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Can there be peace without war?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Malufa, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

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    87.2% of statistics are made up on the spot. Philosophy is that wonderful realm of thought wherein one needs absolutely no statistics, so why waste time making up numbers?

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

    Okay, well, to start off, don't ever insult my grammar or my knowledge of the English language because firstly, it's not nice, and secondly, though I may choose to intentionally break rules of grammar and proper English, I have a better understanding of the language than 95% of people on Earth. That's what results from 14 years worth of reading constantly and another 3 of studying grammar...

    Nextly (which I realize isn't an accepted English word), you obviously do not understand commas. While these do separate items in a list, the entire list is describing 'one Nation.' I could just as easily say 'one Nation, under a rock, with three green eyes and agoraphobia for all,' but I wouldn't be pledging allegiance to agoraphobia, freakish monster people, nor rocks. Similarly, by reciting the Pledge, you are not swearing allegiance to Liberty nor Justice nor any god of any sort, but to the flag and the Republic. Ask your English teacher; oh, and if she says otherwise, look it up in the Modern Language Association's handbook and then tell her she's dumb for teaching you the wrong stuff...

    And finally, the cooldown moment: I hope you are not offended by this post because, though I know I was a bit abrasive, there was no wrong intended.
     
  2. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    they both target only a certain group of people. the only difference is the number.
    Uhh...who are you talking to?
     
  3. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

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    Ephy... sorry if I confused you...
     
  4. Darth Trhite

    Darth Trhite

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    I already said, things like buddhism, *luciferism*, Hindu, random cults, ridiculous or not, scientology, ya know...
    BTW i dunno where "pastafarianism" fits in, because the FSM appears to be one thing. I say it *maybe* fits under monotheism
    He is right. We can all see it as being the one Christians refer to as "God", but it can also be interpreted as referring to "Allah" or to "Buddha". Even an atheist man can be caught saying OHMYGOD sometimes.

    Im just clarifying my point, so its not misinterpreted into making me look like a neonazi
    And I forgot something major about "Me-too"ism. Wat do u think made *all* the German people keep silent about the death camps?
     
  5. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    if statistics are introduced, they must be accurate for their true scope and meaning to be truly appreciated.

    actually, they're describing "the republic for for which it stands", which you actually state later in your post.

    yes you would be, by pledging your allegiance to a flag, you are pledging allegiance to everything it claims to represent. you may not necessarily pledge your agreement with it, but you are pledging allegiance and loyalty nonetheless.

    okay then, let's say you only say up until the republic part. but since the republic represents liberty, justice, and a monotheistic god, you are indirectly pledging your allegiance to all of those.

    i will do that, although i don't have a Modern Language Association's handbook handy.

    there's nothing wrong with being abrasive because you're backing your points up. i'm offended because you're asserting blind "me-too"ism about the pledge.

    i say "oh my God" all the time, but the problem is that you are pledging allegiance to a monotheistic god.

    i realize that you were clarifying your point, but your points were presented in an objective manner and in no need of clarification, unless the reader was an overactive secular-progressive zealot. about "me-too"ism, many did help, and many did not. some of those that did help faced extremely harsh repercussions, which helped spread their lack of moral action. it eventually became "me-too"ism of "well this happened to them for doing the right thing, what if it happens to us?". not exactly "me-too"ism, but comparable
     
  6. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

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    The two are synonomous... the Republic and the one nation are the same thing!

    No. You are not. You are promised the rights to liberty and justice by the nation that the flag represents, but you aren't pledging yourself to those rights. You are going into an excessively loose interpretation of the pledge that doesn't represent the true ideas of the pledge at all...

    Just because a majority of the people in a country have monotheistic beliefs, it doesn't mean that the nation as a whole represents that. The pledge doesn't say "with Liberty, Justice, and a single God for all." In fact, it doesn't mention any god or gods granted to everyone. It says simply that liberty and justice are to be ensured for all.

    I disagree, contesting that you are the one who seems to be supporting the modern trend to protest "under God" in the pledge. Just because two poeple have similar ideas doesn't mean that one of them is copying the other or that they are blindly following the whims of society. I am a strong believer that Americans need more "God" in their lives, whether that be a deity of some sort or just a good set of moral standards. So enough with your 'me-too-ism' stuff...
     
  7. Darth Trhite

    Darth Trhite

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    "I pledge allegiance (COMMA) TO THE FLAG (COMMA) of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (COMMA) one nation (COMMA) UNDER GOD (COMMA) indivisibe (COMMA) with liberty and justice for all.

    You pledge alliegence to the flag of the USA. Not to God. I highlited key points, so it might be a good idea to rethink it. The under god part is simply complimenting the nation. The indivisble part is also a compliment. Oh yea...thats right. Im swearing loyalty to indivisibility.

    secular-humanist extremists have a thing against people like me and their leverage on just about every media outlet in the universe allows them to easily spread their lies. Dont trust everything you read or see in the news.
     
  8. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    is "me-too-ism" another word for bandwagon, or is it something else?
     
  9. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    yes, but the list is descriptive of the Republic. not to mention that the "one nation" is in the list. meaning that if "one nation" is part of the list but what you are pledging allegiance to, then you are also pledging your allegiance to a single God. what you have said later in the post makes this effectively pointless, but i'm going to argue until i get to it anyways.

    any time you pledge allegiance to anything, you pledge yourself to their (its) ideals and beliefs.

    which is why people are so upset about it.

    it doesn't directly say that, but it implies it.

    then i return this statement at you, as i have my own reasons for disliking the "under God" portion of the pledge. my full counter-point is in my reply to what you said next.

    then we have very different definitions of God. my definition of "God" is the single deity shared by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. my definition of "a god" is any sort of powerful being that is more than human. this entire argument is over the literal meaning of "God" in pledge. that is what i'm irritated by, pledging allegiance to a single way of arriving at a moral quality strived for by many different religions.

    you're pledging your allegiance to a republic that is individual, the exact same way you're also pledging allegiance to republic under God.

    it's a term for blindly following what the majority of the people around you are doing, and usually refers to doing so with behaviours or activities that are deemed to be immoral, idiotic, and in general wrong. bandwagon is more like following something because you'd heard it was fun or profitable, and may be for behaviours or activities that are positive (or at least not very negative) as well as (very) negative.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  10. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

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    You're not pledging allegiance to God. You're pledging allegiance to a nation that is under a God. It doesn't say which one it is. For all it says, God could be the United States itself.
     
  11. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    well like i said, my definition of "God" is the single deity shared by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
     
  12. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

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    You are 1/301,139,947.
     
  13. Xlightscreen

    Xlightscreen

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    mmk first of all here a few things
    athiest STFU We don't care that you don't believe in god
    relgius fanaticts STFU We don't care if you believe in god
    This thread was about if war could bring peace not if you believe in god,china, or the god damn motherland.

    Now if you obsultly have to get one of those following (not part of the subject) things then try putting them as a example of peace without war. Otherwise don't say anything at all.

    Now back to the ORGINAL SUBJECT!

    If there was no war there could not be peace becuase the concept of peace was developed as a opposite of war. I believe as man evolves out of there primitive minds (Some faster then other I believe.)
     
  14. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    ow, we just got put down. well said, on getting back on-topic and on the on-topic material. so anyways, like i said some 30ish (45ish?) post backs, there will always be at least the seeds of war because... something about no such thing as unlimited resources? i don't remember what the unlimited resources thing was stuck on to, ty for getting us back on track

    Edit: i looked back, and the off-topic started on page 9. i believe Darth Trhite may have been the proverbial pebble that started the avalanche with this post
    (either that or one of the two/three subsequent posts afterwards about foreign countries) but it was MySpaceBarBroke with
    that dragged religion into it. unfortunately, i am as much at fault for perpetuating the off-topic as everyone else for not returning to the topic.
     
  15. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    rofl it started with me saying "i would never say 'under god'" or something similiar to that. then dalaran said something like "why not?" and it snowball'd. XD
     
  16. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

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    It's kind of like that whole "With no evil in the world, how would we measure good?". If there were no war, what would be peace?
     
  17. MySpaceBarBroke

    MySpaceBarBroke

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    war is not the opposite of peace. if there were no wars, there'd still be crime, hate, etc.
     
  18. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

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    Okay, considering a certain individual (who will remain unnamed) is unable or unwilling to appeal to reason and sense in his arguments, would anyone else like to continue on with the original topic of war and peace?
     
  19. lorothrigs

    lorothrigs

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    What are you talking about? The last like 4 or 5 posts have been on-topic.
     
  20. Dalaran_Guard

    Dalaran_Guard

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    Ya. Well, I finally got sick of trying to reason with the individual with whom I have been arguing over the past couple of days and was too frustrated to read those last 4 or so posts.

    I guess the problem with this thread now is that just about anything that anyone says has been stated and possibly restated previously. I'm thinkin' it's time for a new discussion...