Chronicles of the Second War: Tides of Darkness

[Khazmo]

I've had a lot of issues with this. First of all it said the archive was corrupt when trying to convert it using winrar. To get around this I had to download on another PC, unpack it (somehow!), repack it and send it over to my gaming PC where it was unpacked. Unfortunately, when I tried to load the maps ingame I got a message saying "Unit data missing or invalid"

I'm using Reforged.

 

[tulee]

Youtube promotion video's 4 main type of comments.

 

[lichao001486]

Good job.

 

[Anaxie]

Youtube promotion video's 4 main type of comments.

Sums it up nicely.

Idiots still hating reforged.

Really only issue is them getting missing features back eventually.

I play multiplayer with classic settings but... still. The online community is more active now which is nice.

 

[Tamplier]

The size of the buildings and some units is too big.
Why not to use the wc3 economy?
Why make the maps protected?

30000 wood is too much and too boring to collect.

1. WC3 building scale is silly. Tower that is slightly bigger than footman? do you want this?
In WC3 wolfrider looks like a child comparing to grunt.
Scaling of units is out of discussion. It will not be as silly as in WC3.

2. Because this is reforging of WC2, we use WC2 economy, not WC3. And We will not change that.

3. Boring? When Grom was collecting wood was that boring? We could adjust that a bit, but imho people are a bit spoiled with WOW and SC2. Check the original WC2 with its game tempo.

 

[Lone_Wolf_2021]

WTF!!!

700mb?

that's large bro.

 

[Tamplier]

This is what has me confused about Chapter 1 from a lore perspective. Rend and Maim are the top lieutenants, always by Ogrim's side. They were involved in the invasion of Hillsbrad, saving Zul'jin, Hinterpeaks, and the burning of Quel'thalas, only to take the bulk of the BTG to kill Gul'dan. This was the first time they left Ogrim. They were always with him so they could not betray him by splitting the Horde.

Zul'dare was the primary naval island for the Horde. In the manual is explains Utok and an unknown leader were there. The unknown leader could be dismissed, but Rend still doesn't 100% fit, Varok Saurfang would.

Varok was the second in command of the Horde at this time and frequently was off doing other side battles. If the unknown leader is dismissed, Varok makes more sense to have on Zul'dare. But if unknown leader is kept in, then only Utok should be there.

Imo I am splitting hairs, but if we're shooting for complete accuracy, those two make more sense.

Edit: editing why it's splitting hairs, because pragmatically too many characters may be introduced or awkwardly introduced if you don't already know the story . I think from a lore and player perspective it is and feels fine, it just isn't 100% accurate but definitely acceptable.

It was tough decisions to arrange herous through out the campaign. In the campaign it is not 100% equal to lore. In the books there was not specific attachments of herous to wc2 missions.
The plot is written, herous assigned to chapters and this will hardly be changed.

You will face Maim in ACT2

Horde has too many herous to play already. So Utok is a Unit. When in the original wc2 score screen you see your rank - its Utoks rank. He is a Grunt. He was shaman in the past. I envisioned him as a grunt captain that was promoted during the campaign. And traveled with different herous and recorded their progress. The team convinced me to give him weakened shaman abilities cuz elements and spirits left the Horde after orc embrace fel.

WTF!!!

700mb?

that's large bro.

Campaign will weight 1.5 GB at least.
Sound files and textures and models are heavy.

 

[Tamplier]

WTF!!!

700mb?

that's large bro.

Campaign will weight 1.5 GB at least.
Sound files and textures and models are heavy.

 

[Anaxie]

Campaign will weight 1.5 GB at least.
Sound files and textures and models are heavy.

I suggest ziping the upload then.

Size will should go down anyway when it can be a campaign and not single maps. One would hope the classic team arent so incompetant that they cant manage to reenable customs before this project completes a full campaign or 2

As for the lumber comparison to groms.

What does that have to do woth WoW or Sc2. Awful comparison collecting an absurd amount of lumber offers no relevant gameplay.

In groms mission the amount wasnt even high conaidering you can kill 5 tree of lifes for 15k lumber and can easily get 5 shredders that net you 1k lumber a min.

Easy solution? Destroy alliance forces when they spawn. Wabam mega lumber cache drop. Simple.

Afking to hit the cap offers nothing to anyone and its not to admire graphics isnt an acceptable reason when the projects goala are the 4 massive campaigns. And im sure if quality is up to snuff these will be regularly replayed.

I havnt played yet but im not sure why you would oversize steuctures because of its comparison to units.

First and foremost youre making and rts campaign not an rpg story mod.

My opinion

 

[Tamplier]

I suggest ziping the upload then.

Size will should go down anyway when it can be a campaign and not single maps. One would hope the classic team arent so incompetant that they cant manage to reenable customs before this project completes a full campaign or 2

As for the lumber comparison to groms.

What does that have to do woth WoW or Sc2. Awful comparison collecting an absurd amount of lumber offers no relevant gameplay.

In groms mission the amount wasnt even high conaidering you can kill 5 tree of lifes for 15k lumber and can easily get 5 shredders that net you 1k lumber a min.

Easy solution? Destroy alliance forces when they spawn. Wabam mega lumber cache drop. Simple.

Afking to hit the cap offers nothing to anyone and its not to admire graphics isnt an acceptable reason when the projects goala are the 4 massive campaigns. And im sure if quality is up to snuff these will be regularly replayed.

So what do you want? complete it 10 minutes?
Even with current amount it took me 21 minutes to finish mission.

 

[abkhaz7]

Documents Warcraft III Maps Download

Thanks!

 

[Anaxie]

So what do you want? complete it 10 minutes?
Even with current amount it took me 21 minutes to finish mission.

I dont know what the gather rates are just that i saw a 30k number. I get you want people on map l9nger maybe to deal with alliance appearing. Why not just make their destruction the main objective.

Newbies arent playing a custom mod first. I think they get the basic down to where a resource goal for starter map should be irrelevant unless its related to the oil system which isnt until ch3 i believe.

21 minutes isnt long of course. But for the simplicity of the first mission i would say it is.

For reference i can fully destroy both undead bases in Arthas 30 min defense mission in 20 mins+ogres+caravan, King Arthas TFT mission takes about 25 mins. Compare the magnitude of that task to this starter mission of this remake. Seems kind of dull no?

 

[Tamplier]

I dont know what the gather rates are just that i saw a 30k number. I get you want people on map l9nger maybe to deal with alliance appearing. Why not just make their destruction the main objective.

Newbies arent playing a custom mod first. I think they get the basic down to where a resource goal for starter map should be irrelevant unless its related to the oil system which isnt until ch3 i believe.

Ok I will collect suggestions to retweak the map in final release. But humans arrival is a surprise so orcs should have some default quest for the beginning. Big amount of resources was needed to prepare for the upcoming war.

 

[Anaxie]

Ok I will collect suggestions to retweak the map in final release. But humans arrival is a surprise so orcs should have some default quest for the beginning. Big amount of resources was needed to prepare for the upcoming war.

Well of course storywise the lumber could be written in dialogue that its obviously for their invasion ships. Again i havnt played yet i dont know the gather rates or if 10wc3 lumber =100 in your mod. Im not aware.

But for some a first mission like that could turn some people off.

I see what you guys were aiming for though you wanted people to be comfy sitting themselves in for the lumber grind before the alliance surprise. It works. Its smart design. isnt there a way to add a trigger that adds an additional objective to main quest?

Thats how to keep surprise and illusion of the quest being simple say collect 30k lumber. But really 30k doesnt matter its not even being tracked track a number around half that to trigger the alliance invasion and then the mission objective switches gears.

That would be a fairly better start to the campaign. With the change in tempo you could even beef the alliance up a tad bit more in the invasion.

I have faith in the team.

For a wc3 interpretation of the old games i STRONGLY encourage your team to look over this campaign which is a mission for mission remake of wc1 orc campaign. Its still one of the finest campaigns ever made. Sadly unfinished and not even widely known because of its unassuming name.

I strongly encourage checking out some techniques this literal one hit wonder creator managed to do in his map and mission design.

First half of campaign can be brutal though.

Orcs & Humans: Orc Missions (ALPHA)

In the end its not just shiny graphics thats gonna make your campaign an masterpiece.

But from what ive seen and read. Im positive what is finished will be one of those all time great mustplays or hell even the reason people begin purchasing reforged.

Hopefully its finished but ill wait on a campaign by campaign basis because only the most dedicated can finish 4 campaigns.

Not everyone is a Shar Dundred or a Razorclaw_X levels of dedication

Ill judge your campaign primarily on map and gameplay design. Graphics and impressive models are nice to a certain point. But its not what makes a timeless game/mod

I play shit like morrowind, wc3, dungeon keeper, baldurs gate, and trails in the sky despite having a gaming backlog of unplayed games worth more than a new car
< backlog 50ish played / out of over 1,200 and thats just steam

Send help!>

 

[Stormvarsel29]

I can't wait to play this.

 

[IIICatalystIII]

I suggest ziping the upload then.

Size will should go down anyway when it can be a campaign and not single maps. One would hope the classic team arent so incompetant that they cant manage to reenable customs before this project completes a full campaign or 2

As for the lumber comparison to groms.

What does that have to do woth WoW or Sc2. Awful comparison collecting an absurd amount of lumber offers no relevant gameplay.

In groms mission the amount wasnt even high conaidering you can kill 5 tree of lifes for 15k lumber and can easily get 5 shredders that net you 1k lumber a min.

Easy solution? Destroy alliance forces when they spawn. Wabam mega lumber cache drop. Simple.

Afking to hit the cap offers nothing to anyone and its not to admire graphics isnt an acceptable reason when the projects goala are the 4 massive campaigns. And im sure if quality is up to snuff these will be regularly replayed.

I havnt played yet but im not sure why you would oversize steuctures because of its comparison to units.

First and foremost youre making and rts campaign not an rpg story mod.

My opinion

So what do you want? complete it 10 minutes?
Even with current amount it took me 21 minutes to finish mission.

I disagree, I think it's an appropriate amount of wood, however it requires 12-18 peons cutting wood to finish this mission in a reasonable time.
The real problem is the player is asked to watch their peons to cut wood because there is nothing better to do. It's boring.

The Grom mission forced you to be constantly do something to survive while the shredders did their thing. You had to attack/defend against 3 NE bases, and a bunch or creep camps. Attacking was your primary form of getting gold.

In the Chapter 1 mission there isn't a lot to do, so it feels too long. In actuality there may need to be more to do.

 

[ShadiHD]

we're taking feedback on how to improve the first mission, at the end we want to reach a point where we satisfy at least the majority if not all, we want people to enjoy this and appreciate our vision on how this story unfolds, even if some elements were met with mixed feelings, don't rush to conclusion people, wait till you see what we have in store for this game, I promise this, you will not be disappointed.

 

[Venombite]

Looks impressive. Just a comment to give a like, aka 5 stars.

 

[Raddazong]

You have done an amazing job! Can't wait for the other missions! I applaud you!

 

[SantaBla]

I was expecting actual Warcraft 2 music like the ones I heard in the trailer but only got Warcraft 3 music. Are there plans to add the tracks to the maps? Also, I find the maps a little small for the battles to properly take place. There are too many trees everywhere and the giant buildings don't help. I also saw typos here and there but I assume these will be fixed in the final release.

Those are my critiques, but keep up the good work. I'm really looking forward to playing the rest.

 

[Tamplier]

I was expecting actual Warcraft 2 music like the ones I heard in the trailer but only got Warcraft 3 music. Are there plans to add the tracks to the maps? Also, I find the maps a little small for the battles to properly take place. There are too many trees everywhere and the giant buildings don't help. I also saw typos here and there but I assume these will be fixed in the final release.

Those are my critiques, but keep up the good work. I'm really looking forward to playing the rest.

We didn't put music cuz in mission 04 it would exceed 255 mb map size and it won't be playable. In final version there will be wc2 music.

Regarding map sizes - it won't be changed. I will try to add some space for camps.

 

[ShadiHD]

I was expecting actual Warcraft 2 music like the ones I heard in the trailer but only got Warcraft 3 music. Are there plans to add the tracks to the maps? Also, I find the maps a little small for the battles to properly take place. There are too many trees everywhere and the giant buildings don't help. I also saw typos here and there but I assume these will be fixed in the final release.

Those are my critiques, but keep up the good work. I'm really looking forward to playing the rest.

WC2 remastered music is available, will be included in final release

 

[antontama]

THIS IS AWASAMEEE!
Thank you gus for this! I can't say how much I enjoyed going through this campaign with mere words... Thank you for doing this!

 

[Tamplier]

Hotfixes:

+ Oil negative values fix
+ Oil UI warning added (Insufficient Oil)
+ Chapter 02 path spacing and trees cosmetic fix
+ Chapter 02 Rend hidden when cinematic skipped fix
+ Chapter 03 tent cosmetic fix

And awesome new logo from @MrGoblin

 

[Antonio Azevedo]

Got a crash when starting Chapter03 =(

 

[Reaver]

As I have already mention on my first comment, I don't have bought WC3 Reforged but I have found this video so I can give my feedback about the maps.

General thoughts about the campaign:
- I like the color for Lordaeron. Instead of blue, Lordaeron is light blue so you can distinguish the Nation of Azeroth (Stormwind forces) and the Nation of Lordaeron. Good choice.
- I don't know if this was already made in Reforged ma did you guys made your own version of Winter maps? I don't know why but I found the winter maps very detailed. Probably the layout of the maps are very well organized.
- The peons/peasants moves too slow imo. They just need to move a little, just a little, faster because slow peons/peasants makes the economy slower and slow economy makes a slow game because it takes time to build an army.

Now moving on the chapters.

Chapter 1:
- Unfortunately, I found this chapter to be the worst in terms of be the beginner chapter for a "new player". I will explain in detail what I don't like of this chapter. Since this is the first chapter I expect to be this chapter an introduction to the game/story/campaign, or whatever you want to call, so the first mission should have only 1 or 2 main objectives and not an optional objective. I understand the optional objective is just "destroy the wolf's hideout" but since this is the first chapter I prefer to not have to worry about the base being attacked by wolfs. The wolfs can still be around but just don't let them to attack the base.
- The amount of resource (gold and lumber) is too much. Instead of 30000 on both resources I have thinking about 20000 for gold and 10000 for lumber.
- When the human forces arrived to the island, you (as the player) have to turn off the fire. Now I can only guess that if the time runs out the small human forces attacks you but then again since this is the first chapter I always prefer to not being attacked by anybody because this chapter is the first one and the player doesn't have to worry about anything that only build a base and take resources. Of course if I attack the human forces I expect them to attack me but only if I attack them.

Chapter 2:
- This is a good chapter for build an army and attack the enemy base. But the problem here is the enemy base is well defended and 6 grunts seems to be not enough for destroy the enemy base. So my suggestion is to make 9 grunts instead of 6 and make the 2 human guard towers at the gate watch towers.
- After you rescued Zul'jin the path for the forest troll base is hidden by trees and it's not clearly visible to the player. I don't know if you guys already fixed this but make the path clear after the destruction of the human base. The easiest way, imo, is to block the path with rocks and after the human base is destroyed the path becomes clear and visible.

Chapter 3:
- Not many problems I see here but the Oil Patch isn't clearly visible while in WC2 there is a visible black spot so you can already tell where to build. It's not bad your choice in making the spot visible but it doesn't mix the color with the water.
- The oil is few in this mission and also you have to be fast to build a Shipyard and make Troll destroyers for attack the Human Oil Rigs or else will be "Mission failed". Jokes apart the only thing it should be adjusted is the amount of oil in every spot. That's it.

Chapter 4:
- It is possible only to build 2 Oil rigs and that's it. I think two more Oil spots can be useful to make the player comfortable about having the chance to build more Oil rigs.
- Maybe this isn't important but I found weird to see the possibility to build a Blacksmith. As I remember, in WC2 it is possible to build the Blacksmith in chapter 5 but this was made because WC2 Tides of Darkness has almost every chapter as an introduction for a new unit and building.

Hope this feedback helps you guys to make the campaign better.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Wow this campaign has blown up around the (german) media. Big websites like PCGames.de and Gamestar.de are reporting about it.

 

[IIICatalystIII]

Chapter 2

Did some testing of different ways to beat this map.

1. There are no cliffs on the bottom of the map, just trees. By coordinating peons and having 16 peons chops the south end of the map, you can evade the front gate of Durnholde keep and enter from the back. The time it takes to chop down the trees on the south and kill everything on your way to the back of Durnholde, then bring Zul'jin to the troll camp took 19min and 19s.

2. Doing the mission normally, including killing all creep camps and everything along the pass to the troll camp took 14min and 36s.

3. Rend rushes to Zul'jin, entering through the gate before it closes, capturing Zul'jin by getting in range, then running Zul'jin to troll camp by evading all attackers took 1m and 37s. To fix this, either create an invisible wall that goes away when the front gate is destroyed, or only capture Zul'jin when one of the walls surrounding him are destroyed. Or make no changes, it is nice to be rewarded when you understand the mechanics of a map.

When it is night time the creeps are asleep, when passing by through the swamp it makes it easy to bypass creeps.

Edit:There is also a bug with Heavy Burdens. When a gold mine collapses, some of the peons will bring gold back. After they brought the gold back to base they still have the Heavy Burdens debuff. It can be removed by having the peon chop wood, but this doesn't seem intended.

 

[Gizzlow]

thank you very much for sharing this wonder

 

[JayBeee]

What do you do after you download it? I don't see any instructions and I can't find a folder to put the files in to show up in the game menu.

Thanks

 

[ShadiHD]

What do you do after you download it? I don't see any instructions and I can't find a folder to put the files in to show up in the game menu.

Thanks

place them in your Warcraft III\Maps\Download folder -> Start WC3, Single Player, Custom Game and enjoy!

 

[Reaver]

Wow this campaign has blown up around the (german) media. Big websites like PCGames.de and Gamestar.de are reporting about it.

It's not a surprise to me because WC2 was very popular in Germany back in the 90s.

3. Rend rushes to Zul'jin, entering through the gate before it closes, capturing Zul'jin by getting in range, then running Zul'jin to troll camp by evading all attackers took 1m and 37s. To fix this, either create an invisible wall that goes away when the front gate is destroyed, or only capture Zul'jin when one of the walls surrounding him are destroyed. Or make no changes, it is nice to be rewarded when you understand the mechanics of a map.

That's why I suggested putting invisible walls or rock walls so the player has to focus the attack on the base.

place them in your Warcraft III\Maps\Download folder -> Start WC3, Single Player, Custom Game and enjoy!

I suggest to put a section called "Instruction" so you guys can avoid explaining how to play the custom maps.

 

[Tamplier]

Chapter 2:
- This is a good chapter for build an army and attack the enemy base. But the problem here is the enemy base is well defended and 6 grunts seems to be not enough for destroy the enemy base. So my suggestion is to make 9 grunts instead of 6 and make the 2 human guard towers at the gate watch towers.

well I wanted it to be hard. Will think about increasing the amount of grunts to be trained.

 

[IIICatalystIII]

well I wanted it to be hard. Will think about increasing the amount of grunts to be trained.

Imo it could be harder. Right now the method is to build up a force and snowball through the base. Possibly add a timer like x minutes until zul'jin is escorted, to put some pressure on the player. The base itself feels appropriate.

 

[Nzoth]

You don't use the Reforged features. I didn't like the fact that oil is in the table. You can make sure that oil is located next to gold and wood.

 

[Tamplier]

You don't use the Reforged features. I didn't like the fact that oil is in the table. You can make sure that oil is located next to gold and wood.

We plan to implement that. I just need to consult with guys that know how to customize UI.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Question about storyline: Will there be alternate endings like original WC2 or will it all lead to one (current) canonical ending. Personally I'd prefer to have the single canonical ending with the orc victory as a secret/obvious alternate ending. We already have the WC2 campaign remake that copies WC2 as much as possible; I think this one should be the one that takes all current WC3/WoW events into account (which is what you are going for, from what I can see).

 

[Tamplier]

Question about storyline: Will there be alternate endings like original WC2 or will it all lead to one (current) canonical ending. Personally I'd prefer to have the single canonical ending with the orc victory as a secret/obvious alternate ending. We already have the WC2 campaign remake that copies WC2 as much as possible; I think this one should be the one that takes all current WC3/WoW events into account (which is what you are going for, from what I can see).

orcs campaign will end in tomb of sargaras. siege of lordaeron will be final cutscene. human. campaign will start from it. so dalaran and loradaeron mission of the original campaign will be transfered to human campaign, cuz orcs never won

 

[Malistroth]

Right now this looks very boring.
Gather 30000 gold and lumber, gather 10000 oil... I just don't want to waste my time doing nothing but waiting for thousands of resources to be gathered when alll enemies have been destroyed. It's just time killing. There is no gameplay. Bad game design.

Also I don't understand why the buildings and units are so big. Why can't you just keep the vanilla Warcraft 3 scaling style? This realism makesno sense.
Why do we need 3 heroes? It's too much. Yes, Utok is not a hero technically, but in fact he is. In mission 3 I just wiped the island with Zul'jin, Rend and Utok. Too easy. Make Utok or Rend the only hero we have + Zul'Jin.
Why don't you just use the Warcraft 3 economy?

 

[Venombite]

Wait so, is the plan to have the factions separated in some missions, e.g in Quel'thalas missions you fight against High Elves only, in Lordaeron against Lordaeron Humans, and against a broad Alliance only in some missions, or is it a Warcraft II Alliance vs (Old) Horde all the time?

 

[Tamplier]

Wait so, is the plan to have the factions separated in some missions, e.g in Quel'thalas missions you fight against High Elves only, in Lordaeron against Lordaeron Humans, and against a broad Alliance only in some missions, or is it a Warcraft II Alliance vs (Old) Horde all the time?

no spoilers man) you will see.

Right now this looks very boring.
Gather 30000 gold and lumber, gather 10000 oil... I just don't want to waste my time doing nothing but waiting for thousands of resources to be gathered when alll enemies have been destroyed. It's just time killing. There is no gameplay. Bad game design.

Also I don't understand why the buildings and units are so big. Why can't you just keep the vanilla Warcraft 3 scaling style? This realism makesno sense.
Why do we need 3 heroes? It's too much. Yes, Utok is not a hero technically, but in fact he is. In mission 3 I just wiped the island with Zul'jin, Rend and Utok. Too easy. Make Utok or Rend the only hero we have + Zul'Jin.
Why don't you just use the Warcraft 3 economy?

ok) then just play wc3. i understand that some people dont like wc2)

 

[_lycan]

Right now this looks very boring.
Gather 30000 gold and lumber, gather 10000 oil... I just don't want to waste my time doing nothing but waiting for thousands of resources to be gathered when alll enemies have been destroyed. It's just time killing. There is no gameplay. Bad game design.

Also I don't understand why the buildings and units are so big. Why can't you just keep the vanilla Warcraft 3 scaling style? This realism makesno sense.
Why do we need 3 heroes? It's too much. Yes, Utok is not a hero technically, but in fact he is. In mission 3 I just wiped the island with Zul'jin, Rend and Utok. Too easy. Make Utok or Rend the only hero we have + Zul'Jin.
Why don't you just use the Warcraft 3 economy?

you people clearly didn't play original warcraft 2, the game *was* boring, game should not follow the mission designs of the original but improve on it and add new stuff

 

[ShadiHD]

Right now this looks very boring.
Gather 30000 gold and lumber, gather 10000 oil... I just don't want to waste my time doing nothing but waiting for thousands of resources to be gathered when alll enemies have been destroyed. It's just time killing. There is no gameplay. Bad game design.

Also I don't understand why the buildings and units are so big. Why can't you just keep the vanilla Warcraft 3 scaling style? This realism makesno sense.
Why do we need 3 heroes? It's too much. Yes, Utok is not a hero technically, but in fact he is. In mission 3 I just wiped the island with Zul'jin, Rend and Utok. Too easy. Make Utok or Rend the only hero we have + Zul'Jin.
Why don't you just use the Warcraft 3 economy?

you're totally entitled to your opinion as is your right, but with this approach of criticism, we usually avoid it, because it seems you're adamant to not like what is presented no matter what we do, peace out

 

[IIICatalystIII]

Chapter 3

This is the most finished chapter so far.
The mission took 29min 55s because I didn't know what I needed, and that's not a bad thing!

The beginning island is well done, especially the explorable forest area makes it feel much more like a real forest, instead of the large patches of trees.

Ultimately I made way too many(18) destroyers which made the oil requirement take a long time. The only recommendation I have is to add a mission to create X amount of destroyers, but may not be necessary. There was a pack of 5 human destroyers that came for me, which was not a big deal since I had a large force, but if someone undershoots how many destroyers they need it might be too punishing, which is why I suggests the make X destroyers quest. But after this quest, if implemented, the holding hands quests should stop.

I think people are going to say that oil gathering takes long, and it does, but because it is a specialized resource I wouldn't change anything about it. I think If I redid the mission, knowing what I know now, I could probably beat it in 15min.
The mission is a big improvement from the WC2 version without deviating too much from the original campaign. A+ work.

 

[Anaxie]

orcs campaign will end in tomb of sargaras. siege of lordaeron will be final cutscene. human. campaign will start from it. so dalaran and loradaeron mission of the original campaign will be transfered to human campaign, cuz orcs never won

Thats good so theres no redundancy. And it would make cohersive story.

Plus how the battle of blackrock spire goes so it would be awful to lose haha.

Look forward to your orgrim and lothar fight cinematic. I presume it will be followed with turalyons charge as to not break the momentum of the moment before moving to the next mission

It might be a mistake or anticlinatic to end at the tomb though. Where is the alliance mission layout gonna be? Thats the turning point in the war missing a ton of plotpoints.

ok) then just play wc3. i understand that some people dont like wc2)

But tides of darkness didnt even have heroes.

You completely misunderstood his point.

This mod has about as much in common with Wc2 as resident evil 2 and its remake does. Aka not much .

Your response makes absolutely no sense to me.

you're totally entitled to your opinion as is your right, but with this approach of criticism, we usually avoid it, because it seems you're adamant to not like what is presented no matter what we do, peace out

Im gonna have to step in again

The over inflated economy requirements are weird. It is what it is and it will filter some people from an otherwise great campaign.

His statment on scale makes sense. This is first and foremost an rts not a rpg and wc3 has a shitty ass camera for zooming out as is. A lot of people are going to ask this

Too many heroes this early is important question because in every SINGLE campaign ive ever played 3 or more heroes makes an army an afterthought. Whereas in wc2 Botp they were strong but not something that could carry the fight solo especially with defeat conditions.

The war 3 economy+oil instead of wc2 economy makes literal no sense at this point. This is a wc2 interpreted in wc3. Its past the point of a 1-1 remake especially economy wise for even really being an argument to play wc3 if you dont like wc2..

He made valid points and dismissal of valid criticism like this if it becomes a trend reaks of ego and if it becomes the norm response to people could become the detriment to this entire project the team is doing.

He cared enough to play all the way through and gave his points he didnt 1/5 and give you a 1 liner response.

Let me be frank if want to play wc2 im STILL going to play the bnet edition.

This is not a replacement its an interpretation into wc3 mission format design with all the bells and whistles.

Just like aome people might like stuff like skywind mod for skyrim it will never replace morrowind because skywind is a shitty interpretation of morrowind in skyrim and wont ever be the real deal.
Or how new resident evil remakes wont ever EVER replace the ps1 versions because they are nothing alike in gameplay or experience.

I have hopes for this projects success but own what your making and accept what it is youre making. It certainly isnt traditional Wc2. Thats not a bad thing.

 

[ShadiHD]

- the scaling thing I tend to agree with, I've noted it with the team way before we released, some buildings could be indeed scaled down.
- the economy as we stated is a mixture of WC2 with WC3 elements, but we've given a slow buff to peons so you don't become a millionaire in 5 minutes,if you tried it you'd see that this buff did indeed halt that millionaire feeling and based on how many you train, you control the income you receive to the camp.
- Heroes inclusion are valid to story cohesion, remember that we still have hard mode, and some missions might lead people to break their keyboard to truly feel how hard WC2 was back in the day.
- I would suggest keeping an eye on the Updated Q&A often because we stated more than once that some of the elements of the missions have been retweaked and will be in future releases, we take feedback seriously.

at the end the issue here is not feedback, it's how you present it, tell me honestly, whose feedback you'd rather listen to and learn from, someone who gives you feedback professionally, or someone who vent at you and discredit your entire work and effort with words like bad game design without even finishing off the demoes at least or try the game themselves, remember, we are fans like you, we are not a registered company with a department full of developers, we do what we can, and we fix out those bugs and gameplay issues to the best of our abilities.

 

[Anaxie]

you're totally entitled to your opinion as is your right, but with this approach of criticism, we usually avoid it, because it seems you're adamant to not like what is presented no matter what we do, peace out

- the scaling thing I tend to agree with, I've noted it with the team way before we released, some buildings could be indeed scaled down.
- the economy as we stated is a mixture of WC2 with WC3 elements, but we've given a slow buff to peons so you don't become a millionaire in 5 minutes,if you tried it you'd see that this buff did indeed halt that millionaire feeling and based on how many you train, you control the income you receive to the camp.
- Heroes inclusion are valid to story cohesion, remember that we still have hard mode, and some missions might lead people to break their keyboard to truly feel how hard WC2 was back in the day.
- I would suggest keeping an eye on the Updated Q&A often because we stated more than once that some of the elements of the missions have been retweaked and will be in future releases, we take feedback seriously.

at the end the issue here is not feedback, it's how you present it, tell me honestly, whose feedback you'd rather listen to and learn from, someone who gives you feedback professionally, or someone who vent at you and discredit your entire work and effort with words like bad game design without even finishing off the demoes at least or try the game themselves, remember, we are fans like you, we are not a registered company with a department full of developers, we do what we can, and we fix out those bugs and gameplay issues to the best of our abilities.

Not everyones feedback will be professionally formatted but all feedback is valid unless its something like

Duuuur 1/5 too hard
So im still not understanding what youre selling.

Ya he said bad game design. It was pointed at the economy requirments while you literally go afk and make lunch. Id agree. His wording not being sayyyyy questionable game design doesnt change what will likely be a recurring issue with peoples first experience something i predicted a couple days ago.


Keep in mind too the world wide diversity among cultures on the hive and just different gam8ng habits.

Youre going to be getting feeback from old men all the way the high school teenagers.

Im an old fuck who prefers traditional classic gameplay. Hence why my ass has stuck with RTS games since fuckwits claimed hurrr mobas killed it play mobas

@Shar Dundred
Im sure shar one of youre core testers for this will agree. Feedback can be hit and miss but the feedback so far is better than some of the good majority of non helpful feedback from dumbshits.


Riiiiiight shar?


As an addition with blizzards new stacking of consumables. I would be wary and suggest setting them to single stacks. Not sure how you have it so far.

Otherwise if you have a single shop anywhere... well. Players would be obligated to stock up on 50+ items to keep to either boost gold in later missions or mega cheese.

Its a choice you can opt out of as a player. But youre just fucking yourself later when that mega mission comes knocking you can stockpile for.

Example in new reforged campaign i sell literally 35 scrolls of teleport for thousands of cold in the final undead mission at dalaran to steamroll the 3 mega camps which are pretty absurdly defended in reforged vs vanilla and steamroll the shit out of them. 20 mins before mission timer ends.

I did it in classic too but well 7 scrolls is quite a bit less then 35.

 

[Reaver]

well I wanted it to be hard. Will think about increasing the amount of grunts to be trained.

Thanks for the reply. Take it as a suggestion. You guys are the ones who control this project.

Imo it could be harder. Right now the method is to build up a force and snowball through the base. Possibly add a timer like x minutes until zul'jin is escorted, to put some pressure on the player. The base itself feels appropriate.

What about the timer to save Zul'jin be an optional objective? If the player rescue Zul'jin in time you get a good item.

Right now this looks very boring.
Gather 30000 gold and lumber, gather 10000 oil... I just don't want to waste my time doing nothing but waiting for thousands of resources to be gathered when alll enemies have been destroyed. It's just time killing. There is no gameplay. Bad game design.

Also I don't understand why the buildings and units are so big. Why can't you just keep the vanilla Warcraft 3 scaling style? This realism makesno sense.
Why do we need 3 heroes? It's too much. Yes, Utok is not a hero technically, but in fact he is. In mission 3 I just wiped the island with Zul'jin, Rend and Utok. Too easy. Make Utok or Rend the only hero we have + Zul'Jin.
Why don't you just use the Warcraft 3 economy?

I agree with only one statement which is the amount of LUMBER to get in the first mission. I prefer to just store 15000 lumber and that's it. For the rest I disagree with you. You probably never played WC2 but the economy in WC2 is faster than in WC3. If you have a right amount of peons you can get a great amount of money and lumber, if the peons moves a little faster, that's why I pointed this out to the devs. Having 3 heroes is a good way to make the player feel comfortable with the missions since those 4 missions are the "tutorial" missions. Also, those 3 heroes aren't really strong alone, you always need an army with them, unless you just bring them to a fountain of life and then restart the attack I could see why 3 heroes are too much but this is the beauty of playing games with different ways of playing it. There isn't a single way to play WC2 and this custom campaign shows exactly how to do it.

Chapter 3

The mission is a big improvement from the WC2 version without deviating too much from the original campaign. A+ work.

I totally agree with you. This chapter is the best imo. It really scaled up how the mission feels from the WC2 version to this remastered.

Too many heroes this early is important question because in every SINGLE campaign ive ever played 3 or more heroes makes an army an afterthought. Whereas in wc2 Botp they were strong but not something that could carry the fight solo especially with defeat conditions...

I disagree with you. I don't know how you played the mission but from what I have seen from other players they still had to make an army. A small army but still they needed some units to attack the enemy bases. Also remember 4 chapters are the "tutorial" chapters. So it's ok to have 2.5 heroes on your side.

 

[IIICatalystIII]

What about the timer to save Zul'jin be an optional objective? If the player rescue Zul'jin in time you get a good item.

That might be contradictory to the mission. In the cinematic dialogue, an elf said Zul'jin was destined to be sent to Quel'thalas. If the escort arrived, then Rend was too late.

I totally agree with you. This chapter is the best imo. It really scaled up how the mission feels from the WC2 version to this remastered.

To the developers, the missions don't need to be exactly like WC2 or just like WC3 but with WC2 story. When something is good, it is good. There are a few WC3 missions made by Blizzard that were lackluster. WC2 on the other hand suffers from old technology, so most maps play out the same.

 

[ShadiHD]

That might be contradictory to the mission. In the cinematic dialogue, an elf said Zul'jin was destined to be sent to Quel'thalas. If the escort arrived, then Rend was too late.





To the developers, the missions don't need to be exactly like WC2 or just like WC3 but with WC2 story. When something is good, it is good. There are a few WC3 missions made by Blizzard that were lackluster. WC2 on the other hand suffers from old technology, so most maps play out the same.

I like the idea of having a Timer for an Elven group coming to get Zul'jin to make the player more nervous to move out to save him