What we have here is failure to communicate.
No problem, some small misunderstanding.
What exactly is problem with what Xonok said?
What was problem with what I said?
You are problem, its all your fault. You should die in hell, or get burned at first nearby tree and your ashes should be scattered around.
MUahahaha I am joking man
1. Can War Stomp be used on Air units? It can't;
2. Can you stun and attack melee units? You can;
= Better damage against air units to compensate for the lack of stun against air units. Unlike the other creep units you can get Doom Guard in melee game so he had more attention in balance department.
I said it was excellent unit.
No, it is fact. you can do that, I just though that you two were telling me that this can be done in my case, since I wrote on list that I tested that in 1 vs 1 fight. I missunderstood that you were talking globally about what he can do.
And you keep telling me about how spell duration is reduced when I already said I was aware ("spells have hero duration on him").
Yes, but I was talking on both Level 8 plus Resisant skin. I do not know if you meant on both of those or just one of that (either high level or resisant skin) because both of those reduces effect.
Honestly I do notk now if those two are combined at all. What do you think?
All units above level 5 and Heroes have same magic reduction.
I did not know that. I though that All units from level 6 and up have greater magic reduction as their level is higher.
But there are some cases. Hydralisk for example is level 7, but I think (although I need to check) that cripple lasts more.
That is why cripple is dangerous to player's units since all of them are from level 1-5, nevermind how they are powerful.
Tauren is most powerful ground unit which player can train, but cripple works for him full duration, therefore you can easily kill him.
I only mentioned war stomp being used to counter range unit kitting and in melee gameplay where faction units are all below level 5 (knights, abominations, tauren are all low level units actually).
That is completely true.it is why is this designed for. Secondary function is to cancel some spells which requires long of time to be casted, like drains and ultimate abilities.
Yes what you say is obvious and nobody said anything against it, especially from 1v1 perspective but 1v1 perspective isn't good way to judge a unit in an army.
Yeah, that was just testing 1 vs 1 out of curiosity to see how would it stand against other same leveled (+-1level) units.
if you remember from my big post where is list ,,Well 1 vs 1 is just one of aspects, there are spells, anti air abilities, anti spell casters, team support etc etc..." which I assumed that this is just one of aspects. You also need to test other apects of game such as how is that unit behaving in groups, is it helpful, can it support nearby units (aura, damage increase buffs or in this case, dispel magic and war stomp), can it shoot air, how vulnerable is it etc etc... so, overall its very difficult to test it all.
I would still pick Doom Guard in my army than most of the units that can defeat in 1v1 combat because Doom Guard can benefit your army.
Of course, thats why it is my favorite unit. As I tried to explain and prove, Doom is designed mostly for spell casting and supporting some other units. But I tried to see if it can beat other units with those spells regarding his weak damage for his level. And I was surprised that I could beat most of them.
But honestly, once you are done with some unit, dom is pretty much useless. he is without mana, you are in trouble to renew it. (mana is more difficult to regeain than HP).
Undeads can replanish him mana with that Statue. How can he get mana in other way aside from fountain?
But for groups you are right. War stomp, plus dispel, plus cripple if needed, plus awesome damage vs air units (he can also cripple air unit), plus 1350 or 1600 HP which can take good amount of damage....
To be honest there is also the running away option I believe for life drain. At least that is what I do always.
Yes but you cannot escape in 1 vs 1 because Doom is slow and meele, life drain has its range 500, so even if you manage to escape, you will be at low health, and do not forget that doom is little slower than standard units.
When I fight against Maiden of Pain level 8, she activates life drain when she is on lower health (but cause she is about same as me), I am also on low health, so she drains me, and heals her, so I cannot get to escape on time, even if I do, she has ranged attack, she can run and shoot me.
But again, this is on 1 vs 1. You can run away from it in group.
In your 1v1 tests yeah only on those spells. Doom Guard still also has the hero duration reduction on all spells and even full immunity to some spells (not all units you tested have that passive). So in anti-magic regard it still better unit than most from the list.
Yeah.... But I do not know exactly what on is he immune completely.
What do you think?
As far I know, he cannot be shoot down by death coil from skeletal orc, but that can be also due that he is classified as demon (and they are similar as undeads).
I heard, Shar Dundred probably told me that spell immune is not protecting from Charm, but resisant skin does, thats why they put that to Doom and Infernal (aside from his spell immunity)
Some units also have that reisant skin, I cannot remember exactly who.
That naga Royal Guard, Infernal....
Now put these attributes in actual melee game? Useful.
Yes those units are better in 1v1 situation no arguing there. Magnataurs are insane especially.
I think that Magnataur Reaver is overpowered.... That spell immunity combined with high damage, hit points, frost bolt and anti air ability is indeed insane as you said. I think he can clear not just any fighter units, but spellcasters as well.
Yeah he requires strategic thinking. I am unsure if cripple is worth using on heroic creeps as it lasts 10 seconds (no not 15), it was more designed to be aimed at tier 3 units or fleeing heroes.
Oh my bad, I though that cooldown of cripple is 5 seconds, so I said 15 because all three can be casted before doom is without mana. I just checked, you are right, cooldown is 10, and it lasts 10 seconds.
6 times smaller.
Warstomp as you show is more mana friendly and even 1 second stun is welcomed.
Yes, it helped me out in some cases, especially to cancel life drain from Maiden of Pain because she is draining lot.
I also used massive war stomps against Fel Ravager which is level 7 and has devour magic. So rapidly war stomps can help.
Rain of Fire is not to be used ever at all on single units, I can't really imagine situation where it would want to use it since I want Doom Guard on the front and not in background.
i tried to use it on That turtle level 7 because as meele, doom guard suffers back damage from its spikes, so I tried to avoid that and save him as much more is possible. But failed. I remember AI Doom guard is using rain of fire at groups of my units. I am using it at some Orcs buildings if they are upgraded with those spikes.
Conclusion (Or TL
R): I do not deny what you say. I just say that if we put Doom Guards Attributes in actual gameplay I think you'll get better results, compared to 1v1 combat. It isn't most powerful unit, but sure is dependable unit.
Yeah I totally agree on that.
PS: Also I would test summoned Doom Guard as it is the one you can use in game.
Really? As far as I know, the reason for the magic reduction is the Resistant Skin ability. Are you sure that the level has an impact as well? I can't say that I noticed any difference on spell damage because of the level.
But yes, heroes take less damage due to spells, though, since their hero armor reduces it.
I do not know if its combined with Resisant skin, but level indeed reduces duration of negative spells. I tested with any level 7, 8 and 9 units cripple and it lasts 10 seconds. And only few units have resisant skin
Doom guard can hurt flying unit with rain of fire...
Really? I did not know that, interesting! But it lasts in waves, Ai will move air unit after first wave, so very little of damage can be done in that way
unless there're Dragonhawk Rider's to shackle 'em or too many anti-air units (not advantageous to a player doing so).
