Curse of the Forsaken v3.0.1

[RanCatu1020]

Are the cinematics, not included anymore?

 

[levantinh]

Mission 6 is so hard, I can't beat it without cheat

Update: 7 is hard too, It seem that from now on I will have to greedisgood every missions, didn't expected it is this hard, much harder than Rise of the Blood Elves. But it's my fault when I choose Hard then

 

[FEDYA]

-1 for anime art, 'dark victorian' aesthetics that became a thing only in WotLK/Cataclysm, for using dark rangers as regular units, and just for being sylvanas' fanboys haha. Another -1 for being overrated.
Btw, is this even legal to use WOW voices and stuff?

 

[Linking Deer]

when the new version of Rise of Blood Elves 3.1 comes out?

Because is need updating many things

 

[Kyrbi0]

-1 for anime art, 'dark victorian' aesthetics that became a thing only in WotLK/Cataclysm, for using dark rangers as regular units, and just for being sylvanas' fanboys haha. Another -1 for being overrated.
Btw, is this even legal to use WOW voices and stuff?

Lol.

#1: Yeah sure it only showed up in WoW... largely because they literally didn't have an aesthetic before WoW. Just a ragtag rebellion that still used all the Scourge structures and what-not.
Also 'dark Victorian' is a kickin' aesthetic so I don't get the complaint. ; )

#2: Ok, I agree with you here if he simply called them "Dark Rangers"... But that's just a matter of names, easily fixed. I think it's hecka reasonable to include a unit-version of the Dark Ranger (basically an analog to the Night Elf "Archer" unit) in a Forsaken race. Personally, I planned on including a sort of souped-up, T3 Longbowman or "super-Archer" in mine. Just makes sense.

 

[levantinh]

Just finished the campaign. Mission 6, 7 and 11 is probaly the hardest for me, can't win without cheat
And I have a question, at Fall of the Lich King. Why Tirion is not here. He is the one put the helmet on Bolvar, not Varian tho.

 

[Pembunuh Bayaran]

Mission 6 is so hard, I can't beat it without cheat

Update: 7 is hard too, It seem that from now on I will have to greedisgood every missions, didn't expected it is this hard, much harder than Rise of the Blood Elves. But it's my fault when I choose Hard then

Well ini chapter 6 is easy (i play this one normal),first don't kill the Doom guard general and retreat if the general Doom guard is still following you then use feral spirit to attrakc his attention,and go to Maleficent base and kill it,then the base ia yours don't worry enemy ai Will not attack you,but of you kill the doom guard general,enemy ai Will attack you,so kill all general (Doom guard general last)my way ia very easy because enemy ai don't active AND SORRY IF MY ENGLISH BAD,I COME FROM INDONESIAN

 

[Pembunuh Bayaran]

And on chapter 7,first i don't build Forsaken bases so use the 3 heroes to wipet out vrykul base then Capture his gold mine,build armies of the blood elves (don't build forsaken bases) use your blood elves army and 3 heroes to wipe out orange base,and don't Capture orange base gold mine if you Capture it purple ai Will attack you,then use blood elves army and 3 Heroes to wipe out purple base(don't build Forsaken base in this chapter)

 

[Pembunuh Bayaran]

Once again sorry f my English bad,i come from Indonesian

 

[tomoraider]

Are the cinematics, not included anymore?

Nope. They didn't work anymore as of patch 1.30.

-1 for anime art, 'dark victorian' aesthetics that became a thing only in WotLK/Cataclysm, for using dark rangers as regular units, and just for being sylvanas' fanboys haha. Another -1 for being overrated.
Btw, is this even legal to use WOW voices and stuff?

Eh, what? Overrated? Anime art? IMO these seem like odd unimportant reasons to give a lower score for. Also as @Kirby0 said, the dark aesthetic is awesome and works perfectly with the Forsaken. And why not use the dark rangers as a unit? There's a ton of dark rangers running around in WoW.

when the new version of Rise of Blood Elves 3.1 comes out?

Because is need updating many things

Probably gonna be a while. Haven't even looked at it yet, honestly.

Just finished the campaign. Mission 6, 7 and 11 is probaly the hardest for me, can't win without cheat
And I have a question, at Fall of the Lich King. Why Tirion is not here. He is the one put the helmet on Bolvar, not Varian tho.

Yeah, I made it pretty hard on hard! Maybe a little too much, but eh, I kinda wanted hard to actually feel really challenging. Tirion is not there because I felt it would defeat the point of the campaign. I do think he's an awesome character, but it always bothered me that Blizzard did not include Sylvanas and Jaina in the final fight against the Lich King. So I wanted to do that. Unfortunately, if I included Tirion, he would take away the spotlight, which just wouldn't work with what I wanted to do. Plus it would mean I'd have to include the entire story of the Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade and how all that happened... which I also didn't want to do because it's a campaign about the Forsaken.

 

[Atshiel]

Just finished the campaign. Mission 6, 7 and 11 is probaly the hardest for me, can't win without cheat

I didn't have problems with Chapter 6 but Chapter 11 I felt it was almost impossible to get to Putress before Varian D:

Edit: Btw Tomo, you did awesome with those new loading screens, they really give a better aspect!

 

[tomoraider]

Well ini chapter 6 is easy (i play this one normal),first don't kill the Doom guard general and retreat if the general Doom guard is still following you then use feral spirit to attrakc his attention,and go to Maleficent base and kill it,then the base ia yours don't worry enemy ai Will not attack you,but of you kill the doom guard general,enemy ai Will attack you,so kill all general (Doom guard general last)my way ia very easy because enemy ai don't active AND SORRY IF MY ENGLISH BAD,I COME FROM INDONESIAN

Oooh you actually pointed out a bug in Chapter Six! I'll need to change how the AI activates in that map, thanks!

I didn't have problems with Chapter 6 but Chapter 11 I felt it was almost impossible to get to Putress before Varian D:

Edit: Btw Tomo, you did awesome with those new loading screens, they really give a better aspect!

Glad you liked them! I thought using maps from WoW would work out pretty well and I think it did.

 

[GuardianGI]

Now that reminds me, there's some techtrees + tooltips missing (or in questionable places) here and there, like the...:
> Destroyer + Freezing Breath upgrade missing entirely
> Missing tooltip for the Dragon Roost (and probably the Pig Farm too, can't remember)
> Identical tooltips for the normal Frostwryms and the Frostbrood Vanquishers since they both use the default tooltip for the Frostwyrm.
> Skeletal Mastery and the Skeletal Longevity upgrades still in the scourge Boneyard despite being originally in the Temple by default
> Arcane Affinity upgrade being missing for the Darkfallen (or they are just not supposed to have it?)
> Missing Scourge Boneyard tech in Chapter 7 after possessing an Acolyte with a Forsaken Banshee while doing it with a blood-elven Banshee actually gets you that (and the exclusive early access to the Val'kyrs)

Also, there's some character dialogues played during missions that went missing, leading to the texts showing up REALLY quickly.
I can't remember about other bugs (if any), but I'll post em in this thread if I remember.

All in all, I'm a diehard fan of your work at this point, so please keep it up

 

[Linking Deer]

It would be good if you did, because the campaign came out good but if you update some things, it would be better, greetings and I liked your updated Forsaken campaign

 

[FEDYA]

Eh, what? Overrated? Anime art? IMO these seem like odd unimportant reasons to give a lower score for. Also as @Kirby0 said, the dark aesthetic is awesome and works perfectly with the Forsaken. And why not use the dark rangers as a unit? There's a ton of dark rangers running around in WoW.

Yep, some arts are 'realistic anime', and the Dark Ranger icon in-game is 200% pure anime, looks out of place.
'Victorian' aesthetics are against the lore. Early years forsaken were living in ruined human/scourge buildings and didn't have their own architecture. Then in WotLK we saw further development of 'apothecary' theme, and new forsaken colonies on Northrend such as New Agamand, looking like they were ripped straight from some frankenstein movie. This campaign could follow the same route, making high-tier buildings and units in 'victorian gothic' style, while keeping low tier presented in first missions more 'medieval'. Like original warcraft 3 races have different themes in them - alien nerubians with their weird ziggurats vs 'normal' meaty undead - or orc, troll and tauren cultures...
Same with dark rangers - they were rare until 'the new generation' was trained during WotLK/Cataclysm.

It's all fine, just not perfect, in my opinion.
Yes obviously these are my minor gripes on campaign visuals, in all other aspects it's great, fun and very good quality.
Not pretending to be objective with my 3 stars, I just couldn't resist when I saw almost perfect rating haha.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm with you on the anime art/icons & the usage of the term "Dark Ranger" for a unit, but this:

'Victorian' aesthetics are against the lore. Early years forsaken were living in ruined human/scourge buildings and didn't have their own architecture. Then in WotLK we saw further development of 'apothecary' theme, and new forsaken colonies on Northrend such as New Agamand, looking like they were ripped straight from some frankenstein movie.

Styles Evolve. Like, I don't know what "early years" you refer to (late Wc3? early WoW?) but yeah, they first lived in ruined stuff because (you point out yourself!!!) they didn't have any architecture of their own yet.
So then they did develop architecture and went with a gothic/victorian aesthetic (which is, need I reiterate, SICK)... So Things Change. I don't get the complaint (unless you simply don't like that particular aesthetic), since it's perfectly within the established Lore (even when it doesn't need to be).


But most importantly, this:

Not pretending to be objective with my 3 stars, I just couldn't resist when I saw almost perfect rating haha.

That... That is a terrible reason to rate something lower. That's shameful.

 

[FEDYA]

Styles Evolve. Like, I don't know what "early years" you refer to (late Wc3? early WoW?) but yeah, they first lived in ruined stuff because (you point out yourself!!!) they didn't have any architecture of their own yet.
So then they did develop architecture and went with a gothic/victorian aesthetic (which is, need I reiterate, SICK)... So Things Change. I don't get the complaint (unless you simply don't like that particular aesthetic), since it's perfectly within the established Lore (even when it doesn't need to be).

Early years of WOW, yeah. The campaign is about the events of WOW from vanilla to WotLK, if I understood it right. So it should match. It would be perfect if it actually has shown forsaken architecture development, gradually, from ruined medieval style to victorian gothic. Like blizzard campaigns introduce new units and buildings connecting them with the story. I mean, maybe it's not the biggest lore-breaking thing, but certainly is a missed opportunity to make something really cool.

 

[tomoraider]

Now that reminds me, there's some techtrees + tooltips missing (or in questionable places) here and there, like the...:
> Destroyer + Freezing Breath upgrade missing entirely
> Missing tooltip for the Dragon Roost (and probably the Pig Farm too, can't remember)
> Identical tooltips for the normal Frostwryms and the Frostbrood Vanquishers since they both use the default tooltip for the Frostwyrm.
> Skeletal Mastery and the Skeletal Longevity upgrades still in the scourge Boneyard despite being originally in the Temple by default
> Arcane Affinity upgrade being missing for the Darkfallen (or they are just not supposed to have it?)
> Missing Scourge Boneyard tech in Chapter 7 after possessing an Acolyte with a Forsaken Banshee while doing it with a blood-elven Banshee actually gets you that (and the exclusive early access to the Val'kyrs)

Also, there's some character dialogues played during missions that went missing, leading to the texts showing up REALLY quickly.
I can't remember about other bugs (if any), but I'll post em in this thread if I remember.

All in all, I'm a diehard fan of your work at this point, so please keep it up

Thanks for pointing all this out, I didn't test if all the other stuff show up correctly when you use Possession, I'll fix it.

Yep, some arts are 'realistic anime', and the Dark Ranger icon in-game is 200% pure anime, looks out of place.
'Victorian' aesthetics are against the lore. Early years forsaken were living in ruined human/scourge buildings and didn't have their own architecture. Then in WotLK we saw further development of 'apothecary' theme, and new forsaken colonies on Northrend such as New Agamand, looking like they were ripped straight from some frankenstein movie. This campaign could follow the same route, making high-tier buildings and units in 'victorian gothic' style, while keeping low tier presented in first missions more 'medieval'. Like original warcraft 3 races have different themes in them - alien nerubians with their weird ziggurats vs 'normal' meaty undead - or orc, troll and tauren cultures...
Same with dark rangers - they were rare until 'the new generation' was trained during WotLK/Cataclysm.

Early years of WOW, yeah. The campaign is about the events of WOW from vanilla to WotLK, if I understood it right. So it should match. It would be perfect if it actually has shown forsaken architecture development, gradually, from ruined medieval style to victorian gothic. Like blizzard campaigns introduce new units and buildings connecting them with the story. I mean, maybe it's not the biggest lore-breaking thing, but certainly is a missed opportunity to make something really cool.

Personally I never found the dark ranger icon out of place. I do agree with you it would be cool to create some kind of progression with their buildings, like I did with Sylvanas' model, but the thing is, I don't think there even are any models that are just "ruined" human buildings (as far as I know). Honestly, I don't even think the models I used for their buildings have the same feel like the buildings from WoW, they're mostly just human buildings with undead textures, with some additions. They do a decent job of fulfilling the feel of the human/undead combo race which is what I wanted to do with the Forsaken in this campaign, at least when it comes to the buildings.

As for "it should match", that's something I never fully strive for, as Warcraft 3 is just different from WoW. I do a number of stuff differently than how it should be just to make it more fun and interesting, e.g. Sylvanas uses her Legion-looking model after the first third of the campaign, the val'kyr join the Forsaken (sorta) earlier than in WoW, and so on. So when it comes to the buildings, like you said, it's a minor thing, and personally not something I would consider too important. If any models of such buildings do come across at some point, I'd be glad to add them into the campaign.

It's all fine, just not perfect, in my opinion.
Yes obviously these are my minor gripes on campaign visuals, in all other aspects it's great, fun and very good quality.
Not pretending to be objective with my 3 stars, I just couldn't resist when I saw almost perfect rating haha.

I'm glad you explained your gripes with the campaign, I enjoy discussing other people's opinions of my campaigns, and I'm not usually the one to care much about ratings, but it kind of feels... disheartening, I guess, to get a low rating just because?

 

[Gouuh]

Sorry but I have a problem with custom campaigns because my game is in version 1.21 b so the updates of the recent campaigns and well the game blocks and I can not do them, so I try to update except when tell me to restart the game for the update to be done, it says "warcraft III is already open" so I'm stuck

 

[Regeneration]

I'm back after a long break. I'm excited for a new challenge.

 

[tomoraider]

Sorry but I have a problem with custom campaigns because my game is in version 1.21 b so the updates of the recent campaigns and well the game blocks and I can not do them, so I try to update except when tell me to restart the game for the update to be done, it says "warcraft III is already open" so I'm stuck

The campaign requires you to update your Warcraft III. I made it on patch 1.30.2, I can't say if it will work properly on anything below that, but I know it definitely will not work on anything below 1.29.

 

[Gouuh]

Could you help me and tell me how to solve the problem of "Warcraft III is already open" without using warcraft III launcher because I should register them on battle.net the application and if I do it I will not have access to custom campaigns

 

[levantinh]

Could you help me and tell me how to solve the problem of "Warcraft III is already open" without using warcraft III launcher because I should register them on battle.net the application and if I do it I will not have access to custom campaigns

I think you should install a new one instead of updating the old game.
Patching Classic Games

 

[FraughtCoin]

Hey, I played the first chapter and when I try to play the second one the game just freezes. I don't know what to do. Maybe there is a way to skip it somehow so at least I can play the others?

 

[Urim03]

Great campaign, I played the version 2.0 long ago (or maybe first, I don't actually remember) and you managed to make it even better. I'll list few bugs and give a feedback about what could be improved/changed imo, though it's not exhaustive as I missunderstood one of your message (I though you wouldn't update map further), so I didn't note everything (and tbh nothing was actually bothering).
Fast info about me, I played this map in 1.30.2 patch, I didn't play wow so I don't know it's lore, i'll sometimes give little suggestions in following list.

Spoiler: Bugs, or what I consider not intented

-Few typos, I don't remember any of them beside the description of Dark Rangers : "her ghost its the corpse to fight again". For others I don't remember sorry, but they were obvious enough for me to notice them (not native english speaker)

-Each spawn from the crafted item (shadowmourn iirc) in last chapter use 1 food, not really bothering as they disapear but still good to mention I guess.

-For some reasons, when AI is using forsakens, it loves to craft thousands of shadowhall, was most obvious in chapter 3. I charged Varimathras' base as soon as possible, but there was already 3 shadowhall, 4th in construction. AI is probably not considering it as main structure.

-While we are on chapter 3, you can kill Balnazzar or Varimathras if your army is big enough and make sure everything focus the same dreadlord. (I didn't manage to kill both though no matter how hard I tried.) I don't think it's intented so I'm pointing it out.

-Overall, I think the AI should be a bit improved, it's not terrible but it's a bit weird when some units doesn't move when their base is being attacked next to them.

-If you possess a demon worker, some units really feel too powerful. I don't really ask for accurate balance, but you can spawn a lvl 9 eredar for 85 gold and 1 food, infernal juggernaut cost only 4 food but they can summon infernals, etc... those 2 were the most shocking. I kind of find that the easiest strategy is to possess a worker and spamm one of those 2 units. I think that this possibility should mostly be something fun to do but not worth, rather than best strategy.

-A bit weird bug, but this version of CotF interacts with older versions. Low chance to actually bother someone, but I think it should be clearly separated. In my case, after I finished the 3.0.1 version, I did same with older version (using cheats) to see what changed in story, but when I tried to do chapter 11 in 3.0.1 version once again, heroes were having items and skills learnt from the previous version. Which leaded Varian to get invisible pot (which he was using fairly fast to run straight to putress), and Vereesa to get no spells (as all of her spells changed, but game was considering she alread learnt 10 spells so nothing available to learn).

-There is some missing voice on clicking on some units. I don't know how to explain clearly, so let's take an example with Vereesa. Basically the first 5 times you clic on her she says something, then the following 4 times she opens mouth half a sec to say nothing, it feels a bit weird. I didn't list all units having this issue though.

-In chapter 7, it is way easier to not split both group and never attack the small undead base (where sylvanas is supposed to make a base). The strongest undead base never attacks as long as this ain't destroyed, and even like that there is no real reason to split both forces. I would suggest that the small purple base becomes another foe in the map that will grow in size and strenght with time, so it becomes interesting to actually destroy that base as soon as possible. Also the big purple base should probably attack Sylvanas after 5-8min, no matter if there is base destructed or not.

-It is not a bug due to your campaign but to Wacraft 3 itself, but there is a bug with attack speed making agility and attack speed items worthless. Can you consider a way to counter that in both campaigns ? I know it's possible but tbh I don't know how, maybe make map generate a code and load the hero on next version automatically ? I can't help much unfortunately to find a way to correct that sorry

Spoiler: Balance (mostly)

-I really like the fact that Dark Rangers (and all low units beside ghouls)are viable the whole campain, nevertheless I find them a bit too powerful. Strong enough that "spamm DR units" works in basically every chapters. For example, I could clean every ennemy building/units with only two full army of DR in chapter 11 (medium difficulty). As long as they are not sandwiched, nothing can stop them with Sylvanas' silence. My suggestions :
Link spiders to their DR, limit range on how much they can split, if the DR dies, the spider disapear, make the research spider on higher tier (too strong early I think), make ghost of DR last only 30 seconds to 2 minutes and reduce bonus range of both research to 50 each.
Not a huge nerf, but I think it would make DR less abusable.

-I like Dreadguardes but I find them slightly too weak (though, I saw you nerfed them lately so maybe I'm wrong ?), also I dislike that with all upgrades it has mana but no castable ability. Lose life drain for lifesteal isn't bad idea(even if not worth imo in this situation), but I find it too basic. I don't have real suggestions here to improve that, but I think there is probably some good ideas to come up with.
Atm I think that life drain is simply too valuable on units like dreadguards to swap for lifesteal (ground melee unit), only downside is their low mana regeneration. You can spamm it against one target (like a hero or air unit) and make it disapear, they have different utility unlike with lifesteal where they are just "forgotten tank units you can just attack move with" unable to deal with ranged units, air or heroes.

-I find abominations too weak, probably because they become available when air units start being available. Give them an ability that prevents them to not be inexistant against air would probably solve that. Atm they are extremely powerful against ground units and eat them all. Their strenght is only dependant on which unit they can eat... I think this situation could be improved.
Though I would prefer remove/rework ghouls and abominations, brainless meat undead doesn't seem to fit Forsakens that much in my opinion.

-I do not like Vengeance from Banshees, I find curse stronger and more useful. Especially considering how hard it is to reduce armor of good targets if you don't spamm banshees or if you don't control small army. Only utility is to avoid using mana for AMS and possession as far as I see it.

-I think it would be nice if units were using QWER hotkeys as well. Same as for building, something like QWER,ASDF,ZXC would be nice I think. (And when will blizzard allow custom hotkeys for items also T.T)

-I would like to have the tome allowing to relearn spells available whenever a new hero is available, not huge difference but I like have free will on which spell to max.

Spoiler: Story

About storyline, even if it's by far what I enjoyed the most, I kind of feel janna's reactions are a bit too... unkind ? I don't know if she is actually like that in WoW, but see Jaina be that hostile is weird to me. Is it due to Dreadlord Jaina ? By the way what is that ? I was quite disturbed doing campaign with that Dreadlord Jaina, is it something only people knowing WoW's lore can understand ? I was very confused until the end, trying to understand meaning of this or if it had a use. (I'm not necessarily against, but I would like more informations about it, especially in game).

About same for Sylvanas, sometimes I feel she is too "human", and sometimes too "undead". I was mostly disturbed in early chapters by few sentences if I remember correctly. If you are interested I can fast do campaign again to tell you what specifically bothered me. (Nothing really big, just a weird feeling).

About videos, is there a way to see them ? (the ones you removed because 1.30) I would like to see them.

Overall a great campaign, I do not hesitate to give a solid 5/5, I really enjoyed play it again and each changes you did in campaign from first version made sense. The difficulty increase was pretty nice to me, much better than in the past (where I remember struggling more in early levels than later ones), nothing extrêmely broken or weak, great story, no game breaking bugs or anything, I loved the banshee form idea for Sylvanas etc... I know my comment mostly seem negatif, but I kind of feel that bring out what could be improved is more worth than what is already good. I hope you don't mind such a long chaotic text, thx for your campaign.

I'm leading on the other campaign and give a feedback for that campaign too.

 

[levantinh]

Spoiler: Story

About storyline, even if it's by far what I enjoyed the most, I kind of feel janna's reactions are a bit too... unkind ? I don't know if she is actually like that in WoW, but see Jaina be that hostile is weird to me. Is it due to Dreadlord Jaina ? By the way what is that ? I was quite disturbed doing campaign with that Dreadlord Jaina, is it something only people knowing WoW's lore can understand ? I was very confused until the end, trying to understand meaning of this or if it had a use. (I'm not necessarily against, but I would like more informations about it, especially in game).

About same for Sylvanas, sometimes I feel she is too "human", and sometimes too "undead". I was mostly disturbed in early chapters by few sentences if I remember correctly. If you are interested I can fast do campaign again to tell you what specifically bothered me. (Nothing really big, just a weird feeling).

About videos, is there a way to see them ? (the ones you removed because 1.30) I would like to see them.

Dreadlord Jaina is a joke/meme by WOW players about how her personality changes.
And then Blizzard releases a dreadlord skin for Jaina in Heroes of the Storm. As if they confirmed Jaina is a dreadlord lol

And here is the old cinematics: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/cotfcinematics-rar.300001/
Just rename them to .avi and watch without WC3.

 

[tomoraider]

Hey, I played the first chapter and when I try to play the second one the game just freezes. I don't know what to do. Maybe there is a way to skip it somehow so at least I can play the others?

You gotta update/reinstall your Warcraft 3.

Great campaign, I played the version 2.0 long ago (or maybe first, I don't actually remember) and you managed to make it even better. I'll list few bugs and give a feedback about what could be improved/changed imo, though it's not exhaustive as I missunderstood one of your message (I though you wouldn't update map further), so I didn't note everything (and tbh nothing was actually bothering).
Fast info about me, I played this map in 1.30.2 patch, I didn't play wow so I don't know it's lore, i'll sometimes give little suggestions in following list.

Spoiler: Bugs, or what I consider not intented

-Few typos, I don't remember any of them beside the description of Dark Rangers : "her ghost its the corpse to fight again". For others I don't remember sorry, but they were obvious enough for me to notice them (not native english speaker)

-Each spawn from the crafted item (shadowmourn iirc) in last chapter use 1 food, not really bothering as they disapear but still good to mention I guess.

-For some reasons, when AI is using forsakens, it loves to craft thousands of shadowhall, was most obvious in chapter 3. I charged Varimathras' base as soon as possible, but there was already 3 shadowhall, 4th in construction. AI is probably not considering it as main structure.

-While we are on chapter 3, you can kill Balnazzar or Varimathras if your army is big enough and make sure everything focus the same dreadlord. (I didn't manage to kill both though no matter how hard I tried.) I don't think it's intented so I'm pointing it out.

-Overall, I think the AI should be a bit improved, it's not terrible but it's a bit weird when some units doesn't move when their base is being attacked next to them.

-If you possess a demon worker, some units really feel too powerful. I don't really ask for accurate balance, but you can spawn a lvl 9 eredar for 85 gold and 1 food, infernal juggernaut cost only 4 food but they can summon infernals, etc... those 2 were the most shocking. I kind of find that the easiest strategy is to possess a worker and spamm one of those 2 units. I think that this possibility should mostly be something fun to do but not worth, rather than best strategy.

-A bit weird bug, but this version of CotF interacts with older versions. Low chance to actually bother someone, but I think it should be clearly separated. In my case, after I finished the 3.0.1 version, I did same with older version (using cheats) to see what changed in story, but when I tried to do chapter 11 in 3.0.1 version once again, heroes were having items and skills learnt from the previous version. Which leaded Varian to get invisible pot (which he was using fairly fast to run straight to putress), and Vereesa to get no spells (as all of her spells changed, but game was considering she alread learnt 10 spells so nothing available to learn).

-There is some missing voice on clicking on some units. I don't know how to explain clearly, so let's take an example with Vereesa. Basically the first 5 times you clic on her she says something, then the following 4 times she opens mouth half a sec to say nothing, it feels a bit weird. I didn't list all units having this issue though.

-In chapter 7, it is way easier to not split both group and never attack the small undead base (where sylvanas is supposed to make a base). The strongest undead base never attacks as long as this ain't destroyed, and even like that there is no real reason to split both forces. I would suggest that the small purple base becomes another foe in the map that will grow in size and strenght with time, so it becomes interesting to actually destroy that base as soon as possible. Also the big purple base should probably attack Sylvanas after 5-8min, no matter if there is base destructed or not.

-It is not a bug due to your campaign but to Wacraft 3 itself, but there is a bug with attack speed making agility and attack speed items worthless. Can you consider a way to counter that in both campaigns ? I know it's possible but tbh I don't know how, maybe make map generate a code and load the hero on next version automatically ? I can't help much unfortunately to find a way to correct that sorry

Spoiler: Balance (mostly)

-I really like the fact that Dark Rangers (and all low units beside ghouls)are viable the whole campain, nevertheless I find them a bit too powerful. Strong enough that "spamm DR units" works in basically every chapters. For example, I could clean every ennemy building/units with only two full army of DR in chapter 11 (medium difficulty). As long as they are not sandwiched, nothing can stop them with Sylvanas' silence. My suggestions :
Link spiders to their DR, limit range on how much they can split, if the DR dies, the spider disapear, make the research spider on higher tier (too strong early I think), make ghost of DR last only 30 seconds to 2 minutes and reduce bonus range of both research to 50 each.
Not a huge nerf, but I think it would make DR less abusable.

-I like Dreadguardes but I find them slightly too weak (though, I saw you nerfed them lately so maybe I'm wrong ?), also I dislike that with all upgrades it has mana but no castable ability. Lose life drain for lifesteal isn't bad idea(even if not worth imo in this situation), but I find it too basic. I don't have real suggestions here to improve that, but I think there is probably some good ideas to come up with.
Atm I think that life drain is simply too valuable on units like dreadguards to swap for lifesteal (ground melee unit), only downside is their low mana regeneration. You can spamm it against one target (like a hero or air unit) and make it disapear, they have different utility unlike with lifesteal where they are just "forgotten tank units you can just attack move with" unable to deal with ranged units, air or heroes.

-I find abominations too weak, probably because they become available when air units start being available. Give them an ability that prevents them to not be inexistant against air would probably solve that. Atm they are extremely powerful against ground units and eat them all. Their strenght is only dependant on which unit they can eat... I think this situation could be improved.
Though I would prefer remove/rework ghouls and abominations, brainless meat undead doesn't seem to fit Forsakens that much in my opinion.

-I do not like Vengeance from Banshees, I find curse stronger and more useful. Especially considering how hard it is to reduce armor of good targets if you don't spamm banshees or if you don't control small army. Only utility is to avoid using mana for AMS and possession as far as I see it.

-I think it would be nice if units were using QWER hotkeys as well. Same as for building, something like QWER,ASDF,ZXC would be nice I think. (And when will blizzard allow custom hotkeys for items also T.T)

-I would like to have the tome allowing to relearn spells available whenever a new hero is available, not huge difference but I like have free will on which spell to max.

Spoiler: Story

About storyline, even if it's by far what I enjoyed the most, I kind of feel janna's reactions are a bit too... unkind ? I don't know if she is actually like that in WoW, but see Jaina be that hostile is weird to me. Is it due to Dreadlord Jaina ? By the way what is that ? I was quite disturbed doing campaign with that Dreadlord Jaina, is it something only people knowing WoW's lore can understand ? I was very confused until the end, trying to understand meaning of this or if it had a use. (I'm not necessarily against, but I would like more informations about it, especially in game).

About same for Sylvanas, sometimes I feel she is too "human", and sometimes too "undead". I was mostly disturbed in early chapters by few sentences if I remember correctly. If you are interested I can fast do campaign again to tell you what specifically bothered me. (Nothing really big, just a weird feeling).

About videos, is there a way to see them ? (the ones you removed because 1.30) I would like to see them.

Overall a great campaign, I do not hesitate to give a solid 5/5, I really enjoyed play it again and each changes you did in campaign from first version made sense. The difficulty increase was pretty nice to me, much better than in the past (where I remember struggling more in early levels than later ones), nothing extrêmely broken or weak, great story, no game breaking bugs or anything, I loved the banshee form idea for Sylvanas etc... I know my comment mostly seem negatif, but I kind of feel that bring out what could be improved is more worth than what is already good. I hope you don't mind such a long chaotic text, thx for your campaign.

I'm leading on the other campaign and give a feedback for that campaign too.

Hey, glad you liked it! Don't worry, I appreciate posts like yours very much! All the issues you posted are actually pretty small stuff, easily fixed, and some things I just overlooked, so it's very helpful that you put it all together like that.

As for the balance, overall I doubt I'll be making any more big changes to the techtree. I'm pretty happy with how all units work, there might just be some balance changes or minor changes like adding a new upgrade here and there. I think they're all fine, Dark Rangers' ghost could be changed a bit to be more interesting, people said Dreadguards were really OP before but I think they're fine now, and I'm also happy with Abominations, Ghouls and Banshees. Siphon Life and Vengeance are a bit weird, but generally my idea with these was to make it so if you want you don't really have to control these units.

Maybe I should add QWER for the rest of abilities, I guess I kind of didn't since I saw Starcraft 2 doesn't have it for normal units, so I just kind of forgot about it? I'll think about it.

I do actually kind of agree with your thoughts about Jaina and Sylvanas, but that was somewhat intentional. I really like these two characters, but I felt the story might lack a bit if Jaina is just nice all the time and Sylvanas is an asshole all the time, since that's how it is most of the time in WoW, at least back in WotLK, so I gave them a bit more emotions. And yeah, Dreadlord Jaina is a meme, nothing to do with the actual story!

 

[Urim03]

Thx both for your answer, makes more sense now for Jaina and Sylvanas. Those 2 characters, Furion and Thrall are the ones I liked the most in warcraft 3 so I'm a bit more sensitive about their personality.
Will you do an update for when reforged version will be out ? I'm not sure but I guess it'll act weirdly toward custom models.

Also, even if it's more about wow and not your campaign, I'm a bit curious and I wonder, how far/close is your story compared to original wow story ?

 

[nuck001]

I'm a bit curious and I wonder, how far/close is your story compared to original wow story ?

Good question.The storyline written by tomoraider is different from that of the origin WOW in many ways.I've listed several significant changes below.

a) Motive
WOW-The only purpose of Sylvanas is revenge.Those who serve her are arrows in her quiver.Joining the Horde is merely a strategy to protect herself from the Alliance.
CotF-The purpose is changed.She cares for the family and her people in the end.

b) Wrath Gate
WOW-Putress and Varimathras worked together and betrayed Sylvanas at UnderCity.Having fled to Orgrimmar,the banshee queen was absent from the Wrath Gate.Thrall and Varian led their troops to liberate Undercity which was occupied by rebels and burning legions.The Horde killed (banished) Varimathras while the Alliance slaughtered Putress.
CotF-The battle of UnderCity happens earlier.

c) Little Moon
WOW-Vereesa and Sylvanas had never met each other until Garrosh Hellscream lost his war,which happened in WOW 5.4,much later than the fall of the Lich King(WOW 3.3).
CotF-Reuniting with each other is more reasonable.

d) Icecrown Citadel
WOW-The Lich King was killed by 10~25 players with the help of Tirion Fordring,who is a famous paladin. Sylvanas wasn't there.
CotF-Many heroes took part in the raid.But Tirion Fordring was missing.

Perhaps many war3 players are not aware of what is happening in Blizzard WOW group.Their capabilities of scriptwriting have been getting worse these years such as creating tons of silly scenarios,breaking tons of character images and turning Sylvanas into an ASSHOLE.

Tomoraider did a great work,much better than the WOW story team.His talent and wisdom are beyond words.

 

[tomoraider]

Thx both for your answer, makes more sense now for Jaina and Sylvanas. Those 2 characters, Furion and Thrall are the ones I liked the most in warcraft 3 so I'm a bit more sensitive about their personality.
Will you do an update for when reforged version will be out ? I'm not sure but I guess it'll act weirdly toward custom models.

Also, even if it's more about wow and not your campaign, I'm a bit curious and I wonder, how far/close is your story compared to original wow story ?

We'll see how things work out once Reforged is out, I can't say anything right now.

So the story in my campaign it doesn't happen in the same order like in WoW and different characters are involved. It's important to mention that a lot of the story in WoW falls upon the player characters, whereas in CotF the actual characters do all the fighting. Some parts are directly taken from WoW, mostly the parts with voice overs which I took from WoW. Vereesa and Lor'themar also do not play a role in WoW at all in this story. I involved Vereesa because I wanted to add an additional story for Sylvanas, and Lor'themar cause I wanted to involve the blood elves, as a continuation of Rise of the Blood Elves, my other campaign.

• The first four maps don't happen in WoW. There is a fight with the Scarlet Crusade in WoW, but it only involves questing in the Forsaken intro zone and a dungeon. Balnazzar does appear, but doesn't get Varimathras back to his side. No characters in WoW are directly involved with this, the player characters deal with this story.
• Chapter Five, the battle in Orgrimmar, happens in WoW, but Jaina doesn't hang out in Orgrimmar, Sylvanas doesn't threaten anyone, and the tauren and night elves don't send reinforcements.
  
• Chapter Six, Battle for the Undercity, happens in WoW, but happens after the Wrathgate. Varian leads an army to Lordaeron as revenge for what Putress did, but I changed this because I found it kind of strange that the focus of the story would change from Northrend to Lordaeron for that part. So the motivation for why the Alliance are there in my campaign might lack, but I think it's alright. I changed it so that they attack because of what Sylvanas said to Jaina in Chapter Five, and then Varian gets angry because of what they find in Putress' laboratories in the Undercity.
  
• Chapter Seven doesn't happen in WoW. I did that as an intro map to Northrend. Sylvanas also doesn't ally with the val'kyr in WoW, not until the Edge of Night short story, which is directly adapted in my epilogue.
• Chapter Eight doesn't happen in WoW like in CotF, the player characters go into Azjol-Nerub, not Thrall, Varian and Bolvar.
• Chapter Nine, the parts with Alexstrasza and Quel'Delar kind of happen in WoW, but again the player characters are involved. The part with the Lich King happens exactly like that, but Vereesa is not involved, and it happens just before the Icecrown Citadel events, the final raid.
  
• Chapter Ten, the Wrathgate happens in WoW, but Putress' does it because of Varimathras in WoW, not because he decided to do it himself, like in my campaign.
• Chapter Eleven does not happen in WoW.
• Chapter Twelve happens in WoW, but it only involves the player characters and Tirion Fordring. Varian and Garrosh make an appearance in the Icecrown Citadel raid, but not during the Lich King fight. I already wrote about this, but I didn't want to involve Tirion Fordring because I wanted the focus of the story to be on Sylvanas.

That's mostly it, I think. Overall the story of the campaign is only based on the story from WoW, mostly the core events that happen in WoW also happen in CotF, the Alliance and the Horde invade Northrend, the Wrathgate happens and they eventually defeat the Lich King, but somewhat differently and different characters are involved, in fact in WoW Sylvanas barely plays a role during this story, which I thought was really lame. She doesn't even appear during the final fight with the Lich King.

Good question.The storyline written by tomoraider is different from that of the origin WOW in many ways.I've listed several significant changes below.

a) Motive
WOW-The only purpose of Sylvanas is revenge.Those who serve her are arrows in her quiver.Joining the Horde is merely a strategy to protect herself from the Alliance.
CotF-The purpose is changed.She cares for the family and her people in the end.

b) Wrath Gate
WOW-Putress and Varimathras worked together and betrayed Sylvanas at UnderCity.Having fled to Orgrimmar,the banshee queen was absent from the Wrath Gate.Thrall and Varian led their troops to liberate Undercity which was occupied by rebels and burning legions.The Horde killed (banished) Varimathras while the Alliance slaughtered Putress.
CotF-The battle of UnderCity happens earlier.

c) Little Moon
WOW-Vereesa and Sylvanas had never met each other until Garrosh Hellscream lost his war,which happened in WOW 5.4,much later than the fall of the Lich King(WOW 3.3).
CotF-Reuniting with each other is more reasonable.

d) Icecrown Citadel
WOW-The Lich King was killed by 10~25 players with the help of Tirion Fordring,who is a famous paladin. Sylvanas wasn't there.
CotF-Many heroes took part in the raid.But Tirion Fordring was missing.

Perhaps many war3 players are not aware of what is happening in Blizzard WOW group.Their capabilities of scriptwriting have been getting worse these years such as creating tons of silly scenarios,breaking tons of character images and turning Sylvanas into an ASSHOLE.

Tomoraider did a great work,much better than the WOW story team.His talent and wisdom are beyond words.

Yeah, that's mostly it. I'd only add that Sylvanas' purpose is not changed, but it alters during the campaign because of her interactions with Vereesa.

As for WoW's story nowadays... I don't really have any big expectations anymore, some stuff are pretty stupid, but I think the story is still pretty fun, so I'm enjoying following it. There's still some pretty good parts here and there, surrounded by all the fluff. And I'm glad you like my work!

 

[Gouuh]

Hi it would be to know you intend to do a third campaign such as draeneis, troll, tauren or other? and also in curse of forsaken, you replaced phaedrynne by Putress. While in rise of the blood elves in a cinematic the blood elf emissary is stopped by phaedrynne and not Putress

 

[Pembunuh Bayaran]

Hi it would be to know you intend to do a third campaign such as draeneis, troll, tauren or other? and also in curse of forsaken, you replaced phaedrynne by Putress. While in rise of the blood elves in a cinematic the blood elf emissary is stopped by phaedrynne and not Putress

Well this make sense because phaedrynne is varimatras

 

[bollabink]

Both of your campaigns are really awesome. Well balanced, challenging and blizzlike, think I have replayed them for more than 5 times since the release of 1.0 versions. The only thing that bothers me is that there is no warning about 10 mins timer in chapter 10, so if you lost most of your army and finish first main quest - you most likely will have to restart/reload, but that's minor Great job anyway!

 

[tomoraider]

Hi it would be to know you intend to do a third campaign such as draeneis, troll, tauren or other? and also in curse of forsaken, you replaced phaedrynne by Putress. While in rise of the blood elves in a cinematic the blood elf emissary is stopped by phaedrynne and not Putress

Doubtful, don't think I will. And Phaelynne is still there because I haven't updated RotBE yet.

Both of your campaigns are really awesome. Well balanced, challenging and blizzlike, think I have replayed them for more than 5 times since the release of 1.0 versions. The only thing that bothers me is that there is no warning about 10 mins timer in chapter 10, so if you lost most of your army and finish first main quest - you most likely will have to restart/reload, but that's minor Great job anyway!

Thanks, glad you liked them! Yeah, I've thought about that in Chapter Ten. I just like the idea of a sudden pressure to finish to map, but I get why it might be frustrating. I'll think about changing it, though I think it'll most likely remain the same.

 

[Forsaken17]

does any one have a dl link in patch 1.30.2 if so pls someone send me or tell me where to find thx u

 

[nuck001]

does any one have a dl link in patch 1.30.2 if so pls someone send me or tell me where to find thx u

Try this.

 

[levantinh]

Varian model does not looks like him at all. If you still plan to update again, you should change it. And Terenas too, atleast put a helmet on that paladin model. I know this is not important, but I just want it to looks perfect XD

King Varian Wrynn

 

[Forsaken17]

Try this.

How do i put campaigns in the 1.30 patch it doest scan the campaigns i have in my file when i updated the game to 1.30

 

[tomoraider]

How do i put campaigns in the 1.30 patch it doest scan the campaigns i have in my file when i updated the game to 1.30

Campaigns have to be put in My Documents/Warcraft 3/Campaigns folder.

 

[Forsaken17]

Campaigns have to be put in My Documents/Warcraft 3/Campaigns folder.

Yea but it doesnt seem to scan the custom campaigns i placed there cuz when i dl the 1.30 it installed another warcraft or doesnt let my prevoius frozen throne playable the 1.27 one

 

[tomoraider]

Yea but it doesnt seem to scan the custom campaigns i placed there cuz when i dl the 1.30 it installed another warcraft or doesnt let my prevoius frozen throne playable the 1.27 one

I'd suggest you just completely reinstall Warcraft 3. Sounds like that should fix it.

 

[Forsaken17]

I'd suggest you just completely reinstall Warcraft 3. Sounds like that should fix it.

This is what its inside the warcraft file when i re-install the 1.30.2 patch it doest have campaign folder and doest scan if i place or create one

 

[tomoraider]

That's because you're in Program Files/Warcraft 3.

Campaigns go into the My Documents/Warcraft 3/Campaigns folder.

 

[Praznik]

I had great time playing this. Thanks for your effort.

 

[Himperion]

Well, i've been playing on Hard difficulty this time, i'm going for the eight chapter today. 1.30.2

Chapter 6 is probably the hardest of the campaign until now. The Abomination really fell short until is the moment to attack the demon bases, the bite skill doesn't affect most of the demons, like blue felguards, blue sucubbi, red fel hunts, and blue void shades. The nerfed and balanced Dreadguard is the bread and butter of the mission.

This limitation may be for these units being over level 5, but at least Gordo that is supposed to be a massive unit even for Abos, should be able to eat high level demons.

Chapter 7 Orange AI is wonky.

Playing on the intended way, Blood Elf and Forsaken on different sides at the same time, make the Orange Undead to attack the Blood Elf base with two full transports, this make defending the Forsaken base easy, because the Orange player left these units iddle after destroying the base, including the hero.

I used Sylvanas to recover the book dropped by the Vrykul main and killed the Orange undead, another full transport landed on the BE base even if there wasn't anything to destroy on sight. They didn't attacked the new BE base, or were recalled to their main base once i started to attack it with the Forsaken. And during that time the Orange hero stayed on his base, and only basic troops attacked the Forsaken main.

 

[Forsaken17]

That's because you're in Program Files/Warcraft 3.

Campaigns go into the My Documents/Warcraft 3/Campaigns folder.

It finally works thx u verry much now i can play one of the best campaign in warcraft sry for the trouble i just really wanted to play the forsaken its my fav story and raise

 

[levantinh]

Anyone else check this topic and ROTBE everyday just to see if tomoraider releases something new?

 

[tomoraider]

I had great time playing this. Thanks for your effort.

Glad you liked it!

Well, i've been playing on Hard difficulty this time, i'm going for the eight chapter today. 1.30.2

Chapter 6 is probably the hardest of the campaign until now. The Abomination really fell short until is the moment to attack the demon bases, the bite skill doesn't affect most of the demons, like blue felguards, blue sucubbi, red fel hunts, and blue void shades. The nerfed and balanced Dreadguard is the bread and butter of the mission.

This limitation may be for these units being over level 5, but at least Gordo that is supposed to be a massive unit even for Abos, should be able to eat high level demons.

Chapter 7 Orange AI is wonky.

Playing on the intended way, Blood Elf and Forsaken on different sides at the same time, make the Orange Undead to attack the Blood Elf base with two full transports, this make defending the Forsaken base easy, because the Orange player left these units iddle after destroying the base, including the hero.

I used Sylvanas to recover the book dropped by the Vrykul main and killed the Orange undead, another full transport landed on the BE base even if there wasn't anything to destroy on sight. They didn't attacked the new BE base, or were recalled to their main base once i started to attack it with the Forsaken. And during that time the Orange hero stayed on his base, and only basic troops attacked the Forsaken main.

Dang it, I thought I made the AI work fine in Chapter Seven! Well, that will need another look.

It finally works thx u verry much now i can play one of the best campaign in warcraft sry for the trouble i just really wanted to play the forsaken its my fav story and raise

No problem, have fun playing the campaign!

Anyone else check this topic and ROTBE everyday just to see if tomoraider releases something new?

Hah I doubt I'll be releasing anything anytime soon!

 

[Himperion]

Another bug on the mission 12. Fall of the Lich King

The brown colored Obelisk at random doesn't deactivate after fighting the Valkyr sisters in the boss fight. Using cheats a nuking them works well ,_,

Can't tell if that is caused for the 1.30.4 version. The Red and Blue obelisk works as intended.

Edit. as i couldn't turn off the brown Obelisk i restarted the map and used cheat to reach that section.

This being my first Obelisk, Lorth'remar activated his line of "Two gone, one remains.", after Sindragosa the blue Obelisk was deactivated, and the red was still active. But it opened the gate to Kel'thuzad.

 

[UkyoKuonji]

Great work.. Its very cool to use banshee possess alliance wisp,peasant(before kill putress),scourge worker, vrykul dreadlord worker and scarlet peasant....
Its not bug though but its awesome to get a chance trying all races and turn in against their own enemies.. It only worked in god mode
And plz dont mad buddy you already make the best campaign..I expect more than you boiiii