BLIZZCONLINE 2021

Level 12
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Dec 4, 2007
Messages
1,079
Why didn't they showcase some cool custom campaign? Oh yeah...

Ouch

Btw... 40€ for D2 remaster, how much was Starcraft/Reforged?

Maybe the new guys will work on Reforged after D2 remaster? Fingers crossed?? Maybe a small delegation, like 5 people??? Would that be too much to ask????
 
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Level 8
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
329
Ouch

Btw... 40€ for D2 remaster, how much was Starcraft/Reforged?

Maybe the new guys will work on Reforged after D2 remaster? Fingers crossed?? Maybe a small delegation, like 5 people??? Would that be too much to ask????
Even if they did work on Reforged again, what good would that do? The game is fundamentally broken and a failure of a remaster. If they truly wanted to make a proper remaster of Warcraft III, they'd have to rebuild the entire thing from the ground up, with a new Engine and their own models. And Blizz is not willing to do that, they weren't from the beginning.

As it is, even if the bugs and desyncs are fixed, the game will still run like crap because of poor optimization, as well as cross-play between versions. The game will still fail to deliver the Classic experience like it really was (No RoC, no classic client, no classic balancing, etc.), but will also fail deliver new, "reforged" experience (no new campaigns, cutscenes, gameplay, nothing).

The only good thing Blizz could do now, is to roll back to pre-reforged patches. Fix those, deliver a proper apology, admitting their failure and move on.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 65
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Oct 6, 2004
Messages
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From my point of view they just need to make all the modding features work in full. That is, the broken natives, the apparently broken Lua GC, the stability in general. And finally the number of players in custom game lobbies.

I couldn't care less about the style of HD but with HD, modders have the capability to go deeper and make a full-on custom HD experience.

Rolling back makes no sense. They should roll forward and finish it instead. If you think rolling back is a productive move you've never done programming on a 10+ year old codebase before.

That's what matters for a brighter future for modding.
 
From my point of view they just need to make all the modding features work in full. That is, the broken natives, the apparently broken Lua GC, the stability in general. And finally the number of players in custom game lobbies.

I couldn't care less about the style of HD but with HD, modders have the capability to go deeper and make a full-on custom HD experience.
Basically this.

If Blizzard fixes the broken/missing stuff I'll be more than happy. Anything other than that are insignificant details and preferences, like the art style. Some like it, others don't. Personally I don't like the new OR the old art style, and find them both way too cartoony. However, that's the great thing with modding, to be able to create our own art styles and visualize our own ideas. With the newly added support for PBR textures we're now able to visualize our ideas in even greater fashion than before. And not to mention the UI natives.

Warcraft III can be greater than ever before, as long as everything works. No need to "rebuild it from the ground up", such statements are nonsensical and not good feedback at all.
 
Level 8
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
329
From my point of view they just need to make all the modding features work in full. That is, the broken natives, the apparently broken Lua GC, the stability in general. And finally the number of players in custom game lobbies.

I couldn't care less about the style of HD but with HD, modders have the capability to go deeper and make a full-on custom HD experience.

Rolling back makes no sense. They should roll forward and finish it instead. If you think rolling back is a productive move you've never done programming on a 10+ year old codebase before.

That's what matters for a brighter future for modding.
The way I see it though, the game will always be limited by the old engine anyways. And the only thing that's new is the models. Even the environment wasn't changed. And so, can it really be that "future"? Why not go back to the old versions, that are far more stable, accessible for older systems, and preferred by (probably) most of the fanbase? Is it so hard for blizz to return to older versions, that they surely still have?

I guess these are pointless questions, though, as Blizzard will never admit their mistake and give back the old good versions of the game.

Warcraft III can be greater than ever before, as long as everything works. No need to "rebuild it from the ground up", such statements are nonsensical and not good feedback at all.
It may be nonsensical to you, but not to me. The way I see it, just slapping new "hd" models onto an existing game isn't enough for a good remaster. At it's core, this is still the old game. It just runs far worse than before.

Generally, I'd have prefered if Blizzard just released a single new patch that would add a few new natives and wide-screen support. That's it.
 
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Level 20
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Messages
1,417
The fact that Blizzard still hasn't fixed this game is insane, and them ghosting it at Blizzcon is even worse. What the hell is going on?

Anyone blaming the community for this fuck-up is either a straight-up troll or completely detached from reality. The idea that this is somehow our fault is asinine. This is on Blizzard and them alone.

Rolling back makes no sense. They should roll forward and finish it instead. If you think rolling back is a productive move you've never done programming on a 10+ year old codebase before.

I don't disagree with this, but it requires them to actually do it. If they're not going to finish it, I'd rather they roll back than leave the game in its current broken state.
 
Level 12
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Feb 2, 2006
Messages
797
Well we expected nothing and nothing happened. They kicked out the team which was working on the latest patch, so of course they won't mention it. When I look at the shop this game still costs 30 €, so they didn't even change its price although the game is broken and has no custom campaigns. We can only hope for a new team which will patch the classic games.

 
Level 6
Joined
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Messages
122
Well we expected nothing and nothing happened. They kicked out the team which was working on the latest patch, so of course they won't mention it. When I look at the shop this game still costs 30 €, so they didn't even change its price although the game is broken and has no custom campaigns. We can only hope for a new team which will patch the classic games.


And the official page still announces features that are not included in the final game.

They have no shame, they don't care.
 
Level 12
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493
 
Level 6
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
183
The fact that Blizzard still hasn't fixed this game is insane, and them ghosting it at Blizzcon is even worse. What the hell is going on?

I mean, at this point it's pretty clear that Warcraft III has been fully abandoned. The last minor patch has been 4 months ago with complete radio silence still. Not even getting a mention at Blizzcon pretty much shows they just want to forget the game ever existed and not put any more money or dev time into it.
 
Level 7
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
322
Now I just pray that OW2, Diablo Remastered etc. end up being spectacular money losers. This will have Activison make the calculated decision to divest Blizzard entirely. Leaving them bankrupt and forced to liquidate all assets. Then hoping that the WC IP will come in better hands.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,366
Now I just pray that OW2, Diablo Remastered etc. end up being spectacular money losers. This will have Activison make the calculated decision to divest Blizzard entirely. Leaving them bankrupt and forced to liquidate all assets. Then hoping that the WC IP will come in better hands.
I'm not really sure breaking the company altogether is a good idea considering there are other games to be maintained.
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 37
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,050
Now I just pray that OW2, Diablo Remastered etc. end up being spectacular money losers. This will have Activison make the calculated decision to divest Blizzard entirely. Leaving them bankrupt and forced to liquidate all assets. Then hoping that the WC IP will come in better hands.

Yes, let's hope for others to be disappointed because fuck them I guess.
upload_2021-2-22_19-49-35.png
 
Level 4
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
39

Brack:

Blizzard does not have a long history of working with other studios. We’re relatively insular.
This is the guy in charge of Blizzard...

Blizzard's history of working with other studios goes back to WarCraft 2 BtDP (co-developed with Cyberlore Studios in 1996). They also outsourced some work to another studio while working on StarCraft's expansion and collaborated with two companies in order to make Starcraft Ghost (Nihilistic Software and Swingin' Ape Studios).
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,366
Blizzard's history of working with other studios goes back to WarCraft 2 BtDP (co-developed with Cyberlore Studios in 1996). They also outsourced some work to another studio while working on StarCraft's expansion and collaborated with two companies in order to make Starcraft Ghost (Nihilistic Software and Swingin' Ape Studios).
Not to mention Sierra and Diablo: Hellfire.
 
Level 9
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
204
I knew they were going to remain silent about Warcraft and Heroes of the Storm, but it still hurts.

I don't understand why they fed us with those cringy PR sugar talks, using the power of nostalgia to sway us into thinking that they are actually presenting something noteworthy. Apart from Diablo segment, they just basically said "we are working on many things".

It's just freakin' sad.
 
Level 3
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
29
absolutely nothing? really? im not even mad, just incredibly sad, you murdered my beloved game a year ago and didn't even have the decency to give it a proper burial or had the guts to admit you did the murdering in the first place, screw you blizzard, i hope the D2 resurrected crap flops aswell and you stop ruining the only good games you ever made
 
Level 2
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
9
We should not lose hope. Some video games get more than one remaster. Age of Empires II got 2 remasters - HD and Defnitive Edition. Reforged will hopefully not be the only official wc3 remaster, they can make another one soon if Diablo 2 Resurrected is successful.
I bet they will call it Warcraft III: Reincarnated.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 65
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
9,384
I think it's time we stop expecting anything from Blizzard. This way we won't be disappointed because then they can't disappoint.

People have been posting angry messages over Reforged for a long time now. I get it. You're disappointed. Who isn't? I am too.

Hive is slowly transitioning from "the Warcraft 3 modding community" to "the community of people angry over Reforged". This is not productive, it is not healthy. Once again, I get it that you're disappointed. We know. You don't have to tell us.

I know people who are leaving the community because they cannot take the negativity. I don't want Hive to be a negative place. Hive is a place for us to make maps and assets. Not a place where you go for your daily dose of dread and despair.

Please I beg all of you,

Make the best of it or go home
.
 
Level 20
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Jul 26, 2004
Messages
1,417
I think it's time we stop expecting anything from Blizzard. This way we won't be disappointed because then they can't disappoint.

People have been posting angry messages over Reforged for a long time now. I get it. You're disappointed. Who isn't? I am too.

Hive is slowly transitioning from "the Warcraft 3 modding community" to "the community of people angry over Reforged". This is not productive, it is not healthy. Once again, I get it that you're disappointed. We know. You don't have to tell us.

I know people who are leaving the community because they cannot take the negativity. I don't want Hive to be a negative place. Hive is a place for us to make maps and assets. Not a place where you go for your daily dose of dread and despair.

Please I beg all of you,

Make the best of it or go home
.

I do get where you are coming from Ralle and I agree that the negativity shouldn't take over the site. If it were any other thread I'd be right there with you - that being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to voice frustration and disappointment over Blizzard's silence in this particular thread. I think it should be expected that Blizzard address Reforged, a product that they sold to customers and later abandoned, at this year's Blizzcon. The fact that they didn't is pretty insulting to the fans and where else to voice our frustration than the thread dedicated to the discussion of Blizzcon?

I understand that it's frustrating to see negativity on a platform you're pouring your heart and soul into, and like I said it shouldn't take over everything. Spamming angry messages in irrelevant threads is not alright. But I think it's quite reasonable to voice disappointment in the relevant threads - such as this one.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 65
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Messages
9,384
I do get where you are coming from Ralle and I agree that the negativity shouldn't take over the site. If it were any other thread I'd be right there with you - that being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to voice frustration and disappointment over Blizzard's silence in this particular thread. I think it should be expected that Blizzard address Reforged, a product that they sold to customers and later abandoned, at this year's Blizzcon. The fact that they didn't is pretty insulting to the fans and where else to voice our frustration than the thread dedicated to the discussion of Blizzcon?

I understand that it's frustrating to see negativity on a platform you're pouring your heart and soul into, and like I said it shouldn't take over everything. Spamming angry messages in irrelevant threads is not alright. But I think it's quite reasonable to voice disappointment in the relevant threads - such as this one.
I agree and I don’t judge people for being disappointed. I am well aware that anger correlates 100% with how much people care about this game.

Yet it’s important to know the causality of your actions. Bringing the mood down. It’s been done day in and day out for more than a year and I think it’s time we cut our expectations. That way they can’t hurt us. And start building up the things that were broken and try to survive in this new reality.

I get it Tauer. This is the thread for frustration. But there are many ways of showing it. You for example did it in a exemplary way.

Anyway. I hope I at least make people think more on what their goal is with posting in the hopes that Hive will be a place where people come with joy and leave with the same or more joy.
 
Level 20
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1,417
Anyway. I hope I at least make people think more on what their goal is with posting in the hopes that Hive will be a place where people come with joy and leave with the same or more joy.

I can respect this sentiment. I will try to focus more on the positives :)

On that note, Resurrected looks... promising. I will never again pre-order a Blizzard game, but I will consider buying it when it comes out - if it lives up to what is being promised. The fact that they are actually remastering all the cinematics is pretty hype, not gonna lie.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 65
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Messages
9,384
I can respect this sentiment. I will try to focus more on the positives :)
Thank you. :goblin_yeah:

On that note, Resurrected looks... promising. I will never again pre-order a Blizzard game, but I will consider buying it when it comes out - if it lives up to what is being promised. The fact that they are actually remastering all the cinematics is pretty hype, not gonna lie.

Agreed. I am cautiously optimistic. I am excited to see if there are some new world events like Uber Diablo, Pandemonium Event, etc.

I remember hanging out on sites like this to watch which servers Uber Diablo would walk on next and using tools to rejoin games until I hit a server with the right IP.

I nerded that game to the extreme. I wonder what it'd be like in D2R.

Crossing my fingers that it will be good.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
114
We should not lose hope. Some video games get more than one remaster.
lol, just stop it. Expecting Blizz to suddenly be the good guys again is just plain silly. How many times must they prove to you that they abandoned Wc3?
This doesn't, of course, mean that we fans and gamers should also abandon it.
But Blizzard just lead a drive-by shooting against Wc3 and then drove the fuck away onto other games never to come back again. And if they do come back, which as current evidence suggests they won't, there'd be 75% chance they'd just do more damage though I have no idea how that would even be possible rn.
 

Kazeon

Hosted Project: EC
Level 29
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Oct 12, 2011
Messages
3,433
In recent interview they stated that they still have a team to work on Reforged. They still look forward to add more features to the game. So they seem to have not completely abandoned the game. They also revealed of why they cancelled the remastered cinematics (not sure if it's the first time they did). But honestly and personally as a modder, I only expected Reforged to make the WE more powerful which they delivered, minus the bugs; and improved graphic quality which also they delivered, minus the subpar performance. So in overall, I can't really be so disappointed. The things they need to fix/add now are just the missing custom campaign feature and a bunch of minor fix & improvements, and the modding scene will be ready to go again. Well I might be wrong here.
 

Ralle

Owner
Level 65
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Oct 6, 2004
Messages
9,384
It can always be argued that Warcraft didn't deserve to be left in a ditch after a not very consentual one-night stand. But we'll manage with what we got.

personally as a modder, I only expected Reforged to make the WE more powerful which they delivered, minus the bugs; and improved graphic quality which also they delivered, minus the subpar performance. So in overall, I can't really be so disappointed.
Yeah modding is actually pretty good. There's a project that allows you to write in TypeScript which gets compiled to Lua. So you can finally write your map code in a real language.
Warcraft III - TypeScript
[...] just the missing custom campaign feature [...]
People are hard at work on fixing this with a mod. @InsaneMonster knows more about this. Can you tell us how it works? I always get puzzled when I go to the Quenching website.
 
Level 16
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,122
If we're talking positives and hopes... Diablo 3. It survived its team being dismantled twice - first time at some point after the release of the Necromancer pack and another one fairly recently, because as far as I know, Diablo 3 was maintained by the Classic Games team.

And yet, yesterday they announced a patch that revamps the Follower system in D3. It isn't anything huge, but it shows that even though Diablo 3 is an old game with very little ongoining monetization, it has still been given a little bit of love. Granted, Diablo aRPG is something they are clearly focusing on going forward, so it makes sense that they want to keep the D3 playerbase engaged, but then - they might not be RTS games, but WoW and Hearthstone are important to Blizzard too, so...

What I'm getting at is that while I don't think we should expect anything big, I do believe that there is a team that works on Reforged. It's probably not big and transfering the development to it likely caused some delays, but sooner or later they should come up with something. Or at least that's what I hope.
 
Level 4
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
84
Grubby made a statement in the wake of BC, it's worth a read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/lqy1h6/a_positive_note_from_grubby/

Kam we all like this game, if not a long time ago the majority of users who are still in the community, we would have left a long time ago. As Grubby says the game is still kept as SC 1 by its community, and this will continue to be in effect until the game actually dies. Blizzard tried to bring the game to new versions of computers, with improvements, with workers from the same War 3 community. But certain internal errors could not consolidate the work as well.

This does not mean that the game was broken, there are a lot of Add-On capable of including features to the game that was lost by this Version. Most people can follow your ideas and tools for future play.

What most of blizzard wants now is for them to solve the bugs that exist in various maps, breaking them, the constant types of bugs that cause disconnection from the server, the low performance of the game in Reforged mode and the editor with many failures that instead to help improve a map this breaks it.

PS: In my case I would like to implement the remaining native functions of the editor that still need to be integrated into the editor, such as the remaining management of the ui, skills management (silent, critical, evasion, farm, etc), buffs (dummys, time , counters, etc), attack and defense (missile control, formaula handling, etc), damage (damage without generating attack alerts, negative damage, etc), units and items (remaining upgrade functions for a single unit) , structures (construction site, time management training, etc), hotkeys.

Greetings.
 
Level 2
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
9
@EredarArbeiterYU Remastering Diablo 2 is way harder than wc3 because they lost the source code and assets of original game (How Diablo 2 Was Almost Lost, And Why A Remaster Is Less Likely)
If they can remaster D2 properly then I am sure they can fix Reforged/or make another wc3 remaster.
I personally think they are unlikely to fix Reforged because most mainstream people have refunded and its now extremely hard to get them back because mainstream media have given a lot of negative coverage to 'Reforged'. To attract mainstreamers, Blizz will make a new remaster which has a different name and logo so that people can just forget Reforged fiasco and start to trust Blizzard again.
 
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Archian

Site Director
Level 43
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
2,186
There’s going to be more updates. We’ve talked about how the various tournament systems are not where we want them to be, and there are additional features we want to continue to think about and add. We have a team that’s continuing to work on Reforged.
I'm especially interested in the last part. That's why we are going to contact J. Allen Brack to get us in contact with that team.
 
Level 12
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
493
I hope I at least make people think more on what their goal is with posting in the hopes that Hive will be a place where people come with joy and leave with the same or more joy.

It's my coping mechanism :)

In all seriousness though, sharing the misery with like-minded people takes the edge off of it a bit. Reminds me I'm not the only one annoyed by all this.
 

InsaneMonster

Hosted Project: W3RR
Level 10
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
206
It can always be argued that Warcraft didn't deserve to be left in a ditch after a not very consentual one-night stand. But we'll manage with what we got.


Yeah modding is actually pretty good. There's a project that allows you to write in TypeScript which gets compiled to Lua. So you can finally write your map code in a real language.
Warcraft III - TypeScript

People are hard at work on fixing this with a mod. @InsaneMonster knows more about this. Can you tell us how it works? I always get puzzled when I go to the Quenching website.

I think it's not possible to fix custom campaign. This mod you mention is an "hack" of the game, where they are just providing an UI to play consequent missions. As such, it needs an installer to hack the game and the campaign must be bundled by them. Because of that, it is probably going to feature only big projects. Still, better than nothing. To have again support for w3n files we 99% need Blizzard.
 
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