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Various unit tests 1 vs 1

Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by MasterHaosis, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    Hello mortals! Well ,few days ago we used to discuss about certain units how powerful they are, and how would stand if faced each other one vs one, how would they benefit army if used, are they strong on ground, air or are good spellcasters etc etc...
    So I used to test Doom Guard vs various of units (his level plus/minus one level) and several others, just in case of 1 vs 1.
    So, purpose of this thread is to show how powerful certain unit is on singular purpose, as standalone, when face various units one by one.
    Be in mind that this is just for orientation, as sometimes luck can occur because of certain spells and abilities depends of percent chances, usage of spells etc etc...
    I will edit this thread to add more tests:

    Win means that my unit won, and defeat means that my unit lost

    First, to show good old Doom Guard which I tested about three years ago:

    ______________________________________________________
    Doom Guard against:

    Level 8 creatures as himself:
    Fulborg Ursa Warrior - win
    Centaur Khan - Defeat
    Berserk Wildkin - Defeat (although depends of luck because of bash chance)
    Infernal Machine - Win
    Maiden of Pain - Equal (Always defeat unless you do combo without wrong move, then you kill her)
    Infernal - Defeat
    Dark Wizard - Win
    Berserk Elemental - Defeat (Elemental will left on 15 HP, which is one hit, so it takes advantage of ranged attack to run away and fire from distance when on low health, otherwice it would lose)
    Blue Dragonspawn Overseer - Win
    Faceless One Terror - Win
    Magnataur Reaver - Defeat
    Dire Mammoth - Defeat (but Mammoth left at 40 HP which means one or two hits left)
    Polar Fulborg Elder Shaman - Win
    Polar Fulborg Ursa Warrior - win
    Ice Revenant - Defeat (Revenant will be left at 120HP)
    Sea Giant Behemoth - Win (Doom Guard will wim him and be alive at 760HP)
    Revenant of the Depth - Win
    Skeletal orc Champion - Win (Doom Guard will wim him and be alive at 775HP)

    Level 7 creatures:
    Fulborg Champion - Win
    Fulborg Elder Shaman - Win
    Harpy Queen - Win
    Razormane Chieftain - Win
    Fel Ravager - Win (it has devour magic, so cripple wont work, but I used War Stomps instead)
    Bandit Lord - Win (he has shadowmeld so you cant see him. Also he uses divine shield so run away until it wears off)
    Salamander Vizier - Win
    Nerubian Queen - Win
    Tuskarr Chieftain - Win
    Ogre Lord - Win
    Wendigo shaman - Equal (You can win always if you do not miss one move in certain tactic, otherwice you lose)
    Gargantuan Sea Turtle - Equal (You can win always if you do not miss one move in certain tactic, otherwice you lose)
    Murgul Shadowcaster - Win
    Macura Tidal Lord - Win
    Elder Hydra - Win
    Sasquatch Oracle - Equal (You can win always if you do not miss one move in certain tactic, otherwice you lose)

    Level 9 creatures:
    Ancient Sasquatch - Defeat (Sasquatch is left at 75HP)
    Elder Voidwalker - Defeat (Void is left at 522HP, cripple is not working because he has devour magic)
    Eredar Warlock - Defeat (When he is at 80HP left, he activates mana shield, and attacks me several times until kills me)
    Death Revenant - Defeat (Revenant is left at 345 HP)
    Siege Golem - Defeat (Golem is left at 365 HP, its immune to spells so I could not throw anything)
    Storm Wyrm - Defeat (Wyrm is left at 120HP)
    Granite Golem - Defeat (Golem is left at half, immune to magic)
    Satyr Hellcaller - Equal (Satyr is left at 70HP when win, I can beat him with correct tactic)
    Ancient Wendigo - Defeat (Wendigo is left at 325HP)
    StormReaver Warlock - Defeat (Warlock is left at 176HP)
    Enraged Jungle beast - Defeat (Jungle Beast is left at 210HP)

    Others:
    Knight (fully upgraded) - Win (just do one cripple and he is done)
    Tauren (fully upgraded) - Win (just do one cripple and he is done)
    Abomination (fully upgraded) - Win (just do one cripple and he is done)
    Mountain Giant (fully upgraded) - Win (you need to cripple him three times, then to do war stomp)
    Hydralisk - Win (Defeat unless you do at least one cripple at him)
    Stonemaul Magi (level 7) from Campaign - Win
    Beast Master's Spirit bear (leveled 3) - Win
    Naga Royal Guard - Defeat


    Recently I had discussion with Dr Super Good about Hydralisk, how powerful it is, so I tested it as well.

    ______________________________________________________
    Hydralisk against:

    Level 7:
    Sasquatch Oracle - Win (even Sasquatch puts rejuvenation on itself)
    Fulborg Champion - Win (Hydraliks is left at 366HP)
    Fulborg Eldr Shaman - Win (Even Shaman uses rejunevation, Hydraliks is left at 428HP)
    Salamander Vizier - Win (Hydraliks is left at 362HP)
    Fel Ravager - Win (Hydraliks is left at 336HP)
    Razormane Chief - Win (Hydraliks is left at 222HP)
    Harpy Queen - Win (Hydraliks is left at 547HP, although Harpy throws annoying Cyclone to delay me)
    Murgul Shadowcaster - Defeat (Barely win if AI uses it, then Hydralisk is left at 45HP, if I use Murgul against Hydralisk, combo Hex/Curse, I always win)
    Elder Hydra - Win (Hydraliks is left at 478HP)
    Ogre Lord - Win (Hydraliks is left at 272HP)
    Tuskarr Chieftain - Win (Hydraliks is left at 285HP)
    Nerubian Queen - Win (Hydraliks is left at 518HP)
    Bandit Lord - Win (Hydraliks is left at 101HP, he could beat me because of divine shiled so I was forced to run away until it fades off)
    Makura Tidal Lord - Win (Hydraliks is left at 365HP)
    Gargatunum Sea Turtle - Win (Hydraliks is left at 238HP)


    Level 8 units:
    Fulborg Ursa Warrior - Win (Hydraliks is left at 138HP)
    Centaur Khan - Defeat (because of reincarnation)
    Berserk Wildin - Defeat (that bash is cause of luck, because Wildkin is left at red health, but still enough for defeat)
    Doom Guard - Defeat (win if he does not do at least one cripple, then I am done)
    Infernal - Defeat
    Infernal Machine - Win
    Maiden of Pain - Defeat (when on orange health, she uses shadow strike and life drain, and kills me)
    Dark Wizard - Equal (depends of luck, Hyralisk can win with 36HP)
    Berserk Elemental - Win
    Blue Dragonspawn Overseer - Win
    Faceless One Terror - Win
    Dire Mammoth - Defeat
    Magnataur Reaver - Defeat
    Polar Fulborg Elder Shaman - Win
    Ice Revenant - Defeat
    Skeletal Orc Champion - Defeat
    Revenant of the Depths - Defeat
    Sea Giant - Win

    Well, some units I won, but I am not sure then I played with those against Hydralisk, then I won with all spell using, so I consider defeat as in some cases AI does not use full potential of spells.
    I even defeated some level 9 units such as Satyr Hellcaller (Hydralisk is left at 30HP, which means who hits first) and Siege Golem. Against Storm Wyrm, Storm Wyrm wins with 27HP, also means who shots first. But Storm Wyrm can devour Hydralisk, therefore remove it immediatelly.


    Now, I did Naga Royal Guard (not upgraded from Temple of Tides):

    ______________________________________________________
    Royal Guard against:

    Level 9:
    Satyr Hellcaller - Win
    Storm Wyrm - Win
    Enraged Jungle Stalker - Win
    Stormreaver Warlock - Win
    Ancient Wendigo - Defeat
    Ancient Sasquatch - Win
    Eredar Warlock - Win
    Elder Voidwalker - Win
    Granite Golem - Defeat
    Ice Revenant - Win
    Siege Golem - Win

    And that was Royal Guard plus one Sea Elemental check. With two Sea Elementals I could kill any of those units

    Level 10:
    Queen of Suffering - Defeat (she can charm elemental and use against Royal Guard, and can use death coil against him)
    Infernal Juggernaut - Defeat (juggernaut spawns Infernal and I am done)
    Salamander Lord - Win
    Faceless One Deathbringer - Win
    Magnataur Destroyer - Defeat
    Ancient Hydra - Defeat
    Deeplord Revenant - Win
    Dragon Turtle - Equal (Turtle won at 28HP, depends of luck)


    Now, I tested Eredar Warlock level 9.

    ______________________________________________________
    Eredar Warlock against:

    Eredar Warlock:

    Level 9 and 10:

    Stormreaver Warlock - Win
    Magnataur Destroyer - Defeat
    Faceless One Deathbringer - Win
    Ancient Hydra - Defeat
    Deeplord Revenant - Defeat
    Dragon Turtle - Win
    Siege Golem - Defeat
    Queen of Suffering - Win
    Elder Voidwalker - Win
    Siege Golem - Win
    Death Revenant - Win

    Level 8:

    Polar Fulborg Elder Shaman - Win
    Pular Fulborg Ursa Warrior - Win
    Dire Mammoth - Win
    Blue Dragonspawn Overseer = Win
    Faceless One Terror - Win
    Magnataur reaver - Equal (depends of luck)
    Centaur Khan - Win
    Berserk Wildin - Win
    Infernal - Defeat
    Infernal Machine - Win
    Maiden of Pain - Win
    Doom Guard - Win
    Dark Wizard - Win
    Berserk Elemental = Win
    Ice Revenant - Win
    Sea Giant Behemoth - Win
    Revenant of the Depths - Win
    Skeletal Orc Champion - Win

    Naga Royal Guard - Equal (depending on luck and strikes)

    ______________________________________________________
    Ancient Hydra is one of two most powerful or overpowered units in game.
    It has 1600HP, 600Mana, 2 heavy Armor, 77-97 ranged anti ground/anti air chaos damage.
    War stomp, devour, slow poison and unique 25HP regeneration. Also if die, it spawns two level 7 Hydras. Each level 7 Hydra spawns two level 3 Hydras.
    That makes it most powerful unit to face 1 vs 1. Only one unit which is capable of killing Hydra is Infernal Juggernaut. it has ability to spawn Infernal level 8 itself from sky, and they both combined can actually kill Hydra and its spawns, or Hydras can kill Infernals. Whoever wins, left at red health.

    ______________________________________________________
    Infernal level 8 only lose against those creatures level 9 and 10:
    Granite Golem
    Ancient Sasquatch
    Dragon Turtle
    Deeplord Revenant
    Ancient Hydra
    Magnataur Destroyer

    ______________________________________________________
    Elder Voidwalker Level 9 against:

    Win:
    Level8:
    Dark Wizard
    Berserk Elemental
    Centaur Khan
    Berserk Wildkin
    Polar Fulborg Elder Shaman
    Polar Fulborg Ursa Warrior
    Dire Mammoth
    Faceless One terror
    Blue Dragonspawn Overseer
    Revenant of the Depths
    Skeletal Orc Champion
    Sea Giant Behemoth
    Infernal machine
    Infernal
    Doom Guard
    Ice Revenant

    Level 9:
    Satyr Hellcaller
    Storm Wyrm
    Siege Golem
    Stormreaver Warlock

    Equal:
    Enraged Jungle Beast
    Death Revenant
    Against those two I won, but when switch side then I beat Voidwalker with them, and left about same HP as Void did when won, so it is hard to decide who is stronger. Depends

    Defeat:
    Level 8:
    Magnataur Reaver
    Maiden of Pain
    Infernal

    Level 9:
    Ancient Sasquatch
    Granite Golem
    Death Revenant
    Ancient Wendigo

    ______________________________________________________
    Troll Warlod Level 6 against:
    Brood Mother - Defeat (Tropp kills Spider, but two small spiders level 1 finished him)
    Dire Wolf - Defeat
    Draenei Seer - Defeat
    Enraged Wildkin - Defeat (Wildin is left at 59 HP)
    Eredar Diabolist - Equal (depends of how Diabolist uses spells, he can kill Troll, but will left at less than 50HP. Even if Troll kill Eredar, if under parasite, Troll will die after few seconds spawning voidwalker level 1)
    Furbolg Tracker - Defeat
    Greater Voidwalker - Defeat
    Murloc Mutant - Win
    Overlord - Win (Troll is left at about 10HP, one or two shots to get killed)
    Red Drake - Defeat (Drake is left at 34HP and Troll got first shot, so barely defeat)
    Rock Golem - Defeat
    Thunder Lizard - Win
    Vile Tempress - Win
    Elder Wendigo Sasquatch - Defeat
    Blue Dragonspawn Sorcereer - Defeat
    Elder Jungle Stalker - Defeat
    Elder Wendigo - Defeat
    Faceless One Trickster - ?
    Giant Polar Bear - Defeat
    Hydra - Defeat (they killed each other, but Hydra spawned smaller hydras upon death, so it won)
    Mu'gul Marauder - Defeat
    Polar Furbolg Tracker - Defeat
    Stormreaver Necrolyte - Defeat
    War Golem - Defeat
    Wraith - Win

    I will update this post as I do more tests in future, if I have time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  2. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    And here I was thinking that I'm the master of wasting my time... :D

    Jokes aside, it probably took quite a bit to test, so thanks for putting in the work :) And, if I might suggest something, I think this amount of data would be easier to read if you put it in a nice spreadsheet :)
     
  3. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    Does "Win" mean that Doom Guard wins, or that the appointed enemy wins?
     
  4. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    Oh yes it took some time because sometimes it was on red health, so I had to switch units, that I control unit which was victim and AI to be my unit. Some tests took several times.

    Oh, well I though of separating texts somehow, but I did nto have time because I already spend too much time on testing units. I will see somehow to make separation.

    Oh, Win means that my unit won, and defeat means that my unit lost.

    Oh guys, there is bug which I discussed with Dr Super Good.
    Eredar Warlock is only unit which uses Finger of Pain. (Archimonde uses Finger of Death I think which is more powerful and perhaps is not magical thus do not waste mana). Finger of pain is buged because it is allowed to attack spell immune units, but no damage is dealt. Eredar just shoots Golem for example, red electricity appears, mana is wasted but no damage is dealt. Also I shot myself with Finger of pain accidentally, because during fight, enemy creep was melee fighter, so I missed him with spell and hit my Eredar, which should not be possible. But in resistant skinned units, you get blue cursor (no attack) and it says ,,This unit has resistant skin". However it is bug in spell immune units.
    @Dr Super Good explained in chat this
    [02-54-37] [​IMG]Dr Super Good: spell immunity has a hidden effect that it actually reduces spell damage to 0
    [02-55-00] [​IMG]Dr Super Good: resistant skin is entirely a targeting thing, units with resistant skin still take spell damage
    [02-55-51] [​IMG]Dr Super Good: Finger of Pain and its counter part Finger of Death were meant to be OP as their last use case was simply being a pain to fight against in the campaign

    Also, I think I saw that Finger of Pain has 800 range which means that outranges towers and can attack them, so technically it can be used as artillery, but I need to test that further
     
  5. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Fascinating. You don't happen to run the "funny Warcraft" YouTube channel, do you? :p
     
  6. Misha

    Misha

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    round one, fight :cgrin:
     
  7. Jampion

    Jampion

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    Dr Super Good is right.
    There is ability type and damage type.
    Ability type decides whether you can target a unit (spell immune, ethereal).
    Damage type decides the amount of damage. (magic damage types deal 0 damage to spell immune units)

    Ability type is usually magical and can be set to universal by making the spell an ultimate. (ability is a hero abilty and has required level at 6. Other required levels >1 may work as well, I did not test)

    Damage type is fixed for each ability and is mostly magical and thus cannot damage spell immune units. So if you would make a normal ability like storm bolt an ultimate it could target spell immune units, but not damage them.
    For abilities that were intended to be ultimates the damage type was set to universal: Starfall, Stampede, Doom, ...

    For Finger of Pain ability type and damage type do not match, so you get this weird effect. Unifortunately we cannot alter damage type and can only change the ability type to universal.


    Did you use the 1600hp or the 1350hp version of the Doom Guard?


    Is there even any unit that can win against the Ancient Hydra? If I had to guess, I would say this is the strongest creep for 1v1.
     
  8. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    IIRC, the hydras tend to spawn smaller dudes on death. You count those as well or only the base unit?
     
  9. Jampion

    Jampion

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    Does not really matter. The hydra is extremely strong, because of its insane regeneration (25 hp per second) and a slowing attack. The enemy will have slowed attack speed making it even easier for the hydra to regenerate damage it takes.
    In larger battles regeneration is not as strong, because you can focus fire, but if only one unit attacks the hydra, it can regenerate huge amounts of damage over time.

    Hydra has 1500 hp, opponent has 50 dps (75 damage, 1.5 seconds cooldown is something a level 10 creep could have). Dps is reduced by slow (25%): 37.5 dps and armor (2 armor -> 11%): 33.4 dps. Now the regeneration negates 25 of the dps and you have 8.4 dps left. I don't have to say that it takes ages to kill a 1500 hp unit with 8.4 dps.
    1500/8.4 = 176.6
    This is around 3 minutes. In that time the hydra can deal around 10300 damage without taking the opponents armor or hydra's poison into consideration.
     
  10. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    @Jampion - so if I understood right, what you're basically saying is that nothing will do well enough in a 1v1 vs the Hydra to spawn the smaller hydras anyway? :)

    Now I'm actually curious myself. @MasterHaosis - Ancient Hydra next? :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  11. Jampion

    Jampion

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    Yes. I tried level 10 frost dragon, fully upgraded frost wyrm and chimaera as well as a level 10 blademaster.
    The Blademaster managed to defeat the first Hydra, if the Hydra is stupid enough to not use warstomp or focus illusions.
    If the Hydra is controlled by a player, there is now way the Blademaster can win.

    I did not try one of the reincarnation creeps, but I am pretty sure that their damage output is way to low to kill the Hydra fast enough.
     
  12. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    If you had posted this just a couple of weeks ago, I would have been freaking out in disbelief over that insane HP Regeneration rate. I learned about it & checked; lo & behold, you are right on the money.
     
  13. HappyTauren

    HappyTauren

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    wait why the $!@#ing !@#$ does ANCIENT HYDRA HAVE 25 HP REGEN????
     
  14. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    YES I KNOW

    Even the smallest ones have (IIRC) 4/sec HP Regen, which is twice as fast as the fastest standard among units (2 HP/sec for Undead on Blight)
     
  15. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Don't try to kill hydras with attrition, you will fail.
    I highly doubt that.
    @MasterHaosis: What do you say, test Ancient Hydra against all in 1v1 next?
     
  16. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    @Misha , it is indeed similar to mortal combat. Various powerful creatures fight to the death! :cgrin:

    1350HP
    Jampion. I think it is shorten from Champion.
    I see that you are very interested for this thread. And you very contributed to ,,science" here. We will keep doing this no worry. tests canot be stopped.

    Oh guys, you are professional, I admit you that. But I managed to kill Ancient Hydra with one unit. I wont tell you now which unit is it, you will have to wait this night perhaps, if I can, to write those newest tests in first post.
     
  17. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    So, I've found one too :)

    Infernal Juggernaut vs Ancient Hydra

    1) Infernal Juggernaut spawns the Infernal from his ability, targeting the position of Ancient Hydra.

    2) Hydra can't Devour either the Infernal or the Infernal Juggernaut.

    3) Hydra's War Stomp doesn't work on the Infernal.

    Results:

    1) If the Hydra attacks the Infernal, it gets absolutely destroyed (including smaller Hydras). Whether the Hydra uses its abilities or not doesn't matter as they don't work on the Infernal.

    2) If the Hydra attacks the Infernal Juggernaut and uses its abilities, it will still be defeated, but the smallest hydras will actually take down the Infernal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  18. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Wow, seriously?
     
  19. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    Yup, seriously. You're free to test it yourself if you don't believe me :)

    The way I did it is that I've made the Infernal Juggernaut neutral hostile and I commanded the Hydra.
    When the Hydra attacked the Juggernaut, I had a trigger that made the latter use the Infernal ability on the position of the Hydra. Since the Juggernaut only has this one ability and it's on a long cooldown, he was pretty much fighting to its fullest ability with just this one trigger and thus I was free to command the Hydra.

    Then I either focused fire the Infernal (without using War Stomp to avoid missing out on the attack time since War Stomp doesn't work on the Infernal anyway) or focused on the Juggernaut and used War Stomp on cooldown.

    The results are listed above.

    One scenario that I'm kinda curious, though, is what if I positioned the Hydra between the Infernal and the Juggernaut and used War Stomp to stun the Juggernaut, while focusing the Infernal... hm... :)

    Also, I'd be good if @MasterHaosis tests this as well :)
     
  20. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    @MasterBlaster DAMN YOU! YOU RUINED ALL FUN :cgrin:
    Yes, as he said. Infernal Juggernaut has ability to spawn Infernal, so technically level 10+8 is level 18, although Juggernaut without Infernal itself is much weaker, but they combined are powerful enough to take down any unit.
    AI hydra attacks Infernal, then Hydra got destroyed, two level 7 Hydras emerge and finish off Infernal. But get damaged because of Immolation and splash damage dealt by Juggernaut. So Juggernaut finishes them off, then smaller hydras spawns, which juggernaut destroys.

    Hydra manages to won, but that matter of special circumstances, which I did not allow second time. Actually depends of luck where smaller hydras spawns from Acient Hydra. So, Infernal and juggernaut can attack one hydra, while another is away thus do not get affected by perma immolation and splash. Also smaller hydras from level 7 hydras got spawned further away, not affected but I managed to kill them all, however one small hydra level 3 survived on red health, thus won. next time I managed infernal close to them to affect them all.
    I tested many times over and even put two AI players. And Infernal Juggernaut and level 8 Infernal won.