Curse of the Forsaken v3.0.1

[Xypilas]

Are you sure you have latest wc3 patch?
You need at least 1.27 if I'm not wrong
It should be written on the main page

Okay, I've checked my game and the version is 1.26, I will patch my game tonight. Thanks!!

 

[Densaugeo]

Just played this, and it was really well done! Even with the new units etc. it still felt like the original campaign, and the cutscenes/interludes were presented well.

I even managed not to get stuck (much).

 

[Lunox]

hey Tomoraider Will u Continue the story of Sylvanas? Until the end of Wow:Battle for azeroth, I hope so.

 

[DishInADrawer]

Haven't finished it yet, am enjoying this 3.0 revamp though. A few notes;
-Chapter 3: That new Sylvanas ability unlock is super rad, I did not see it coming. After you destroy the Scarlets the new enemy doesn't train any new units though, at least in my game.
-Chapter 4: Hard mode, holy God these swarms of units, this is ridiculous.
I dig this sudden insurrection between Legion and Scarlets, nice opening to win the map.
No, seriously, these god damn swarms of units. Like 50 supply of units hit my base suddenly, followed by another 40 supply three minutes later, and then another 30 supply two minutes later.
"Lordaeron is free!" Very funny.
Chapter 11: WHAT ARE THESE SWARMS OF UNITS?! It's way more memorable and interesting then what happened here in version 2.0, but on Hard mode this is absurd, Arthas leading like 80 supply armies and crashing into your base, even with the Alliance and Horde popping in after a couple minutes to help is crazy! It feels less like I'm fighting the Scourge and more like I'm fighting the Swarm, so many Scourge! It feels appropriately intense for what is the big climatic fight on the Lich Kings door step but good god man, there's so many units and I have so little AoE! Have to swallow my pride and redo the map on a lower difficulty or something.

 

[Yuefang]

Chapter 11: WHAT ARE THESE SWARMS OF UNITS?! It's way more memorable and interesting then what happened here in version 2.0, but on Hard mode this is absurd, Arthas leading like 80 supply armies and crashing into your base, even with the Alliance and Horde popping in after a couple minutes to help is crazy! It feels less like I'm fighting the Scourge and more like I'm fighting the Swarm, so many Scourge! It feels appropriately intense for what is the big climatic fight on the Lich Kings door step but good god man, there's so many units and I have so little AoE! Have to swallow my pride and redo the map on a lower difficulty or something.

Welcome to hard mode my friend, though in my experience battling the Scourge wasn't the problem, my problem was chasing Putress before Varian, you don't have aoe but Vereesa can mostly harass the casters with her ranger and her first skill, and also the meat wagons with Forsaken Plague are now a good choice in this map, there are plenty of units cuz so many bases around there but there are some bases that are weak.

 

[DishInADrawer]

Welcome to hard mode my friend, though in my experience battling the Scourge wasn't the problem, my problem was chasing Putress before Varian, you don't have aoe but Vereesa can mostly harass the casters with her ranger and her first skill, and also the meat wagons with Forsaken Plague are now a good choice in this map, there are plenty of units cuz so many bases around there but there are some bases that are weak.

Yea you're right, I just have a very conservative play style I default too, essentially turtling up with a buncha towers and not going over 50 supply so as to hoard as much gold as I can. The huge armies rolling up led by Arthas and Kel'thuzad are a real kick to the balls for that strategy though. I guess Meat Wagons, Plague, and taking out some bases quick to slow down the Scourge's war machine is crucial.

 

[CentaurWA]

Definitely my favorite custom campaign. Thank you for the effort!

 

[Arjhun]

This comment will be pretty long but I wished to convey everything I felt

Hey tomoraider, you did an awesome job dude. Seriously, I'm addicted to warcraft's storyline. Hence I badly wished for Warcraft IV for a long time which has to be the sequel of Warcraft III TFT. But since Blizzard is focused on WOW, I lost hope on Warcraft IV. Still I usually play Warcraft III campaign often, completed the campaign in hard (ROC and TFT) more than 70 times.

I tried playing WoW but I didn't find it much interesting like Warcraft IiI. Then a month before, I came across Hive workshop and started looking for maps.

Then I came across your Custom Campaign based on the warcraft story and I was like omg, I badly wanna play this.

When I started playing, I was so happy that the story continued where it left just as I wished for. The way you develop ed the map was really great and the cinematics as well.

In a week, completed playing both of your campaigns and I badly want more.

Seriously, I felt that, I should have known about Hive workshop and the campaign long back but anyway very very glad to get these campaigns.

Thanm you so much Tomoraider and others who worked on developing this campaign and thank you so much Hive Workshop for promoting the custom campaigns.

My personal request, please continue the story after Curse of the forsaken. I know it's pretty hard but still, there are people like me who still wanna play in TFT style and know the story.

 

[nuck001]

Hi,tomoraider.Long time no see.

Blizzard has released a new wc3 patch yesterday which has broken most of custom maps...again.I was worried about your campaigns so I checked CotF for a while.Luckily it was not broken,but there appeared a new camera bug.Take a look at the screenshot below:

Hidden

The position of the camera in almost every cutscene the last cutscene was ajusted some yards by the new patch.And it's shaking slightly.

Hopefully this bug will be hotfixed by Blizzard.

 

[ZAX.AREENA]

i cant play a stage 2 "icy menace", it just blank in my PC, ,what should i do ???

 

[Wooden PC]

Mission 3 side quest is broken, when I possess the murloc nothing happened. Probably because of the new patch

 

[nuck001]

when I possess the murloc nothing happened

I managed to possess the murloc king though I cheated "whosyourdaddy","warpten" and "greedisgood" for a quick playthrough.

i cant play a stage 2 "icy menace", it just blank in my PC, ,what should i do ???

Most of custom campaigns updated recently are only playable in wc3 1.29+.Generally speaking I would recommend you upgrading your wc3 to the latest patch,which is 1.31.0 now.However,this patch was screwed by Blizzard,a lot of custom maps were broken.I guess you have to wait until a stable patch is released in the future.

 

[Kaftarepir]

you know what i like the most about your campaigns? That it is base on WOW. thx for that

 

[DxrkCactus]

i cant complet the main quest of chapter nine (Echos of the past) when i destroy the undead base nothing happen pls help me

 

[DxrkCactus]

btw there is bug when i possess the demons builder some building and powerful units are with just few gold and with other races no food request.. so you will train unlimited units

 

[tomoraider]

Definitely my favorite custom campaign. Thank you for the effort!

This comment will be pretty long but I wished to convey everything I felt

Hey tomoraider, you did an awesome job dude. Seriously, I'm addicted to warcraft's storyline. Hence I badly wished for Warcraft IV for a long time which has to be the sequel of Warcraft III TFT. But since Blizzard is focused on WOW, I lost hope on Warcraft IV. Still I usually play Warcraft III campaign often, completed the campaign in hard (ROC and TFT) more than 70 times.

I tried playing WoW but I didn't find it much interesting like Warcraft IiI. Then a month before, I came across Hive workshop and started looking for maps.

Then I came across your Custom Campaign based on the warcraft story and I was like omg, I badly wanna play this.

When I started playing, I was so happy that the story continued where it left just as I wished for. The way you develop ed the map was really great and the cinematics as well.

In a week, completed playing both of your campaigns and I badly want more.

Seriously, I felt that, I should have known about Hive workshop and the campaign long back but anyway very very glad to get these campaigns.

Thanm you so much Tomoraider and others who worked on developing this campaign and thank you so much Hive Workshop for promoting the custom campaigns.

My personal request, please continue the story after Curse of the forsaken. I know it's pretty hard but still, there are people like me who still wanna play in TFT style and know the story.

you know what i like the most about your campaigns? That it is base on WOW. thx for that

Glad you all liked it!

i cant complet the main quest of chapter nine (Echos of the past) when i destroy the undead base nothing happen pls help me

There are two levers near the undead base, you need to destroy those.

btw there is bug when i possess the demons builder some building and powerful units are with just few gold and with other races no food request.. so you will train unlimited units

Well, technically that's not a bug, but something I left in for fun.đ

And @nuck001, thank you for reporting that issue. Has anyone noticed if the new patch broke anything else?

 

[HellFriend]

Hey I wanna ask you somthing guys. how can i change hotkeys or this campaing ? heroes maybe has QWER but i use my custom where on units have QWER + another hotkey for buildings and etc. Is possible add config file to the warkeys or change hotkeys with some other methods ? if you know please tell me. it will be much easier

Also i found a little bug. not sure which mission it was i think 3rd or 4th and you are suppose posses a Murloc King but after possesing nothing happen. It is side Q so its okey but still

 

[Sanjay]

Plz anyone can say me in which patch i can play this campaign

 

[Sanjay]

Can anyone send me the link of custom campaign patch

 

[AbsolutePsycho]

Completed this on Normal yesterday (in WC3 1.30.4).

The storytelling didn't make sense. Putress has complete lack of motivation. I understand that most of the story comes from WOW (which I was never interested in, so I had almost zero knowledge of it's story prior to playing this), and maybe there is more detail to it, but even after watching a few vids for 2 hours, the "Putress betrayal at Wrathgate" doesn't make any sense to me (even how it was depicted in WOW).
Humans hatred towards orcs in Chapter 6 also came out of nowhere (and the next scene they were all good again, wtf?), however if I understood correctly, according to WOW story, Chapter 6 takes place after Chapter 10, hence all the confusion.
Probably a few other minor things, but these two stand out the most.

The difficulty even on Normal was quite challenging, since most of the missions have multiple bases for player to control and/or enemy constantly attacking from every direction. Also many times I felt overwhelmed with the amount of new abilites/upgrades thrown into me.
Chapters 4, 11, 12 were epic, most memorable and are my favourite ones.

Overall, a must-play campaign that fills the void that was left after WC3 TFT.

 

[r.ace613]

In Chapter 12, I've disabled all the obelisks but nothing happened, anyone had this "issue", or am I missing something?

 

[SLICED]

Alright, played this one as well.. Here's my objective opinion about this campaign with POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD for those who haven't played this campaign yet.

What I want to point from the start is the fact that I should take almost everything back from my Rise of the Blood Elves review and actually consider it a blessing in comparison to this... thing..

Pros:

+ Good "cinematography", you made the cinematics very well, they are truly awesome !

+ The music is really cool because you've made it correspond to each and every zone: Forsaken theme in Eastern Kingdoms, Winter/Snow theme in Northrend and different soundtracks for the various chambers inside the Icecrown Citadel

+ It felt like an RPS in Chapter Nine: Hearts in Ice, which is nice

+ Most maps are very well designed in terms of terrain

Cons:

- Too many heroes from different factions to play with

- 2 heroes have like more than 4 abilities which means having to micro a lot

- Just like in RotBE:
> the AI is broken right from the start in Chapter One: A Necessary Intervention, having to defend constantly (but at least the units weren't too powerful), and then this state magnifies in the coming chapters
> again, most quest objectives are boring like having to destroy bases with low rewards
> the items in the shop are.. somewhat better but the Healing Salve and the Scroll of Healing are kinda useless, the latter being very expensive, considering Forsaken have a couple of tools to regenerate health (Blight, Regenerative Flesh, Putress Q)

- Why should the Crypt Fiends and the Carrion Beetles still have the Burrow ability in Chapter Eight: Azjol-Nerub when you are close to killing them ? Having to micro all my spellcasters to attack my other units so that they don't die, every time the enemies ambush my units, is not cool

- The way the characters develop is lacklustre and bland

- Chapter Twelve: Fall of the Lich King:
> too much to micro
> storytelling and gameplay felt too WoW-like
> it's impossible to keep all heroes alive for so long
> extremely low resources for the amount of times I had to revive my heroes especially; I didn't use units at all cause I knew they would plainly die
> would have hurt to add at least one more mana regen or health regen abilities ? Thrall's totems aren't very impactful

- The storytelling of almost the whole campaign felt very WoW-like..

- No voice acting (you're not getting away with the fact that you imported voice lines from WoW)


Bugs:

- In Chapter Seven: Into the Frozen Heart of Northrend, I left the BE base be destroyed because I literally couldn't defend it.. nothing happened if the base gets destroyed, I made a new one near my main Forsaken base and I didn't fail the mission, is that normal ?
- Sometimes the abilities from Quel'Delar are missing so I can't use them
- Some items have really weird icons different from the ones they're supposed to have, having to reload the map
- In Chapter Twelve: Fall of the Lich King, if a hero is switched to Lana'thel's side, after you kill her, the red orb disappears but the hero is still hostile
NOTE: The last bugs might have been caused by the fact that I played on Patch 1.31 because this campaign isn't playable on 1.27 anymore and, from what I gathered from the comments, the current patch might have broken a lot of custom maps

In conclusion, my favourite chapter is Chapter 9: Hearts in Ice, which is sorta weird considering the main focus of the campaign is on Sylvanas and the Forsaken but they've been rather languorous. RotBE is definitely better than this campaign. My main issues are with the broken AI and the lack of fun and interest in the quests in most chapters. Best chapters would probably be 9, 1 and maybe 8. I rate Curse of the Forsaken 1.5 or 2 out of 5.

Btw, I found that sneaky item in the back of the Icecrown glacier.

 

[tulee]

I rate Curse of the Forsaken 1.5 or 2 out of 5.

Ouch. I am worried about what scores you will give the other campaigns on hive

 

[SLICED]

Ouch. I am worried about what scores you will give the other campaigns on hive

Just you wait...

 

[madius]

Hello, people, i have the problem loading second mission. When i in campagain menu klick on the chapter, display turns black and thats all, no reaction futher, then i simply close the game. THE first chapter played excellent, without problemm at all, please help me, if you know wat to do.

 

[Yuefang]

- Sometimes the abilities from Quel'Delar are missing so I can't use them

That's stated in the notes from here, you need to repick the item.

 

[deepstrasz]

@SLICED your ratings are not fully justified. You are being too fastidious.

 

[tobesta]

Any tips for A Rallying Point mission? I get the reinforcements early on. But I just keep getting overwhelmed

 

[Joseph Carter]

Do you also plan on updating Rise of the Blood Elves also and do you think you'll be doing an overall rebuild when the new Warcraft 3 comes out?

 

[tomoraider]

Hey I wanna ask you somthing guys. how can i change hotkeys or this campaing ? heroes maybe has QWER but i use my custom where on units have QWER + another hotkey for buildings and etc. Is possible add config file to the warkeys or change hotkeys with some other methods ? if you know please tell me. it will be much easier

Also i found a little bug. not sure which mission it was i think 3rd or 4th and you are suppose posses a Murloc King but after possesing nothing happen. It is side Q so its okey but still

Oof, someone already mentioned this about the murloc quest. I think one of the newer patches broke this. I'll check it out!

As for the hotkey, I honestly do not know since I've never played with that.

Plz anyone can say me in which patch i can play this campaign

Just update your game to the most recent patch. Click on the battle.net button ingame to do it.

Completed this on Normal yesterday (in WC3 1.30.4).

The storytelling didn't make sense. Putress has complete lack of motivation. I understand that most of the story comes from WOW (which I was never interested in, so I had almost zero knowledge of it's story prior to playing this), and maybe there is more detail to it, but even after watching a few vids for 2 hours, the "Putress betrayal at Wrathgate" doesn't make any sense to me (even how it was depicted in WOW).
Humans hatred towards orcs in Chapter 6 also came out of nowhere (and the next scene they were all good again, wtf?), however if I understood correctly, according to WOW story, Chapter 6 takes place after Chapter 10, hence all the confusion.
Probably a few other minor things, but these two stand out the most.

The difficulty even on Normal was quite challenging, since most of the missions have multiple bases for player to control and/or enemy constantly attacking from every direction. Also many times I felt overwhelmed with the amount of new abilites/upgrades thrown into me.
Chapters 4, 11, 12 were epic, most memorable and are my favourite ones.

Overall, a must-play campaign that fills the void that was left after WC3 TFT.

Glad you liked the campaign! I believe Putress did not have much of a motivation in WoW, if any, he was just Varimathras' puppet. I changed it here that he has pretty much the same motivation as Sylvanas, but they come into conflict because Vereesa made Sylvanas hesitate.

And yes, in WoW, the whole Wrathgate thing happens and the Battle for the Undercity. I changed that because I felt that going back to Undercity for a map after the Wrathgate would be strange, and I also really wanted to include Battle for the Undercity so I did it in a different way. This does create issues in the relationship between the Alliance and the Horde in the campaign, but honestly I did not feel like it was too much of a big deal.

In Chapter 12, I've disabled all the obelisks but nothing happened, anyone had this "issue", or am I missing something?

Strange, I thought I fixed that in v3.0.1. This issue used to be caused if you reloaded the map at any point after disabling one of the obelisks. I'll check it out!

Alright, played this one as well.. Here's my objective opinion about this campaign with POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD for those who haven't played this campaign yet.

What I want to point from the start is the fact that I should take almost everything back from my Rise of the Blood Elves review and actually consider it a blessing in comparison to this... thing..

Pros:

+ Good "cinematography", you made the cinematics very well, they are truly awesome !

+ The music is really cool because you've made it correspond to each and every zone: Forsaken theme in Eastern Kingdoms, Winter/Snow theme in Northrend and different soundtracks for the various chambers inside the Icecrown Citadel

+ It felt like an RPS in Chapter Nine: Hearts in Ice, which is nice

+ Most maps are very well designed in terms of terrain

Cons:

- Too many heroes from different factions to play with

- 2 heroes have like more than 4 abilities which means having to micro a lot

- Just like in RotBE:
> the AI is broken right from the start in Chapter One: A Necessary Intervention, having to defend constantly (but at least the units weren't too powerful), and then this state magnifies in the coming chapters
> again, most quest objectives are boring like having to destroy bases with low rewards
> the items in the shop are.. somewhat better but the Healing Salve and the Scroll of Healing are kinda useless, the latter being very expensive, considering Forsaken have a couple of tools to regenerate health (Blight, Regenerative Flesh, Putress Q)

- Why should the Crypt Fiends and the Carrion Beetles still have the Burrow ability in Chapter Eight: Azjol-Nerub when you are close to killing them ? Having to micro all my spellcasters to attack my other units so that they don't die, every time the enemies ambush my units, is not cool

- The way the characters develop is lacklustre and bland

- Chapter Twelve: Fall of the Lich King:
> too much to micro
> storytelling and gameplay felt too WoW-like
> it's impossible to keep all heroes alive for so long
> extremely low resources for the amount of times I had to revive my heroes especially; I didn't use units at all cause I knew they would plainly die
> would have hurt to add at least one more mana regen or health regen abilities ? Thrall's totems aren't very impactful

- The storytelling of almost the whole campaign felt very WoW-like..

- No voice acting (you're not getting away with the fact that you imported voice lines from WoW)


Bugs:

- In Chapter Seven: Into the Frozen Heart of Northrend, I left the BE base be destroyed because I literally couldn't defend it.. nothing happened if the base gets destroyed, I made a new one near my main Forsaken base and I didn't fail the mission, is that normal ?
- Sometimes the abilities from Quel'Delar are missing so I can't use them
- Some items have really weird icons different from the ones they're supposed to have, having to reload the map
- In Chapter Twelve: Fall of the Lich King, if a hero is switched to Lana'thel's side, after you kill her, the red orb disappears but the hero is still hostile
NOTE: The last bugs might have been caused by the fact that I played on Patch 1.31 because this campaign isn't playable on 1.27 anymore and, from what I gathered from the comments, the current patch might have broken a lot of custom maps

In conclusion, my favourite chapter is Chapter 9: Hearts in Ice, which is sorta weird considering the main focus of the campaign is on Sylvanas and the Forsaken but they've been rather languorous. RotBE is definitely better than this campaign. My main issues are with the broken AI and the lack of fun and interest in the quests in most chapters. Best chapters would probably be 9, 1 and maybe 8. I rate Curse of the Forsaken 1.5 or 2 out of 5.

Btw, I found that sneaky item in the back of the Icecrown glacier.

To be completely honest, I find this review a bit disrespectful. "This... thing..."? I am not one to care much about ratings, but giving it 1.5/5 is just too glaring to ignore compared to almost every other rating this campaign has gotten. 1.5/5 basically means it's the worst of the worst.

You have some legit criticism, but there are some things I do not agree with it. I do not understand the "story is too WoW-like." It says in the description of the campaign it is a reimagining of a WoW story. I do not agree the quest objectives are the same all the time. While technically it is the point of most maps to destroy enemy bases, aside from the first two maps, which I deliberately made a simple "destroy the base" maps, every other map has something else going on for it. I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else. Besides, isn't that the point of the game? I don't think Blizzard's campaigns are that much different.

And the AI is not broken, it is intended it attacks often. This campaign is not meant to be easy. My impression of your review is that you found the campaign and the need to micro too hard. Which is fine, but I do not think this makes the campaign bad. I cannot play Starcraft 2 any good because of how fast paced it is and how much micro it requires, but I still recognise it is a good game, I am just bad at it.

Also, I do get away with no voice acting, I am just one person making this entire campaign. Adding voice acting from WoW and Heroes of the Storm at some points makes it more fun.

Hello, people, i have the problem loading second mission. When i in campagain menu klick on the chapter, display turns black and thats all, no reaction futher, then i simply close the game. THE first chapter played excellent, without problemm at all, please help me, if you know wat to do.

You need to update Warcraft 3. This campaign needs the most recent patch to play properly.

Any tips for A Rallying Point mission? I get the reinforcements early on. But I just keep getting overwhelmed

The best strategy for me was always to utilize the heroes' abilities all the time. Thrall can heal up a lot with his totem and provide a decent amount of support with his other abilities, and Sylvanas' silence is great against casters. I also always saved up all the ultimate abilities abilities for when it gets the hardest. Sylvanas can just pop into a group of enemies with Banshee Queen and deal with them quickly. Always use Thrall and Jaina's summons and make sure to heal up both HP and mana for all heroes. And I think focusing on defending the top two entrances if the best strategy. The bottom entrance is easier to deal with, but only really problematic when they attack with the lich hero. I hope this helps, if not, check out Jayborino's playthrough of the map.

Do you also plan on updating Rise of the Blood Elves also and do you think you'll be doing an overall rebuild when the new Warcraft 3 comes out?

Yes, I plan to update Rise of the Blood Elves at some point. Haven't gotten around to it yet.

As for Reforged, I honestly do not know. The problem for me are all the custom models I'm using. We'll see how all that will turn out.

 

[r.ace613]

Ahhh well, I actually beat the level yesterday, so here's something wrong with chapter 12 tho

Beating Deathbringer Saurfang disables two obelisks instead of one

 

[SLICED]

This response comes with POTENTIAL SPOILERS.

To be completely honest, I find this review a bit disrespectful. "This... thing..."? I am not one to care much about ratings, but giving it 1.5/5 is just too glaring to ignore compared to almost every other rating this campaign has gotten. 1.5/5 basically means it's the worst of the worst.

You have some legit criticism, but there are some things I do not agree with it. I do not understand the "story is too WoW-like." It says in the description of the campaign it is a reimagining of a WoW story. I do not agree the quest objectives are the same all the time. While technically it is the point of most maps to destroy enemy bases, aside from the first two maps, which I deliberately made a simple "destroy the base" maps, every other map has something else going on for it. I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else. Besides, isn't that the point of the game? I don't think Blizzard's campaigns are that much different.

And the AI is not broken, it is intended it attacks often. This campaign is not meant to be easy. My impression of your review is that you found the campaign and the need to micro too hard. Which is fine, but I do not think this makes the campaign bad. I cannot play Starcraft 2 any good because of how fast paced it is and how much micro it requires, but I still recognise it is a good game, I am just bad at it.

Also, I do get away with no voice acting, I am just one person making this entire campaign. Adding voice acting from WoW and Heroes of the Storm at some points makes it more fun.

You're right, you're just one guy, sorry for not realising that.

Okay, let's clear this out:

"To be completely honest, I find this review a bit disrespectful. "This... thing..."? I am not one to care much about ratings, but giving it 1.5/5 is just too glaring to ignore compared to almost every other rating this campaign has gotten. 1.5/5 basically means it's the worst of the worst." - When I wrote the review I was actually a bit tired so I guess I didn't really pay a lot of attention to a couple details... so now, I'm inclined to give this campaign a 2.5 or 3 out of 5. Apologies for the initial low score. It's not the worst of the worst.

"story is too WoW-like" - that's how I felt when I was playing it. I know.. it's not a very good argument and I also can't support it thoroughly.. it's just how I felt. I can discern the storytelling of WC3 to that of WoW, and it really felt like the latter.

"Destroy bases" Quest objectives -

> Alright, yeah, chapter one had that cool optional quest with chopping down the trees and finding those secret items.
> Chapter Two: Destroy bases, while saving Putress.
> Chapter Three: Destroy bases:
~ the two for the main objective
~ the one in the north to get some items from Rhonin (which from what I can remember weren't really that great but still fair considering it's still chapter three and not seven or eight or so)
~ in the end, Varimathras' base
> Chapter Four: Destroy bases; the part with the meat for vampire bats was neat but the problem with that was the fact that I had to defend all the time while simultaneoulsy trying to deliver the meat.. oh, and the enemies also attack the bats.. so you kinda need to protect them too.
> Chapter Five: It was quite hard to get those allies to help because while going to those two waygates, Orgrimmar was constantly being attacked. And at the end, after defending.. destroy bases.
> Chapter Six: For the most time, kill the demon generals while also having to destroy bases, as well as saving some of them (which was nice) but having to defend them too. Last minutes of the map were ok.
> Chapter Seven: Destroy bases. Killing the Val'kyr require going inside the bases.. so ultimately, having to destroy them.
> Chapter 8: The only thing that bothered me were just the burrowing fiends and bugs. In rest, the map was pretty alright.
> Chapter 9: My favourite chapter, no issues regarding this one.
> Chapter 10: Destroy bases. Svala has a base too. Can barely protect Blood Elves.. and if they die, everyone else just comes for you.
> Chapter 11: You kinda have to destroy at least one or two bases.
> Chapter 12: Still very WoW-like with 6 characters to micro, cause as I said: I didn't use the units cause I knew they were gonna die, plus too much to micro and would have just wasted the already very low resources.

"aside from the first two maps, which I deliberately made a simple "destroy the base" maps, every other map has something else going on for it. I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else." - There were like 8-9 chapters like that, with the main objective of destroying bases. And yeah, there is something else other than this but I feel like it's only consistent in chapters 8, 9 and 12 specifically.

"I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else. Besides, isn't that the point of the game? I don't think Blizzard's campaigns are that much different." - They are quite close to "much different", like this:

RoC: > Human campaign consists of only three chapters in which you have to destroy bases: 4, 7 and 9.
> Undead campaign does consist of destroying bases most of the time, in like all the chapters except 1 and 8. I guess it does make sense with the whole "death and destruction brought by undead hordes", but still, this campaign is my least favorite one.
> Orc campaign consists of four chapters in which you kinda have to destroy bases. The ones being chapters 3, 6 and 8. With chapter 5, you just have to attack a base to get Cenarius' attention.
> Night elf: you only have to destroy bases in chapters 1, 3 and 4.

TFT: > Sentinels: it's fifty-fifty with 4 chapters of having to destroy bases.
> Alliance: Just chapters 2 and 6, but I think chapter 2 can be pardoned by the fact that you get to experience a new custom race.
> Scourge: chapters 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6 require you to destroy bases. In chapter 8, you feel the need to because you're getting overwhelmed. Again, undead are not that fun, but I think this undead campaign is definitely better than the one in RoC.
> Rexxar's campaign: The end of chapter two requires you to destroy a base whereas chapter three is all about that. But hey, it is different from the other main campaigns because you play a sort of RPS with different RPG-style elements.

"And the AI is not broken, it is intended it attacks often. This campaign is not meant to be easy. My impression of your review is that you found the campaign and the need to micro too hard. Which is fine, but I do not think this makes the campaign bad." - Well, yeah, that's what I implied: I found it too hard to get accustomed to the gameplay. Ok, fine, the AI is not broken and it is intended to attack often.. but: when I see at the beginning of the "destroy bases" chapters two or three (powerful) waves coming at my one or two towers, me having done no upgrades, and the waves coming in constantly with maybe one minute break, this situation repeating for these kind of chapters every time, it literally kills my mood cause I already know how boring it will be, having to try to defend again.. and I think that is what makes the campaign bad in this regard.

"I cannot play Starcraft 2 any good because of how fast paced it is and how much micro it requires, but I still recognise it is a good game, I am just bad at it." - Well, I'm glad you can recognise it as a good game. I also think it's fast-paced and I'm very bad at it, but I however find it a pretty uncompelling game. Maybe I just think it's bad because I've grown up mostly playing RTSes like WC3 and, so, I'm only used to playing a rather slower type of RTS.

"Also, I do get away with no voice acting, I am just one person making this entire campaign. Adding voice acting from WoW and Heroes of the Storm at some points makes it more fun." - Fair point: you are just one guy putting a lot of work into these two neat campaigns and congrats for that ! I didn't say the voice-acting included from those two games doesn't make it fun, but I guess I should have mentioned it.

Look, dude.. thing is.. I'm usually criticising a lot of things. I just detail and express my opinion about almost every little triffle. I dissect almost everything to its core. You don't need to or rather you shouldn't take my opinion into consideration that much.. just look over the bugs I guess. However, you should care about rating.. after all, it's about how people see us through the things we do. Just as you said, you have a lot of users who gave a good rating for this campaign, point of this being something which stands true in video games in general: don't make something a lot of people like (judgemental neckbeards like me), make something a few people love. Cheers !

 

[Yuefang]

"I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else. Besides, isn't that the point of the game? I don't think Blizzard's campaigns are that much different." - They are quite close to "much different", like this:

RoC: > Orc campaign consists of four chapters in which you kinda have to destroy bases. The ones being chapters 3, 6 and 8. With chapter 5, you just have to attack a base to get Cenarius' attention.
> Night elf: you only have to destroy bases in chapters 1, 3 and 4.

TFT: > Alliance: Just chapters 2 and 6, but I think chapter 2 can be pardoned by the fact that you get to experience a new custom race.

> Chapter Three: Destroy bases:
~ the two for the main objective
~ the one in the north to get some items from Rhonin (which from what I can remember weren't really that great but still fair considering it's still chapter three and not seven or eight or so)
~ in the end, Varimathras' base
> Chapter Four: Destroy bases; the part with the meat for vampire bats was neat but the problem with that was the fact that I had to defend all the time while simultaneoulsy trying to deliver the meat.. oh, and the enemies also attack the bats.. so you kinda need to protect them too.
> Chapter Five: It was quite hard to get those allies to help because while going to those two waygates, Orgrimmar was constantly being attacked. And at the end, after defending.. destroy bases.
> Chapter 10: Destroy bases. Svala has a base too. Can barely protect Blood Elves.. and if they die, everyone else just comes for you.
> Chapter 11: You kinda have to destroy at least one or two bases.
.

-Orc Campaign, well, you have to destroy some bases at Chapter 4 if you wanna rush the lumber gathering, since their trees give 3k of lumber if I'm not mistaken.
-Night elf: I think the base in Chapter 2 must be destroyed in the case of new people don't find the path with the trees, also, in Chapter 6 the satyrs and treants are annoying, so I would consider destroying their bases, though it's not the main objective.
-Alliance, well, the orcs are pretty annoying with their lvl 10 dragons at Chapter 5 so it's a better idea to defeat them before closing the gates, but sure, you can close the gates without doing it.
Also, where you playing CotF at Hard?Cuz I don't feel the enemy is so annoying in Normal as you say:

-Chapter Three, the base in the middle only counts if I remember correctly, and after that the Varimathras's one, so 2 bases of 4.
-Chapter Four, well, I found out that if you defend yourself pretty well against the waves, the enemy won't attack the vampire bats, so they can rush victory for you.
-Chapter Five, you can take Sylvanas and Jaina to gather the reinforcements since both of them have "summons" Sylvanas could have like around 5-6 skeletons so no one of them gets hurt along with Jaina's elemental, and Thrall with their totems can mostly defend the base by himself (unless the Lich comes)
-Chapter 10, just silence the Starfall from the ranger hero and the blood elves can take care of both bases, even in Hard. problem comes if Kel'Thuzad attacks them.
-Chapter 11: Just because you feel overwhelmed, like last mission of Undead TFT.
I at least don't find the original campaigns pretty much different in missions from this one, and then isn't RTS(though you can create whatever you want with editors) mostly build and destroy? And that's what we have here.

 

[deepstrasz]

Look, dude.. thing is..

you're 70% subjective, we know.

It's nice rating tomatoes for some.

 

[tomoraider]

This response comes with POTENTIAL SPOILERS.



You're right, you're just one guy, sorry for not realising that.

Okay, let's clear this out:

"To be completely honest, I find this review a bit disrespectful. "This... thing..."? I am not one to care much about ratings, but giving it 1.5/5 is just too glaring to ignore compared to almost every other rating this campaign has gotten. 1.5/5 basically means it's the worst of the worst." - When I wrote the review I was actually a bit tired so I guess I didn't really pay a lot of attention to a couple details... so now, I'm inclined to give this campaign a 2.5 or 3 out of 5. Apologies for the initial low score. It's not the worst of the worst.

"story is too WoW-like" - that's how I felt when I was playing it. I know.. it's not a very good argument and I also can't support it thoroughly.. it's just how I felt. I can discern the storytelling of WC3 to that of WoW, and it really felt like the latter.

"Destroy bases" Quest objectives -

> Alright, yeah, chapter one had that cool optional quest with chopping down the trees and finding those secret items.
> Chapter Two: Destroy bases, while saving Putress.
> Chapter Three: Destroy bases:
~ the two for the main objective
~ the one in the north to get some items from Rhonin (which from what I can remember weren't really that great but still fair considering it's still chapter three and not seven or eight or so)
~ in the end, Varimathras' base
> Chapter Four: Destroy bases; the part with the meat for vampire bats was neat but the problem with that was the fact that I had to defend all the time while simultaneoulsy trying to deliver the meat.. oh, and the enemies also attack the bats.. so you kinda need to protect them too.
> Chapter Five: It was quite hard to get those allies to help because while going to those two waygates, Orgrimmar was constantly being attacked. And at the end, after defending.. destroy bases.
> Chapter Six: For the most time, kill the demon generals while also having to destroy bases, as well as saving some of them (which was nice) but having to defend them too. Last minutes of the map were ok.
> Chapter Seven: Destroy bases. Killing the Val'kyr require going inside the bases.. so ultimately, having to destroy them.
> Chapter 8: The only thing that bothered me were just the burrowing fiends and bugs. In rest, the map was pretty alright.
> Chapter 9: My favourite chapter, no issues regarding this one.
> Chapter 10: Destroy bases. Svala has a base too. Can barely protect Blood Elves.. and if they die, everyone else just comes for you.
> Chapter 11: You kinda have to destroy at least one or two bases.
> Chapter 12: Still very WoW-like with 6 characters to micro, cause as I said: I didn't use the units cause I knew they were gonna die, plus too much to micro and would have just wasted the already very low resources.

"aside from the first two maps, which I deliberately made a simple "destroy the base" maps, every other map has something else going on for it. I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else." - There were like 8-9 chapters like that, with the main objective of destroying bases. And yeah, there is something else other than this but I feel like it's only consistent in chapters 8, 9 and 12 specifically.

"I don't think any other map is just a "destroy the base" and nothing else. Besides, isn't that the point of the game? I don't think Blizzard's campaigns are that much different." - They are quite close to "much different", like this:

RoC: > Human campaign consists of only three chapters in which you have to destroy bases: 4, 7 and 9.
> Undead campaign does consist of destroying bases most of the time, in like all the chapters except 1 and 8. I guess it does make sense with the whole "death and destruction brought by undead hordes", but still, this campaign is my least favorite one.
> Orc campaign consists of four chapters in which you kinda have to destroy bases. The ones being chapters 3, 6 and 8. With chapter 5, you just have to attack a base to get Cenarius' attention.
> Night elf: you only have to destroy bases in chapters 1, 3 and 4.

TFT: > Sentinels: it's fifty-fifty with 4 chapters of having to destroy bases.
> Alliance: Just chapters 2 and 6, but I think chapter 2 can be pardoned by the fact that you get to experience a new custom race.
> Scourge: chapters 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6 require you to destroy bases. In chapter 8, you feel the need to because you're getting overwhelmed. Again, undead are not that fun, but I think this undead campaign is definitely better than the one in RoC.
> Rexxar's campaign: The end of chapter two requires you to destroy a base whereas chapter three is all about that. But hey, it is different from the other main campaigns because you play a sort of RPS with different RPG-style elements.

"And the AI is not broken, it is intended it attacks often. This campaign is not meant to be easy. My impression of your review is that you found the campaign and the need to micro too hard. Which is fine, but I do not think this makes the campaign bad." - Well, yeah, that's what I implied: I found it too hard to get accustomed to the gameplay. Ok, fine, the AI is not broken and it is intended to attack often.. but: when I see at the beginning of the "destroy bases" chapters two or three (powerful) waves coming at my one or two towers, me having done no upgrades, and the waves coming in constantly with maybe one minute break, this situation repeating for these kind of chapters every time, it literally kills my mood cause I already know how boring it will be, having to try to defend again.. and I think that is what makes the campaign bad in this regard.

"I cannot play Starcraft 2 any good because of how fast paced it is and how much micro it requires, but I still recognise it is a good game, I am just bad at it." - Well, I'm glad you can recognise it as a good game. I also think it's fast-paced and I'm very bad at it, but I however find it a pretty uncompelling game. Maybe I just think it's bad because I've grown up mostly playing RTSes like WC3 and, so, I'm only used to playing a rather slower type of RTS.

"Also, I do get away with no voice acting, I am just one person making this entire campaign. Adding voice acting from WoW and Heroes of the Storm at some points makes it more fun." - Fair point: you are just one guy putting a lot of work into these two neat campaigns and congrats for that ! I didn't say the voice-acting included from those two games doesn't make it fun, but I guess I should have mentioned it.

Look, dude.. thing is.. I'm usually criticising a lot of things. I just detail and express my opinion about almost every little triffle. I dissect almost everything to its core. You don't need to or rather you shouldn't take my opinion into consideration that much.. just look over the bugs I guess. However, you should care about rating.. after all, it's about how people see us through the things we do. Just as you said, you have a lot of users who gave a good rating for this campaign, point of this being something which stands true in video games in general: don't make something a lot of people like (judgemental neckbeards like me), make something a few people love. Cheers !

Thank you for clarifying everything. I apologise if I came across as a bit harsh. While I still somewhat disagree with some of your points, I understand better where you're coming from now. I can see the campaign feeling too hard, defending against constant attacks could definitely be frustrating. I always found it fun and challenging, I suppose that is why I never found an issue with it.

As for destroying the bases quests, I get that better now too as it relates to the previous issue, I think we're just looking for different things that make the game fun. This is how I always looked at it:

Chapter One and Two - Not much going on.
Chapter Three - Controlling two bases makes things more interesting, the murloc quest is pretty fun and the twist with Varimathras' base (and Sylvanas' new ability) also make things more interesting.
Chapter Four - This one is intended to be even harder than other maps to create a feeling of an unstoppable enemy, and because the enemies turn against each other at one point during the map. Plus with the vampire bats serving as a distraction, I always found it fun then just marching into the enemy bases.
Chapter Five - I do not think the destroy the bases quest in this map is same as the others because the friendly AI can basically do it on their own. I also thought it was really fun seeing the night elves and tauren just wreck the undead mercilessly, it felt pretty satisfying after a tough defense.
Chapter Six - Killing some of the generals gives you control of their bases, which I thought eliminated the aspect of preparing a base, considerably speeding up the map.
Chapter Seven - I can see this one feeling uninteresting, but I found controlling the blood elves really fun. I guess for me when you've got two players to control it makes maps much more interesting.
Chapter Eight and Nine - Heroes only maps.
Chapter Ten - Having the vrykul as a new enemy and the blood elves as a friendly AI made things more fun for me, and I enjoy the challenge of a time limit in the second part.
Chapter Eleven - Yeah, you're technically forced to destroy some bases here, but I intended this map to be challenging as it is the final base map of the campaign.
Chapter Twelve - Heroes only map.

And yeah, your last point is good, I agree with that. I've always made this campaign how I've wanted it and how I enjoyed it. If it was anything else, I don't think people would have liked it as much, but I understand your issues with it much better now.

 

[Venombite]

Have replayed the campaign a week or two ago and had found two bugs (probably created by the newest patches):

1. In chapter 3 when you posses a big murloc, you get him, but nothing else happens, you don't get the other murlocs.
2. In chapter 9 Quel'Dalar quest was broken. I collected all 5 saronite bars, but they didn't combine into one and when I came to Aethas nothing happened.

On the side note I think chapter 5 is a bit to hard on normal, and that lich spawns too often, and there are abnormal number of frost wyrms, you're heroes run out of mana little too fast, imo would be a lot more fun if the heroes (or Jaina and Thrall at least) could achive one more level. I have also been opening the campaign in WE to see how the units look and stuff, and don't know if that has caused these bugs. Just saying if you ever update the campaign again, what bugs I've encountered.

 

[Yuefang]

Chapter Seven - I can see this one feeling uninteresting, but I found controlling the blood elves really fun. I guess for me when you've got two players to control it makes maps much more interesting.

Is this a teaser for multiplayer thing?<.< *hypes*

 

[SLICED]

-Orc Campaign, well, you have to destroy some bases at Chapter 4 if you wanna rush the lumber gathering, since their trees give 3k of lumber if I'm not mistaken.
-Night elf: I think the base in Chapter 2 must be destroyed in the case of new people don't find the path with the trees, also, in Chapter 6 the satyrs and treants are annoying, so I would consider destroying their bases, though it's not the main objective.
-Alliance, well, the orcs are pretty annoying with their lvl 10 dragons at Chapter 5 so it's a better idea to defeat them before closing the gates, but sure, you can close the gates without doing it.
Also, where you playing CotF at Hard?Cuz I don't feel the enemy is so annoying in Normal as you say:

-Chapter Three, the base in the middle only counts if I remember correctly, and after that the Varimathras's one, so 2 bases of 4.
-Chapter Four, well, I found out that if you defend yourself pretty well against the waves, the enemy won't attack the vampire bats, so they can rush victory for you.
-Chapter Five, you can take Sylvanas and Jaina to gather the reinforcements since both of them have "summons" Sylvanas could have like around 5-6 skeletons so no one of them gets hurt along with Jaina's elemental, and Thrall with their totems can mostly defend the base by himself (unless the Lich comes)
-Chapter 10, just silence the Starfall from the ranger hero and the blood elves can take care of both bases, even in Hard. problem comes if Kel'Thuzad attacks them.
-Chapter 11: Just because you feel overwhelmed, like last mission of Undead TFT.
I at least don't find the original campaigns pretty much different in missions from this one, and then isn't RTS(though you can create whatever you want with editors) mostly build and destroy? And that's what we have here.

My point regarding the main campaigns was the fact that you had to destroy bases which were required to destroy and which were pretty much in your way, not necessarily that their forces were bothering you. Regarding CotF, you make it sound easier.. in theory xD Also, I don't think RTSes are mostly about build and destroy. I guess we just have different viewpoints.

you're 70% subjective, we know.

It's nice rating tomatoes for some.

What do you mean ?

Thank you for clarifying everything. I apologise if I came across as a bit harsh. While I still somewhat disagree with some of your points, I understand better where you're coming from now. I can see the campaign feeling too hard, defending against constant attacks could definitely be frustrating. I always found it fun and challenging, I suppose that is why I never found an issue with it.

As for destroying the bases quests, I get that better now too as it relates to the previous issue, I think we're just looking for different things that make the game fun. This is how I always looked at it:

Chapter One and Two - Not much going on.
Chapter Three - Controlling two bases makes things more interesting, the murloc quest is pretty fun and the twist with Varimathras' base (and Sylvanas' new ability) also make things more interesting.
Chapter Four - This one is intended to be even harder than other maps to create a feeling of an unstoppable enemy, and because the enemies turn against each other at one point during the map. Plus with the vampire bats serving as a distraction, I always found it fun then just marching into the enemy bases.
Chapter Five - I do not think the destroy the bases quest in this map is same as the others because the friendly AI can basically do it on their own. I also thought it was really fun seeing the night elves and tauren just wreck the undead mercilessly, it felt pretty satisfying after a tough defense.
Chapter Six - Killing some of the generals gives you control of their bases, which I thought eliminated the aspect of preparing a base, considerably speeding up the map.
Chapter Seven - I can see this one feeling uninteresting, but I found controlling the blood elves really fun. I guess for me when you've got two players to control it makes maps much more interesting.
Chapter Eight and Nine - Heroes only maps.
Chapter Ten - Having the vrykul as a new enemy and the blood elves as a friendly AI made things more fun for me, and I enjoy the challenge of a time limit in the second part.
Chapter Eleven - Yeah, you're technically forced to destroy some bases here, but I intended this map to be challenging as it is the final base map of the campaign.
Chapter Twelve - Heroes only map.

And yeah, your last point is good, I agree with that. I've always made this campaign how I've wanted it and how I enjoyed it. If it was anything else, I don't think people would have liked it as much, but I understand your issues with it much better now.

Don't apologise, you weren't harsh, you offerred a good counter-argument response. In the end, I guess we just see things differently in terms of "fun" or "enjoyment". Good luck !

 

[deepstrasz]

What do you mean ?

You like a specific colour more than others and that's reasoning for you.

 

[SLICED]

You like a specific colour more than others and that's reasoning for you.

Ok, I was a bit subjective regarding the "story too WoW-like" point, but about everything else, like it being 70% subjective, I really don't think so. I do not believe my review was about the things that nagged ME specifically or me being the only one to notice and to bring up these issues. I clearly stated that the review is an objective opinion/critique. The way I talked about all the things in the campaign is similar to how a lot of critics judge a movie or a book etc.

 

[deepstrasz]

I clearly stated that the review is an objective opinion/critique.

Sure, when you say that the level design is not matching what you like in an RTS is quite objective. If I were to do it, objectively, like you, most of the maps on this site would get low ratings from me like you give them.

 

[SLICED]

Sure, when you say that the level design is not matching what you like in an RTS is quite objective. If I were to do it, objectively, like you, most of the maps on this site would get low ratings from me like you give them.

I did not imply in the least that the level design is not matching what I specifically like in an RTS. I only used Blizz's main campaigns as an example to talk about somewhat better level design. From all the downloads this campaign has achieved thus far, there are definitely other users who thought the same thing about some of/more than the issues I talked about.

But you have a very good point: I must not be so objective regarding the maps on the site because it's just very few people working on each and every one of them and trying their best to make their maps original, creative and fun. I'll try to be less humdrum and critical about everything. My deepest apologies.

 

[Zelda95]

aight, finished this campaign for like the 999999999th time. Yes, its THAT fun.
anyways, now i've decided to give it a full review.

i know that you said you were done with this one and that it is complete, but im posting this just in case you change your mind later on.



Tech Tree:

overall the techtree is very unique and interesting. Its not one of the best because IT IS THE BEST. However, i do have some critical points to consider.

1- Ghouls: They need to go. Like seriously, they look too scourgy and imo does not really fit into the forsaken at all. I would replace them with something else like deathstalkers (the forsaken rouges) or any other light melee infantry that would fit with the forsaken. Also they are pretty much worthless beyond chapter 1 tbh they die with 2 hits and are not worth investing money into them or they upgrades and they donot combo very well with other units from the tech tree. The normal workers would harvest lumber as they already can.

2- Dark Ranger: There guys are AMAZING. There are slight changes that i would like to have for them though.

A) Why do they have 2 arrow types? i know that its for the sake of diversity but it really overlaps the other imo. Also black arrows overlap with sylvanas's black arrows which would result in a weaker dark minion because the dark rangers overwrites sylvanas's stronger variation sometimes. so i would probably limit them to 1 arrow type.

B) even after their range was buffed, they are still kinda unrewarding to be used in later chapters simply because they die way too fast. My suggestion is to either give them the normal 700 range, or buff their hp and make them a little bit more expensive.

C) the ghost that spawns upon the dark ranger is a neat idea, though it seems a little bit pointless as they are imo pretty worthless. I would probably give them a weak spell to spam at first, and then when out of mana they would start attacking as they do right now. Also they should be considered as a summoned creature with a limited life time because as of right now u can spam a million ghost army as they cost 0 food (though who would do that). This could also be an upgradable research instead of having it right off the bat. Could be names something like "Will of The Forsaken" since she literally came back from death to fight again.


3 - Dreadguards: these guys are perfect as they are tbh, they used to be broken but after the nerf they are perfect. The only thing that i would change from they is to remove the "Drain life" ability alonside their mana bar. Because they do not need to be able to attack air units and imo they should not be healing without the lifesteal upgrade.

4- Apethecaries: aight, prepare for a huge review about these guys.

A) First of all, none of their abilities could be auto casted. Which means each and everyone of them requires micro management in order to be functional.

B) Shadow bolt imo does not fit the apothecary unit. It feels like a demonic ability rather than chemical or undeath-ly. Personally not a big fan of it. I would replace it with an autocast ability that funstions similar to the naga siren's "Parasite" spell but would remove the spawning creature. This way you have an autocast damage spell that combos with the plague or any ability that requires the target to die like outbreak and black arrow.

C) Cleanse Toxins is nice and all but Anti Magic Shell is really better than it in almost every department. Even though it does have its unique uses, its still way too similar to AMS imo. I would replace it with another spell. What would be it you ask? well i have a couple of ideas;

1- "Hazy Potion": Something similar to the "Banish" spell from the blood mage. This would combo well with banshee's Vengeance ability as well as the auto cast damage spell i suggested earlier. Also it would not overlap any other ability in the tech tree that i can remember. Can be used offensively and defensively supporting the apothecary as a "Primary Spellcaster".

2- "Enraging Acid": summons a ward-like thing on the ground that has a low level endurance aura of some sorts. Having it as an "Aura" allows it to affect your units even when they are under the effects of anti magic shell. Would not overlap any other forsaken ability.

D) Healing Flasks is amazing. It also can be better. The mana cost and the aoe is underwhelming considering the amount it heals. I would probably decrease the mana cost to 90 or 100.

5- Banshees: My favorite unit. There are 3 things that are bugging me atm. First, why does the vengence upgrade replace curse? it limits the banshee's options while ethereal. I mean its an "Upgrade" so we spent gold, lumber, and time on it so it shouldn't replace anything. Banshees should just acquire this ability upon research while keeping curse. Second, why are banshees unaffected by regenerative flesh? i mean i understand why if they are in ethereal form but when they are corporeal i do not see a reason as to why they do not benefit from it. Third, why do they only have 500 attack range? every spellcaster in the game has 600 so why is the banshee the only spellcaster that has its range nerfed?

6- Abominations: these guys are perfect as it is. Though why are they classified as a different unit than the scourge's abomination? it interferes with me when i try to possess enemy abominations and find out that they do not have my upgrades. they are also in a different selection group when i group them with my own abominations :/

7- Vampire Bats: Tbh i hardly used these guys so do not take my points seriously. I find them not very useful because iirc their main job is countering enemy flyers. Which they are not very good at imo. What are they gonna do when 3+ Frostwyrms and some Valkyrs swarm my base in "Trial of Monsters". Frostwyrms does not take extra damage from normal attacks, and while valkyrs do take extra damage, they have a huge chunk of hp for these guys to do anything worth their time and resources.

8- Meat Wagons: They just need a model change. Thats it. I suggest using the "Forsaken Catapult" from hiveworkshop.

9 - Valkyr: Overall pretty good and combos with a lot of different strategies that you can use with this amazing tech tree. I would buff her mana to 400 though instead of 350 and increase the duration of unholy protection to 15 seconds instead of 10 as it costs 200 mana. Because the way they are, you are better reviving your fallen for 75 mana rather than spending 200 mana protecting them. 200 mana are worth 5 revives, which combos with dark rangers ghosts . Speaking of revive, it's targeting system is bugging me alot. Why does it prefer to revive fallen black spiders than abominations for example? it also prefers to revive the dead maggots from the outbreak ability from the abominations and turn them into a permanent unit. the targeting system needs to change. Or simply make it that black spiders/maggots does not drop corpses upon death.



Now we move on to heroes:

1- Sylvanas Windrunner: She is pretty amazing. Here are my thoughts on her:

A) Silence: Perfect, nothing to change. The spell combos well and does not get overlapped with other abilities in the tech tree.

B) Black Arrow: It overlaps with Dark rangers. One of them need to have their ability changed or reworked. Not sure what to do here, but i would probably change sylvanas's black arrow into "Wailing Arrow" like the one she has in heroes of the storm where it is an active ability that travels a set distance and explodes for an aoe damage. Would replace its silencing effect with something else though.

C) Drain Life: Meh, i didnt like this ability of hers tbh even though it is original. It really does not fit for a ranged character that hardly needs healing and it looks very demonic rather than undead. I would probably replace it with something else. Maybe a passive ability that summons ghosts/wraiths each time its condition is fulfilled?

D) Call of The Queen: The idea is spectacular. Here is my review concerning this ability; First, i think it should be an item ability for "Sylvanas's Locket" because she summons her banshees when she sees this item in WoW. So as a baseline ultimate spell, i would probably giver her the original "Charm" spell as i think its her signature move. Would probably change the charm icon to "Icon of Torment" though which is the forsaken sigil.

E) Banshee Queen: Perfect as it is. This ability is COOL AF btw, was hyped af when i got it unlocked. Good job on it.

2- Putress: Perfect as he is. Though im struggling to figure out how/why am i supposed to use ooze when i could just elixir of death for a lower mana cost? i dont like that ooze is uncontrollable but thats just me.

3 - Varimathras: Honestly i really like that u didnt change anything with him. though it is sad that we never have a chance to unlock his ultimate as he betrays us before we have a chance to do so.


Now to the Best Part, the chapters:


Chapter 1 "A Necessary Intervention": This chapter is a great introduction to the campaign and sets everything out perfectly for the new player. Here are my thoughts; At the start, the player should not have a base and they need to build up their own when they destroy the scarlet base. It feels weird a little bit to start with a crypt and a shadowhall only for the gold mine to explode. imo it would be a better introduction to have the new player start from 0.
There is an exploit here where you could destroy the souther scarlet base that spams casters (the one that is very close to the first objective) before you assault the gold mine base. Im guessing that we are not meant to do that but its an exploit that removes an attacking base early on with minimal effort. Needs to change imo.


Chapter 2 "Icy Menace": Pretty good, though i do not understand the optional quest. Like why is it there? i get that there is a gold mine but there are expansion slots all over the campaign why does this one has an optional quest for it. especially that the starting resources are not scarce and there is a gold mine right next to our base which also happens to be unprotected. I would probably change the optional quest into something else. By the way i like that you changed phaelynn into putress, i always disliked gender bent characters. I also like that you removed the worgen chapter in silverpine forest since it made little sense back then. Good job.


Chapter 3 "Disdain": I would have loved to see more interaction between the forsaken and the crusade with characters like "Brigitte Abbendis" as part of me wanted the story arc against the crusade to be slightly longer before the balnazzar reveal. I like the double base approach as it indeed adds to the challenge. The optional quest of possessing murlocs is a great homage to "The Dark Lady" chapter of blizzard's TFT campaign, i like that. I also like the optional quest with the kirin tor though i think the reward is a little bit weird. Instead of giving u a bunch of consumables, how about Rhonin gives you 1 powerful item? i would say the locket but there is already an interlude for it so it would not do. The build up and the climax when sylvanas unleashes her banshee form had me screaming and hyped up to slaughter anyone in my way. IT IS AMAAAAAAZING YOU DESERVE AN AWARD FOR THAT. All in all it is one of my favorite chapters.

Chapter 4 "Devil's Deal": My favorite chapter to replay. Though it does have many flaws imo so here comes; First, the attacks are way too frequent, aren't we supposed to be the ones atacking the monastery? if so the attacks should be much less frequent and their defense should be significantly stronger. The vampire bat side quest is op. Do you know what i did on my hard playthrough? i just chilled in my base with heavy defenses, took all the meat from the scarlet attackers and delivered them to the bats after the demons turned on the humans so they the bat's nests wont be raided with a full attack. The vampire bats did all the rest for me. Which brings me to the next point, why does the demons and humans turn on each other? it made the map progressively easier rather than becoming harder with it. imo it should be an optional quest where we make Balnazzar lose his telepathic power rather him just snapping at the humans while he is at war for no reason. There is a bug when balnazzar reanimated by dark rangers and i kill them they still drop a ghost for him even though they were "Reanimated" never mind me if this was intentional. Also i have found the hidden pendant of mana up the hill .

Chapter 5 "A Rallying Point": I am unable to complete this chapter on hard mode without cheats. Even though i got the reinforcements as early as possible and took every powerup for Sylvanas in the previous chapters im still unable to win this one on hard. I think the first few waves should be nerfed a bit to give time for the player to finish the optional quest without letting orgrimmar be completely swarmed. I have noticed that there are alot of creeps and places to explore in this map which i liked, but when are we supposed to do that? is there a specific time where we can go on exploring without letting orgrimmar be overwhelmed?

Chapter 6 "Battle for the Undercity": This chapter is amazing. It puts you through stress and makes you super focused and calculative. There are some stuff that i would like to alter; The first objective of the chapter where to free the forsaken bases can be done right from the start. After killing the first general and claiming the first base, i could simply take all the starting units and assault the next one with call of the queen. Then proceed and claim the third one with banshee queen. If this is what is intended then fine but if not they i think u should know about it. Overall the chapter is well thought and the pacing is perfect.

Chapter 7 "Into the Frozen Heart of Northrend": Amazingly thought out and perfectly executed. I love how it mirrors Arthas's landing back in the frozen throne campaign. I like that we can also control the blood elves here as it adds to the variety of units that we could make. The terrain could use a bit more work though. I also fail to see a reward for completing the optional quest where we kill all the valkyrs on the map.

Chapter 8 "Azjol-Nerub": This map sent shivers down my spine for how creepy it was. I like the atmosphere and the feeling of uncertainty. Personally im not a big fan of these kind of maps because i prefer a base-building map. Also it had nothing to do with the forsaken so i probably wont be replaying this chapter as much as the other.

Chapter 9 "Hearts in Ice": I like like that the lore goes in-depth with this chapter. But otherwise same thoughts as chappter 8.

Chapter 10 "Hour of the Forsaken": Amazingly executed. One of my favorites. Here are my concerns; The 3 valkyrs at the start are taking a huge proportion of the base, they need to be flying or moved somewhere else. Is the orb of frost the only reason to kill the valkyr that is loyal to the lich king? because if so then i do not think that it is a worthy reward for such a quest tbh. Otherwise i enjoyed this chapter and replayed it for a bazillion of times.

Chapter 11 "Trial of Monsters": This chapter goes even with Devil's Deal as my favorite. Though it has ALOT of problems imo. So here they are; First, there is no reason to take the obelisks. The ideal play is to destroy all the scourge bases and once they are all cleared out go ahead and take the obelisks. Arthas is easy to deal with when you've got your army and heroes. The problem is that the only defeat condition is when your base is destroyed. In blizzard's finale, you had to go for the obelisks otherwise illidan would take them and you would lose, that was the motivation. But here there isn't any motivation, so there has to be a motivation for us to take the obelisks like if Arthas seals all 4 of them then we lose. The next point is that the frost wyrm base needs to be tones down. Its making WAAY too many froswt wyrms imo when considering the balance of the other attacking forces. A change that i would like to make is to have an "Inaccessible" scourge base where we cannot destroy it that Arthas gets revived from. Arthas also needs to have a complete AI so that he attacks with an army, not by himself. Also imo he should not attack our bases, he should simply go for the obelisks every 5-10 minutes until he takes them all and we lose.

Chapter 12 "Fall of the Lich King": This chapter is perfect as it is. A fitting intro and a climactic end. The boss fights are all well planned and the hype is real. Amazing job on this one too.


There is a consistent problem in all of the base-building chapters where lumber is waaaay too scarce for no reason. An easy way to fix this without having to redo the terrain is to simply increase the HP of all tree types by a little bit.






All in all, this is the best campaign i have ever played that tops rise of the blood elves (which is also amazing) and tops even blizzard's own campaign imo. Well done and excellent work

 

[Yuefang]

4- Apethecaries: aight, prepare for a huge review about these guys.

A) First of all, none of their abilities could be auto casted. Which means each and everyone of them requires micro management in order to be functional.

B) Shadow bolt imo does not fit the apothecary unit. It feels like a demonic ability rather than chemical or undeath-ly. Personally not a big fan of it. I would replace it with an autocast ability that funstions similar to the naga siren's "Parasite" spell but would remove the spawning creature. This way you have an autocast damage spell that combos with the plague or any ability that requires the target to die like outbreak and black arrow.

C) Cleanse Toxins is nice and all but Anti Magic Shell is really better than it in almost every department. Even though it does have its unique uses, its still way too similar to AMS imo. I would replace it with another spell.

7- Vampire Bats: Tbh i hardly used these guys so do not take my points seriously. I find them not very useful because iirc their main job is countering enemy flyers. Which they are not very good at imo. What are they gonna do when 3+ Frostwyrms and some Valkyrs swarm my base in "Trial of Monsters". Frostwyrms does not take extra damage from normal attacks, and while valkyrs do take extra damage, they have a huge chunk of hp for these guys to do anything worth their time and resources.

2- Putress: Perfect as he is. Though im struggling to figure out how/why am i supposed to use ooze when i could just elixir of death for a lower mana cost? i dont like that ooze is uncontrollable but thats just me.

Now to the Best Part, the chapters:

Chapter 3 "Disdain": I also like the optional quest with the kirin tor though i think the reward is a little bit weird. Instead of giving u a bunch of consumables, how about Rhonin gives you 1 powerful item? i would say the locket but there is already an interlude for it so it would not do.

Chapter 5 "A Rallying Point": I am unable to complete this chapter on hard mode without cheats. Even though i got the reinforcements as early as possible and took every powerup for Sylvanas in the previous chapters im still unable to win this one on hard. I think the first few waves should be nerfed a bit to give time for the player to finish the optional quest without letting orgrimmar be completely swarmed. I have noticed that there are alot of creeps and places to explore in this map which i liked, but when are we supposed to do that? is there a specific time where we can go on exploring without letting orgrimmar be overwhelmed?

Nice review there! I agree with some things, just these little ones opinions:
-Anti Magic Shell is better, but you can't spam Anti Magic Shell on all your army, it'll require much mana and a lot of banshees, I speak of course of the spam of Cripple the enemy does and when they buff their army with the same valkyr's buff you have or the rage spell(forgot the name) from Necromancers on all the Crypt Fiends and Abominations, or Frost Wyrms too, so it's really different from it, and don't forget that deals damage to summoned units, filthy mage skeletons, I hate them so much.
-That's why they have their Blood Plague that's a pretty nice ability along with lifesteal, they're not overpowered like Dreadguards but I like using them a lot.
-Actually, you can control the ooze, but as Putress is a melee hero it'll explode in contact since he's most of the time at the frontline, and the ooze deals aoe damage, I use it pretty often to kill the necromancers and banshees.
-Huh, I don't think the Kirin Tor would lend the Forsaken a powerful item, and if they do, perhaps they'll regret after the Dalaran meeting.
-Chapter 5 is fine in Hard if ya ask me, though it may be cuz I'm pretty used to do micro, but with Thrall and Jaina you can defend the base(after gathering reinforcements) while Sylvanas go to explore since his black arrow would spam a lot of Skeletons, excepting the dragons nearby and the golems, you can pretty much clear the map with her, and then, whenn reinforcementss arrive you can go to explore, the time they take to desstroy the Scourge base was more than enough in some gameplays I saw.

 

[Venombite]

Have replayed the campaign a week or two ago and had found two bugs (probably created by the newest patches):

1. In chapter 3 when you posses a big murloc, you get him, but nothing else happens, you don't get the other murlocs.
2. In chapter 9 Quel'Dalar quest was broken. I collected all 5 saronite bars, but they didn't combine into one and when I came to Aethas nothing happened.

On the side note I think chapter 5 is a bit to hard on normal, and that lich spawns too often, and there are abnormal number of frost wyrms, you're heroes run out of mana little too fast, imo would be a lot more fun if the heroes (or Jaina and Thrall at least) could achive one more level. I have also been opening the campaign in WE to see how the units look and stuff, and don't know if that has caused these bugs. Just saying if you ever update the campaign again, what bugs I've encountered.

I've deleted all my save games, progress and downloaded the campaign again. Have been replaying it again, this time without opening the campaign in WE, and am now on chapter 11. Bugs I found:

1. The murloc quest is still broken. It works if you play the map from the start, but when you save/load (which you have to more often than not cause the map is quite challenging), it doesn't work. You only get the big murloc and nothing else happens.
2. Some chapters/interludes (though mostly chapters) do not appear on the campaign loading screen.
3. When I liberated the Brill in chapter 6 I got the abomination quest. I couldn't do it straight away cause a bunch of demons/forsaken were constantly attacking. I took the southern base(with the castle), lost the Brill, destroyed the upper demon base, than took the other forsaken base and destroyed the demon base next to it. Then I searched for the abomination, but it was nowhere to be found. I used "iseedeadpeople" and the abomination was nowhere. I did do save/load at some point.
4. Quel'Dalar quest works fine now. Massage do not open the campaign with the WE.

Things I noticed that are not exactly bugs, but rather oversights:

• I think that Sylvanas(post chapter 5) and Vereesa(not sure about Lor'themar and Liandrin) use outdated models. Their mouths have been improved on the newer versions. The guy who made those two also has a Rhonin model that would fit the campaign perfectly. He has also a bunch of Jaina models as well.
• In the interludes where high elf Sylvanas battles Arthas dragonhawks/dragonhawk knighs have blood elven skins instead of RoC highelven.
• In chapter 9 in Jaina and Vereesa group there are two blood elven sorceresses, not high elven. Imo that doesn't make sense, cause both Jaina and Vereesa are team Alliance and Vereesa is the leader of the high elves.
• In the "Invasion of Northrend" interlude we see the orc armada with the bunch of wyverns and bets. The alliance one has the gunship, bunch of gyrocopters, but no gryphons and hippogryps/hippogryph risers. The forsaken and blood elven doesn't have a single air unit, no vampire bats no dragonhawks.
• In chapter 7 the vrykuls are led by a san'leyn blood prince. That dosen't make sense science you already have two vrykul heroes.
• There is a vrykul archer skin that would imo fit a vrykul ranged unit much better than the spearman,
• It is really confusing that we have two identical val'kyr with two different skin, it's imo completely unnecessary and makes control harder. Perhaps blue ones can be scourge, red forsaken and gold vrykul, or something.
• Imo forsaken meat wagons could use a different models since they are about spreading blight and plague not carrying and digging corpses. Apothecary could use an autocast spell.
• The heroes that appear, as uncontrollable, in chapters 10, 11 and 12 could reach level 10 in chapters where we control them so they can use their full powers in those challenging chapters.
• Imo Anub'arak definitely deserves a boss fight in the last chapter, the crypt fiends really give us headache in the last couple of chapters. Maybe after activating the obelisks and before Kel'thuzard.
• In chapter 11 the Horde has much more units and looks much cooler than the Alliance. Maybe Alliance could have rifflemen in chapters 10 and 11. I would also love to see more of the Silver Covenant(cause of Vereesa), perhaps replace the night elf archer with the high elf one, or add a new high elf unit to the alliance I don't know.

Everything else in the campaign is perfect. I hope the comment is somewhat helpful if you ever update the campaign again.
edit: I was playing the newest version of the campaign on the latest patch.

 

[Noble Lolicon]

Hello! This is my first feedback and I'm still at chapter 3 but the Murloc quest thingy does not update when I possessed Mrgglrr II and as far as story goes though it's not a big deal. (seems to work fine when I restarted warcraft)

If is just for me then all is good but I just want to let you know about it.

Some of the lines are cringy. (Not that it's so bad that I wanna roll in the ground but more like I want to scratch my back kind)

Great improvement though compared to the early versions!
Going to update this again after I finished it!

Thanks for the dedication and hard work mate~

 

[SLICED]

aight, finished this campaign for like the 999999999th time. Yes, its THAT fun.
anyways, now i've decided to give it a full review.

i know that you said you were done with this one and that it is complete, but im posting this just in case you change your mind later on.



Tech Tree:

overall the techtree is very unique and interesting. Its not one of the best because IT IS THE BEST. However, i do have some critical points to consider.

1- Ghouls: They need to go. Like seriously, they look too scourgy and imo does not really fit into the forsaken at all. I would replace them with something else like deathstalkers (the forsaken rouges) or any other light melee infantry that would fit with the forsaken. Also they are pretty much worthless beyond chapter 1 tbh they die with 2 hits and are not worth investing money into them or they upgrades and they donot combo very well with other units from the tech tree. The normal workers would harvest lumber as they already can.

2- Dark Ranger: There guys are AMAZING. There are slight changes that i would like to have for them though.

A) Why do they have 2 arrow types? i know that its for the sake of diversity but it really overlaps the other imo. Also black arrows overlap with sylvanas's black arrows which would result in a weaker dark minion because the dark rangers overwrites sylvanas's stronger variation sometimes. so i would probably limit them to 1 arrow type.

B) even after their range was buffed, they are still kinda unrewarding to be used in later chapters simply because they die way too fast. My suggestion is to either give them the normal 700 range, or buff their hp and make them a little bit more expensive.

C) the ghost that spawns upon the dark ranger is a neat idea, though it seems a little bit pointless as they are imo pretty worthless. I would probably give them a weak spell to spam at first, and then when out of mana they would start attacking as they do right now. Also they should be considered as a summoned creature with a limited life time because as of right now u can spam a million ghost army as they cost 0 food (though who would do that). This could also be an upgradable research instead of having it right off the bat. Could be names something like "Will of The Forsaken" since she literally came back from death to fight again.


3 - Dreadguards: these guys are perfect as they are tbh, they used to be broken but after the nerf they are perfect. The only thing that i would change from they is to remove the "Drain life" ability alonside their mana bar. Because they do not need to be able to attack air units and imo they should not be healing without the lifesteal upgrade.

4- Apethecaries: aight, prepare for a huge review about these guys.

A) First of all, none of their abilities could be auto casted. Which means each and everyone of them requires micro management in order to be functional.

B) Shadow bolt imo does not fit the apothecary unit. It feels like a demonic ability rather than chemical or undeath-ly. Personally not a big fan of it. I would replace it with an autocast ability that funstions similar to the naga siren's "Parasite" spell but would remove the spawning creature. This way you have an autocast damage spell that combos with the plague or any ability that requires the target to die like outbreak and black arrow.

C) Cleanse Toxins is nice and all but Anti Magic Shell is really better than it in almost every department. Even though it does have its unique uses, its still way too similar to AMS imo. I would replace it with another spell. What would be it you ask? well i have a couple of ideas;

1- "Hazy Potion": Something similar to the "Banish" spell from the blood mage. This would combo well with banshee's Vengeance ability as well as the auto cast damage spell i suggested earlier. Also it would not overlap any other ability in the tech tree that i can remember. Can be used offensively and defensively supporting the apothecary as a "Primary Spellcaster".

2- "Enraging Acid": summons a ward-like thing on the ground that has a low level endurance aura of some sorts. Having it as an "Aura" allows it to affect your units even when they are under the effects of anti magic shell. Would not overlap any other forsaken ability.

D) Healing Flasks is amazing. It also can be better. The mana cost and the aoe is underwhelming considering the amount it heals. I would probably decrease the mana cost to 90 or 100.

5- Banshees: My favorite unit. There are 3 things that are bugging me atm. First, why does the vengence upgrade replace curse? it limits the banshee's options while ethereal. I mean its an "Upgrade" so we spent gold, lumber, and time on it so it shouldn't replace anything. Banshees should just acquire this ability upon research while keeping curse. Second, why are banshees unaffected by regenerative flesh? i mean i understand why if they are in ethereal form but when they are corporeal i do not see a reason as to why they do not benefit from it. Third, why do they only have 500 attack range? every spellcaster in the game has 600 so why is the banshee the only spellcaster that has its range nerfed?

6- Abominations: these guys are perfect as it is. Though why are they classified as a different unit than the scourge's abomination? it interferes with me when i try to possess enemy abominations and find out that they do not have my upgrades. they are also in a different selection group when i group them with my own abominations :/

7- Vampire Bats: Tbh i hardly used these guys so do not take my points seriously. I find them not very useful because iirc their main job is countering enemy flyers. Which they are not very good at imo. What are they gonna do when 3+ Frostwyrms and some Valkyrs swarm my base in "Trial of Monsters". Frostwyrms does not take extra damage from normal attacks, and while valkyrs do take extra damage, they have a huge chunk of hp for these guys to do anything worth their time and resources.

8- Meat Wagons: They just need a model change. Thats it. I suggest using the "Forsaken Catapult" from hiveworkshop.

9 - Valkyr: Overall pretty good and combos with a lot of different strategies that you can use with this amazing tech tree. I would buff her mana to 400 though instead of 350 and increase the duration of unholy protection to 15 seconds instead of 10 as it costs 200 mana. Because the way they are, you are better reviving your fallen for 75 mana rather than spending 200 mana protecting them. 200 mana are worth 5 revives, which combos with dark rangers ghosts . Speaking of revive, it's targeting system is bugging me alot. Why does it prefer to revive fallen black spiders than abominations for example? it also prefers to revive the dead maggots from the outbreak ability from the abominations and turn them into a permanent unit. the targeting system needs to change. Or simply make it that black spiders/maggots does not drop corpses upon death.



Now we move on to heroes:

1- Sylvanas Windrunner: She is pretty amazing. Here are my thoughts on her:

A) Silence: Perfect, nothing to change. The spell combos well and does not get overlapped with other abilities in the tech tree.

B) Black Arrow: It overlaps with Dark rangers. One of them need to have their ability changed or reworked. Not sure what to do here, but i would probably change sylvanas's black arrow into "Wailing Arrow" like the one she has in heroes of the storm where it is an active ability that travels a set distance and explodes for an aoe damage. Would replace its silencing effect with something else though.

C) Drain Life: Meh, i didnt like this ability of hers tbh even though it is original. It really does not fit for a ranged character that hardly needs healing and it looks very demonic rather than undead. I would probably replace it with something else. Maybe a passive ability that summons ghosts/wraiths each time its condition is fulfilled?

D) Call of The Queen: The idea is spectacular. Here is my review concerning this ability; First, i think it should be an item ability for "Sylvanas's Locket" because she summons her banshees when she sees this item in WoW. So as a baseline ultimate spell, i would probably giver her the original "Charm" spell as i think its her signature move. Would probably change the charm icon to "Icon of Torment" though which is the forsaken sigil.

E) Banshee Queen: Perfect as it is. This ability is COOL AF btw, was hyped af when i got it unlocked. Good job on it.

2- Putress: Perfect as he is. Though im struggling to figure out how/why am i supposed to use ooze when i could just elixir of death for a lower mana cost? i dont like that ooze is uncontrollable but thats just me.

3 - Varimathras: Honestly i really like that u didnt change anything with him. though it is sad that we never have a chance to unlock his ultimate as he betrays us before we have a chance to do so.


Now to the Best Part, the chapters:


Chapter 1 "A Necessary Intervention": This chapter is a great introduction to the campaign and sets everything out perfectly for the new player. Here are my thoughts; At the start, the player should not have a base and they need to build up their own when they destroy the scarlet base. It feels weird a little bit to start with a crypt and a shadowhall only for the gold mine to explode. imo it would be a better introduction to have the new player start from 0.
There is an exploit here where you could destroy the souther scarlet base that spams casters (the one that is very close to the first objective) before you assault the gold mine base. Im guessing that we are not meant to do that but its an exploit that removes an attacking base early on with minimal effort. Needs to change imo.


Chapter 2 "Icy Menace": Pretty good, though i do not understand the optional quest. Like why is it there? i get that there is a gold mine but there are expansion slots all over the campaign why does this one has an optional quest for it. especially that the starting resources are not scarce and there is a gold mine right next to our base which also happens to be unprotected. I would probably change the optional quest into something else. By the way i like that you changed phaelynn into putress, i always disliked gender bent characters. I also like that you removed the worgen chapter in silverpine forest since it made little sense back then. Good job.


Chapter 3 "Disdain": I would have loved to see more interaction between the forsaken and the crusade with characters like "Brigitte Abbendis" as part of me wanted the story arc against the crusade to be slightly longer before the balnazzar reveal. I like the double base approach as it indeed adds to the challenge. The optional quest of possessing murlocs is a great homage to "The Dark Lady" chapter of blizzard's TFT campaign, i like that. I also like the optional quest with the kirin tor though i think the reward is a little bit weird. Instead of giving u a bunch of consumables, how about Rhonin gives you 1 powerful item? i would say the locket but there is already an interlude for it so it would not do. The build up and the climax when sylvanas unleashes her banshee form had me screaming and hyped up to slaughter anyone in my way. IT IS AMAAAAAAZING YOU DESERVE AN AWARD FOR THAT. All in all it is one of my favorite chapters.

Chapter 4 "Devil's Deal": My favorite chapter to replay. Though it does have many flaws imo so here comes; First, the attacks are way too frequent, aren't we supposed to be the ones atacking the monastery? if so the attacks should be much less frequent and their defense should be significantly stronger. The vampire bat side quest is op. Do you know what i did on my hard playthrough? i just chilled in my base with heavy defenses, took all the meat from the scarlet attackers and delivered them to the bats after the demons turned on the humans so they the bat's nests wont be raided with a full attack. The vampire bats did all the rest for me. Which brings me to the next point, why does the demons and humans turn on each other? it made the map progressively easier rather than becoming harder with it. imo it should be an optional quest where we make Balnazzar lose his telepathic power rather him just snapping at the humans while he is at war for no reason. There is a bug when balnazzar reanimated by dark rangers and i kill them they still drop a ghost for him even though they were "Reanimated" never mind me if this was intentional. Also i have found the hidden pendant of mana up the hill .

Chapter 5 "A Rallying Point": I am unable to complete this chapter on hard mode without cheats. Even though i got the reinforcements as early as possible and took every powerup for Sylvanas in the previous chapters im still unable to win this one on hard. I think the first few waves should be nerfed a bit to give time for the player to finish the optional quest without letting orgrimmar be completely swarmed. I have noticed that there are alot of creeps and places to explore in this map which i liked, but when are we supposed to do that? is there a specific time where we can go on exploring without letting orgrimmar be overwhelmed?

Chapter 6 "Battle for the Undercity": This chapter is amazing. It puts you through stress and makes you super focused and calculative. There are some stuff that i would like to alter; The first objective of the chapter where to free the forsaken bases can be done right from the start. After killing the first general and claiming the first base, i could simply take all the starting units and assault the next one with call of the queen. Then proceed and claim the third one with banshee queen. If this is what is intended then fine but if not they i think u should know about it. Overall the chapter is well thought and the pacing is perfect.

Chapter 7 "Into the Frozen Heart of Northrend": Amazingly thought out and perfectly executed. I love how it mirrors Arthas's landing back in the frozen throne campaign. I like that we can also control the blood elves here as it adds to the variety of units that we could make. The terrain could use a bit more work though. I also fail to see a reward for completing the optional quest where we kill all the valkyrs on the map.

Chapter 8 "Azjol-Nerub": This map sent shivers down my spine for how creepy it was. I like the atmosphere and the feeling of uncertainty. Personally im not a big fan of these kind of maps because i prefer a base-building map. Also it had nothing to do with the forsaken so i probably wont be replaying this chapter as much as the other.

Chapter 9 "Hearts in Ice": I like like that the lore goes in-depth with this chapter. But otherwise same thoughts as chappter 8.

Chapter 10 "Hour of the Forsaken": Amazingly executed. One of my favorites. Here are my concerns; The 3 valkyrs at the start are taking a huge proportion of the base, they need to be flying or moved somewhere else. Is the orb of frost the only reason to kill the valkyr that is loyal to the lich king? because if so then i do not think that it is a worthy reward for such a quest tbh. Otherwise i enjoyed this chapter and replayed it for a bazillion of times.

Chapter 11 "Trial of Monsters": This chapter goes even with Devil's Deal as my favorite. Though it has ALOT of problems imo. So here they are; First, there is no reason to take the obelisks. The ideal play is to destroy all the scourge bases and once they are all cleared out go ahead and take the obelisks. Arthas is easy to deal with when you've got your army and heroes. The problem is that the only defeat condition is when your base is destroyed. In blizzard's finale, you had to go for the obelisks otherwise illidan would take them and you would lose, that was the motivation. But here there isn't any motivation, so there has to be a motivation for us to take the obelisks like if Arthas seals all 4 of them then we lose. The next point is that the frost wyrm base needs to be tones down. Its making WAAY too many froswt wyrms imo when considering the balance of the other attacking forces. A change that i would like to make is to have an "Inaccessible" scourge base where we cannot destroy it that Arthas gets revived from. Arthas also needs to have a complete AI so that he attacks with an army, not by himself. Also imo he should not attack our bases, he should simply go for the obelisks every 5-10 minutes until he takes them all and we lose.

Chapter 12 "Fall of the Lich King": This chapter is perfect as it is. A fitting intro and a climactic end. The boss fights are all well planned and the hype is real. Amazing job on this one too.


There is a consistent problem in all of the base-building chapters where lumber is waaaay too scarce for no reason. An easy way to fix this without having to redo the terrain is to simply increase the HP of all tree types by a little bit.






All in all, this is the best campaign i have ever played that tops rise of the blood elves (which is also amazing) and tops even blizzard's own campaign imo. Well done and excellent work

1 - Yes, Ghouls should go, doesn't really makes sense for them to be part of the Forsaken cause they're mindless creatures, and Workers can take care of the lumbering, maybe with an Improved Lumber Harvesting upgrade. But afaik, deathstalkers are Sylvanas' elite rogue units in WoW. I wouldn't consider them as light infantry, they would be pretty powerful.. so maybe make them tier 3 and to be trained at the Crypt, whereas Dreadguards should prob be nerfed a bit and actually replace the ghouls' position in the Crypt as tier 1.

2

A: Dark Rangers should indeed be limited to one arrow-type, maybe only the Poison Arrow cause it makes sense with all the "Forsaken Plague". Sylvanas should be the only one to use Black Arrow because she's prob the only entitled one. *Logically*, mindless skellies would listen to someone more powerful like Sylvanas and not some ordinary units.

B: They could really use the Improved Bows upgrade. Every Archer unit in the game has that because they need it later on in the campaign. And maybe change its icon to look more like a black bow.

C: Nah, them turning into ghosts shouldn't be researchable. I think it makes sense lorewise for the Dark Rangers to turn into ghosts literally after they die cause they are the "banshee" sisters of Sylvanas. But they should indeed have a limited lifetime like skellies do.

3 - Should the ghouls be removed, the Dreadguards could be nerfed a little bit more and be made the ideal frontline units at tier 1. Maybe they could have a weak Vampiric Aura initially instead of Drain Life and then they would get the Siphon Life upgrade along with Spell Runes as they would still be viable later on. Also, later on they could get another upgrade which would make them a lot more powerful units at tier 3, sorta like Abominations, similar to how Troll Headhunters change into Troll Berserkers. However, the new unit researched for the Dreadguard, maybe called something like Elite Dreadguard, would cost more resources and food.

4 - Apothecaries do feel quite hard to micro.

A - B: Yeah, they should have at least one autocast that costs 12-15 mana. Maybe make one of their autoattacks stun with a cooldown of 10 seconds, call it Plague Bolt or something which would act like a sort of ensnare with a 1.5 second stun, so that it replaces the Shadow Bolt, which, as you said, doesn't really fit in well with them.

C: Cleanse Toxin is a really good AoE ability. It's better than AMS because it also deals damage to summoned units and it theoretically costs less mana, considering you'll be fighting a lot of skellies most of the time. Also, I think AMS should be removed, but we'll get to that in a bit. It doesn't make sense for them to have a sort of Banish spell because they're not mages, they're sorta chemists.

D: You would normally use Healing Flasks to heal your frontline. The AoE is fine, maybe the range from which the Apothecary casts it should be increased. The mana can remain at 150 because if its mana would be decreased and the healing would remain the same you would mostly use this ability over the other ones as it doesn't have any cd, plus you need mana for your other abilities. So, increase its healing cause the frontline typically has more hp than the other spellcaster/ranged units. It would be quite op to use it on Dark Rangers or Banshees etc. but that's not really the point. Also make it a 6 second cooldown. You could say the current ability goes well with Putress' Elixir of Death but Healing Flasks is an AoE.

5 - I think the state, Corporeal Form, doesn't really make sense because.. well.. Banshees are literally ghosts/wraiths/spirits which means they are ethereal all the time. Lament of the Highborne could maybe transcend them into the spirit world/Shadowlands making them "more ethereal" and they should be able to attack in that form so that the inconsistency with Curse/Vengeance could be solved or maybe make it so that they have Curse while in "Ethereal Form". Regenerative Flesh shouldn't apply to ghosts. Their range should indeed be increased considering what they do with their main ability. As I said earlier, AMS should be straight up removed in this custom campaign. Even though it makes sense for them to have it lorewise, it doesn't fit well with Apothecaries' Cleanse Toxin ability. Instead of AMS, they could have that sort of Banish spell so that it's set up really well with their other abilities, but maybe change its green mist icon to a purple one as an example. Banish makes sense for them to use because they are the banshee sisters of Sylvanas, spirits of fallen high elves, elves who possessed a lot of knowledge about magic.

6 - To clear out the issue with having two different Abominations, they should just be removed from the Forsaken techtree. Same situation with Ghouls: they are mindless creatures, they don't fit with the Forsaken people. There are indeed a couple of them in WoW, but maybe they could be made so that you control them in some specific base-building chapters. Like Captain in the Human campaign or Naisha in the Sentinel campaign, Gordo and some other would-be-named Aboms could just be made Abomination-type units which you can't train. Which heavy-tier 3- type units would replace them ? The newly upgraded Dreadguards I talked about earlier.

7 - Vampire Bats are perfect the way they are. They are prob the best anti-air units in the whole campaign, taking into account they also possess really good abilities/passives. They don't cost that much, maybe their gold cost could be lowered by 20-30 G, they only use 2 Food which means you can train quite a lot of them, maybe decrease their training time. I think 4-5 of them can kill a Frost Wyrm. If you have like 12 of them you can easily take down those couple Frost Wyrms and Val'kyr. Frost Wyrms don't take extra damage from Normal attacks.. but considering the Vampire Bats' Normal damage, without any upgrades, is 50-59... that's quite a lot. Plus they also seem to attack slightly faster in melee range.

8 - Yep.

9 - The Val'kyr should indeed have 400-450 mana. Their Unholy Protection can remain at 200 mana but the 10 armor buff should last for over 30-45 seconds, while the heal could be 200 or actually remain the same considering you also have Apothecaries' Healing Flasks for more sustain. Yep, the Black Spiders and the Maggots should be made so as to not drop corpses.

Regarding the techtree, as I mentioned before, Dreadguards should be tier 1 and be able to be trained as the first units from the Crypt and later on they could benefit from a unit-type upgrade, similar to "Troll Berserker". Deathstalkers should be introduced into the techtree as new rogue/assassin like units which are tier 3 and also trained at the Crypt. The Forsaken Catapults, replacing the default Meat Wagons, should also be trained at the Crypt. The Slaughterhouse should be removed, as it feels too Undead Scourge-type building. Replacing it would be the Vampire Bat Nest from which you can train Vampire Bats along with their researchable upgrades. The Temple of the Damned, Boneyard and Graveyard buildings don't fit in well with the Forsaken, plus the corpses the latter generates are useless now. Crypt could be named differently. But all in all, the techtree is pretty awesome !


Heroes:

1 - Sylvanas:

A: Yep.

B: Black Arrow is fine if the one from the Dark Rangers is removed.

C - D: Yes, Drain Life feels a bit off for her to have. Replacing it could be the locket she carries. What I mean is that the locket won't be an item anymore but it will instead be her third ability, giving her those passive stats and also enabling her to use a nerfed version of Call of the Queen. Thus she could also keep her Charm as an ultimate ability. Or, these two could just be swapped: either have Call of the Queen from the locket or Charm as her 3rd ability. Now, you may be wondering.. what do you do with Vereesa's locket ? Well, make it an ability too. She has pretty good abilities. But maybe her ultimate could come from her locket, and, just like in the case of Sylvanas', it would grant the stats the item offers.

E: Yeah, best ability. Truly amazing !

2 - Putress: You can control the ooze. In most of the chapters you're fighting undead, Elixir of Death is useless against them. Devastating Ooze can actually deal some real damage especially against ranged units/spellcasters.

3 - I think Varimathras should literally have been level 10 from the start, or at least 6. We have already played with both him and Sylvanas in the main Legacy of the Damned campaign. It would be fitting that we could continue our progress with him from where we left off. You could say the same about Sylvanas but maybe some kind of power of the Scarlet Crusade diminishes her force, somewhat similar to how Arthas began losing his powers when he was speaking to the Lich King, at least I would take that as granted for a reason.

Chapters:

7 - You do get rewards for killing the Val'kyr. Some of them drop items like: Potion of Greater Healing, Scroll of Unholy Legion, Slippers of Agility +3, Scroll of Healing and Talisman of Evasion.

11 - Don't wanna sound mean but it's actually really funny: because Arthas is (un)dead now, he has started showing signs of Alzheimmer so he actually forgot that he captured those obelisks a few years ago xD Yeah, agree with you regarding the obelisks. They should prob even be removed. Also, it feels like we should have fought Arthas only in Chapter Twelve.

Supportive review nonetheless. Nice one !

I've deleted all my save games, progress and downloaded the campaign again. Have been replaying it again, this time without opening the campaign in WE, and am now on chapter 11. Bugs I found:

1. The murloc quest is still broken. It works if you play the map from the start, but when you save/load (which you have to more often than not cause the map is quite challenging), it doesn't work. You only get the big murloc and nothing else happens.
2. Some chapters/interludes (though mostly chapters) do not appear on the campaign loading screen.
3. When I liberated the Brill in chapter 6 I got the abomination quest. I couldn't do it straight away cause a bunch of demons/forsaken were constantly attacking. I took the southern base(with the castle), lost the Brill, destroyed the upper demon base, than took the other forsaken base and destroyed the demon base next to it. Then I searched for the abomination, but it was nowhere to be found. I used "iseedeadpeople" and the abomination was nowhere. I did do save/load at some point.
4. Quel'Dalar quest works fine now. Massage do not open the campaign with the WE.

Things I noticed that are not exactly bugs, but rather oversights:

• I think that Sylvanas(post chapter 5) and Vereesa(not sure about Lor'themar and Liandrin) use outdated models. Their mouths have been improved on the newer versions. The guy who made those two also has a Rhonin model that would fit the campaign perfectly. He has also a bunch of Jaina models as well.
• In the interludes where high elf Sylvanas battles Arthas dragonhawks/dragonhawk knighs have blood elven skins instead of RoC highelven.
• In chapter 9 in Jaina and Vereesa group there are two blood elven sorceresses, not high elven. Imo that doesn't make sense, cause both Jaina and Vereesa are team Alliance and Vereesa is the leader of the high elves.
• In the "Invasion of Northrend" interlude we see the orc armada with the bunch of wyverns and bets. The alliance one has the gunship, bunch of gyrocopters, but no gryphons and hippogryps/hippogryph risers. The forsaken and blood elven doesn't have a single air unit, no vampire bats no dragonhawks.
• In chapter 7 the vrykuls are led by a san'leyn blood prince. That dosen't make sense science you already have two vrykul heroes.
• There is a vrykul archer skin that would imo fit a vrykul ranged unit much better than the spearman,
• It is really confusing that we have two identical val'kyr with two different skin, it's imo completely unnecessary and makes control harder. Perhaps blue ones can be scourge, red forsaken and gold vrykul, or something.
• Imo forsaken meat wagons could use a different models since they are about spreading blight and plague not carrying and digging corpses. Apothecary could use an autocast spell.
• The heroes that appear, as uncontrollable, in chapters 10, 11 and 12 could reach level 10 in chapters where we control them so they can use their full powers in those challenging chapters.
• Imo Anub'arak definitely deserves a boss fight in the last chapter, the crypt fiends really give us headache in the last couple of chapters. Maybe after activating the obelisks and before Kel'thuzard.
• In chapter 11 the Horde has much more units and looks much cooler than the Alliance. Maybe Alliance could have rifflemen in chapters 10 and 11. I would also love to see more of the Silver Covenant(cause of Vereesa), perhaps replace the night elf archer with the high elf one, or add a new high elf unit to the alliance I don't know.

Everything else in the campaign is perfect. I hope the comment is somewhat helpful if you ever update the campaign again.
edit: I was playing the newest version of the campaign on the latest patch.

First of all, which Patch Version are you using ?

1. Works on 1.31.
2. Yep.
3. Now, this is a spoiler:

Spoiler: Gordo

Gordo might have been killed. Right when the optional quest is discovered, he is spawned in the northern part of the map and just wanders around. Try to get him really fast before the enemies can cluster in their waves at you. Maybe send a skelly after him.

4. On 1.31, Quel'Delar still has the bug which makes its abilities disappear at one point, maybe from lagspikes.

Totally agree with you regarding the non-bugs/suggestions.. but:

In Chapter Seven, I think there should have been only one Undead Scourge base with Prince Valanar as their main hero, then have Prince Taldaram in Chapter Ten and then Prince Keleseth in Chapter Eleven. In the end, in Chapter Twelve, you have to fight all 3 of them. Also, Anub'arak deserves a spot in the last chapter. However, considering the campaign is based on WotLK, afaik, he wasn't part of the Icecrown Citadel. He was killed in the Trial of the Crusader, so it kinda makes sense for him to die in Chapter Eight.

All in all, fair observation !

Hello! This is my first feedback and I'm still at chapter 3 but the Murloc quest thingy does not update when I possessed Mrgglrr II and as far as story goes though it's not a big deal. (seems to work fine when I restarted warcraft)

If is just for me then all is good but I just want to let you know about it.

Some of the lines are cringy. (Not that it's so bad that I wanna roll in the ground but more like I want to scratch my back kind)

Great improvement though compared to the early versions!
Going to update this again after I finished it!

Thanks for the dedication and hard work mate~

Hi ! Which Patch Version are you using ? The murloc quest works fine on 1.31.

 

[Noble Lolicon]

1 - Yes, Ghouls should go, doesn't really makes sense for them to be part of the Forsaken cause they're mindless creatures, and Workers can take care of the lumbering, maybe with an Improved Lumber Harvesting upgrade. But afaik, deathstalkers are Sylvanas' elite rogue units in WoW. I wouldn't consider them as light infantry, they would be pretty powerful.. so maybe make them tier 3 and to be trained at the Crypt, whereas Dreadguards should prob be nerfed a bit and actually replace the ghouls' position in the Crypt as tier 1.

2

A: Dark Rangers should indeed be limited to one arrow-type, maybe only the Poison Arrow cause it makes sense with all the "Forsaken Plague". Sylvanas should be the only one to use Black Arrow because she's prob the only entitled one. *Logically*, mindless skellies would listen to someone more powerful like Sylvanas and not some ordinary units.

B: They could really use the Improved Bows upgrade. Every Archer unit in the game has that because they need it later on in the campaign. And maybe change its icon to look more like a black bow.

C: Nah, them turning into ghosts shouldn't be researchable. I think it makes sense lorewise for the Dark Rangers to turn into ghosts literally after they die cause they are the "banshee" sisters of Sylvanas. But they should indeed have a limited lifetime like skellies do.

3 - Should the ghouls be removed, the Dreadguards could be nerfed a little bit more and be made the ideal frontline units at tier 1. Maybe they could have a weak Vampiric Aura initially instead of Drain Life and then they would get the Siphon Life upgrade along with Spell Runes as they would still be viable later on. Also, later on they could get another upgrade which would make them a lot more powerful units at tier 3, sorta like Abominations, similar to how Troll Headhunters change into Troll Berserkers. However, the new unit researched for the Dreadguard, maybe called something like Elite Dreadguard, would cost more resources and food.

4 - Apothecaries do feel quite hard to micro.

A - B: Yeah, they should have at least one autocast that costs 12-15 mana. Maybe make one of their autoattacks stun with a cooldown of 10 seconds, call it Plague Bolt or something which would act like a sort of ensnare with a 1.5 second stun, so that it replaces the Shadow Bolt, which, as you said, doesn't really fit in well with them.

C: Cleanse Toxin is a really good AoE ability. It's better than AMS because it also deals damage to summoned units and it theoretically costs less mana, considering you'll be fighting a lot of skellies most of the time. Also, I think AMS should be removed, but we'll get to that in a bit. It doesn't make sense for them to have a sort of Banish spell because they're not mages, they're sorta chemists.

D: You would normally use Healing Flasks to heal your frontline. The AoE is fine, maybe the range from which the Apothecary casts it should be increased. The mana can remain at 150 because if its mana would be decreased and the healing would remain the same you would mostly use this ability over the other ones as it doesn't have any cd, plus you need mana for your other abilities. So, increase its healing cause the frontline typically has more hp than the other spellcaster/ranged units. It would be quite op to use it on Dark Rangers or Banshees etc. but that's not really the point. Also make it a 6 second cooldown. You could say the current ability goes well with Putress' Elixir of Death but Healing Flasks is an AoE.

5 - I think the state, Corporeal Form, doesn't really make sense because.. well.. Banshees are literally ghosts/wraiths/spirits which means they are ethereal all the time. Lament of the Highborne could maybe transcend them into the spirit world/Shadowlands making them "more ethereal" and they should be able to attack in that form so that the inconsistency with Curse/Vengeance could be solved or maybe make it so that they have Curse while in "Ethereal Form". Regenerative Flesh shouldn't apply to ghosts. Their range should indeed be increased considering what they do with their main ability. As I said earlier, AMS should be straight up removed in this custom campaign. Even though it makes sense for them to have it lorewise, it doesn't fit well with Apothecaries' Cleanse Toxin ability. Instead of AMS, they could have that sort of Banish spell so that it's set up really well with their other abilities, but maybe change its green mist icon to a purple one as an example. Banish makes sense for them to use because they are the banshee sisters of Sylvanas, spirits of fallen high elves, elves who possessed a lot of knowledge about magic.

6 - To clear out the issue with having two different Abominations, they should just be removed from the Forsaken techtree. Same situation with Ghouls: they are mindless creatures, they don't fit with the Forsaken people. There are indeed a couple of them in WoW, but maybe they could be made so that you control them in some specific base-building chapters. Like Captain in the Human campaign or Naisha in the Sentinel campaign, Gordo and some other would-be-named Aboms could just be made Abomination-type units which you can't train. Which heavy-tier 3- type units would replace them ? The newly upgraded Dreadguards I talked about earlier.

7 - Vampire Bats are perfect the way they are. They are prob the best anti-air units in the whole campaign, taking into account they also possess really good abilities/passives. They don't cost that much, maybe their gold cost could be lowered by 20-30 G, they only use 2 Food which means you can train quite a lot of them, maybe decrease their training time. I think 4-5 of them can kill a Frost Wyrm. If you have like 12 of them you can easily take down those couple Frost Wyrms and Val'kyr. Frost Wyrms don't take extra damage from Normal attacks.. but considering the Vampire Bats' Normal damage, without any upgrades, is 50-59... that's quite a lot. Plus they also seem to attack slightly faster in melee range.

8 - Yep.

9 - The Val'kyr should indeed have 400-450 mana. Their Unholy Protection can remain at 200 mana but the 10 armor buff should last for over 30-45 seconds, while the heal could be 200 or actually remain the same considering you also have Apothecaries' Healing Flasks for more sustain. Yep, the Black Spiders and the Maggots should be made so as to not drop corpses.

Regarding the techtree, as I mentioned before, Dreadguards should be tier 1 and be able to be trained as the first units from the Crypt and later on they could benefit from a unit-type upgrade, similar to "Troll Berserker". Deathstalkers should be introduced into the techtree as new rogue/assassin like units which are tier 3 and also trained at the Crypt. The Forsaken Catapults, replacing the default Meat Wagons, should also be trained at the Crypt. The Slaughterhouse should be removed, as it feels too Undead Scourge-type building. Replacing it would be the Vampire Bat Nest from which you can train Vampire Bats along with their researchable upgrades. The Temple of the Damned, Boneyard and Graveyard buildings don't fit in well with the Forsaken, plus the corpses the latter generates are useless now. Crypt could be named differently. But all in all, the techtree is pretty awesome !


Heroes:

1 - Sylvanas:

A: Yep.

B: Black Arrow is fine if the one from the Dark Rangers is removed.

C - D: Yes, Drain Life feels a bit off for her to have. Replacing it could be the locket she carries. What I mean is that the locket won't be an item anymore but it will instead be her third ability, giving her those passive stats and also enabling her to use a nerfed version of Call of the Queen. Thus she could also keep her Charm as an ultimate ability. Or, these two could just be swapped: either have Call of the Queen from the locket or Charm as her 3rd ability. Now, you may be wondering.. what do you do with Vereesa's locket ? Well, make it an ability too. She has pretty good abilities. But maybe her ultimate could come from her locket, and, just like in the case of Sylvanas', it would grant the stats the item offers.

E: Yeah, best ability. Truly amazing !

2 - Putress: You can control the ooze. In most of the chapters you're fighting undead, Elixir of Death is useless against them. Devastating Ooze can actually deal some real damage especially against ranged units/spellcasters.

3 - I think Varimathras should literally have been level 10 from the start, or at least 6. We have already played with both him and Sylvanas in the main Legacy of the Damned campaign. It would be fitting that we could continue our progress with him from where we left off. You could say the same about Sylvanas but maybe some kind of power of the Scarlet Crusade diminishes her force, somewhat similar to how Arthas began losing his powers when he was speaking to the Lich King, at least I would take that as granted for a reason.

Chapters:

7 - You do get rewards for killing the Val'kyr. Some of them drop items like: Potion of Greater Healing, Scroll of Unholy Legion, Slippers of Agility +3, Scroll of Healing and Talisman of Evasion.

11 - Don't wanna sound mean but it's actually really funny: because Arthas is (un)dead now, he has started showing signs of Alzheimmer so he actually forgot that he captured those obelisks a few years ago xD Yeah, agree with you regarding the obelisks. They should prob even be removed. Also, it feels like we should have fought Arthas only in Chapter Twelve.

Supportive review nonetheless. Nice one !




First of all, which Patch Version are you using ?

1. Works on 1.31.
2. Yep.
3. Now, this is a spoiler:

Spoiler: Gordo

Gordo might have been killed. Right when the optional quest is discovered, he is spawned in the northern part of the map and just wanders around. Try to get him really fast before the enemies can cluster in their waves at you. Maybe send a skelly after him.

4. On 1.31, Quel'Delar still has the bug which makes its abilities disappear at one point, maybe from lagspikes.

Totally agree with you regarding the non-bugs/suggestions.. but:

In Chapter Seven, I think there should have been only one Undead Scourge base with Prince Valanar as their main hero, then have Prince Taldaram in Chapter Ten and then Prince Keleseth in Chapter Eleven. In the end, in Chapter Twelve, you have to fight all 3 of them. Also, Anub'arak deserves a spot in the last chapter. However, considering the campaign is based on WotLK, afaik, he wasn't part of the Icecrown Citadel. He was killed in the Trial of the Crusader, so it kinda makes sense for him to die in Chapter Eight.

All in all, fair observation !




Hi ! Which Patch Version are you using ? The murloc quest works fine on 1.31.

Hello~

It's on patch 1.31 and only had a problem on the first playthrough.

I just finished the campaign and it's really fun to the point that I want to continue playing but the cliff is so heart wrenching that I jumped while screaming "I want more!!!" down to my demise hoping to find Sylvanas with open arms but only her cold eyes looking at me indifferently was waiting before I waked up feeling even more distraught than when I finished it...

Anyway, here's a few of what I found: (not too important but still food for thoughts~)

Chapter 3 is missing but can be played if you play the interlude before it.

Spoiler

In chapter 7 if you possessed the val'kyr that are on the ground, you won't be able to finish the side-quest for it and if you possess the Vrykul Race you won't need to worry about not having enough food since most of them don't even need food aside from the wolf. (It's my style of playing which doesn't really guarantee efficiency at all only maximum fun, for me atleast, as the quest do tell you to slay 'em)

Spoiler

In chapter 9 you can kill the Lich King so he didn't appear in the cinematics after

That's all I guess and had fun which the best part!

Thanks and sorry for the shallow feedback from me.

 

[Venombite]

I've deleted all my save games, progress and downloaded the campaign again. Have been replaying it again, this time without opening the campaign in WE, and am now on chapter 11. Bugs I found:

1. The murloc quest is still broken. It works if you play the map from the start, but when you save/load (which you have to more often than not cause the map is quite challenging), it doesn't work. You only get the big murloc and nothing else happens.
2. Some chapters/interludes (though mostly chapters) do not appear on the campaign loading screen.
3. When I liberated the Brill in chapter 6 I got the abomination quest. I couldn't do it straight away cause a bunch of demons/forsaken were constantly attacking. I took the southern base(with the castle), lost the Brill, destroyed the upper demon base, than took the other forsaken base and destroyed the demon base next to it. Then I searched for the abomination, but it was nowhere to be found. I used "iseedeadpeople" and the abomination was nowhere. I did do save/load at some point.
4. Quel'Dalar quest works fine now. Massage do not open the campaign with the WE.

Things I noticed that are not exactly bugs, but rather oversights:

• I think that Sylvanas(post chapter 5) and Vereesa(not sure about Lor'themar and Liandrin) use outdated models. Their mouths have been improved on the newer versions. The guy who made those two also has a Rhonin model that would fit the campaign perfectly. He has also a bunch of Jaina models as well.
• In the interludes where high elf Sylvanas battles Arthas dragonhawks/dragonhawk knighs have blood elven skins instead of RoC highelven.
• In chapter 9 in Jaina and Vereesa group there are two blood elven sorceresses, not high elven. Imo that doesn't make sense, cause both Jaina and Vereesa are team Alliance and Vereesa is the leader of the high elves.
• In the "Invasion of Northrend" interlude we see the orc armada with the bunch of wyverns and bets. The alliance one has the gunship, bunch of gyrocopters, but no gryphons and hippogryps/hippogryph risers. The forsaken and blood elven doesn't have a single air unit, no vampire bats no dragonhawks.
• In chapter 7 the vrykuls are led by a san'leyn blood prince. That dosen't make sense science you already have two vrykul heroes.
• There is a vrykul archer skin that would imo fit a vrykul ranged unit much better than the spearman,
• It is really confusing that we have two identical val'kyr with two different skin, it's imo completely unnecessary and makes control harder. Perhaps blue ones can be scourge, red forsaken and gold vrykul, or something.
• Imo forsaken meat wagons could use a different models since they are about spreading blight and plague not carrying and digging corpses. Apothecary could use an autocast spell.
• The heroes that appear, as uncontrollable, in chapters 10, 11 and 12 could reach level 10 in chapters where we control them so they can use their full powers in those challenging chapters.
• Imo Anub'arak definitely deserves a boss fight in the last chapter, the crypt fiends really give us headache in the last couple of chapters. Maybe after activating the obelisks and before Kel'thuzard.
• In chapter 11 the Horde has much more units and looks much cooler than the Alliance. Maybe Alliance could have rifflemen in chapters 10 and 11. I would also love to see more of the Silver Covenant(cause of Vereesa), perhaps replace the night elf archer with the high elf one, or add a new high elf unit to the alliance I don't know.

Everything else in the campaign is perfect. I hope the comment is somewhat helpful if you ever update the campaign again.
edit: I was playing the newest version of the campaign on the latest patch.

I'm playing on patch 1.31.1.something. Found another bug:

• After using save/load in chapter 11 the buildings get strangely oriented also happend in chapter 6 but I thought it wasn't important enough if it happens in just one chapter.

First of all, which Patch Version are you using ?

1. Works on 1.31.
2. Yep.
3. Now, this is a spoiler:

Spoiler: Gordo

Gordo might have been killed. Right when the optional quest is discovered, he is spawned in the northern part of the map and just wanders around. Try to get him really fast before the enemies can cluster in their waves at you. Maybe send a skelly after him.

4. On 1.31, Quel'Delar still has the bug which makes its abilities disappear at one point, maybe from lagspikes.

Totally agree with you regarding the non-bugs/suggestions.. but:

In Chapter Seven, I think there should have been only one Undead Scourge base with Prince Valanar as their main hero, then have Prince Taldaram in Chapter Ten and then Prince Keleseth in Chapter Eleven. In the end, in Chapter Twelve, you have to fight all 3 of them. Also, Anub'arak deserves a spot in the last chapter. However, considering the campaign is based on WotLK, afaik, he wasn't part of the Icecrown Citadel. He was killed in the Trial of the Crusader, so it kinda makes sense for him to die in Chapter Eight.

All in all, fair observation !




Hi ! Which Patch Version are you using ? The murloc quest works fine on 1.31.

The murloc quest doesn't work in patch 1.31.1. I know cause when I played the map originally and possessed the murloc, and completed the quest, getting all the murlocs. But I soon got overrun by the crusade(they came with a hero with a bunch of knights in both directions) so I had to load. My save file was before I possessed the murloc, but this time it didn't work, I just got the big murloc, and nothing else happened.
Also I don't agree with many stuff you said:

• In chapter ten there are already Kel'thuzard/Ymiron/Angeboda. That's more than enough enemy heroes, plus the val'kyr. I don't think there should be the san'layn in this map cause there are more than enough san'layn in the campaign already, and Kel'thuzard is far more important/cooler than some san'layn prince, so he should definitely stay. I know that the prince appears with the vrykul in wow but he is just a messenger, he doesn't actually lead them in battle. He could be a miniboss in chapter 9 fountain quest or something.
• In chapter 11 we have Arthas who spawns with a small army and unless you have a large army you won't be able to defeat him. When I played he attacked the alliance which had both heroes a bunch of knights, archers, bears and gryphons, and he was slaughtering them mercilessly. I sent Sylvanas and Vereesa but they weren't enough even though i used all of their abilities, ultimates and banshee queen. He almost killed both heroes so I had to escape, and Arthas destroyed the Alliance. Then a large wave of san'layn attacked me, when i defeated them I went to destroy the third enemy base at the top right corner(I have already destroyed the two southern bases), while Arthas was headed to the Horde base. The Horde also had a full army, both heroes, bunch of tauren, blood knight, golems, sorceresses, shamans and stuff. While I was destroying the scourge base Arthas destroyed the Horde. So he attacked me. Luckily I still had a bunch of units, dreadguards, archers, abominations, val'kyr, and both heroes, and I managed to kill him with a lot of losses. But the same second Kel'thuzrd came with a bunch of val'kyr, frost wyrms, abominations, necromancers and stuff and I was overrun. What I meant to say is that your allies are enable to defeat Arthas and Kel'thuzard attacks frequently with a large army so another enemy hero would make the map impossible.
• I know that Anub'arak doesn't apprear in the raid. But neither does Kel'thuzard(killed in Nexammas), twin val'kyr(killed in trial of crusaders), Alexstrasza, of all the playable heroes only Varian appears at the entrence. The "main hero" of the raid is Tyrion Fordring. Also a whole section of the raid where you fight the apothecary and twin monstrosities is left out. So I don't see the reason why Anub'arak shouldn't appear.
• Ghouls need to stay cause they are much faster than the workers and harvest a lot faster than the workers. It's much better to have 4-5 ghouls than 10+ workers. Plus they have also been nerfed with the upgrade. Sam thing for the abomination. Lorewise forsaken use both ghouls and abominations in WoW, the forsaken are still undead and it's not really undead without the ghouls and abominations. Abominations are also important part of forsaken scenery. Abominations were also changed a lot which is really cool with the devour.
• Black arrows with the archers are very useful in some situations(though I use poison arrows 90% of time), like in chapter 2 when Sylvanas isn't playable or in chapter 10 when Sylvanas has to defend the blood elves almost always.
• Apothecaries are useful mostly for their cleancing toxins. It's the only way the forsaken can dispell curse, slow, cripple and other annoying stuff.

 

[SLICED]

I'm playing on patch 1.31.1.something. Found another bug:

• After using save/load in Chapter Eleven the buildings get strangely oriented also happend in chapter 6 but I thought it wasn't important enough if it happens in just one chapter.

The murloc quest doesn't work in patch 1.31.1. I know cause when I played the map originally and possessed the murloc, and completed the quest, getting all the murlocs. But I soon got overrun by the crusade(they came with a hero with a bunch of knights in both directions) so I had to load. My save file was before I possessed the murloc, but this time it didn't work, I just got the big murloc, and nothing else happened.
Also I don't agree with many stuff you said:

• In chapter ten there are already Kel'thuzard/Ymiron/Angeboda. That's more than enough enemy heroes, plus the val'kyr. I don't think there should be the san'layn in this map cause there are more than enough san'layn in the campaign already, and Kel'thuzard is far more important/cooler than some san'layn prince, so he should definitely stay. I know that the prince appears with the vrykul in wow but he is just a messenger, he doesn't actually lead them in battle. He could be a miniboss in chapter 9 fountain quest or something.
• In chapter 11 we have Arthas who spawns with a small army and unless you have a large army you won't be able to defeat him. When I played he attacked the alliance which had both heroes a bunch of knights, archers, bears and gryphons, and he was slaughtering them mercilessly. I sent Sylvanas and Vereesa but they weren't enough even though i used all of their abilities, ultimates and banshee queen. He almost killed both heroes so I had to escape, and Arthas destroyed the Alliance. Then a large wave of san'layn attacked me, when i defeated them I went to destroy the third enemy base at the top right corner(I have already destroyed the two southern bases), while Arthas was headed to the Horde base. The Horde also had a full army, both heroes, bunch of tauren, blood knight, golems, sorceresses, shamans and stuff. While I was destroying the scourge base Arthas destroyed the Horde. So he attacked me. Luckily I still had a bunch of units, dreadguards, archers, abominations, val'kyr, and both heroes, and I managed to kill him with a lot of losses. But the same second Kel'thuzrd came with a bunch of val'kyr, frost wyrms, abominations, necromancers and stuff and I was overrun. What I meant to say is that your allies are enable to defeat Arthas and Kel'thuzard attacks frequently with a large army so another enemy hero would make the map impossible.
• I know that Anub'arak doesn't apprear in the raid. But neither does Kel'thuzard(killed in Nexammas), twin val'kyr(killed in trial of crusaders), Alexstrasza, of all the playable heroes only Varian appears at the entrence. The "main hero" of the raid is Tyrion Fordring. Also a whole section of the raid where you fight the apothecary and twin monstrosities is left out. So I don't see the reason why Anub'arak shouldn't appear.
• Ghouls need to stay cause they are much faster than the workers and harvest a lot faster than the workers. It's much better to have 4-5 ghouls than 10+ workers. Plus they have also been nerfed with the upgrade. Sam thing for the abomination. Lorewise forsaken use both ghouls and abominations in WoW, the forsaken are still undead and it's not really undead without the ghouls and abominations. Abominations are also important part of forsaken scenery. Abominations were also changed a lot which is really cool with the devour.
• Black arrows with the archers are very useful in some situations(though I use poison arrows 90% of time), like in chapter 2 when Sylvanas isn't playable or in chapter 10 when Sylvanas has to defend the blood elves almost always.
• Apothecaries are useful mostly for their cleancing toxins. It's the only way the forsaken can dispell curse, slow, cripple and other annoying stuff.

Yeah, the buildings are indeed strangely oriented in Chapter 11, maybe they're supposed to be like that as a cinematic/camera trick ? Idk.

About the murloc quest, when I played through that chapter I didn't load the map, I just did it in one go. Maybe I would have experienced the bug too if I had loaded the map a couple times before possessing Mrgglrr II.

Regarding the blood princes, I meant that they would appear gradually in the progression of the story through the chapters and would replace the enemy heroes which were already in those maps. So, only Valanar in Chapter Seven for only one Undead Scourge base, maybe along with King Ymiron as the Vrykul leader, Taldaram in Chapter Ten replacing Kel'Thuzad and Keleseth in Chapter Eleven still replacing Kel'Thuzad. But yeah, fair point. It would indeed be too much about the San'layn and we would only get to see Kel'Thuzad only in Chapter Twelve but he is more important and cooler than those blood princes.

Sorry, I actually didn't notice that Kel'Thuzad wasn't part of the ICC raid in WotLK, so that means the story for the last chapter is actually quite different from the main one in WoW. I guess the author didn't put Anub'arak in the last chapter as it would get repetitive.. fighting him again.

Regarding the Ghouls and Aboms, I guess we just see things differently.

Black Arrows are indeed useful in some situations.. in only very few. In Chapter Two, you can have Varimathras or Putress or both buy an Orb of Darkness from the shop. In Chapter 10, with an Orb of Darkness on Putress and Sylvanas' Black Arrow, plus their abilities, I think you should have enough defense on the BE base.

Yeah, I said that Apothecaries' Cleansing Toxin is really good and that it should stay as one of their abilities.