Detached rep?

[Mr. Bob]

As I said rep should stay. But I agree with point that it should have different name (not lolcrap name liek "E-penises") because "reputation" doesn't fit, something like "Gold Coins" "XP" would fit. Maybe "Crystals" since rep icons are gems.

Besides over half of people on THW make resources, help others for rep, since they are addicted of it. Removing it would drastically reduce resource making and helping rate.

People who help for rep don't generally give very good help. Nor do they make good resources. As I said before. People who give good help are the people who actually want to help you. Likewise, people who make good resources are the ones that like making resources.

 

[DeadZero]

I would prefer having strict rep, because then people know what they are specifically receiving +rep for.

Probably a bit late to say but, you already get the option to send a little message with the rep you give, isn't that enough?

 

[Dragonson]

I would love to level up to a level 5 mapper because I had the XP to do so

XP Bar for president!
Anyways... saying that the people with alot of rep doesen't want rep removed 'cause that would shrink their glory is...
Not too reasoned.
People with that much rep are KNOWN around the hive.
They don't NEED rep to show everyone that they're awesome.
'cause they've allready done it!

 

[HailFireer]

Soft. People still locate post to spam rep, so that doesn't help. Spread rep some more helps, but sometimes its annoying when a guy helps you a lot, and you just want to give him 1 more rep but you cant

 

[Linaze]

You are wrong. I said I find them pretty, and that-is-that. Got it?

So if the rep-images were uglier, you wouldn't mind rep being removed?

 

[Dragonson]

Heh, Nice argument.
Anyways, i'm sure what Elenai means is that theire "fun to have".

 

[DeadZero]

So if the rep-images were uglier, you wouldn't mind rep being removed?

Did he say that the only reason he liked it was because it's pretty? No, he just said it was pretty.

 

[Elenai]

No Linaze, I would not, I'd just make different ones.

 

[BlinkforFear]

Possible names:
-Awesome Factor
-XP
-Hive-bucks (Hivorz, Hivuros, etc. etc., you get the point)
-Orbs - something plain and simple and calling it what it really could work, If you do this then the old gems would probably be the best
-Credits - seems perfectly fine to me if you distinguish which of the 2 meanings its supposed to be
-Gratitude

My vote is for hive rupees, I think it would satisfy everyone. A dumb noob would mistake the word rupee for ruby and think he actually got something. Meanwhile everyone that doesn't care for rep knows that in real life rupees are worth nothing. (compared to USD) So pretty much a smart person would know that they gained hardly anything (E-Penis) ... what who said that? And a dumb person would know that that they gained a shiny "ruby"

 

[Hakeem]

Repees? Repeen?

 

[Dragonson]

Well, using valuta names for it sounds abit wrong in my opinion.
I'd rather just have "Hive Points".

 

[HailFireer]

Ye valuates wont be that good. I don't really see the need to change the name, cuz rep is a standard on many forums. And if you're not a new guy to internet then it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
People don't look at its name tho, just at the quantity.

 

[Linaze]

Since no one seems to give a damn about the big minority that wants rep removed, I'll switch side, from now on, I want rep to stay. However, I want the system changed... completely.

1. Reset everyone's rep to 0.
2. Perhaps rename it.
3. Unallow people to give rep to each other.
4. Reputation should come from other sources, for example contests and donation, probably some other ways (director's cut resources or so).
5. Tada, rep now means something.

 

[krisserz]

Reputation should come from other sources, for example contests and donation, probably some other ways (director's cut resources or so).

So help is useless?

 

[shamanyouranus]

Hey guys, lets rename rep to "gold" or something.
And then we could make it so that for every download one of your resoources get, you get 1 gold, and you get gold for getting higher ratings on your resources and stuff. You would also get gold from making threads that have lots of posts in them and such.

SEE? IT'S [rainbow]BRILLIANT[/rainbow]!

We could make it so that when you download resources, it costs you a certain amount of gold based on its rating and download count. So it would cost you gold to "buy" a model, and the author would make a small profit off of it. SEE? SEE?

See? SEE? C!??! This way having a lot of gold wouldn't make you look popular, it would just make you look like a mizer, and having not many goldzez could mean that you just download a lot of stuff. And this would encourage people to help out, instead of just flying in and downloading crap, then leaving.

SEE?! I emmit an aura of [rainbow]brilliance[/rainbow].

 

[krisserz]

Hey guys, lets rename rep to "gold" or something.
And then we could make it so that for every download one of your resoources get, you get 1 gold, and you get gold for getting higher ratings on your resources and stuff. You would also get gold from making threads that have lots of posts in them and such.
SEE? IT'S BRILLIANT!
We could make it so that when you download resources, it costs you a certain amount of gold based on its rating and download count. So it would cost you gold to "buy" a model, and the author would make a small profit off of it. SEE? SEE?
See? SEE? C! This way having a lot og gold wouldn't make you look popular, it would just make you look like a mizer, and having not many goldzez could mean that you just download a lot of stuff. SEE?! I emmit an aura of brilliance.

I some way I like the idea ^^ But that won`t allow unregistred users to download a stuff...

But hhmm, let`s say that unregistred users have like 3 downloads daily limits xP

 

[Linaze]

So help is useless?

Helping for rep is retarded.

 

[shamanyouranus]

I some way I like the idea ^^ But that won`t allow unregistred users to download a stuff...

But hhmm, let`s say that unregistred users have like 3 downloads daily limits xP

LOLZ NO! We kuld just maek it so they start off with a surtin uhmount.
SEEE?!?!?!?!

 

[BlinkforFear]

well I have another idea.... we could have a rep percentage.
The basic set up would be...
Dumb post?

no votes yet

good post!

So if someone had a good post worthy of rep and some one clicked on the smiley face they would be at 100% rep...

100%

Then if they posted a bad post and some one clicked on the frown face then he would go to 50% rep...

50%

This means that some one that has been here for 1 year can have the same amount of rep as some one who has been here 3 years. Yet if you have... how can i put it number rep? The person who has been here for three years will have 3x the amount of random rep from idiots. Though while this may solve some problems it may create some... Like not being able to look at pretty gems.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Since no one seems to give a damn about the big minority that wants rep removed, I'll switch side, from now on, I want rep to stay. However, I want the system changed... completely.

1. Reset everyone's rep to 0.
2. Perhaps rename it.
3. Unallow people to give rep to each other.
4. Reputation should come from other sources, for example contests and donation, probably some other ways (director's cut resources or so).
5. Tada, rep now means something.

1: Take a look at the poll, I would say the "damn majority" would prefer it be kept, and don't suddenly say that's just newbs, take a look at who voted.
2: The system you proposed isn't really rep any more (once again rep is misnomer). It's just renaming award icons.
3: We all know rep means absolutely nothing, so why make it mean something when there's ways to get things that actually mean something (like being generally useful at something)?

Final Verdict:
Keep awards icons award icons, and keep rep what it is, just rename it so this whole "My reputation is awesome" paradox goes away.

Offtopic:
Lol, this whole system you proposed seems like "Socialized Rep"

 

[Elenai]

So basically Linaze, you want to take all the fun out of rep, and replace it with something...exceedingly not fun that already has been proposed before (by WILLTHEALMIGHTY and Myself by the way), and already semi-exists in the form of award icons.

Rep is now quite literally "For Fun". Award icons are for serious business.

Out of curiosity though...Why are you so intently serious on making it 'mean something' when it doesn't really matter that much at all these days? >_>

Like...seriously? Make everyone's rep zero? I suspect ulterior motives here.

As for renaming it...I could see that...just needs to be a catchy name, since "Rep" is pretty much the catchy nick name already.

 

[Mr. Bob]

So basically Linaze, you want to take all the fun out of rep, and replace it with something...exceedingly not fun that already has been proposed before (by WILLTHEALMIGHTY and Myself by the way), and already semi-exists in the form of award icons.

Rep is now quite literally "For Fun". Award icons are for serious business.

Out of curiosity though...Why are you so intently serious on making it 'mean something' when it doesn't really matter that much at all these days? >_>

Like...seriously? Make everyone's rep zero? I suspect ulterior motives here.

As for renaming it...I could see that...just needs to be a catchy name, since "Rep" is pretty much the catchy nick name already.

It's stupid to say rep is for fun. Even if it is for fun.

In other words, regardless of what it is 'meant' for, people will treat you according to your rep a lot of times.

Arguing that it should mean something, or that it means nothing is retarded.

 

[Elenai]

I have yet to have worshiping throngs of fans bowing at my feet asking me to take their beautiful, golden haired, blue-eyed, virgin daughters and raise up tribes of mighty supermen to rule the earth in golden spleandour due to my vast wealth of orbees.

...yet.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

It's stupid to say rep is for fun. Even if it is for fun.

In other words, regardless of what it is 'meant' for, people will treat you according to your rep a lot of times.

Arguing that it should mean something, or that it means nothing is retarded.

Which is exactly why the name should be changed, so it doesn't replace your actual Reputation

For serious things use Award icons, for fun use your rep equivalent

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I have yet to have worshipping throngs of fans bowing at my feet asking me to take their beautiful, golden haired, blue-eyed, virgin daughters and raise up tribes of mighty superladyboys to rule the earth in golden splendour due to my vast wealth of orgies.

...yet.

*cough-Aryanwannabe-cough*

But just to say this: Reputation started all nice and tight, but with growing communities, the rules must be stricter too, which didn't occur here recently. Reputation is now used for epeen purposes only frankly, and there is no one here who disagree with this, except Elenai off course, since he's a random twat.

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite- ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

But just to say this: Reputation started all nice and tight, but with growing communities, the rules must be stricter too, which didn't occur here recently. Reputation is now used for epeen purposes only frankly, and there is no one here who disagree with this, except Elenai off course, since he's a random twat.

And ladies and gentlemen, please see what's behind door number 2 - iiiiiiiiiiits the 50% majority that things rep should be kept

 

[Mr. Bob]

I have yet to have worshiping throngs of fans bowing at my feet asking me to take their beautiful, golden haired, blue-eyed, virgin daughters and raise up tribes of mighty supermen to rule the earth in golden spleandour due to my vast wealth of orbees.

...yet.

It doesn't have to be worship. It's the general attitude. And, it doesn't have to be from people without rep.

Lots of prominent figures on the Hive will treat other prominent figures differently than the common dude.

 

[PurgeandFire]

Without reputation, it will still go down to big posters. The worship won't go away easily. Might as well name everyone "AnonymousUser####" to remove it or at least stop it a little. =P

I think I'd rather have the respect depend on reputation than post count, because at least some portion of it is usually credibility (except for anyone who has more than half their posts in off-topic). Because that would be probably what people would turn to next. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Without reputation, it will still go down to big posters. The worship won't go away easily. Might as well name everyone "AnonymousUser####" to remove it or at least stop it a little. =P

I think I'd rather have the respect depend on reputation than post count, because at least some portion of it is usually credibility (except for anyone who has more than half their posts in off-topic). Because that would be probably what people would turn to next. But that's just my opinion.

As I said, restrict post count to the user profile.

And, people will never view post count as they do rep. Rep is far too pretty. If your a big poster, it means you have no life.

 

[wereguy2]

I say remove the actual rep numeric counter, but put in a system that still lets people show their appreciation of something using a "Hard" system.
What I am suggesting is to pretty much "Disable" everyone's rep.

 

[Dragonson]

Look...
If you ask me, which you are since this thread is the purpose of asking people their opinion on REP, REP, IS, COOL.
As you can see on the Poll, the majority likes REP, and wants it to stay, and most of those people want it to be less serious.
Giving it a Graphical Redo might make sense, since change is allways nice (XP BAR! O.ô).

I personally don't understand people who want rep removed or the system changed.
Has rep killed your father or something? :S
I don't see it ruining anybody's life, really.
If you're complaining about how people use it, and how it's wrong in diffirent ways and should be fixed, then remember:
We're on THE INTERNET!
The only things that aren't used in ways they weren't originally intended to (even if theese ways are only 10% diffirent from what they were originaly intended to) are REALLY BORING THINGS.
And really, some people like having abit of rep to show "I've been here for some time." or "I've done some cool things here!"
If you set out a Poll that everyone on the hive has to vote in before they can log on that asks "Do you want your Rep to be reset to 0? Yes or No?" I'm pretty sure what the majority would be. :/

 

[wereguy2]

What is the practical point of a system that is designed to gauge someone's helpfulness if it is abused all the time?
You see people who have a negative influence on the site with lots of rep, that's not right.

Oh, and FYI, the majority of this site is... Well, not too bright, that is a fact.

 

[Dragonson]

They're still the majority
And don't tell me THW doesn't need these people.
That would truly be "Not too bright".

And who are theese people with alot of REP that have a negative influence on the site?
We shouldn't judge what is right and wrong, even though it's hard.
Things that might be negative in your eyes might be positive in other's eyes.
What i'm saying is (whatever side they're on) the majority likes REP as it is.

 

[wereguy2]

Nah, I'm pretty sure narutards are just all-round negative.

 

[Dragonson]

We agree on that one.
But what about... THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE NARUTO! :O

Now let's stop this off-topicness before we get into posting stupid Naruto-Related demotivotionals.

 

[wereguy2]

This isn't off-topic, I am giving an example of... My other example.

 

[Deolrin]

That EXP idea was pretty cool. Like, you get an approved resource - you get EXP. Someone downloads your resource, you get EXP. A person approves that you have helped him in the help forums(Requests, World Editor Help etc) - you get EXP. The more EXP you get the higher level you are.

 

[Linaze]

So basically Linaze, you want to take all the fun out of rep, and replace it with something...exceedingly not fun that already has been proposed before (by WILLTHEALMIGHTY and Myself by the way), and already semi-exists in the form of award icons.

Rep is now quite literally "For Fun". Award icons are for serious business.

Out of curiosity though...Why are you so intently serious on making it 'mean something' when it doesn't really matter that much at all these days? >_>

Like...seriously? Make everyone's rep zero? I suspect ulterior motives here.

As for renaming it...I could see that...just needs to be a catchy name, since "Rep" is pretty much the catchy nick name already.

I don't want rep to be fun or something entertaining, I want it to mean something. Oh and that ulterior motives part made me lol.

 

[Fussiler1]

I personally don't understand people who want rep removed or the system changed.
Has rep killed your father or something? :S

Yes. He suicided when he got -rep.

except Elenai off course, since he's a random twat.

oh noes, he took your position

On serious note, why call him a twat anyway?

 

[Elenai]

Lets not get into moderator why's.

I don't want rep to be fun or something entertaining, I want it to mean something. Oh and that ulterior motives part made me lol.

I still suspect them, whether you lol, rofl, or not.

But as for meaning: They have none, quite literally, except purely for fun. You can't buy a new computer with rep, so why give them meaning?

Award icons have meaning for that. Real reputation has meaning for that, the thank you message in the rep bar has that, and the chatroom has that in the form of social respect.

High rep does not guarantee any respect, removing everyone's rep is just childish, and trying to force meaning into what is literally a sole-purpose-for-fun string of code with shiny images, is not worth the effort, especially if it means baring down the hive into a strict, pseudo elitistic, overly competitive...well...I digress, lets just keep the HIVE fun shall we?

 

[Linaze]

elitistic hive *drools*
Rep has no meaning, yes, rep could have some meaning, though.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Lets not get into moderator why's.



I still suspect them, whether you lol, rofl, or not.

But as for meaning: They have none, quite literally, except purely for fun. You can't buy a new computer with rep, so why give them meaning?

Award icons have meaning for that. Real reputation has meaning for that, the thank you message in the rep bar has that, and the chatroom has that in the form of social respect.

High rep does not guarantee any respect, removing everyone's rep is just childish, and trying to force meaning into what is literally a sole-purpose-for-fun string of code with shiny images, is not worth the effort, especially if it means baring down the hive into a strict, pseudo elitistic, overly competitive...well...I digress, lets just keep the HIVE fun shall we?

Rep does in many cases guarantee respect. You know rep is for fun, I know rep is for fun. Unfortunately, regardless of what it is meant for, people view it as a sort of 'noob bar'. Keeping the Hive fun is not dependent on rep. Well, for the rest of us anyway. Nor, will removing rep cause the Hive to be 'elitistic'. It does the opposite. The best forums I've ever been at have no rep.

I think it's hard for us to take your point seriously when your trying to keep the 1300 or so rep that you have. We also know that your a bit of a megalomaniac. Though, there is no way for me to know what the heck you want.

I think I've spammed my point here enough times...

 

[Elenai]

Well, if that is the case Mr.Bob, you need to change the people, not the rep.

Rep isn't the root, and it never was, it is people who are at fault for their own stupidity, changing rep will not change the root, and it will merely shift to a new method of 'noob guageing'.

As for 1300 rep...I again cite: I had it disabled for a year. Megalomania aside; it has thoroughly nothing to do with a few pixels of a .gif file.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Well, if that is the case Mr.Bob, you need to change the people, not the rep.

Rep isn't the root, and it never was, it is people who are at fault for their own stupidity, changing rep will not change the root, and it will merely shift to a new method of 'noob guageing'.

As for 1300 rep...I again cite: I had it disabled for a year. Megalomania aside; it has thoroughly nothing to do with a few pixels of a .gif file.

There is no other method of 'noob guageing'. I've seen countless other forums thrive without it. As sentimental as that first line was, I'm not arguing who's fault it is. Heck, I don't even think it is stupid to judge according to rep. I'm just saying if you remove all the visible means of doing so, the community plays on an equal field. Rep encourages off topic discussions, rep encourages elite behavior, rep encourages a "help for hire" mentality, rep encourages "elite trolls" which is a new brand of trolls who flame with wit, rep encourages drama, and the list goes on...

The community will not shift to something new. The only other alternative is award icons, positions of power, and post count. None of which people will shift too, except maybe positions of power. But, that's a different behavior all together.

EDIT: I'll be back to talk later. Great discussion btw.

 

[Elenai]

X causes <list>

So does talent.

____

The community WILL shift, it is only a matter of what to. Removing rep will do no such thing to aid your endeavour. It doesn't matter if the behaviour is the same or not, the mere fact the shift will occur is the point, because you didn't change the people, you just took away a toy, they'll move on to play with something else: FACT.

Rep didn't cause elitist trolls, it doesn't encourage it, it doesn't encourage drama, it doesn't encourage elitist behaviour: People...do...and only, people.

Also: What is wrong with 'rep for hire' if the job gets done? Market isn't evil. Asking for a wage for product/work completed doesn't make you a darn selfish lil' bastard either.

Rep is one of the few aspects of hive that actually 'is' an equalizer, everyone can give rep, and everyone can receive rep, at the for-the-most-part freedom of the user, and just because a few people encourage a minority of groups via abuse of it, does not mean you should screw over the rest of the user base for their Human-Induced idiocy.

Punish the Trolls, Punish the encouragers, Punish abusers of the system: Don't punish those who rep responsibly. Just because some people drown other people in pools, does not mean you close down every pool, water park, and seaworld across the face of the earth.

 

[Mr. Bob]

So does talent.

____

The community WILL shift, it is only a matter of what to. Removing rep will do no such thing to aid your endeavour. It doesn't matter if the behaviour is the same or not, the mere fact the shift will occur is the point, because you didn't change the people, you just took away a toy, they'll move on to play with something else: FACT.

Rep didn't cause elitist trolls, it doesn't encourage it, it doesn't encourage drama, it doesn't encourage elitist behaviour: People...do...and only, people.

Also: What is wrong with 'rep for hire' if the job gets done? Market isn't evil. Asking for a wage for product/work completed doesn't make you a darn selfish lil' bastard either.

Rep is one of the few aspects of hive that actually 'is' an equalizer, everyone can give rep, and everyone can receive rep, at the for-the-most-part freedom of the user, and just because a few people encourage a minority of groups via abuse of it, does not mean you should screw over the rest of the user base for their Human-Induced idiocy.

Punish the Trolls, Punish the encouragers, Punish abusers of the system: Don't punish those who rep responsibly. Just because some people drown other people in pools, does not mean you close down every pool, water park, and seaworld across the face of the earth.

Unfortunately, after looking at countless forums, I can't say I agree with any of that wall of text. Trouble is, we could just go on like this forever saying "this causes it" "no, this causes it". So, I'll just leave the "who's fault" factor where it is.

The whole 'toy' concept won't fly. I full heartedly believe that because rep is a shiny little gif that anyone can give anyone, it's different than any other 'toy'. Awards and post count mean nothing to most people. Post count means you have no life, awards mean you participate. Rep is big and bold and has a numerical quality that everyone has.

Rep for help doesn't produce the best help. Atleast, not in my experience.

And, I'm not talking about punishing anyone. Is taking away rep punishing you? I guess if you value your rep quite a bit.

It's true, removing rep would thin the population down by massive quantities. But, I'd rather have 10 decent people then thousands of rep hunters.

The only site I have ever seen rep work, is WC3c.net. Sort of works anyway... But, that's because it's a forum full of professionals working on different projects. The Hive is more of a community.

EDIT: And no, I don't think talent is a large factor in those areas.

Ok, now for real, I'll be back later...

 

[Elenai]

Rep for help doesn't produce the best help. Atleast, not in my experience.

Then get it elsewhere. Simple.

And, I'm not talking about punishing anyone. Is taking away rep punishing you? I guess if you value your rep quite a bit.

Don't even dare to pull that kind of bull with me: You know very well what I'm saying!

Don't take away the toys of your other children just because a black hearted son of yours decides to be a brat with his.

It's true, removing rep would thin the population down by massive quantities. But, I'd rather have 10 decent people then thousands of rep hunters.

Those 10 decent people exist already!

The only site I have ever seen rep work, is WC3c.net. Sort of works anyway... But, that's because it's a forum full of professionals working on different projects.

Ah ha! Now it all makes perfect sense...

The Hive is more of a community.

And the root of community is FUN, don't mess with it!

And Hell yes, if Rep causes elitism, then by fullness of pure perfect logic Talent causes elitism as well, and to a vastly further increase! And all that follows in the abuse of having it.

 

[Mr. Bob]

So apparently rep is the main source of fun on this site. I didn't get the memo.

Again with the toy analogy.. Thing is, I don't think rep is fun at all. I think it's stupid to be honest. Maybe this is not the site for me. Maybe I should go to the forums with no rep that apparently, regardless of the thriving communities of considerate people who know what they're doing, are no fun because of the lack of rep.

Of course the ten people exist. So do the thousands...

The "ah ha" statement made no sense to me...I'm not even a member of WC3c.net...

I still don't think talent is a major cause. Even if it was, atleast it makes sense. Arrogance doesn't have to stem from talent. It certainly can of course, but it stems from anything. As you said, we humans are to blame.

About the "bull" that I tried to pull on you. Enlighten me. What do you mean. Because, at the moment, you sound like you really value your rep.

 

[Elenai]

So apparently rep is the main source of fun on this site. I didn't get the memo.

One of many.

Again with the toy analogy.. Thing is, I don't think rep is fun at all. I think it's stupid to be honest. Maybe this is not the site for me. Maybe I should go to the forums with no rep that apparently, regardless of the thriving communities of considerate people who know what they're doing, are no fun because of the lack of rep.

You are welcome to do so.

The "ah ha" statement made no sense to me...I'm not even a member of WC3c.net...

Mindset.

As you said, we humans are to blame.

Exactly. Now you get it.

About the "bull" that I tried to pull on you. Enlighten me. What do you mean. Because, at the moment, you sound like you really value your rep.

And THAT is the very bull I am warning you not to pull. Like.I.bloody.well.said: I disabled it for a year, you have zero authority to state otherwise in an underlying attempt to de-leg my argument via this method.

I support rep because of the pure fun of it. I am not supporting it because of value, or some 'neediness' for it: I proved I do not require it eons ago. Do not therefore imply: For you are perilously wrong, and I refuse to allow you to use wrong, error filled methods, and wrong, error filled reasons to discuss the issue.

 

[Mr. Bob]

One of many.

So in effect, if I remove rep, this site is no longer fun? Or, atleast, it's not near as fun as it was? Let's remove ALL your rep and see how fun it is. Start from scratch. Rep is a lot funner to the guy that has 2000 than the guy that has 2. I don't want a rep based hierarchy. I want a community of people without little numbers for how much green gifs they have acquired.

You are welcome to do so.

Your getting angry...

Mindset.

Your getting angrier...

Exactly. Now you get it.

Pertaining to skill, yeah. Rep? No.

And THAT is the very bull I am warning you not to pull. Like.I.bloody.well.said: I disabled it for a year, you have zero authority to state otherwise in an underlying attempt to de-leg my argument via this method.

I support rep because of the pure fun of it. I am not supporting it because of value, or some 'neediness' for it: I proved I do not require it eons ago. Do not therefore imply: For you are perilously wrong, and I refuse to allow you to use wrong, error filled methods, and wrong, error filled reasons to discuss the issue.

Now, your really angry.

I still have no clue about what you meant by the punishment statement. It's what it looks like, so it's what I am going to have to think. Of course, saying "your wrong! your wrong! your wrong!" a lot of times never gets people anywhere.

In the end, no matter the cause, I think rep is a no-no, and that we'd be better off without it. Even if you think it is 'fun'.