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Wacraft 3 in Unreal Engine.

Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by Amigoltu, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    When an "amateur" makes a better game when a multi-billion dollar company...






    These are only short presentations, but look at the terrain, shadows, environment. Look at how well everything blends in, and the thing seems to run really smooth. Couldn't Blizzard deliver this with a new engine? I am sure they could have.

    Supposedly the reason for not doing it was, that it would make older maps incompatible. Tell me - how many old maps are fully working in current reforged? And the maker of the videos above imported Warcraft 3 Reforged models in Unreal Engine. So it is perfectly possible to make a new engine, and make existing warcraft resources compatible.
     
  2. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Not this crap again. It's just ported to the Unreal Engine. Looks, like it's always dawn or dusk. It's bad, like most of contemporary game visuals.
     
  3. Antinous

    Antinous

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    Heavy use of volumetric lightning... in a RTS. What a joke.
    Could fit very well for a classic computer RPG, but that's all.
     
  4. Frotty

    Frotty

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    Where is the game? All I see are some imported reforged models with some simple unreal behaviors in something you can hardly call a tech demo.
     
  5. Retera

    Retera

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    I have out-memed you by rewriting the entire game in Java:



    This one looks more like Warcraft III to me, to be honest.
     
  6. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, as they say. The point of updated Reforged graphics was to make the game look more realistic, as far as it can be done for Warcraft, and this Unreal Engine presentation did it wonderfully. THIS is what I expected Reforged to look like. And while I do prefer the original graphics, it would have been interesting to experience this.
     
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    That's a totally different thing than it looking better or realistic which it doesn't.
     
  8. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    Alright, it isn't technically a full game, and I didn't mean it is, which you understand of course, you just decided to pick on the title, because you couldn't think of anything else. Anyways, what I meant is, that this looks FAR better than anything Blizzard did with Reforged, and it's just basic stuff. Blizzard, with all of their resources, could have easily made the entire game like this.

    And again, it is subjective. I DO find it better. Much, much better than current Reforged, or even 2018 demo of Reforged.
     
  9. Serenity09

    Serenity09

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    you can't really say things like the first quote and not expect people to have strong reactions. also, most of these points aren't saying that the Unreal aesthetic is bad, they're saying that it's an unfair comparison because it's literally just showing the time and effort put into HD rendered via a different engine. half of the work that's gone into reforged is so that it could exist in the same engine. if they had ported it to Unity then every existing custom game would immediately no longer work, and have no easy avenue to be ported

    Reforged is amazing because of how much it changes while simultaneously changing so little. Ask a pro and they'll say that the engine has changed too much, but ask your average custom game player, and they'll say it could have done more. You're looking at it from an angle that doesn't give it any room to shine
     
  10. mori

    mori

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    Wrong assumption. Unreal Engine 4 has been in development for literal years, and Epic Games has been in the engine-development market for more than two decades. Their primary product IS UE4, the renderer of which is the major selling point of the engine.

    Implementing a renderer like this is no easy task. In-house engine development can easily balloon the budget to unfathomable proportions. What Blizzard had to do under the obviously constrained budget of the project is add a modern renderer to a 20-year old game, which in itself alone is a gargantuan task, given all the pitfalls of working with legacy code and having to write your own renderer.

    Like Serenity said, you're not going to get backwards compatibility and amazing graphics of Unreal level at the same time. WC3's entire codebase would have to be scrapped if you want a renderer like Unreal's.
     
  11. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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  12. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    And what good did keeping the same engine give the players? Asides from abysmal performance? How many of the older fans are even playing Reforged? How many of the older maps are actually properly working? At least in my opinion, Blizzard should have just made a new Engine for Reforged, screw compatibility. If they kept the old client AND Reforged client, compatibility would not matter. Nobody would have lost anything.

    And what do we have now? A game that is not even remade properly graphics-wise. Look at that terrain, shadows, portraits, etc. What is the worth of Reforged at all now? It's not improving anything, it's not even properly remaking graphics. Useless.

    @mori
    Pretty much the only thing blizzard did with Reforged is add some new models, that they didn't even make themselves. Oh and do away with the old game and the old bnet. That's it. "gargantuan"...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  13. Retera

    Retera

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    If you believe making Reforged is so simple, I encourage you to do it yourself. That'll be one of the fun parts about Warsmash when I am finished. No one will ever be able to Reforge Warsmash because of how much work Blizzard had to do, and nobody but Blizzard employees would care enough to try to do that work.

    In Warsmash, it'll just be impossible to do that.

    You can make HD models with SD models inside of them. The Reforged format is crazy levels of backwards compatible. Yet after doing a lot rightly, they got lazy around the edges. The SD models in Reforged are stored in the new format, for example.

    I'd say maps are similar. The aspiration to be backwards compatible in Reforged is crazy-dedicated. The idea that Blizzard did nothing is a hoax. Blizzard simply didn't do what certain people wanted.
     
  14. Xeryxoz

    Xeryxoz

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    Here's a good question, why don't we just create a new game and use royalty-free sounds for everything? I bet my pancreas it would sell like Mount&Blade.
     
  15. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Gimme that pancreas. Gonna sell it back to you on the black market.
     
  16. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    Yes, Blizzard just "got lazy around the edges" and removed the original game altogether. But it's ok, right? It's just not what certain people wanted, according to you, isn't it? Despite the fact Blizzard promised to let players keep the old game. Despite actually good remasters allowing players to still play the old client (AoE2). Despite loads of people being against new patches and Reforged from the beginning back in 2018.

    Blizzard left the players with the option to either play reforged, or quit Warcraft 3 completely. Where's that compatibility you speak of? Does it even matter, when the old client no longer exists?

    "Crazy-dedicated"? Or just an excuse to put minimal effort into this thing and sell it for a price of a full game? And they were so "crazy-dedicated", that they scrapped the entire idea of backwards-compatibility, and done away with the original game, replacing it with Reforged. Even forcing players who didn't purchase Reforged to update to it.
     
  17. Xeryxoz

    Xeryxoz

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    Gotta see that game for my pancreas my friend
     
  18. Retera

    Retera

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    It is only true that the original game was removed if you make the arbitrary distinction that Reforged on classic mode is not the original game. The line is blurred.

    I can give an example of how the line is blurred, too.

    Don't watch this whole uncut video, but in the first two or three minutes I describe what I'm about to do and I make a mod for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos:



    Then I tried to play my creation on TFT. It was insane. Broken. Unplayable beyond belief. More broken than people think Reforged is.



    So, what version of the game is your classic version? Where in the gray lines of Frozen Throne versions do you believe Blizzard stoppee giving you the classic version? 1.29? 1.30? 1.31? Or maybe like me you lost everything in 1.23 or 1.24.

    People treat 1.26 like it's some kind of gold standard but I've been playing this game long enough to remember when 1.26 felt like it was Blizzard decree to break all of my maps. I remember spending hours slogging through code I didn't write to try to fix my favorite maps to run on 1.26.

    People just want 1.26 because it is what they are told to want, because the people who really know what's going on can put viruses in 1.26 maps and they want to keep things that way.

    Edit:

    For a better example of how this project was supposed to look ingame:
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  19. Anaxie

    Anaxie

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    What a pointless thread.

    No OP that looks like shit.
     
  20. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    The offline single player like we had it before is unavailable. Constant internet access required. The old menu is unavailable. Custom games and custom campaigns are gone. Switching between RoC and TFT is gone. Essentially, only the multiplayer lobby and main campaign are there. Talking about campaign, certain aspects are lost (e.g. Dryad's "I am so wasted" line), the cut-scene dialogs seem to be off, as well, with (possibly) new voice actors, music and other sounds seemingly gone (or not working), and other things. Graphics are also altered - shadows are seemingly restricted to Reforged setting (wtf?), colors are messed up, etc. And all of this is without even mentioning numerous performance issues and bugs.

    The simple fact remains, that this is NOT the old client. This is the Reforged client, only it can be played with... somewhat old graphics. But it's not the old client anymore.

    Personally, I consider it normal that some maps may be malfunctioning when transitioning from one patch to another. That is one of the few things I do not blame Blizz for. Taking the original client from people is a different matter altogether tho...

    P.S. to answer your question, I have versions 1.27b and 1.30.4 saved as backup, and can switch between them. I like the new things they added post patch 1.29 (new functions, raised editor limits, widescreen support, etc.), but at the same time, patches 1.27 and, indeed 1.26 work better for most mods out there, as well as multiplayer, and even things like WEX are working for those versions, giving Function Highlighting, among other great things. The real problems began with Reforged though. When these patches no longer mattered, for the old client was gone.

    @Anaxie
    Fair enough, if you think so. I disagree though. For me, those graphics look amazing. That's what I expected from Reforged. Even if Blizz could not have made the entire game like that, which is debatable, they could have at least used a new engine to bring new, more detailed terrain, better lighting, shadows, more realistic trees, possibly even wind animations on grass and trees. Essentially giving us what we saw in 2018 demo, or, possibly, even something better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020