Chronicles of the Second War: Tides of Darkness Demo

[Moonman]

Note: For those who haven't followed us, this is an HD only campaign, it can't be played in Classic.

Update: Join our Discord server to discuss the campaign, give feedback or just talk about WarCraft relates topics: https://discord.gg/K3ppgG4

 

[tulee]

Wow, basically the first campaign in the campaign section made for Reforged (along with Spoon's 2p series and Insanemonster's prologue remake). Pretty neat. Congrats to all the people working hard on this project.

 

[InsaneMonster]

Congrats folks!

 

[papastreck]

Awesome! Models, land and optional missions are cool. I passed the first three missions and found a bug: When I order 4 destroyers with 4 shipyards and have 700 oil, all 4 destroyers are ordered, but I am left with -2100 oil.

 

[Shar Dundred]

I've already had the honor of trying this campaign, so I can safely say without a doubt that I approve it & look forward to seeing its further development!
A job well done!

 

[Tamplier777]

Awesome! Models, land and optional missions are cool. I passed the first three missions and found a bug: When I order 4 destroyers with 4 shipyards and have 700 oil, all 4 destroyers are ordered, but I am left with -2100 oil.

Cool, never tried to send order from multiple shipyards)

 

[Draego]

I wanted to check this out and it gave me an excuse to get WC3 reforged (ive been meaning to play it). i downloaded this demo and put in maps folder in documents folder. Is there something else i need to download for the assets or did i put in wrong area ? i tried playing and most of the assets are missing.

 

[Tamplier777]

I wanted to check this out and it gave me an excuse to get WC3 (ive been meaning to play it). i downloaded this demo and put in maps folder in documents folder. Is there something else i need to download for the assets or did i put in wrong area ? i tried playing and most of the assets are missing.

this campaign is only for HD mode
absense of assets could be in SD

 

[Reaver]

Note: For those who haven't followed us, this is an HD only campaign, it can't be played in Classic.

The problem isn't the fact that we can't play this custom campaign in WC3 Classic.
The problem is we have to pay, or have paid, Activision/Blizzard for having WC3 Reforged while I would like to give the money to you guys for making the remastered of this masterpiece.

 

[Draego]

this campaign is only for HD mode
absense of assets could be in SD

i just bought Reforged today, then downloaded this demo, added to Documents\Warcraft III\Maps, opened game and went to single player , custom games, opened map 1 and most of assets are white and menu area is green. I checked the options and its set to Reforged and not classic. i also checked the preferences file and hd=1

 

[Moonman]

The problem isn't the fact that we can't play this custom campaign in WC3 Classic.
The problem is we have to pay, or have paid, Activision/Blizzard for having WC3 Reforged while I would like to give the money to you guys for making the remastered of this masterpiece.

There are quite a few bug-ridden meme games that were made great with modder, Skyrim/Fallout 4 is the first thing on my mind.
We cannot provide this campaign without Reforged, it's just how it is, luckely Reforged sells at half the proce of a AAA game, so if there are enough good projects for it, I would hope the initial nay-sayers would at least get the game for mods.

Regarding donations... we are trying to set up some method that would work for us and those who want to support us.
One issue is the cuts all those platforms take, let's say some crowdfunding platform takes 5% + 0.3$ each donation, transferring it to another bank or paypal would yet again cost ~5%.
An option would be to perhaps directly make a paypal account for donations, so less money would disappear in those cuts, however there would be no automatic transparency, like money already acquired compared to crowdfunding sites. However we could pay voice actors directly from paypal...
What do you guys think?

 

[Tamplier777]

i just bought Reforged today, then downloaded this demo, added to Documents\Warcraft III\Maps, opened game and went to single player , custom games, opened map 1 and most of assets are white and menu area is green. I checked the options and its set to Reforged and not classic. i also checked the preferences file and hd=1

That is weird. Has anybody here reproduced this issue?

 

[Furry]

GRAAAAAAPSSS

 

[Draego]

That is weird. Has anybody here reproduced this issue?

Ok it looks like its my installation. It is not the maps themselves

 

[Moonman]

Ok it looks like its my installation. It is not the maps themselves

Indeed has to be it, I cannot replicate the issue. Usually something like that occurs when players have lowest possible settings, but we have solved this issue long ago by properly saving textures.
As you said, it's a very fresh install, perhaps some files were missing, or a simple PC restart could fix it?

 

[Ardenaso]

looking forward to test this later! I'm excited!

 

[DealO]

I couldn't beat the first mission because the quest where I had to kill the human scouts didn't finish even after I killed all of them. (Except one boat that was out of reach)
Maybe it's because I build a base where on their landing-spot before they arrived?

 

[Tamplier777]

I couldn't beat the first mission because the quest where I had to kill the human scouts didn't finish even after I killed all of them. (Except one boat that was out of reach)
Maybe it's because I build a base where on their landing-spot before they arrived?

hmm, maybe footman lost in the forest? trigger checks that there is no living units of human player on the island

 

[Archian]

This looks awesome! Good job guys! Can't wait to test it out. Keep up the good work!

 

[Pokemanharald]

After playing for a bit i gotta say i really like this. Wrote down some of the issues i encountered

Chapter One

- When the humans arrived on the other side of the island i already had workers there working and they disrubted the cutscene with them arriving so it looked weird and you need this gold mine so i imagine players will be going for it early, might wanna block it off untill the humans arrive.
- Healing wound on Utok says it heals for 0 over 0 seconds and it's somewhat misleading, i taught i could heal others with the spell but it's a self heal. Could also just be me
- When Dal'rend has used his roar effect ability it's very hard to see what units are affected by it

Chapter Two

- The voice acotrs of the forest trolls in the first conversation is very slow
- After rescuing Zul'jin it took some time to realize where the swamps was, i had to A attack move on the troll camp to figure out where to go

Chapter Three and Four

- the dialog text sometimes was very close to each other, not sure if a mistake or wc3 reforged's fault


After playing through all of the chapters i'm very impressed, the terrain is beautiful, the custom models are on point and i gotta give credit to the orc voice actors. The cinematics and sound is so good too. Map design and difficulity spike is also very nice

I'm looking forward untill more is released, also i will be very disepointed if Urtok is not promoted to a hero with more abilities for his efforts

 

[Tamplier777]

After playing for a bit i gotta say i really like this. Wrote down some of the issues i encountered

Chapter One

- When the humans arrived on the other side of the island i already had workers there working and they disrubted the cutscene with them arriving so it looked weird and you need this gold mine so i imagine players will be going for it early, might wanna block it off untill the humans arrive.
- Healing wound on Utok says it heals for 0 over 0 seconds and it's somewhat misleading, i taught i could heal others with the spell but it's a self heal. Could also just be me
- When Dal'rend has used his roar effect ability it's very hard to see what units are affected by it

Chapter Two

- The voice acotrs of the forest trolls in the first conversation is very slow
- After rescuing Zul'jin it took some time to realize where the swamps was, i had to A attack move on the troll camp to figure out where to go

Chapter Three and Four

- the dialog text sometimes was very close to each other, not sure if a mistake or wc3 reforged's fault


After playing through all of the chapters i'm very impressed, the terrain is beautiful, the custom models are on point and i gotta give credit to the orc voice actors. The cinematics and sound is so good too. Map design and difficulity spike is also very nice

I'm looking forward untill more is released, also i will be very disepointed if Urtok is not promoted to a hero with more abilities for his efforts

Utok will be enemy hero boss in human campaign)) Orc campaign already has too many herous

 

[IIICatalystIII]

Chapter1.


Utok's Healing Wounds - can only be used on self, tooltip implies can be used on others.

Peons - Heavy Burdens, why does this exist? This wasn't a thing in Wc1-3. Is this to prevent long distance mining/chopping?

Wolf Lair - Hit radius is really small, only 3 units can hit it at a time. It feels like it should be more because of how large the object is.

Human Scout Animation - If you make a base at the nothern gold mine before the quest the human units will attack your base there, it messes with their animations and look wonky.

Will continue this later...

 

[Tamplier777]

Chapter1.


Utok's Healing Wounds - can only be used on self, tooltip implies can be used on others.

Peons - Heavy Burdens, why does this exist? This wasn't a thing in Wc1-3. Is this to prevent long distance mining/chopping?

Wolf Lair - Hit radius is really small, only 3 units can hit it at a time. It feels like it should be more because of how large the object is.

Human Scout Animation - If you make a base at the nothern gold mine before the quest the human units will attack your base there, it messes with their animations and look wonky.

Will continue this later...

Heavy burden is inspired from War of the Ring game where peons actually lifted bags. And it adds realism.
Utoks heal wounds design only for himself. Will change the tooltip in final release.
Regarding goldmine - will think how to resolve this issue.
The wolflair is hardly accessible because of pathing - is is surrounded by cliffs. imho 3 units is more than enough.

 

[Darklycan51]

Nice job

 

[Ardenaso]

Others have already mentioned it, anyway

• I like Dal'rend's Pissed quotes
• Utok's Pissed quotes need more energy IMO
• the Duck doesn't fit well in Reforged, it looks more like an SD asset than an HD asset
• Zul'jin's voice in cutscenes sound like an orc and it's quite different in unit responses
• Chapter 2 quest description is in small caps
• Chapter 4 is just... disturbing, too disturbing. Could've spared the children at least.
• Kingdom of Azeroth? Wasn't it retconned in Warcraft 2 as Kingdom of Stormwind and Azeroth being the continent?
• Could you also change the subfolders in the zip as Chapters 01 - 04 than Chapters One - Four? The alphabet order messes it up

 

[Tamplier777]

Others have already mentioned it, anyway

• I like Dal'rend's Pissed quotes
• Utok's Pissed quotes need more energy IMO
• the Duck doesn't fit well in Reforged, it looks more like an SD asset than an HD asset
• Zul'jin's voice in cutscenes sound like an orc and it's quite different in unit responses
• Chapter 2 quest description is in small caps
• Chapter 4 is just... disturbing, too disturbing. Could've spared the children at least.
• Kingdom of Azeroth? Wasn't it retconned in Warcraft 2 as Kingdom of Stormwind and Azeroth being the continent?
• Could you also change the subfolders in the zip as Chapters 01 - 04 than Chapters One - Four? The alphabet order messes it up

Kingdom of Azeroth - actually I wanted to put more wc2 ingame, but I constantly do compromises with WOW. Please let me save at least something of non-retconned lore.
Regarding kids - I though community was dissapointed when in reforged blizz made them invoulnerable. In warcraft 2 orcs were brutish... cruel and bloodthirsty.
Regarding duck - we will make reforged version in the final release.

 

[Moonman]

You are right, Chapter Four is very cruel, not very PG12.
This is the thing, whatever was changed by Blizzard for Thrall's goodboy Horde was not a thing before. Orcs were absolute monsters, and the whole war was a species vs species conquest for survival.
Even though it's a game, even I felt wrong killing those civilians (damn, I made some of their models, kinda felt like killing my creation). But see it as motivation for attacking orcs when you play as Humans.

 

[Tamplier777]

Hotfixes:

+ Utok's ability renamed to Self heal with fixed tooltip
+ Chapters renamed in map info to Chapter 01-04 instead of chapter one for better sorting in maps folder
+ Added Towers on the shore in mission 04
+ Mission 01 - second goldmine will be hidden in cliffs until humans arrival
+ Mission 02 - trolls conversations - fixed long pauses between quotes
+ Mission 02 - fixed capital letters in quest requirements

 

[Ardenaso]

Regarding kids - I though community was dissapointed when in reforged blizz made them invoulnerable. In warcraft 2 orcs were brutish... cruel and bloodthirsty.

I'd think of make them not aligned to the enemy and make them neutral to be attackable still like Stratholme; win-win for those who wants to be bad but not actually bad, and those who wants to do 100% clean sweep

Orcs were absolute monsters, and the whole war was a species vs species conquest for survival.
Even though it's a game, even I felt wrong killing those civilians (damn, I made some of their models, kinda felt like killing my creation). But see it as motivation for attacking orcs when you play as Humans.

It was kinda contradicting to the literally final statement about "honor", I also got the idea that the Orcs were already losing their bloodthirstiness when Gul'dan's warlocks were destroyed and when Orgrimm wanted to remove the Shadow Council from power

but then again, I'd prefer to make them neutral attackable to be attackable still.

Also, I like how the heroes' items and exp carries over to the next chapter; how did you do that on separate maps without save/load funtion?

Also (2), for those using Quenching Mod, I'd strongly recommend turning off water transparency

 

[Tamplier777]

I'd think of make them not aligned to the enemy and make them neutral to be attackable still like Stratholme; win-win for those who wants to be bad but not actually bad, and those who wants to do 100% clean sweep



It was kinda contradicting to the literally final statement about "honor", I also got the idea that the Orcs were already losing their bloodthirstiness when Gul'dan's warlocks were destroyed and when Orgrimm wanted to remove the Shadow Council from power

but then again, I'd prefer to make them neutral attackable to be attackable still.

Also, I like how the heroes' items and exp carries over to the next chapter; how did you do that on separate maps without save/load funtion?

Also (2), for those using Quenching Mod, I'd strongly recommend turning off water transparency

1. Will think how to handle kids in triggers.
2. Game cache trigger function that is used for any custom campaign.

 

[HellFriend]

Hey guys. I just comleted your campaing so I wanted share my opinion.
Excelent work I must admit. Texture of reworked building looks amazing. Campaing was surprisly welcoming to player who never played W2 so even if you make a mistake you could continue without restart.
Dabing was really good but some of voices has really bad sound like from microhone for 0,5€/$. But in each map was ensuring that it will be change so I didnt pay attention to it so much
But in each work can be found a mistakes. Didn't know where to report this 3 bugs/mistakes.

First is you secondary hero Utok. His healing sell has wrong tooltip where you can see healing
Healing wounds
Heals units for 0 hit points over 0 seconds.
AND CAN BE USED ONLY FOR HIMSELF. DOES NOT HEAL OVER TIME BUT INSTANTLY 500HP

Second in first map there is a thing humans show up when you have stocked 20 000 gold. But if you scout area first you will new about gold mine so you will ofc set up a second base. And there is a problem when you have second base before 20k gold and you will reach this checkpoint in cinematic you can see like 3 humans talk between themself and didn't care about your base or your units but other humans soldier fight with you IN CINEMATIC it was really funny to watch ubt by my mind it should not work this way

For third in 3rd mission where you collect oil your collectors can return cargo of oil only to your Closest shipyard. It didn't make sense for me and make my life a little more complicated because some of the collectors for unknow reason go to another shipyard and stuck there do nothing. If it good dont know but it would be great place here warning about that it can save a lot of trouble while players would figure this problem.


THANK YOU FOR GOOD WORK, CANNOT WAIT FOR ANOTHER MAPS

 

[IIICatalystIII]

Chapter1-

If you build buildings on the above and left of the northern campfire, where the human buildings spawn, their buildings will be on top of yours.

You can build your great hall right next to the pile of rubble that eventually exposes a mine after the humans arrive. This allows you to only need a few peons to maximize gold output on this mine.
Side note on this, the main base(southern) goldmine exploded before the humans came, gives me a feeling it is possible to not have enough gold to build a great hall on the north goldmine by the time the humans arrive. Testing this, looks like humans come based on resources gathered. (Suggestion) Why not have it timed, unless the player reaches the 30k & 30k before the timer expires, then spawn the humans.

Additionally, why not have the mine be where the wolves are? Makes it so you cannot utilize the mine unless the wolf lair is destroyed. Or the restrict the map use to the most northern view of the map is the most northern wolf spawn. Then have the map unrestricted once the humans spawn. There should be enough wood around.

If Rend dies during this mission, he is not shown during the final animation, but you can still win.
If Utok dies, no affect, he is still in the final animation, and items drop. Not sure if this effects chapter 2.
Alternatively, why not have a resurrection stone, or a voice saying X unit has fallen in battle and is brought back to base, wait some time and they respawn at the southern great hall. Or make it if either die you fail the mission.

Pigfarm counter continues to show how many you have built, assuming the counter is intended to go away after 6?

Side thoughts, the map is pretty bland. It is a huge improvement from WC2 design, but compare the first 2 missions of the Orc prologue. There is tons of areas to explore, sometimes with items which may be vital for future levels, like health pots. I feel you've given yourself a large canvas and filled it with trees. It could be a great way to introduce other stories like goblins, trolls, or even golems. For much of the mission I was sitting there not doing anything with these units. In the WC3 campaigns this is almost never the case since there is a lot of beneficial exploration via killing units for items or exp.

 

[ShadiHD]

thank you guys for your constant reports, we're constantly taking notes and post quick fixes to insure a decent play through! we're closely monitoring bug reports and suggestions

 

[Nether_Drake]

This looks really great, thank you for this project! Looking forward to seeing models of Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar and Kurdran.

 

[Linaze]

I had the opportunity to play the first map so far (will update this post with more thoughts if/when I play more missions):

• Overall the map looks great in terms of models, art, loading screen. All that stuff, kudos.
• There were some relatively wonky tooltips (I will not list them all but you'd benefit from taking a round and fixing a number of them)
• The first map while good-looking struck me as incredibly boring. For 90% of the time I just sat there watching my peons harvest way too much gold and lumber while doing virtually nothing. The wolf raids and humans were super easy to defeat as well so they didn't add much interactivity aside from a-moving to their location. I would consider making the map considerably harder (Wc3 is hardly a new game and people know how to order units around by now) and/or lowering the harvesting quotas.

Overall an interesting map with a lot of potential. I'll try to get back to you on the other missions as well.

 

[Zulmalis]

hey guys! great work soo far , i've been really happy when i woke up and saw your job on wowhead.
as for myself i downaloaded the maps and everytime i try to open them ( i got reforged) it dosen't work , it says : error
i've tryed to open themn from the editor aswell and the result is the same

 

[Moonman]

hey guys! great work soo far , i've been really happy when i woke up and saw your job on wowhead.
as for myself i downaloaded the maps and everytime i try to open them ( i got reforged) it dosen't work , it says : error
i've tryed to open themn from the editor aswell and the result is the same

The maps are protected, you have to open them via single player custom game.
If you downloaded Reforged just now, people are reporting issues with custom assets alround, you'll have to probably restart PC and wait some some hidden patch.
I've playtested on every setting in HD, models and game works.

 

[Tamplier777]

hey guys! great work soo far , i've been really happy when i woke up and saw your job on wowhead.
as for myself i downaloaded the maps and everytime i try to open them ( i got reforged) it dosen't work , it says : error
i've tryed to open themn from the editor aswell and the result is the same

put maps in folder Documents/Warcraft3/Maps and find them in single player mode

 

[Zulmalis]

put maps in folder Documents/Warcraft3/Maps and find them in single player mode

thanks for the help, i've did as you said as i usually do for the custom maps and started it in single player mode but nothing.
i will restart my pc and see if anything changes

 

[BloodGem64]

I'll have to try this out. I saw an article online about the map and was confused that I hadn't heard about it yet.

 

[The_Warchief]

Well I've played through the first three missions thus far (got rekt on the fourth because I didn't build my navy and defenses fast enough so I'm taking a break) and I must say I am very impressed!! I can't wait to see where this goes and what the final release looks like.

Here's a list of things I noticed/thought of as I was playing, in terms of things that might need some tweaking.

Spoiler: Click Me!

- Utok being a shaman is a very interesting choice from a lore perspective. Zuluhed was supposedly the only "functional" shaman left within the Horde by the time of the Second War, and it is assumed that he was what we have come to know as a Dark Shaman: a shaman who forces the elements to do his bidding rather than ask. Thrall was the first new orcish shaman in a long time, according to Drek'thar in Lord of the Clans. Is Utok being the second of the only two shamans within the Horde something that is going to be explained and addressed, or was that an oversight/lore change on the part of the team?

- I have to say that the introductory dialogue in the missions feels clunky. I love the ol' Warcraft II debriefings as much as the next guy, but it's hard to make it work in the context of Dal'rend and Utok talking to each other, especially when Dal'rend says things that imply Utok is the one in charge of a particular mission. You may want to consider tweaking/rewriting some of those dialogues to make them feel a little more natural and make Dal'rend's position as the chieftain and leader a bit more clear.

- Why is Dal'Rend, a Chieftain of the Black Tooth Grin Clan, commanding only Blackrock Clan troops? If memory serves, the majority of the orc campaign in Warcraft II had you playing as the Black Tooth Grin, with black team color.

- Had a weird issue where sometimes characters' mouths moved when they talked and sometimes they didn't. In the first mission, for example, Dal'rend's mouth moved during his cutscene dialogue but not with his unit response quotes. In the second mission, the exact opposite happened. I don't know if this is just a general issue with Reforged or if there's something you can do to fix it at this point.

- The pacing feels just a -touch- slow at certain points, imo, even taking into account the desire for a slower pace you mentioned in the description. Most notably, the first mission can drag a bit in the start when you're building up the pig farms and then again at the end when you're just waiting to hit those resource goals. Lumber is particularly slow. Maybe you could consider reducing the number of required pig farms to 4 and making the goal 30k gold but only 15 or 20k lumber?

- Some missiles on units are completely silent, like the Destroyer cannonballs. There's no launch boom, no explosion on hit, it's kind of trippy, haha. Elven/Human archers also didn't seem to have arrow launch sounds, although they did make sounds on hitting. I think Zul'jin's poisoned axe also was silent until it hit, which is weird for a relatively slow-moving projectile like that.

- I appreciate abilities being set up with the QWER scheme, but I would love it if the same scheme was applied to unit training/upgrades and peons' building menus. Speaking of peons, why is their icon all the way off to the right instead of being the first button on the left? Throws me off every time I look at it, haha.

- Differentiating the naval units of the orcs and humans a little more would be a welcome addition, at least for me. I know everything was direct parallels in Warcraft II, but it seems you've changed that up a bit with the stats of the basic barracks units (I might be mistaken on that, didn't check in-depth), at least, so it'd be nice if the ships got a bit of love, too.

- As others have mentioned, tooltips are a bit of an issue currently. On a related note, making sure to properly capitalize words in things like tooltips and quest descriptions and making sure to use proper punctuation can help make things look a bit more professional. I noticed at least one or two instances of run-on sentences in some quest texts.

Hope at least some of that is helpful! Most of those are nitpicks, really. All-in-all, it's very good, especially for a demo! Keep up the good work!!

 

[ShadiHD]

thank you so much for your input, this is exactly the type of feedback we're looking for, bugs and unintended gameplay halts are bound to happen like the lip-sync which randomly breaks at some points, sadly this purely blizzard's fault and at this stage its not in our power to find a proper fix for it.

- Utok being a dark shaman is within the established lore, during the course of the campaign you'll see his advancement in leading the Orcs, he was an established leader that accompanied many famous Orcs during the course of the war.

- regarding the dialogue, I believe @Tamplier777 wanted to pay homage to the original game and made sure that only the first 4 missions have tidbits from the original WC2 orc briefing, so the rest of the campaign will have a coherent dialogue between characters and how events unfold.

- Dal'Rend and Maim led both Blackrocks and Blacktooth Grin unto battle during the course of the war, the Blacktooth is more of an Elite Cadre of Blackrocks, so technically they ARE Blackrocks, which is why it's reaonsable for Rend to lead them and command them, under Doomhammer of course.

- the pacing of Mission 1 is being worked on, except some changes soon.

- Naval units and their sounds are still being worked on, a lot of stuff is still WIP, same with abilities.

- the text spelling and punctuation is being closely monitored, we're fixing it as we go.

 

[abkhaz7]

Wow, basically the first campaign in the campaign section made for Reforged (along with Spoon's 2p series and Insanemonster's prologue remake). Pretty neat. Congrats to all the people working hard on this project.

Hi! I'm new here. Could you tell me please how I can play this demo? I've downloaded the files, now should I put them somewhere in?

 

[Ardenaso]

Hi! I'm new here. Could you tell me please how I can play this demo? I've downloaded the files, now should I put them somewhere in?

Documents Warcraft III Maps Download

 

[The_Warchief]

Utok being a dark shaman is within the established lore, during the course of the campaign you'll see his advancement in leading the Orcs, he was an established leader that accompanied many famous Orcs during the course of the war.

My apologies, I wasn't aware Utok was an established character within the lore! It's been a long time since I've read the manuals front to back, so I completely forgot about his involvement.

regarding the dialogue, I believe @Tamplier777 wanted to pay homage to the original game and made sure that only the first 4 missions have tidbits from the original WC2 orc briefing, so the rest of the campaign will have a coherent dialogue between characters and how events unfold.

Fair enough! I would still recommend tweaking the dialogue just a smidge, personally. Even something so simple as having Dal'rend say "We must" instead of "You must."

Dal'Rend and Maim led both Blackrocks and Blacktooth Grin unto battle during the course of the war, the Blacktooth is more of an Elite Cadre of Blackrocks, so technically they ARE Blackrocks, which is why it's reaonsable for Rend to lead them and command them, under Doomhammer of course.

True! I guess I just always saw it as the player's units in the original campaign ARE supposed to be an elite cadre, considering the important missions they are given and the fact that they got their orders from Doomhammer directly, so it made sense to me why they were Black Tooth Grin as opposed to Blackrock. xP I'm sure y'all have your plans, though, and that the Black Tooth boys will come in soon enough!

-the pacing of Mission 1 is being worked on, except some changes soon.

- Naval units and their sounds are still being worked on, a lot of stuff is still WIP, same with abilities.

- the text spelling and punctuation is being closely monitored, we're fixing it as we go.

All very fair. Demo is demo, after all! I figured most of this stuff would be on the radar already, but that it didn't hurt to bring up just in case.

 

[Malistroth]

The size of the buildings and some units is too big.
Why not to use the wc3 economy?
Why make the maps protected?

30000 wood is too much and too boring to collect.

 

[IIICatalystIII]

- Dal'Rend and Maim led both Blackrocks and Blacktooth Grin unto battle during the course of the war, the Blacktooth is more of an Elite Cadre of Blackrocks, so technically they ARE Blackrocks, which is why it's reaonsable for Rend to lead them and command them, under Doomhammer of course.

This is what has me confused about Chapter 1 from a lore perspective. Rend and Maim are the top lieutenants, always by Ogrim's side. They were involved in the invasion of Hillsbrad, saving Zul'jin, Hinterpeaks, and the burning of Quel'thalas, only to take the bulk of the BTG to kill Gul'dan. This was the first time they left Ogrim. They were always with him so they could not betray him by splitting the Horde.

Zul'dare was the primary naval island for the Horde. In the manual is explains Utok and an unknown leader were there. The unknown leader could be dismissed, but Rend still doesn't 100% fit, Varok Saurfang would.

Varok was the second in command of the Horde at this time and frequently was off doing other side battles. If the unknown leader is dismissed, Varok makes more sense to have on Zul'dare. But if unknown leader is kept in, then only Utok should be there.

Imo I am splitting hairs, but if we're shooting for complete accuracy, those two make more sense.

Edit: editing why it's splitting hairs, because pragmatically too many characters may be introduced or awkwardly introduced if you don't already know the story . I think from a lore and player perspective it is and feels fine, it just isn't 100% accurate but definitely acceptable.

 

[rcshaggy]

Got to say I do really enjoy it a whole lot...

Chapter One;
Interesting that the map changes after you do a certain quest, and having the map to be a little bigger and different would be nice...
Kinda like the map itself could be changed to so we can see on how the Orcs get to the next area of the Campaign...
And had no issues since I made my base after the Humans shown up and killed them and made my base...Would be better for them if they got a Hero Unit and some other units...Can make a army of Grunts and wiped them out easily...
The resource gathering was a little much to be honest too...Felt really boring after killing the stuff on the map and would be more interesting if the map was slightly larger and a way to go to the next area and leading up there...

Chapter Two;
Pretty great re-using the Reforged content for this map and I enjoyed this map way much better.
In my own Campaign (When I was working on it...It's cancelled now), but I planned on putting the maps together and just had a large map...
Kinda like you do certain tasks and get your forces strong and go attack the enemy faction and whatever side you are playing...
I do love the Horde too, but really interested to see the other side of this Campaign if you ever get to it...
But it was fun and seeing the forces actually have life was really interesting...

Chapter Three;
Haven't really played it myself, but it does look good...From what I seen and it was interesting seeing the Oil Resource...

Chapter Four;
Another I hardly played, but I looked at the map and got to say it was interesting...
Do hope we get a good named hero for the other faction Campaign...


Besides that mumbling I actually enjoyed the Campaign and it has potential to be something more than my Campaign was...

If you need ideas then you can use more of the Reforged models that Blizzard gladly updated, which I honestly like more and the Ogres are way much better too.
Could use the one-headed as Brutes and just us the two-heads for Casters...

And even the Hidden Models would be useful to if you need them...
Wish I could rate and favorite this too since I enjoyed it like I said...

 

[IIICatalystIII]

Chapter 2-

Having this be the mission be the one to need to make 6 grunts doesn't feel like it fits. In Chapter 1 we needed to deal with a wolf invasion and a human invasion. With a quest requirement of 6 grunts, with Urtok and Rend, it feels like that is all the soldiers you need to beat the mission. In Chapter 1 it also only wants you to build a barracks, never says anything about making grunts, but you could say that is implied. Because in Chapter 2 there is a quest to make grunts, it no longer feels like making the grunts in chapter 1 was even implied or even necessary.

Also because of this quest requirement of 6 grunts, it feels like that is all the grunts needed to beat this mission, but it isn't even enough grunts, with Rend and Urtok, to beat down the front gate because the towers and archers will rip you apart. Instead why not have Chapter 1 be the mission to build up the 6 grunts, and in Chapter 2 just have Build up a force to free the Forest Trolls, having that requirement completed once Zul'jin if free. It gives the player freedom to say how much is needed without implying what is good enough.

The Gnoll camp in the north east is very narrow and closed for as many units there are. Opposite of this, the murloc camp feels appropriately open for the amount of units there are.

The swamp area is very open, but much of it is unused or nonbeneficial. For example the Monstrosity never aggroed my army, we just walked right by it. This does the same with the humans hiding behind rocks in the swamp. I could not see them and my units did not trigger them. This could be a good useful skip if the player knows what they are doing, but doesn't feel intended. A Example of useful skipping is the Human mission The Cult of the Damned; the player can either build up a base and fight it out which takes about 30min, or have Arthas divine shield straight to Kel'thuzad and win in about 2min. A great example of a swamp area is the NE campaign mission The Druids Arise. Going through the swamp is quick and easy, but feels dangerous, but exploring it is even more dangerous, but very beneficial.

The humans near the Forest Trolls in the south also triggered pretty late. My entire army passed right by them before they attacked me, in fact Zul'jin was already in the base. Maybe their trigger should be earlier? Could also be triggered to attack the Troll camp the same time you arrive, as if you saved Zul'jin and the troll base.

Trees. There are a lot of trees that fill up the map for seemingly no purpose because there is plenty of trees for wood around the base already. I really like the idea of hiding that sasquatch camp behind the troll camp. The Chapter itself flows pretty well, but having that much empty space is out of place, could easily be filled with others things like bandits, more sasquatches, dwarves, etc. Could even make a secret passage so avoid the swamp and go through the safe forest.

On the Map it shows an Amani camp north of Durnholde Keep, but in the game it has the camp be southwest of the Durnholde keep, are we not talking about the same camp?