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Create a Game Engine based on WC3 Map Editor by Hive?

Discussion in 'Game Development' started by Hanman69, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. Hanman69

    Hanman69

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    It's been written about quite a lot in this forum. So I though why doesn't Hiveworkshops staff get together with the community and we together create our own game engine & editor for us all that's based on the wc3 world editor? So we can make standalone games instead. I bet a lot of people would pay for that to happen.
    It's of course much easier said than done, but it would be a dream come true. "The Hive Editor" or something noice like that.
     
  2. TriggerHappy

    TriggerHappy

    Code Moderator

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    The editor is nice but for me the reason I mod Warcraft III is because of the art assets and Battle.net.
     
  3. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    If you want a nice little Architecture for it, I had come up with this after many cups of Tea :p

    • Character Engine
    • Event Engine
    • Lighting Engine
    • Model Engine
    • Physics Engine
    • Sound Engine
    • Terrain Engine

    It always bugged me that you can't make Models in the World Editor! That should always come with it. Same with actually MAKING your own Sounds!
     
  4. staniks

    staniks

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    I don't mean to sound condescending, but I believe you're greatly underestimating the amount of time and effort required to accomplish something like this, even from just an engineering standpoint, not to mention art assets.

    You could accomplish all of this, if not more, with any of the commercial (or even free, open-source) game engines. True, there's no convenience of Battle.net to allow easy distribution and no huge asset library to use, but it's still better than nothing.
     
  5. pyf

    pyf

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    If that 'we together' includes you, then make your dream come true and go ahead.
    :wink:

    Good luck.
     
  6. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    Oh come on!

    That's the fun of Engineering. To take apart something, and just simply see WHO can muck it up into something useable and amazing!

    A TEST. Of who can mod the Software or Machine the MOST, and turn it into a completely different thing. 3rd Person Over-The-Shoulder Camera Action Game....piloting Gyrocopters, controlling Horse Reins and stuff in a Lordaeron jungle chase or something...from a pack of Lich as Jaina or something!
     
  7. pyf

    pyf

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    @EggPooPoo: Modding an already existing game engine is not the same thing as creating a new one from scratch (*cough!* Xash3D).
     
  8. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    What do you mean?
     
  9. staniks

    staniks

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    Modding is somewhat simple - you use a set of tools to take advantage of very specific functionality exposed by the game/engine developers.

    Writing a game engine from scratch involves much more.
     
  10. pyf

    pyf

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  11. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Q: Why would I use the world editor over something like unity?
    A: Free assets that work well together.

    I guess there is also some netcoding and whatnot that you can skip. But overall seems like a waste of time.
     
  12. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    That's the fun though!
     
  13. pyf

    pyf

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    ... except the OP is talking about creating our own game engine & editor for us all that's based on the wc3 world editor.


    @Hanman69: according to you, what would the features and specs be, for such a project to be considered a viable one by the WC3 community? (programming language, scripting, supported OS(es), required computer hardware...)

    As a rough guideline, here is a partial list of already existing game engines, so you can document yourself further on the subject:
    List of game engines - Wikipedia
     
  14. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Oh yeah, good luck getting people to agree on language and frameworks.
     
  15. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    What's wrong with that? :p
     
  16. staniks

    staniks

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    Is it?

    Nothing, it's just a bit too ambitious.

    Let's look at it from a working persons' standpoint - generally, people with the skills required to make something like this already work full-time, and would probably burn out if they'd get home only to work more, not to mention social life and family responsibilities.

    For example, I write C++ for a living. After 8 hours of work, it's really hard to focus on another project once I get home. Hell, it's hard to focus even on smaller hobby projects. Look at this crappy raycaster:

    [​IMG]

    That took five months, and it's just barely 5,000 lines of code. Now imagine making something as complex as Warcraft III engine and tools.

    You'd think throwing more people at a project would make things go faster, but it doesn't really work that way, especially when you're dealing with a project where everyone works for free on their own volition. Also, the more people you have, the greater organisational effort is required. Issue tracking software, collaboration boards, version control systems, and so on. Things add up, and suddenly it's not a hobby project anymore and becomes work instead.

    There are projects which have successfully pulled this off (Battle for Wesnoth, for instance), but they are much smaller in scale and more self-contained than what is proposed in this thread. Also, they are spearheaded by actual developers who bring substantial contribution to the table rather than just ideas. In the end, ideas are worthless if there's no implementation.

    Don't get me wrong, if you want to make this happen, by all means - do it. I just think it's a bit unrealistic to expect that someone will do it for you. If you want to see some change, take point.
     
  17. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    Then don't come on board for the project :p.

    No one is making you.
     
  18. pyf

    pyf

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    Everything. Plus, any serious attempt to undertake such an herculean task may imho very well get destroyed/voided by the WC3 community itself.

    @Hanman69:
    For the record, here is a tiny bit of information about the history of the 0 A.D. project
    0 A.D. | A free, open-source game of ancient warfare
    (note: still unfinished after more than 15 years, fyi)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  19. EggPooPoo

    EggPooPoo

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    Ah, I forgot what this is like to feel.

    Always remember, an Engineer must tackle through all. You are as hands on as the man of War. You just battle a different battle. Every day, a new problem, a new riddle; a new CONUNDRUM!

    You just make a Compiler (you can check out what they call "The Dragon Book" on Compiler Design), to convert from human code instruction into Machine Language, and you design some simple Modules like are already there. Just simple Stages they call them (when you have a new Window in a Program that has the Window Bar at the top with the X Button, etc., or can be seen in the Task Bar at bottom), Event Editor, Terrain Editor, etc. Set up Panels going either Vertical or Horizontal to add your Buttons to, some simple Flyout Menus, Dropdown Menus, Checkbox Lists when needed (those will be less common).

    But basically, you have a little section to do your JASS or whatever language you'd want (we could call it WSL, Warcraft Scripting Language). Write to some simple files for splitting the Map Archive (I learned this back when trying to deprotect maps :p) so that it can be read by Warcraft (there's no actual rule even that it has to be the exact same as the current one, already Map Protectors will completely change it for their map) with a .wtg file for Triggers, .w3u for Units, .w3d for Doodads, .w3i for Items, etc.

    You'd normally split up these different things in a team, and follow proper Project Lifecycle they call it; where you don't just jump into construction.

    Storyboard > Requirements > Blueprint > Construction > Prototyping > Insertion > Maintenance!
     
  20. staniks

    staniks

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    That's what they usually tell you in job interviews when offering lower than average pay as if work was a reward unto itself.

    You don't, because well-established compilers already exist. Also, I don't think you understand what the Dragon Book is actually about.

    You've never really done any programming, have you? :)