so all in all, I'm going to waste a few minutes of my life for some guy to come along and say 'nou' when I'm finished. Oh well, here goes anyway.

In all honesty, we'll never reach an avid conclusion on the DotA vs the World arguments, people will continue to argue for and against it. People either like it, or they don't. I, myself, enjoy it and even go as far as to run a 'DotA team' within my clan, yet I also have other 'Factions', from Roleplaying to Elimination Tournament, Warlocks to the, somewhat dying, tree tag maps.

It'd be stereotypical at best to say that the whole community of DotA are retards; you can say that for anything. I'm sure we've all seen that angry German Kid screaming at his computer because it won't load UT2004.

The post above mine pretty much sums things up. He's said that AOTZ, Warlocks and AOM are better than DotA. This maybe correct; in his opinion. At the end of the day this is all we can, and ever, have. Our own opinion. This won't be changed, unless it's by someone uber like HappyTauren, he just pwns1337. Back on topic.

DotA is hated by many, as is every single other map ever created. The reason this map is viewed as being 'hated more' -- although I argue thats not the case -- is because it's more vocal than others. After all, lots of people may hate map X, yet it's not used in world wide competitions, thus the hatred for X will never be united to the extent it has for DotA.

Unless it's Naruto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andriejj View Post
Yeah, it's a matter of taste. But there is one big BUT (lol)

If you look at DotA technically, it's just inferior. Shortest to say, quantity > quality, in DotA, and that's a wrong way. So please, don't tell me DotA has more design sense in it than, for example, DoE or LoE. It just does NOT, DotA is chaos, that's the problem, there's no capsule or general idea in it, it's just a lot of heroes and items dumped into a basic map. You said once I'm capable of more intelligent posts, now I telll you the same, Ash. Leave all biass and feelings aside, and just analyse DotA.

The final, lowest and absolute bottom line is this; DotA is famous.

Regardless of what you, or any other person says. If it was 'just chaos' with 'no general idea' or 'quality' then it'd have no chance making it as big as it is.

I have no bias towards anything. I enter maps with a blank mindset and review them the same.

On a side note; please let this thread die, it's lived a meaningful life and is just being corrupted now. We've all said our points, we've all summed everything up, there is no chance you'll persuade me to stop liking dota, just as theres no chance I'll persuade or any other member to like, or have some compassion, for DotA.

There, my whole argument towards why this thread is useless and dead. You like it or you don't. You can't compare maps to other maps due to the simple fact that it's impossible; they all have the same basic feature yet're all unanimously different.

I'd be more than glad to continue it via userpages, a 'Debating group' or Medivh's Tower (when we have enough posts, that is) though, because there we'll get semi-descent replies and the rant of two people at complete opposite ends of the 'DotA vs The World' spectrum won't be, whole hartedly, ignored.

Also, it'd be a good idea to read my arguments as all I'm basically doing now is repeating myself. The thread has, for me, gone like this:

Construct Logical Argument
Get A 'Yeah But DotA Sucks Response'
Construct Another Argument
Get Another "Yeah But DotA Sucks Responce"
Repeat First Argument
Loop
 
Last edited:
Level 12
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
1,193
The final, lowest and absolute bottom line is this; DotA is famous.

Regardless of what you, or any other person says. If it was 'just chaos' with 'no general idea' or 'quality' then it'd have no chance making it as big as it is.

I have no bias towards anything. I enter maps with a blank mindset and review them the same.

On a side note; please let this thread die, it's lived a meaningful life and is just being corrupted now. We've all said our points, we've all summed everything up, there is no chance you'll pursuade me to stop liking dota, just as theres no chance I'll pursuade or any other member to like, or have some compassion, for DotA.
first off, im not bias towards anything either, regardless of was this post says, becouse you might take what im about to say the wrong way, and im not trying to pursuade you to stop liking dota, but this is what i have to say

you are correct about the "Regardless of what you, or any other person says. If it was 'just chaos' with 'no general idea' or 'quality' then it'd have no chance making it as big as it is." but there is one thing you have forgotten that has made DotA as famous as it is

Simplicity and Repetative and "Fun"(im typing it like that becouse we all have our opinions, i myself like to play DotA) Gameplay and most of all, has been on Wc3 for quite some time

I have a perfect example of this.

My father, who has played Legend of Zelda 1 and 2, doesnt like the further installments of the Legend of Zelda franchise. Why i ask him, and he tell me this.

"There are too many buttons to push which makes everything so complicated"

It goes the same way for DotA players. Instead of using the Zelda franchise, lets compare the gameplay between DotA and HoSK. In DotA, the players pick a Hero and get a set of abilities and attributes to play with. In HoSK, the players can combine abilities themselfs and chose most of the Attributes depending on what Attributes they want. They can also aquire Auras and the Ultimates work in a different way. Now, which game is more complicated(and is assumed to require a bigger amount of IQ to master(im not saying it does, im just saying many people here will say it is if you ask them))? I know its not the one that is more famous.

Which means, with metaphores(spelling?) i can say that DotA is like the NES of the AoS franchise. It has been there for a very long time, and doesnt require a Genius to play. It also doenst have those awesome effects like the other ones have, but has those certain aspects that take a long time to master(like certain NES games :p). And now that the NES is so old, people want to play the newer consoles and consider the NES to be boring, when its really awesome(Duck Hunt and that other light gun game FTW).

Im now waiting for the

Get A 'Yeah But DotA Sucks Response'

function
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
What a lousy comment I came up with...
A major majority of map makers will always dislike DoTA. Happy?

1b1318ebbb1ad7f7a160635118b37ba9eea69eae_m.gif
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
As is the case with most maps, we only notice DotA more because it's Largely hosted, competitive and not that easy to get into.

Someone beats you and types "OLOLOLOLOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOLOLOLLOL NOOB", you get pissed and join another game. Same thing happens, and again and again. You end up hating dota because of a minority of players.
 
Level 5
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
116
The final, lowest and absolute bottom line is this; DotA is famous.

Regardless of what you, or any other person says. If it was 'just chaos' with 'no general idea' or 'quality' then it'd have no chance making it as big as it is.

Actually DotA largely is in the status that it is due to a preestablished base. Back in Reign of Chaos, lo and behold it was high-quality in comparison to many maps there were, as it had these custom models and custom spells that one could not find in other maps!

Thus it achieved dominance in RoC, creating competitions, and carried it with it to TFT, and so while there are higher quality made maps as one can clearly observe objectively, it's mainly famous due to preestablishment.

My main gripe in it is that it's too pervasive. It sucks up people and mindlessly turns your average nub on wc3 into a Dota-raging nub, and thus prevents such a player from exploring the rich options wc3 holds. I've had first-hand experience with this - many of my hosting friends often go to play dota, and avoiding other more non-generic games like Axis&Allies...
 
Level 3
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
64
Other great maps seems to be overshadowed by DoTa.

I guess other map makers need to do some marketing and perhaps create the same hype as DoTA to make their maps appeal to the public.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
Thus it achieved dominance in RoC, creating competitions, and carried it with it to TFT, and so while there are higher quality made maps as one can clearly observe objectively, it's mainly famous due to preestablishment.

QFT

Oh, Ash. It's strange then, because DoE players are amazingly superior over DotA pubs, if we talk about intelligence. I don't count the ones who join it for the first time and leave crying "OMG CHEAP DOTA!" or "WTF?! 100 HP?!". That's just because DoE is much deeper, and you need to play it for a while or be very very insightful, to get it.

Now someone might tell me it's bullshit, DotA is harder, blablabla! Oh well, but why is it harder? Do you need better reflexes? No. Do you have to teamwork more? No, teamwork is more important in DoE. Do the skills require you to think a lot? Obviously not.
DotA is hard, because you have to memorise all the items, heroes and their skills, so you know who you're fighting against and how to counter them. That's no skill, that's memory.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
QFT

Oh, Ash. It's strange then, because DoE players are amazingly superior over DotA pubs, if we talk about intelligence. I don't count the ones who join it for the first time and leave crying "OMG CHEAP DOTA!" or "WTF?! 100 HP?!". That's just because DoE is much deeper, and you need to play it for a while or be very very insightful, to get it.

Now someone might tell me it's bullshit, DotA is harder, blablabla! Oh well, but why is it harder? Do you need better reflexes? No. Do you have to teamwork more? No, teamwork is more important in DoE. Do the skills require you to think a lot? Obviously not.
DotA is hard, because you have to memorise all the items, heroes and their skills, so you know who you're fighting against and how to counter them. That's no skill, that's memory.

Once again with the Ad Homenim argument, quit the brown nosing; you won't catch me out.

You misquoted, too. If you want to argue about one of my points then quote me please, it makes it a lot easier to reply and adds general order.

Oh, Ash. It's strange then, because DoE players are amazingly superior over DotA pubs,
That's just because DoE is much deeper, and you need to play it for a while or be very very insightful, to get it.
Do you need better reflexes? No. Do you have to teamwork more? No, teamwork is more important in DoE. Do the skills require you to think a lot? Obviously not.

You can't argue with an opinion unless you have factual evidence to back it up. It's like running into a gunfight without a gun.

Oh, Ash. It's strange then, because DoE players are amazingly superior over DotA pubs, if we talk about intelligence. I don't count the ones who join it for the first time and leave crying "OMG CHEAP DOTA!" or "WTF?! 100 HP?!". That's just because DoE is much deeper, and you need to play it for a while or be very very insightful, to get it.

Can you clear this up? I really have no idea wtf you're talking about.

Obviously not.
DotA is hard, because you have to memorise all the items, heroes and their skills, so you know who you're fighting against and how to counter them. That's no skill, that's memory.

Memory is a skill. Let alone the fact that every hero can be countered by any of the other heroes. You just need to try things out and learn what works well and what doesn't. This is, once again, an example as to why this thread will not come to a logical end. Opinion vs Opinion always ends up in a massive shitfeast.


Not a sentence, see me after class.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
What should I write? "I'm now writing specifically to you, Ash!" ?

As for DoE being deeper than DotA. First let's look at DotA - what do you have to do there? Buy items, go and creep, kill a hero if possible, gank, avoid ganks, buy better items, win. One base per team, 3 lanes, forest with creeps and shops, stupid golem with a renamed Ankh. That's all, nothing more, pretty much every AoS involves that (excluding the golem ofc, and different base/lane setups). There are no systems or creative game mechanics. Thing that makes DotA stand out are units spawning out of nowhere, no matter if the barracks exist or not.
As a result, you know what do straight away, you fully understand the map after one game. Later you just learn the heroes and items, memorise. Which is not really a skill gamewise, in ladder you also have to know a lot (though not that much), and it requires 100x more skill than DotA. Btw, DoE is also much easier than ladder, but it's not dumb.

Now let's look at DoE. First off, conditions system. You won't get it straight away and you have to play several heroes to see how it works. They're basically negative buffs organised into a system.
Second- lanes and bases. In DotA, all lanes are pretty much the same, the middle one is a tad shorter and you can switch from easier, but that's geommetry, lol. In DoE, side lanes function separately from the middle. That means that at start, you have 3 places to defend. If you lose side outposts, you are left with one, but that's a bad thing. Also, you can hire additional spawns - for pushing and repelling pushes. That makes teamwork much more interesting. To destroy a base, you must distract the enemy, absorb them with something else, kill several units and use their respawn time, multiple ways for it. That also enables different hero roles. One can maintain (heal) or boost (aura) creep pushes, the other can kill heroes so they can't push or don't farm your creeps with AoE spells.
Now about monehz. In DotA it's for items, and that's it. Here you have to balance it. You can spend faction on items, but you can also hire one of the more powerful creeps. To get faction, you have to kill heroes. But if you farm a lot instead, then you have more gold for creeps. The best way is to do both, but that depends on the hero.
Usually the game ends after one side has their side outpost(s) pwnt, and afterwards a middle push comes, so they fight on 2 frontlines. But I played games where a side won through a powerful middle push, or a game where both bases were being pwnt at the same time, one through side lanes, the other through middle. And one of the sides (mine :grin:) won by 3 seconds or so.

Oh well, I should ask Ves to post his reasoning, he's better at it. But I think you get my points. Learning =/= memorising. DotA is too simple (imo). It's inferior to DoE in the same way Warcraft 1 or 2 is inferior to Warcraft 3 (maybe not THAT much, but DotA get's pawned visually as well). Warcraft 3 is more developed and complex (but not overcomplicated) than the previous ones, DoE is more complex than DotA (but not overcomplicated as well, EotA:T is, for example).
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
What should I write? "I'm now writing specifically to you, Ash!" ?

No, you could write in English D:

If you haven't guessed by now, I'm playing Devils Advocate. I enjoy most Bnet games. I'm fighting for DotA because noone else is. I'm not saying DotA > DoE, I'm arguing that this thread is useless due to the point that we always refer to point of view logic, thus we'll go round in "dota sucks", "nah dota pwns" arguments.

I believe that DotA is about right in the sense that it's not overcomplicated, it's not under-complicated, it just tends to work after you get into it.

I would like to point something out though;

As for DoE being deeper than DotA. First let's look at DotA - what do you have to do there? Buy items, go and creep, kill a hero if possible, gank, avoid ganks, buy better items, win. One base per team, 3 lanes, forest with creeps and shops, stupid golem with a renamed Ankh. That's all, nothing more, pretty much every AoS involves that (excluding the golem ofc, and different base/lane setups). There are no systems or creative game mechanics. Thing that makes DotA stand out are units spawning out of nowhere, no matter if the barracks exist or not.
As a result, you know what do straight away, you fully understand the map after one game. Later you just learn the heroes and items, memorise. Which is not really a skill gamewise, in ladder you also have to know a lot (though not that much), and it requires 100x more skill than DotA. Btw, DoE is also much easier than ladder, but it's not dumb.
Now let's look at DoE. First off, conditions system. You won't get it straight away and you have to play several heroes to see how it works. They're basically negative buffs organised into a system.
Second- lanes and bases. In DotA, all lanes are pretty much the same, the middle one is a tad shorter and you can switch from easier, but that's geommetry, lol. In DoE, side lanes function separately from the middle. That means that at start, you have 3 places to defend. If you lose side outposts, you are left with one, but that's a bad thing. Also, you can hire additional spawns - for pushing and repelling pushes. That makes teamwork much more interesting. To destroy a base, you must distract the enemy, absorb them with something else, kill several units and use their respawn time, multiple ways for it. That also enables different hero roles. One can maintain (heal) or boost (aura) creep pushes, the other can kill heroes so they can't push or don't farm your creeps with AoE spells.
Now about monehz. In DotA it's for items, and that's it. Here you have to balance it. You can spend faction on items, but you can also hire one of the more powerful creeps. To get faction, you have to kill heroes. But if you farm a lot instead, then you have more gold for creeps. The best way is to do both, but that depends on the hero.
Usually the game ends after one side has their side outpost(s) pwnt, and afterwards a middle push comes, so they fight on 2 frontlines. But I played games where a side won through a powerful middle push, or a game where both bases were being pwnt at the same time, one through side lanes, the other through middle. And one of the sides (mine :grin:) won by 3 seconds or so.

Oh well, I should ask Ves to post his reasoning, he's better at it. But I think you get my points. Learning =/= memorising. DotA is too simple (imo). It's inferior to DoE in the same way Warcraft 1 or 2 is inferior to Warcraft 3 (maybe not THAT much, but DotA get's pawned visually as well). Warcraft 3 is more developed and complex (but not overcomplicated) than the previous ones, DoE is more complex than DotA (but not overcomplicated as well, EotA:T is, for example).



(The book is click able, btw)

That seems awfully complicated and certainly overhauling for an AoS. DotA tends to work because it can either be played extremely competitive, and thats when things are complicated and you do try new things out, you need good reactions in order to do certain things and need knowledge to know what does/doesn't work.

Or, dota can be laid back and you can use the same item build, it works for whichever mood you're in.
 
Level 12
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
1,193
What should I write? "I'm now writing specifically to you, Ash!" ?

As for DoE being deeper than DotA. First let's look at DotA - what do you have to do there? Buy items, go and creep, kill a hero if possible, gank, avoid ganks, buy better items, win. One base per team, 3 lanes, forest with creeps and shops, stupid golem with a renamed Ankh. That's all, nothing more, pretty much every AoS involves that (excluding the golem ofc, and different base/lane setups). There are no systems or creative game mechanics. Thing that makes DotA stand out are units spawning out of nowhere, no matter if the barracks exist or not.
As a result, you know what do straight away, you fully understand the map after one game. Later you just learn the heroes and items, memorise. Which is not really a skill gamewise, in ladder you also have to know a lot (though not that much), and it requires 100x more skill than DotA. Btw, DoE is also much easier than ladder, but it's not dumb.

Now let's look at DoE. First off, conditions system. You won't get it straight away and you have to play several heroes to see how it works. They're basically negative buffs organised into a system.
Second- lanes and bases. In DotA, all lanes are pretty much the same, the middle one is a tad shorter and you can switch from easier, but that's geommetry, lol. In DoE, side lanes function separately from the middle. That means that at start, you have 3 places to defend. If you lose side outposts, you are left with one, but that's a bad thing. Also, you can hire additional spawns - for pushing and repelling pushes. That makes teamwork much more interesting. To destroy a base, you must distract the enemy, absorb them with something else, kill several units and use their respawn time, multiple ways for it. That also enables different hero roles. One can maintain (heal) or boost (aura) creep pushes, the other can kill heroes so they can't push or don't farm your creeps with AoE spells.
Now about monehz. In DotA it's for items, and that's it. Here you have to balance it. You can spend faction on items, but you can also hire one of the more powerful creeps. To get faction, you have to kill heroes. But if you farm a lot instead, then you have more gold for creeps. The best way is to do both, but that depends on the hero.
Usually the game ends after one side has their side outpost(s) pwnt, and afterwards a middle push comes, so they fight on 2 frontlines. But I played games where a side won through a powerful middle push, or a game where both bases were being pwnt at the same time, one through side lanes, the other through middle. And one of the sides (mine :grin:) won by 3 seconds or so.

Oh well, I should ask Ves to post his reasoning, he's better at it. But I think you get my points. Learning =/= memorising. DotA is too simple (imo). It's inferior to DoE in the same way Warcraft 1 or 2 is inferior to Warcraft 3 (maybe not THAT much, but DotA get's pawned visually as well). Warcraft 3 is more developed and complex (but not overcomplicated) than the previous ones, DoE is more complex than DotA (but not overcomplicated as well, EotA:T is, for example).
you did not need to write this much, since most of it is useless. Dont get me wrong, last time i played DoE i had a great time, it was better than 90% of the DotA games i play, but just let me explain.

"To destroy a base, you must distract the enemy, absorb them with something else, kill several units and use their respawn time, multiple ways for it. That also enables different hero roles. One can maintain (heal) or boost (aura) creep pushes, the other can kill heroes so they can't push or don't farm your creeps with AoE spells"

This, is possible in DotA too

"Usually the game ends after one side has their side outpost(s) pwnt, and afterwards a middle push comes, so they fight on 2 frontlines. But I played games where a side won through a powerful middle push, or a game where both bases were being pwnt at the same time, one through side lanes, the other through middle. And one of the sides (mine :grin:) won by 3 seconds or so."

Its usually like that in DotA too, atleast when i play

"As a result, you know what do straight away, you fully understand the map after one game. Later you just learn the heroes and items, memorise. Which is not really a skill gamewise"

Isnt it the same way in DoE? Except you have to learn the Condition system?

"There are no systems or creative game mechanics. Thing that makes DotA stand out are units spawning out of nowhere, no matter if the barracks exist or not."

There are systems, they just arent innovative or standing out as much

and finally, tell me this

"To get faction, you have to kill heroes. But if you farm a lot instead, then you have more gold for creeps. The best way is to do both, but that depends on the hero."

There has got to be another way to get faction, right? I havent played DoE in a long time, so i dont remember, but that would mean my support hero would almost never get faction becouse all he does is heal himself and others.

Now, if this works through a Assist system, i will back off
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
Assists give 1 faction, kills give 2. And how can a DotA game end after a side outpost being destroyed (when there are none)? o_O

A little offtopic. DotA is first on the game list, ok. But how that wretch of a map called Naruto: 3rd Shinobi Wars is the third most popular map on Northrend? That's just unbelievable. While DotA isn't too much for one's aesthetics sense, it looks like Eden compared to that Naruto map, which just RAPES your eyes. It's worse than DotA in all possible resorts.

It's like with that most popular video on youtube. It's nothing really great, but it was one of the first, very popular videos, and with the snowball effect (or "owczy pęd", but I don't know the English version, if there is one) it reached its number views. And it still will be increasing, because new youtube users will keep on viewing the most popular vid to check out what is it.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
"To get faction, you have to kill heroes. But if you farm a lot instead, then you have more gold for creeps. The best way is to do both, but that depends on the hero."

There has got to be another way to get faction, right? I havent played DoE in a long time, so i dont remember, but that would mean my support hero would almost never get faction becouse all he does is heal himself and others.

Now, if this works through a Assist system, i will back off

Not only that, but do you not farm and creep inside DotA as well?
 
Level 8
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
446
I recently played a game of Dota with a relative on bnet (maybe to change my perception of dota) we both had 3-4 second delay, THAT'S RIGHT since it was at my house and he just told me what items to get, and we won... Yeah I know it was public, so many people say public players suck in dota, but how about me? I only play Dota like one or twice in a year. The fights were incredibly boring, everyone just go at one guy and that's it, I didn't even bother to control my hero properly (3-4 sec delay) and also because my hero had damage that went +100 because of some items, every battle required almost no effort. I even killed some few heroes unconsciously lol.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
In DotA you have gold, only gold. The biggest amount is for killing sprees, so the best way is to kill heroes all the time.

Razorbrain, units in DotA keep on spawning after the barracks are lost. You just lose your buffer.

And Santa just proved the valid point, that DotA is about knowledge, not skill.
 
Level 27
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
3,052
Not at all. I know combinations for most heroes in what situations, but still it relies on skill.
I've won and lost games in pretty much the same setup because I was facing a more skilled team once. Also, if you don't believe me, check out some DotA videos on youtube, some of the tricks they pull with skilled shots and difficult tricks are amazing.
And don't say DotA doesn't use teamwork. I've rarely seen one person pull through without the help of teammates. Once they get stacked, sure, but its the point of the opposing team to prevent that through ganking the person.
SantaBla, you probably played the worst players on battle-net, as if you can kill them without noticing, they are doing something terribly wrong. First, they are letting you get that stacked, and second, they are not retreating when being attacked by someone powerful.
I don't know why people say item combinations make up the game. While they do aid the hero immensely, you aren't going to win by just attacking stuff blindly. And if you do, your former display of skill is what got you there. You don't gain gold that quickly without effort, and unless you are good, you will in fact lose that gold to dying.
There are only two heroes I can think of that are truly imbalanced, the others are fine, every hero has a counter.
--donut3.5--
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
I recently played a game of Dota with a relative on bnet (maybe to change my perception of dota) we both had 3-4 second delay, THAT'S RIGHT since it was at my house and he just told me what items to get, and we won... Yeah I know it was public, so many people say public players suck in dota, but how about me? I only play Dota like one or twice in a year. The fights were incredibly boring, everyone just go at one guy and that's it, I didn't even bother to control my hero properly (3-4 sec delay) and also because my hero had damage that went +100 because of some items, every battle required almost no effort. I even killed some few heroes unconsciously lol.
In DotA you have gold, only gold. The biggest amount is for killing sprees, so the best way is to kill heroes all the time.

Razorbrain, units in DotA keep on spawning after the barracks are lost. You just lose your buffer.

And Santa just proved the valid point, that DotA is about knowledge, not skill.

You are so ignorant you're becoming nonsentrical. 'DotA is about Knowledge', you cannot argue with opinion, regardless of what you may think. You're quoting this bit:

I recently played a game of Dota with a relative on bnet (maybe to change my perception of dota) we both had 3-4 second delay, THAT'S RIGHT since it was at my house and he just told me what items to get, and we won...

There are more than 2 players in a game of DotA, that means that Santabla could've been the worst player on the team. He openly admits to 'not controlling his hero properly', and yet still proclaims that dota sucks. On top of that, he also admits that he 'went after the same guy', this means he avoided the fun of ganks too. Even after saying he didn't play the game as it should be played, he still fanatically argues that DotA is no fun whatsoever. . He went in with bias, he gave a bias opinion.

In DotA you have gold, only gold. The biggest amount is for killing sprees, so the best way is to kill heroes all the time.

You're not stupid; you can't kill heroes all the time. On top of that, you should know that some heroes are designed as support, thus they stand little to no chance of killing heroes. You should also know that the interval between killing heroes and units is too great, you'll usually gain more cash from constantly farming creeps.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
7
It's personal. You cant tell someone who hated DotA to actually like it. I personally like to play DotA, but I still enjoy other fun custom maps.

DotA is actually a good map, the main problem is the players' attitudes. You really need to play in a serious/professional game to know that DotA actually takes skills. The thing is, if you're not up to their standard; and if your teammates where those assholes who flames non-stop; anyone will quickly turn away from it.

DotA is a team-based game. In certain games, where you have pro-players with you, you dont really have to do a thing to win, and vice versa.

Neway, i don't expect anyone to change their perception for DotA. (especially those who got flamed badly, where obviously they themself are the people who have no life) It's your choice to hate it, and nobody can do anything about it.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
7
It's a personal choice. You can't change one's perception just by telling them "you're wrong!". They have to experience it themselves, or it's their rights to choice what to believe and what's not.

The title of this thread is "Hate DotA?" I'll say, no. I like it.

Btw, you cannot generalize that every DotA player are "assholes". I like DotA, but i still hate whiners/flamers/etc who played DotA. And one more thing, you really need to be in a professional/serious game to know that DotA actually takes skill AND knowledge. Well, of course, will probably consist of whiners/flamers, where you don't meet their standard; you know what they will say to you; which probably turned many people away from DotA.

I still like other good custom games though. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
It's a personal choice. You can't change one's perception just by telling them "you're wrong!". They have to experience it themselves, or it's their rights to choice what to believe and what's not.

The title of this thread is "Hate DotA?" I'll say, no. I like it.

Btw, you cannot generalize that every DotA player are "assholes". I like DotA, but i still hate whiners/flamers/etc who played DotA. And one more thing, you really need to be in a professional/serious game to know that DotA actually takes skill AND knowledge. Well, of course, will probably consist of whiners/flamers, where you don't meet their standard; you know what they will say to you; which probably turned many people away from DotA.

I still like other good custom games though. ;)

As I've been saying throughout the whole thread.
 
Level 7
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
246
Ash, some things are obvious, so I skip them. Ofc you don't hunt heroes 100% of the time.

And stop talking about skill, seriously. Or give specific examples. "some of the tricks they pull with skilled shots and difficult tricks are amazing". You could say that about any map or game. Saying that DotA requires more skill than, let's say, HoSK, is total bullshit. They require pretty much the same skills. Comparison to DoE, which I mentioned already a lot of times, would be harder, because the maps differ a lot, so I won't go into this swamp further xD
 
Level 8
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
446
SantaBla, you probably played the worst players on battle-net, as if you can kill them without noticing, they are doing something terribly wrong. First, they are letting you get that stacked, and second, they are not retreating when being attacked by someone powerful.
--donut3.5--

It's just that they didn't have any time to run away with all these guys charging them all together, I also died in this game because of the same reason, everyone went on me...

There are more than 2 players in a game of DotA, that means that Santabla could've been the worst player on the team. He openly admits to 'not controlling his hero properly', and yet still proclaims that dota sucks. On top of that, he also admits that he 'went after the same guy', this means he avoided the fun of ganks too. Even after saying he didn't play the game as it should be played, he still fanatically argues that DotA is no fun whatsoever. He went in with bias, he gave a bias opinion.
1. I wasn't last since I had better score than someone else on my team.
2. I didn't proclaim that Dota sucks. Learn to read. I only said it was boring, that's different for me.
3. I mean when a guy was alone, we all went on him and that's how we won.
4. There are no specific ways of playing Dota, and I didn't say that I didn't play the game properly, I only said that I didn't control my hero properly, but now I think it was a fair usage of the hero, but if I played like that in some other AOS maps, I would have gotten my ass handed to me.
5. I "fanatically" argue you say? That's not arguing. I was only retelling my personal experience of Dota, it's not like I had to convince you that Dota is good, it wasn't for me so end of story. Also, I'm not a fan of AOS games in general, but I do enjoy a game of DoE once in a while, but as for Dota, I'm trying to like it because my relatives do, but I just don't find the same fun. It relies more on memorizing items than anything else.

I remember I played HOSK before, I didn't like it mainly because of the stupid item combinations... It claims to be a "hero builder map" but what's the point when in the end you rely again on items to win the game??
 
Last edited:

Ash

Ash

Level 22
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,684
1. I wasn't last since I had better score than someone else on my team.

Santabla wasn't last, he was second last* FIXED.
2. I didn't proclaim that Dota sucks. Learn to read. I only said it was boring, that's different for me.

So you're telling me that throughout this whole thread you haven't said that DotA is a bad game? Nah, didn't think so.
3. I mean when a guy was alone, we all went on him and that's how we won.

So you played against a feeder, you went after the newfag that constantly went by himself even though he was getting OMGWTFPWNED.
4. There are no specific ways of playing Dota, and I didn't say that I didn't play the game properly, I only said that I didn't control my hero properly, but now I think it was a fair usage of the hero, but if I played like that in some other AOS maps, I would have gotten my ass handed to me.
So not controlling your hero is how to play the game? D:
5. I "fanatically" argue you say? That's not arguing. I was only retelling my personal experience of Dota, it's not like I had to convince you that Dota is good, it wasn't for me so end of story. Also, I'm not a fan of AOS games in general, but I do enjoy a game of DoE once in a while, but as for Dota, I'm trying to like it because my relatives do, but I just don't find the same fun. It relies more on memorizing items than anything else.
You've argued about as long as I have, we've both 'Fanatically' argued for and against DotA.

P.S Moar points to pick apart pls.

P.P.S This topic really belongs in Mediev's tower, where the smart people look at things
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top