Class Struggle

[Jew'o'Famine]

Righty, not many things to say about this...

It is quite a standard melee map, which of course is not a bad thing. The layout is symmetrical and fair to the players, the bases make sense, players don't spawn surrounded by enemies, yes, there is nothing extraordinary to point out. The only issue I had would be with the terrain, it isn't horrible, but it is incredibly flat and boring, so that's a thing.

Basically, it is a standard melee map with not great terrain, so I guess my rating should go accordingly to that... 2.5/5 - for 'standard'.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Neutral Hostile camp very near the starting point.
2. Terrain is utterly flat and some places have only one tile and least to no doodads. Because of that, the map looks unrefined, as if unfinished.
3. Enemy units might start near you in less than 3v3 games. I suggest using the triggers of this map to avoid this issue: Skeletal Coast v1.3
4. I suggest stronger creeps for/in the middle zone.

Awaiting Update.

==========================================================================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

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Map description threads

Description Guide - Melee Maps
Map Description - Templates
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3
Map Description Generator [1.2]
BB Codes | HIVE

A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

If you want more reviews, come here:
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[Jew'o'Famine]

Enemy units might start near you in less than 3v3 games.

Oh my? You mean as in a player can spawn next to an enemy player or... what?

Neutral Hostile camp very near the starting point.

Hm? Which one do you mean? To me the creep camps seem fairly placed... Might be wrong.

I suggest stronger creeps for/in the middle zone.

Well, the middle is quite interesting yes, I don't know why I didn't mention that. Yes, for the size of the map, there is too many green camps.

 

[Rheiko]

Oh my? You mean as in a player can spawn next to an enemy player or... what?

Look at the player location placement. The distance between three locations for each northern and southern map are quite close.

 

[deepstrasz]

Oh my? You mean as in a player can spawn next to an enemy player or... what?

No. I mean the AI can start to the nearest Start Location which is bad because the distance between you and the AI would be less than for a 1v1 map.

 

[Jew'o'Famine]

Hm, yes, you two appear to be quite right. I never really got into a game where the AI could spawn next to me, so I guess I sort of didn't pay attention to that. Quite stupid from me, yes. My apologies for my stupidity.

 

[MysteryMaze]

1. Neutral Hostile camp very near the starting point.
2. Terrain is utterly flat and some places have only one tile and least to no doodads. Because of that, the map looks unrefined, as if unfinished.
3. Enemy units might start near you in less than 3v3 games. I suggest using the triggers of this map to avoid this issue: Skeletal Coast v1.3
4. I suggest stronger creeps for/in the middle zone.

Awaiting Update.

==========================================================================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

These will help make a better description:

Map description threads

Description Guide - Melee Maps
Map Description - Templates
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3
Map Description Generator [1.2]
BB Codes | HIVE

A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!

1. The distances are now farther as the locations of starting points pushed backward by 1 block.
2. Terrain no longer flat, doodads have been added. A little more tile variation.
3. No need to worry about that. I have experimented as 2v2 almost 10 times but each time two teams were all separate.
Also, on 1v1, it wouldn't matter as it takes 25sec to reach to the enemy right next to you, considering 27sec on Twisted Meadow, which is a 4-player map.
4. Yes, the creeps are now stronger for more competition.


I appreciate your thorough feedback!

 

[deepstrasz]

I appreciate your thorough feedback!

Don't want to be even more annoying but here it goes:
-trees in places that don't really look like artificial zones (man made) are placed very old gamish, straight. You could make places near natural places look more less artificially placed. Some trees are placed on artificial rocky tiles. In reality, trees would not be able to grow there (sure, if it would've looked like the roots were cracking the rocks...)
-the basin has only one tile and is very flat; also has little to no doodads and creatures are placed in corners; makes it look ugly, really
-still one tile on the terrain for the Gold Mines in the middle
-you could make the creep camps in the middle near the Market Place more interesting; think of an interesting combination of spells/attributes/abilities that they could be (example: Troll Priest+Wizard+Brigand with poison+Enforcer+Golem with Slow)
-the northern part has mostly two tiles for the terrain; you could leave those two grass types to differentiate the road from the boardwalk but then to the south of that, there's only one grass tile type which doesn't look that nice

Overall not too many doodads are seen.

Melee maps have to be symmetrical (there's no doubt about that here) and beautiful, I mean the terrain has to look somewhat impressive not like a Warcraft II map's.

 

[MysteryMaze]

Don't want to be even more annoying but here it goes:
-trees in places that don't really look like artificial zones (man made) are placed very old gamish, straight. You could make places near natural places look more less artificially placed. Some trees are placed on artificial rocky tiles. In reality, trees would not be able to grow there (sure, if it would've looked like the roots were cracking the rocks...)
-the basin has only one tile and is very flat; also has little to no doodads and creatures are placed in corners; makes it look ugly, really
-still one tile on the terrain for the Gold Mines in the middle
-you could make the creep camps in the middle near the Market Place more interesting; think of an interesting combination of spells/attributes/abilities that they could be (example: Troll Priest+Wizard+Brigand with poison+Enforcer+Golem with Slow)
-the northern part has mostly two tiles for the terrain; you could leave those two grass types to differentiate the road from the boardwalk but then to the south of that, there's only one grass tile type which doesn't look that nice

Overall not too many doodads are seen.

Melee maps have to be symmetrical (there's no doubt about that here) and beautiful, I mean the terrain has to look somewhat impressive not like a Warcraft II map's.

Though there are some points I agree,
I think you are being "overly strict" in judging the aesthetic beauty of this specific map.

For instance, you keep pointing out two tiles, which I do not think is any problem.
If you take a look at other famous cityscape-based maps such as Wellspring and MarketSquare,
they are designed in the way Class Struggle is designed.
Maybe you will need to check them out.

For neatly organized cityscape type maps, there isn't anything else you can actually use
other than the "two types of grass" as buildable areas.
Well, you do have dirt, but that isn't much suitable for a garden.
The basic concept of the northern part of this map is an extremely neat garden grown by rich people,
and I wouldn't want any dirt on that.
The northern part is a strictly man-made artificial garden. So no dirt.

I would have agreed with you if the other part is also made up of two tiles, but it isn't.
I am using a variety of tiles near Mercenaries and labs, as well as on the middle area.

As for basin, of course they have to be flat as they are artificial; they are not naturally formed.

Middle area, again. They are man made gardens. I don't want it look messy with mud on it.
And that isn't even one tile only as there are thick grass and bricks.
Doodads are not everywhere, but they are in their appropriate positions.
I am using many kinds of doodads ranging from columns, houses, lanterns, boxes, statues, torches,
burnt houses, burnt columns, etc. and I think very enough.



Of course as a map reviewer you can give suggestions and advice, which I would appreciate,
but I think you are being way too strict in some way.
I wonder about my map still being on the awaiting list even after changes have been made following your instructions.
Other than anything, this map is literally functional, and is in no violation of submission rules.
You said this map looks like that of WC2, sorry I can't agree.
I know everyone has different aesthetic view but it has to be respected.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you take a look at other famous cityscape-based maps such as Wellspring and MarketSquare,
they are designed in the way Class Struggle is designed.
Maybe you will need to check them out.

That shouldn't stop you from doing that mistake even if those are BlizzEnt maps.

The basic concept of the northern part of this map is an extremely neat garden grown by rich people,
and I wouldn't want any dirt on that.

I didn't think of dirt. Alright, that can go unseen. However the dirt squares in the middle where the Golems and the two Gold Mines are.. and that one tile under the shallow water... I don't know.

I am using a variety of tiles near Mercenaries and labs, as well as on the middle area.

Yes but not the above mentioned zones which catch the eye quickly.

As for basin, of course they have to be flat as they are artificial; they are not naturally formed.

Flat is one thing. What about the annoying one tile?

And that isn't even one tile only as there are thick grass and bricks.

I wasn't referring to those. Specifically talking about the tile in the water and the dirt near the gold mines in the middle which is overabundant.

Other than anything, this map is literally functional, and is in no violation of submission rules.

Well, of course it does not violate the rules. However I'd like it to stay out of Substandard.

You said this map looks like that of WC2, sorry I can't agree.

Not literally. Some parts as mentioned, really remind of older games terrain.

I know everyone has different aesthetic view but it has to be respected.

Well, I'm not the only reviewer, so, please do ask for other opinions.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Map was reportedly held back under some quality grievances. Under the revised rules, the map is approvable.
Citing updated quality rule:

4. Quality Standard
- Fully functioning gameplay
- Acceptable terrain or visuals, must not be totally empty or monotonous. See: A Guideline to Terraining
- No game breaking bugs / mostly leakless triggers. See: Memory Leaks
- Tool-tips should have descriptions and broken icons (DISBTNs) should be kept to a minimum.

Short review:
Standard 3v3 melee map. While it's not suited for competitive gameplay due to the layout and lack of goldmines, it does give minor variety. The terrain is slightly below average, but fits much of Blizzard's quality. Adding more doodads, especially in bare areas such as the water ways will do miles good for the map, but we're not gonna force you to do that. We'll let the commenter ratings decide.

3/5, approved.

 

[MysteryMaze]

Map was reportedly held back under some quality grievances. Under the revised rules, the map is approvable.
Citing updated quality rule:


Short review:
Standard 3v3 melee map. While it's not suited for competitive gameplay due to the layout and lack of goldmines, it does give minor variety. The terrain is slightly below average, but fits much of Blizzard's quality. Adding more doodads, especially in bare areas such as the water ways will do miles good for the map, but we're not gonna force you to do that. We'll let the commenter ratings decide.

3/5, approved.

Although much late, thank you for your approval. I was forgetting about this.
I opened this map and looked back, found it to be somewhat barren and therefore ended up decorating some of the areas.

Also, bridges were removed to facilitate moving.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

I like the aesthetics of the map, the layout and water in the middle kind of reminds me of a few urban maps from Dawn of War. Also, props for showing the bottom half of the map as the land of the impoverished and the top half as the one belonging to the rich - it really adds some flavour to the map.

I might be biased, since I'm an avid fan of Market Square, but to me, this seems to be a very well-balanced (it's perfectly symmetric, too) 3v3 map with no real issues. Open spaces, reasonable creep camps and a fair amount of expansions. Feels like a Blizzard map, to be honest.

Edit: One suggestion I might have, but it's really a matter of taste - you could change the trees in the poor area to Lordaeron or Ashenvale trees (or both) in order to show how the vegetation is taken care of in the area of the rich and how it's abandoned in the poor district. Not a real issue, though.

 

[MysteryMaze]

I like the aesthetics of the map, the layout and water in the middle kind of reminds me of a few urban maps from Dawn of War. Also, props for showing the bottom half of the map as the land of the impoverished and the top half as the one belonging to the rich - it really adds some flavour to the map.

I might be biased, since I'm an avid fan of Market Square, but to me, this seems to be a very well-balanced (it's perfectly symmetric, too) 3v3 map with no real issues. Open spaces, reasonable creep camps and a fair amount of expansions. Feels like a Blizzard map, to be honest.

Edit: One suggestion I might have, but it's really a matter of taste - you could change the trees in the poor area to Lordaeron or Ashenvale trees (or both) in order to show how the vegetation is taken care of in the area of the rich and how it's abandoned in the poor district. Not a real issue, though.

Thank you for your comment! You are the first one to mention theme of the map and I am glad that you like it.

As for the trees, I will give it a change when I get a free time. Thanks for your idea!