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[Altered Melee] Discussion - Warcraft III second expansion ideas

Discussion in 'Idea Factory' started by Lon-ami, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    So, what if Warcraft III had a second expansion?

    I had this idea lying around for years, and since I kinda went back into W3 during the confinement, I decided to give it another shot. That didn't last for long though, since I tried to make my own W3 map with a few of these changes, and predictably proceeded to hard-crash into the good old limitations of the World Editor. Eventually, I also found better things to do anyway, so I almost never got to finish it. But at long last, here it is.

    Hope you like reading, because there's a lot of it. Feel free to rewrite parts of it, or just write a whole new thing altogether. My goal is to have an interesting "what if" discussion, so the more ideas the better.

    And hey, if someone wants to try implementing these changes into the game, through a map or a mod, you're welcome.

    -----

    Premise: The year is 2003. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos released a few months ago. Its first expansion pack, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, has just released. The game has been successful enough to guarantee production for a second expansion, and you're in charge.

    Requirements: Expand the four playable races with new heroes and units, respecting the original themes as much as possible, and develop a new narrative that expands the scope of the Warcraft universe, introducing new characters and locations.

    Notes: Neither World of Warcraft nor any of the novels released after 2003 do exist. You might take ideas from them, but there is no need to respect their established canon.

    -----

    Features

    Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
    • Ten units per race, summoned units not included.
    • Three heroes per race.
    • Between nine and ten buildings per race, upgrades not included.
    • Thirteen tilesets.
    Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
    • Two new units per race, emphasizing magic users and flying movement, for a total of twelve units per race.
    • One new hero per race, plus eight (five at release) neutral heroes, recruited from a new neutral building, the tavern.
    • One new building per race, providing a race-exclusive item shop service.
    • Five new tilesets: Black Citadel, Icecrown, Outland, Ruins of Dalaran, and Sunken Ruins.
    Warcraft III: Heart of the Mists
    • Three new units per race, emphasizing cavalry and large creatures, for a total of fifteen units per race.
    • One new hero per race, plus four new neutral heroes.
    • Between zero and one new buildings per race, for a total of eleven buildings per race.
    • Ten new tilesets: Burning Steppes, Eldre'Thalas, Hinterlands Summer, Hinterlands Winter, Khaz Modan Summer, Khaz Modan Winter, Quel'Thalas, Silithus, Stranglethorn, and Tanaris.
    -----

    Campaign
    • Episode 1: Crown of Thorns - Undead Scourge
    • Episode 2: The Veiled Empire - Orcish Horde
    • Episode 3: Blood of the Forgotten - Night Elf Sentinels
    • Bonus Episode: The Black Prince - Human Alliance
    -----

    Human Alliance

    The two previous installments put the spotlight on humans and blood elves respectively, so I went with dwarves for the third, following a monster hunting theme. The human campaign would be a bonus episode, much like The Founding of Durotar, where you would accompany Brann Bronzebeard (Sharpshooter) and his party of hunters across southern Azeroth. Eventually, the story would progress into a conspiracy plot involving the return of Lord Prestor, the black dragon Deathwing on disguise, following a similar plot to that of Lady Katrana Prestor and Onyxia in World of Warcraft. Jaina Proudmoore (Archmage) would return as a playable character, having been imprisoned during a diplomatic mission to Stormwind, together with new characters such as Vereesa Windrunner (Ranger), Bolvar Fordragon (Paladin), and Magni Bronzebeard (Mountain King). Journey across Azeroth, Khaz Modan, and Lordaeron to find the truth about the mysterious noble trying to take over the throne of Stormwind.

    New units
    • Ballista: New baseline siege weapon unit. Specially effective against large creatures, ground or flying.
    • Mountaineer: Axe-throwing dwarf ram rider. Can climb cliffs up and down. Specially effective against air units.
    • Oliphant: Crew of two humans armed with longspears, riding an oliphant atop a palanquin. The Oliphant can use the Rampage skill to charge at enemies, swinging its tusks. Specially effective against cavalry.
    New hero
    • Sharpshooter: Dwarf agility hero armed with an advanced hunting rifle. These stalwart defenders of Ironforge roam the mountains of Khaz Modan, using camouflage to ambush their targets. They're accompanied by a loyal raccoon pet, able to scout and carry items for them, and use various traps to immobilize their targets.
    Changes to classic units
    • The original Footman skill, Defend, can now be used by Militia and Spell Breakers as well.
    • The Peasant transformation into Militia is no longer temporary, and can remain active for as long as you want. Move your unit to a nearby town hall to turn it on and off.
    • The Knight can now transform into a Crusader, swapping his damage type from normal to siege. Move your unit to a nearby Barracks to turn the transformation on and off.
    • The Spell Breaker now follows an adept/master training like the rest of the spellcasting units. Control Magic is unlocked upon research of the adept training, and Magic Sentry, a new skill which provides visibility of a target enemy unit, is unlocked upon research of the master training.
    • The Flying Machine has been renamed back to the Gyrocopter.
    • The Mortar Team can now transform into an Engineer Team, losing its ranged attack in exchange of an enhanced repair ability. Move your unit to a nearby Workshop to turn the transformation on and off.
    • The Siege Engine has been renamed back to the Steam Tank, and has been redesigned into a powerful endgame unit, able to attack both ground and air targets effectively. Steam Tanks can now transport units as well.
    Changes to classic buildings
    • The Barracks now trains Footmen, Riflement, Knights, and Ballistas.
    • The Gryphon Aviary has been renamed to the Royal Menagerie, and now trains Mountaineers, Oliphants, Dragonhawk Riders, and Gryphon Riders.
    • The Blacksmith has been redesigned as a support building, and can now repair nearby mechanical units.
    • The original tower upgrade, Magic Sentry, has been removed.
    • The Arcane Tower now requires an Arcane Sanctum to be built, and gains invisible unit detection upon research of Spell Breaker Adept Training.
    • The original Arcane Tower skill, Reveal, has been removed.
    • The original Mortar Team skill, Flare, can now be used by the Cannon Tower as well.
    • The Scout Tower can now be upgraded to the Signal Tower, a new support building with greater sight range and no visibility penalties at night. Requires a Royal Menagerie to be built.
    -----

    Orcish Horde

    All three orc campaigns so far have dealt with the orcs of the New Horde, so I chose to move away from them and focus on the trolls and their fallen empires instead. The troll campaign would be the second episode of the expansion's trilogy, and herald the return of Zul'jin (Troll Warlord), the famous forest troll who made his debut on Warcraft II. After the events of the undead campaign, the trolls of Zul'Aman would abandon their ancestral homeland, following an ancient prophecy that would lead them into the lost kingdom of Zandalar, where legend says a new emperor would rise to lead all troll races. Zul'jin would meet other characters in his journey, including Vol'jin (Shadow Hunter), chieftain of the Darkspear tribe from the New Horde, whom he would recruit and mentor, trying to lure him away from the treacherous orcs, plus Anub'arak (Crypt Lord), commander of the Scourge forces, surrounded on one side by the ice trolls and on the other by the servants of the Old Gods, who would form an uneasy alliance with the warlord. In the wake of the final ascension, greed would overcome Zul'jin, and Vol'jin would take the mantle of emperor instead, leading the trolls to a final battle against the aqir.

    New units
    • Blade Guard: Male troll raptor rider armed with a polearm and a shield. Can leap forward, jumping over small units and cliff gaps. Specially effective against ranged units. Can be upgraded to Temple Guard.
    • Brutosaur: Gargantuan longneck saurian, armed with a palanquin full of heavy troll firearms. Can transport units, but his height and size makes it vulnerable to aerial and siege attacks.
    • Blood Serpent: Flying unit ridden by a female troll blood fanatic. Gets stronger when nearby units receive damage.
    New hero
    • Troll Warlord: Troll strength hero armed with a pair of axes. Natural leaders of the troll tribes, they are able to fire a stream of hatchets at their enemies right before engaging in melee combat. Nearby allies are boosted with their powerful aura, driving them to slaughter his enemies. The eldest warlords are able to tame and ride a ravasaur in combat, an imposing bipedal monstrosity who can chomp lesser saurians in half.
    Changes to classic units
    • Tauren have been renamed to Tauren Braves.
    • Witch Doctors can now be upgraded to Voodoo Priests.
    • Wind Riders have been renamed back to Wyvern Riders.
    Changes to classic buildings
    • The Barracks now trains Grunts, Troll Headhunters, Tauren Braves, and Demolishers.
    • The original Troll Headhunter upgrade, Berserker Upgrade, has been renamed to Blood Rites, and now affects Witch Doctors and Blade Guards as well.
    • The original Bestiary has been split in two: The Bestiary and the Aviary.
    • The Bestiary now trains Raiders, Blade Guards, Kodo Beasts, and Brutosaurs.
    • The Aviary trains Troll Batriders, Wyvern Riders, and Blood Serpents.
    • The Tauren Totem has been redesigned as a support building, providing an aura effect to nearby allied units and buildings.
    -----

    Undead Scourge

    The undead campaign kicks off as the first episode of the expansion's trilogy, continuing the story of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. The Forsaken forces led by Sylvanas Windrunner (Dark Ranger) and Varimathras (Dread Lord) have surrounded Kel'Thuzad (Lich) and his Scourge forces in Stratholme. Far too fortified for a mere frontal assault, strange whispers lead her to find a new ally among the prisoners, an undead nerubian by the name of Xal'atath (Apothecary), who suggest an alternative strategy. Moving into the ruins of Quel'Thalas to flank the city from the north, Sylvanas meets the blood elf resistance, led by prince Kael'thas Sunstrider (Blood Mage) and her very own sister, Vereesa Windrunner (Ranger). Joining forces, they assault Straholme by land, sea, and air. Victory at her grasp, the blood elves betray her, their prince having formed a secret pact with the demons. Kel'Thuzad escapes, and Sylvanas is saved by Xal'atath, who carries her damaged body to an ancient sanctum deep beneath Tirisfal Grove. There, fueled by rage, she pleads loyalty to the Old Gods, and rises to lead a new army of nerubians reborn into aqir, marching back into her ancient homeland and slaughtering what little remained of her own former people. However, right before the final act of vengeance, her old self fights against the new whispers and takes back control, sacrificing her new life to save her sister and other elven renegades, who had fled after opposing Kael's demonic pact. Xal'atath is amused by the betrayal, for it was foretold by his masters. The swarm now moves east, to the homeland of his people's ancient enemy, the trolls.

    New units
    • Crypt Horror: Undead nerubian armed with bladed appendages. Specially effective against ground units.
    • Crypt Vizier: Undead nerubian spellcaster. Can infest either allies or enemies with parasites, summoning maggots upon death of the target.
    • Terrormaw: Gigantic undead siege wurm. Can store corpses, and consume them to attack at range. Specially effective against ground units and buildings.
    New hero
    • Apothecary: Undead nerubian agility hero, his body upgraded with limbs and other parts collected from his experiments. Sorcerers of the Spider Kingdom in life, the apothecaries are the original craftsmen of the Scourge, and seldom appear in battle, preferring to use their creations in combat instead. Discontent with the biddings of the new Lich King, some of them have found a new master, one who could revert undeath and restore their ancient empire.
    Changes to classic units
    • Acolytes no longer need to interact with a Sacrificial Pit to transform into Shades, and can now transform automatically after researching the new Sacrificial Daggers upgrade.
    • Crypt Fiends can now be transformed into Crypt Horrors after researching the new Putrid Chrysalis upgrade.
    • The original Crypt Fiend skill, Burrow, can now be further upgraded to allow underground movement, and can now be used by Crypt Viziers and Terrormaws as well. Burrowed units now gain fortified armor.
    • The original meat wagon upgrade, Exhume Corpses, now affects Terrormaws as well.
    • The original Necromancer skill, Raise Dead, has been renamed to Raise Skeleton Warriors.
    • The original Necromancer upgrade, Skeletal Mastery, has been removed.
    • The original Necromancer skills, Unholy Frenzy and Cripple, have been replaced by two new skills, Raise Skeleton Archers and Raise Skeletal Mages. The two previous skills have been moved into the Crypt Vizier.
    • The attack type of Skeletal Mages has been changed from Piercing to Magic.
    • Gargoyles are now considered mechanical while Stone Form is active, and can thus be repaired.
    Changes to classic buildings
    • The Crypt now trains Ghouls, Crypt Fiends, and Meat Wagons.
    • The Slaughterhouse now trains Abominations, Obsidian Statues, and Terrormaws.
    • The Temple of the Damned now trains Necromancers, Banshees, and Crypt Viziers.
    • The Boneyard now trains Gargoyles and Frost Wyrms.
    • The Sacrificial Pit has been redesigned as a support building, and can now consume a nearby unit, recovering part of its initial cost.
    • The Ziggurat can now be upgraded to the Plague Tower, a new defensive building equipped with a magical censer and armed with siege attacks.
    • The original meat wagon and abmination upgrade, Disease Cloud, now affects Plague Towers as well.
    -----

    Night Elf Sentinels

    The third and final episode of the expansion's trilogy narrates the journey of Shandris Feathermoon (Priestess of the Moon) as she leads the Sentinel army into the southlands of Kalimdor, following the trail of an ancient evil. During her campaign, she will meet the night elves of Eldre'Thalas, a group of kaldorei who survived the Sundering, lead by none other than Shandris's own first love, the famous commander Jarod Shadowsong (Highlord). Tensions won't take long to arise, for these night elves still clench to the ancient ways of their people, wielding the same arcane magic that once nearly doomed the world. Lady Vashj (Sea Witch) and her naga pull the strings from the shadows, planning to bolster their ranks with the addition of these crafty elves. Even their own commander will falter, for her own sister (Maiev Shadowsong, Warden) is still alive, and hostage to the naga. Meanwhile, the ancient aqir city of Ahn'Qiraj lies south, dormant, waiting for someone to awaken the horrors within. In the final battle against the Old Gods, the night elves would join the trolls and defeat the ancient enemies of their people together.

    New units
    • Rooksguard: Male night elf heavy warrior armed with a spear and a shield. Can kneel to hold position more efficiently. The long reach of his spear allows him to attack through other units. Specially effective against melee ground units.
    • Druid of the Antler: Female night elf spellcaster armed with a bow. Can blind enemy units, shield against ranged projectiles, and transform into a stag. Ranged attacks on night elf form, and melee attacks on stag form. Specially effective against ranged ground units.
    • Chimaera Rider: Chimaera mounted by a Rooksguard. Capable of attacking other flying units. Specially effective against large creatures and buildings.
    New hero
    • Highlord: Male night elf strenght hero armed with a spear and a shield. Commanders of the kaldorei armies during the fabled reign of Queen Azshara, their role al but vanished upon the rise of the Sentinels. The tradition was well preserved among the halls of the hidden city of Eldre'Thalas, and the highlords rise once again to reclaim their lost glory. Highlords carry a latent greatsword at their back, which they can choose to wield once they grow powerful enough.
    Changes to classic units
    • The original night elf skill, Shadow Meld, can now be used by Rooksguards as well.
    Changes to classic buildings
    • The Ancient of Lore now trains Druids of the Talon, Druids of the Claw, and Druids of the Antler.
    • The item shop service of the Ancient of Wonders has been moved into a new building, the Barrow Den.
    • The Ancient of Wonders has been renamed to the Ancient of Earth, and now trains Dryads, Rooksguards, and Mountain Giants.
    • The Ancient of Wind now trains Hippogryphs, Faerie Dragons, and Chimaeras.
    • The Chimaera Roost has been renamed to the Skyward Haven, and has been redesigned as a support building which provides air visibility at a great sight range.
    -----

    Neutral

    New heroes
    • Arcanist: Female night elf intelligence hero armed with a grimoire. These spellcasters served as the royal archivists of the ancient Kaldorei Empire. Nowadays only a few of them remain, in charge of the libraries of Eldre'Thalas. Specializes in mana restoration and support.
    • Elder Sage: Male draenei agility hero armed with two sickles. Based on Akama from The Frozen Throne. Specializes in stealth and guerrilla warfare.
    • Inquisitor: Female human intelligence hero armed with a greatstaff. With the advent of paladins, these priestesses moved on to lead the now neutral Church of the Holy Light. Nowadays, they're tasked with finding demonic elements infiltrated in mortal societies. Specializes in healing and support.
    • Warlock: Male eredar intelligence hero. Based on Archimonde from Reign of Chaos. Specializes in heavy damage, and can also mass teleport allied units towards his position.
    -----

    Well, there goes my take, hope you liked it! :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  2. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    An interesting read, to be honest. Also had something similar in mind, but biggest problem I had with addition of so many units, is that Blizzard, pretty much completely filled every unit role that was missing with The Frozen Throne. You are just bloating races with redundant units. Why should they add Ballista when Humans already got Mortar Team, for example?

    Only way they could have done it is, maybe, with adding 1 completely new race. Like Naga. I was always frustrated as a kid because I couldn't play Naga in normal, melee maps. I remember playing that "Brothers Stormrage" dozens of times, so just I could play with Naga tech-tree.

    I remember reading somewhere that they had plans on making 2 more additional races, while Warcraft 3 was in development. Demons and Goblins. That is a reason why they decided not to include Goblins in the modern Horde.

    Back to the topic. At maximum, I could see adding 1 additional unit to the existing races and 1 new hero. Also, I would follow WoW lore more.
     
  3. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Ballista is anti-air, which mortar team isn't. Mortar team has also anti-unit utility due to fragmentation shards, which ballista doesn't. None of the my new unit ideas are redundant at all.

    Naga are unviable, due to the water movement. You could remove it, but then they would stop being naga.

    The only way I could see them introduced into melee games is through mercenary camps.

    That was back in the alpha, when the game was closer to an RPG than an RTS.
     
  4. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    Well, every race needs to have obvious disadvantages. You can't fill all of the blank spots in races. Also, every existing race has already 12+ units, and just throwing more units for the sake of just adding new things is not a smart idea in my opinion.

    Honestly, I completely disagree with that logic about Naga. It is like saying: "Night Elves are threehuggers, remove Treant buildings from them, and they are not Night Elves any more". Not really, they just can't utilize that strategy, but they are still Night Elves/Naga. Naga are also fan favorites, I think most custom race maps out there are actually maps where people tried out their take on Naga race. Hell, Ultimate Battle has 2 Naga race concepts.

    I was talking about amount of races they were planning, not about genre direction of the game.
     
  5. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Well, they do have new roles. I think they're pretty decent and open the way for new strengths, but new weaknesses as well. Don't be so short-sighted, specially when you're advocating for whole new races in the first place lmao.

    You can't give a whole main race amphibian movement and expect it to be balanced. In fact, Blizzard didn't, that's why the Naga Sea Witch can't swim in melee maps.
     
  6. Ulfsire

    Ulfsire

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    These are some cool ideas. The theme of adding a type of unit role to all the races is definitely faithful to what blizzard did in TFT.

    Might want to change this to Druid of the Hoof / Deer form - Stags and Antlers are specific to male deer, unless the sex change is intended of course, which is totally in the realm of druidism haha
     
  7. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Reading this post takes me back to a time, years ago, when I'd rabidly seek out & read anything I could about custom factions, custom heroes, and new versions of Warcraft. I loved it then & I love it now, because you truly seem to care & embody & present the Spirit of Warcraft.

    I know that sounds really sappy, but I'm just being honest here. So many people want to Change what Warcraft is... All I've ever wanted to do (& thus see) was More Warcraft. More units, more heroes, more factions; more of the same cool stuff I'd come to love (despite the nightmare it would be to balance).

    It's something I've striven to do for years now, and while it's true that Ideas/Writings Are Cheap, there's a special sort of inspiring magic to something like this that really brings me back. I really appreciate that. : )

    ~~~

    This is going on the To-Do list, because I really do want to respond more specifically to your suggestions (which are awexome (ESPECIALLY THE FOCUS ON TROLLSSSSS)), but I can't right now, so here's hoping I get to it before the end of 2020. x/
     
  8. noob

    noob

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    The Terrormaw together with meat catapults in undead presents similar problems to having both siege tanks and reavers in the same race: you have units that are very similar in terms of role and are mostly distinguished by mechanics which is not enough (you usually want more significantly different roles than just "siege and slight support/antistatic ground units(ex firing ranged units) vs siege and also harms mobile ground units" even if both have very different ways of working).
    So I suggest you increase the difference in role (which is more important than the difference in mechanic in terms of avoiding decisions like "I will use both for the same objective so I will pick the one I have already the building for").
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  9. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Oh, believe me, I tried applying the changes above in the editor (not the new units, the changes to the old ones) during quarantine boredom, but I hard crashed against the wall of limitations. For example, necromancer having two different summoning skills is hell, it only gets worse with four, and I didn't really feel like writing shitty workarounds with dummy objects to make it work :I.

    And yeah, I pretty much share your sentiments there. Looking forward to said reply :D.

    Terrormaws consume corpses, Meat Wagons produce corpses, so there's a synergy there that encourages you to mix instead of produce a single type of unit. Also, the first is fleshy, and the second is mechanical. The difference should be similar to night elves' Glaive Thrower and Stone Giant, sort of.

    And still, you're bound to have multiple units for each role after a certain point, I don't see anything wrong with that; as long as one doesn't outperform another and all units remain useful, of course.
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Huh, weird. I can see the issue if you were trying to use multiple versions of Raise Dead, but the Beastmaster exists; you should be able to pile multiple summon abilities on a single unit and have them work fine...
     
  11. stein123

    stein123

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    I'm sure you can't mass train beast masters : p
     
  12. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    That's the problem, it's x3 raise dead (warrior, archer, mage), I need corpse usage yes or yes. I can do x2 using the crypt lord skill, but that's it (and that one does weird stuff anyway).

    Most of the other changes (read top post) were impossible to do properly too :(.
     
  13. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Hm.

    Well if you are willing to compromise your creative vision just a tad, I think it can still work... You can use the two different corpse-using Raise Dead's (Necromancer & Crypt Lord), and utilize the TFT upgrade that lets them be leveled up to summon two different kinds (instead of two of one kind).
    Ability 1 could Raise Warriors & Archers, Ability 2 could Raise Champions (the Orc Grunt-type skeletons) & Mages.

    That way to have an escalation of power, "all four" kinds covered, & a melee-and-ranged pair for both versions.

    (Kinda begs the question, though... Maybe there's a reason they don't give standard, massable units multiple summon abilities?)
     
  14. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Nah, I never planned to develop it anyway, I just tried for the sake of it. No idea if it can be programmed properly though, but I'm pretty sure it can't be done through the object editor.

    Anyway, as long as summoned units get decent counters, I don't see the problem with necromancers having three options to choose from. Witch Doctors have x3 totem summoning abilities, so there's precedent of casters having a single type of skill.
     
  15. noob

    noob

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    Totem summoning only is a way to deliver a spell effect (ex: aoe healing or aoe stun or detection).
    Summons are creatures that have more than just 50 hp and a spell effect so they are not just a way to deliver a spell.
     
  16. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Quoting myself and my own naga race idea from another thread. It's balanced towards official TFT races and their number of units, but I'll leave it here in case I'm inspired to upgrade it.

    Another self-quotation, this time for an incomplete aqir/silithid race.

    Well, as long as those summoned units can fulfill different roles, I fail to see the problem. Still, you're right they might be a bit boring to play with only summons at hand.

    What about a new skill for necromancers, that lets them "explode" their skeletons? Some kind of ranged spell, either AoE or single-target, that destroys target summoned skeleton units, dealing damage to nearby enemies. Then Witch Doctors could be given a similar ability too, letting them explode their totems instead.

    It doesn't have to be damage, the explosion effect could change depending on the exploded summon. For example, exploding a Skeletal Mage could heal nearby allied units instead.

    I could always let necromancers keep Unholy Frenzy and Cripple, leaving them with five skills in total, but then I would need to make new stuff for the Crypt Vizier, and I don't have any cohesive ideas left. More than four skills per unit also feels like overkill, and I really want to have three different skeletal summons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  17. noob

    noob

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    I think you could add new themed necromancy spells to the necromancer to replace the excess summoning spells like for example a spell that makes destroy targeted unit you control in order to reduce nearby opponent damage(maybe call it "demoralize") or a spell that uses a corpse to make the necromancer regain mana(so that if you end up with corpse excesses you can use them) or a spell that makes the targeted ally gain a temporary extra pool of hp(possibly too similar to antimagic shell) or whatever you figure out.
    Do you have a map with that content?(you made a long pause in posting so I assume you did work on making it concrete)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  18. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    I really want the different summons, since each fulfills a different role. I'm not very convinced on having different effects, since I'd rather have an Area of Effect skill (pretty much the same size as Dispel Magic, from the Priest unit), and it would feel weird to explode multiple skeletons of different types at once, each having their own side-effects.

    The explode skill itself would either deal damage, stun enemies, or recover mana for the necromancer who casted it. For starters, only skeletons you control would be affected by it and explode, but giving it different effects (not the explosion) when said skeletons are owned by an ally or an enemy could be interesting too.

    Plenty options, as you see.

    I tried implementing some of these changes myself, but I ran into multiple limitations so I just gave up. So yeah, the ideas won't abandon paper; unless someone else likes the thread and wants to try himself.

    It's just for visuals, WoW's Travel Form gives antlers to female druids as well, so nothing to worry about.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  19. noob

    noob

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    What did you struggle to create?
    I can possibly give you tips on how to realise what you have an hard time doing.
     
  20. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    My primary goal was to implement the changes to existing units I described in the main post. I came back to the editor due to Reforged hype but then we all know what happened. So yeah, I haven't opened the editor in almost a year lol. Still, implementing this was never the goal, just some healthy game design discussion. Coming back to the editor was a good opportunity to try to implement these but then problems in one hand and Reforged fiasco in the other, I just stopped.

    Few issues I remember, I didn't look too deep into them since I was mostly prototyping:
    • The last problem I ran into was necromancer not being able to summon different units at once, since there aren't enough skills for it. I can recycle Carrion Beetles from the Crypt Lord for the second skill, but I don't have anything for the third. I haven't used the editor seriously since almost a decade, but I remember people using dummies as a way to bypass these limitations (skill summons dummy, dummy casts the real skill). I would prefer to do it without weird tricks, but it might not be possible at all. Also, the autocast does weird stuff.
    • Another change is certain units being able to transform after interacting with a building. It's based on the peasant -> militia transformation, except now there's no time limit, and you can transform back and forth freely. The Mortar Kit and the Knight have this ability as well, by interacting with different buildings.
    • I wanted the Blacksmith building to be able to repair nearby units, but just giving it the peasant repair ability felt way too clunky. I couldn't get the skill to play the training animation either (so the building looks like it's doing something while it repairs).
    • Burrowed movement for undead units, I don't remember getting to look at it, so not sure if it's easily doable. Shouldn't be a problem, since it's just a typical transformation after all, but the upgrade should change the unit you transform into (without the upgrade you can't move while burrowed, so I would need two different burrowed forms, one idle, and another which can move). No idea if anything similar has been done before.
    I guess there's no way to make your own skills efficiently, since that part of the game isn't really available through the editor. I know there are lot of crazy spells out there, but as far as I know they're mostly offensive skills that don't have any special interaction requirements. Never got to code any complex skills myself, so no idea.

    At this point I'm just curious if those things can be done easily, not really interested on actively developing it as a real project. It was more of an exercise on game design. If the changes are easier to implement than I thought, then I might look at it again, but I don't want to spend hours trying to make it work, I don't care that much about turning them into a real thing.