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(Closed) Orc Sub-Hero(es)

Discussion in 'The 2 Player Campaign' started by TheSpoon, Aug 16, 2010.

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  1. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

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    Debode, as an answer for your question:

    Mannoroth corrupted specific numbers of Orcs/Clans with his blood and Magtheridon with his blood samewise.

    When Grom killed Mannoroth, he released the Orcs/Clans that Mannoroth corrupted. In the Blood Elf Campaign, I think those Orcs/Clans protecting Magtheridon are corrupted by, well, Magtheridon.

    EDIT: This item thing seems to be a problem =/ ?
     
  2. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    I think we solved that.
     
  3. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    But yes, please continue to post suggestions for Nazgrel's ultimate.
    A few things you should be aware of:

    - It doesn't have to be MUI
    - It needs to suit Nazgrels 'character' (read back)
    - If possible, needs a 'Fel' form
    - Can't be too much like Grom's ulti
    - Can't 'outshine' the other characters
     
  4. Twizter

    Twizter

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    How about something like Furions ulti, except he calls down thunder to strike the enemies. The fel version could be him calling down firebolts or w/e
     
  5. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

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    How about a simple Locust Swarm edit? Thunderballs instead of locusts and something either Fel or Flame-y for Fel Nazgrel.
     
  6. barowei

    barowei

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    Well, I have one idea in the mind:

    Nazgrel calls a spirits of fallen warriors from the dead bodies lying around adding X*number_of_corpses armor and X*number_of_corpses life regeneration to the allied units in 700 range.
    Fel version would have same basics, but instead calling spirits it would make corpses explode dealing to enemy damage and lowering their armor.

    Now, I will go back to the campaign - in Orc3 and Orc8 giving computer to the player is definitely BAD idea - it totally would break the balance, because AI acts in specific ways doesn't really cooperating with player. So that SHOULDN'T be changed. I can just imagine human knights and priests cooperating with orcish army and I definitely don't want to see that as true...
    And of course, I'm against giving control over Cairne in Orc2, but I don't think I will be stubborn here. Using Cairne in O2 isn't important and breaks system a bit. First of all I would like more to have fun with new hero one scenario longer, also Cairne becomes playable in Orc6 and that doesn't need to be changed. And, last of all, Cairne played by player and Cairne played by AI that's two different Cairnes, so... maybe let's leave this, as it is?
     
  7. Twizter

    Twizter

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    The Nazgrel spell could work, but maybe it outshines the other heroes spells a bit.

    Now, in Orc3, Spoon suggested in making the Computer trigger whatever Grom should be triggering. It won't break the balance because Spoon will just add different stuff that will make it harder, like more frequent attacks, or upgraded infernals in Orc8.
    I don't think you understand the part of Orc2. There won't be two different Cairnes, there will just be one, and you'll have control of him. It wouldn't break the balance, because you still wouldn't have control of the other Taurens and Spoon said that he was thinking about removing the supporting Taurens on Insane, making it even harder.
     
  8. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    I think you have a point there. Yeah, who wants to play boooring Cairne when you can play Nazgrel?

    Cairne does not have any exciting or powerful abilities on Level 4.
     
  9. barowei

    barowei

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    No - that you didn't understand me - I wasn't talking about 2 Cairnes (but maybe, as my language isn't fine, that sounded like that). I just want to suggest that's a bit difference between Cairne played by AI and Cairne played by player - maybe that should be left as that was on beginning - but as I told before: I won't be stubborn here.

    Even if he will make it harder - that doesn't change fact, that it won't be same scenario that you can play in campaign. One of goals of this project was to make that being as similar to wc3 campaign as that is possible. That's good and I hope you won't forget about that.
     
  10. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    Nah, your english is fine. Twizter just misunderstood you.
    Still, Cairne has an important role in leading the caravan and I think I might just vote for Nazgrel.

    Also, if all the Taurens get removed, Cairne won't be able to deal with ANY of the attacks, so now you'll have to protect the Kodos AND Cairne AND still get through the map. That would make it the hardest option out of all the previously discussed ones.
     
  11. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

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    I agree with barowei. Here, I'll even suggest a solution:

    Add Nazgrel and remove some of the stupid AI Taurens on Normal.
    How many are there anyway?

    @McQ: This is Co-op. I think Nazgrel with his part of forces (or Thrall with his) is solely able to defend the Caravan. So both forces leaving the Caravan is kind of uhhmm.. senseless...
     
  12. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    Unless Nazgrel gets some sort of heal, (I'm seriously against this.) you won't have enough forces to cut your way through the map without missing a few items.

    We could also remove a few Taurens and add young Taurens instead. (There is a number of young Taurens on the first map. They're not as strong as Taurens.)
     
  13. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

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    Dude, why are you acting like I said "Nazgrel defends the caravan alone for the entire game", I didn't.

    Thrall and Nazgrel both protect the caravan, that's the main quest. Thrall or Nazgrel can also have some fun gathering items and killing creeps. Neither should face a problem since there's alot of Healing items and Fountains scattered around the map.

    Good idea on the Young Taurens.
     
  14. Twizter

    Twizter

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    Sorry for misunderstanding >.>.

    It'd be one of those co-op missions, where Thrall has to go with the part of his forces to clear the way ahead while Cairne protects the caravan. There are, I think, 4 Taurens defending the caravan and 2 or 3 fountains of health. With or without the Taurens, I'm pretty sure that the person playing Cairne could defend the caravan with his forces. Otherwise it would be like Nazgrel and Thrall just cut down everything they see while occasionally helping Cairne deal with the attacks
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  15. barowei

    barowei

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    Well, tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a goal of this scenario in wc3 campaign? Imo that's just another reason for leaving Cairne in AI's hands - it won't be so nice in insane mode anywayxP And yeah, it's good idea to replace some taurens with young ones.
     
  16. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    Allowing players to use the AI allied bases in O3 and O8 may seriously imbalance the game. But perhaps we can find a way around this?
    But I remind you that I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of balance rather than a lot of fun.

    I see we're having quite a large debate for O2 though.
    I seriously think it will be more fun & more balanced if we allow the other player to control the 2nd Cairne
    It may be deviating from the style of the original level a little, but doesn't that apply for all the maps? I think that 1 player collecting/protecting & 1 player fully protecting is the perfect style of play for the 2 player campaign.
    Even if I used Nazgrel instead, I'd be inclined to remove or greatly weaken Cairne, because 3 heroes defending the caravan just seems overkill. When I played it, there was no challenge protecting the caravan at all.
     
  17. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    That's mainly because:
    Try it on hard and without cheats. It won't be that easy.

    Btw, when is Under the Burning Skies going to be released?
     
  18. Deolrin

    Deolrin

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    Then you obviously played it on Normal, not on hard. :p
    The map is yours to change; if you feel like something is too powerful, weaken it. If you feel like something is too weak, strengthen it. You can always add more centaur attack waves, or strengthen them.
     
  19. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

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    I don't want to sound rude or anything, but Spoon, I seriously think that your serious thinking about Cairne being more fun to play with than Nazgrel is wrong. Really, I just want some of the other guys posting around this thread to simply add a small part to their post stating whether they would enjoy playing with Nazgrel or Cairne in 02 if they read this.

    Don't worry about the Difficulty Spoon, everything concerning that can be fixed/balanced but banishing a Hero can't. Anyway, it's your call.

    Oh and will Cairne, if chosen, have his O2 inventory when he continues in O6?
     
  20. McQvaBlood

    McQvaBlood

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    We already agreed on how inventories will work.
    Okay, let's do this then:
    • I would like to play Nazgrel when possible.
    • I don't want to play Jaina.
    • I vote for CH123 = Thrall/Nazgrel; CH45 = Grom/Nazgrel; CH678 = Thrall/Cairne.
    Copy this format and tell us your opinion.
     
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