Blizzard Games Models

[Pharaoh_]

Hey,

given that this has been an ongoing discussion and at times it feels like we do not really take advantage of it, we could integrate a new section for models derived from Blizzard's products.

I am very much aware of the potential disappointment it will bring to 3D Artists of our site and it has been in fact assumed in the past that such an integration will demotivate them, but I never really understood how the presence of these models would restrain the creativity of our members.

As we are allowed to use them within Blizzard products and our community works on non-profit terms, it's only a matter of implementation.

Features:

• This section can include World of Warcraft, Diablo, StarCraft II and other Blizzard games' models.
• A rule would definitely be that the model must be optimized for WarCraft III.
• A tool to apply the animations you want before downloading the model, since almost every humanoid model shares the same bone structure (World of Warcraft-only).
  
  
  
  (Allows you to create a layer to import the animations. What you download is what is contained in the animation layer.
  If the bone structure is not compatible, a warning message will appear.)
• Friendly-search filter: Allows to categorize the models under the regions or hunting zones of the World of Warcraft world (e.g. Category: Ulduar).
• Unless the custom particle textures of the model really complement it, the users are expected to make use of in-game textures for that purpose. That should be a moderator's decision.
• Ability to instantly upload your own texture to test it on the model, within the 3D Model Viewer. Exiting the viewer immediately causes the deletion of the temporarily uploaded files within the database.

For the age of this game and for our access to such models, I'd say we should do it. Other WarCraft III communities do not have such a limitation (I am solely referring to World of Warcraft, Diablo and StarCraft II models) and sometimes I feel like we're walking on the wc3c.net path.

 

[GhostWolf]

I don't get it. You want a Whatever -> MDX converter? How does that fit with the models being optimized for WC3?
Either way, assuming this is actually practical, you realize the viewer can't even render SC2 models properly (and no particle emitters whatsoever), not to mention WoW models or Diablo 3 models (is their format even documented anywhere?).

To be honest, I don't really see the application for this, but let's see what other people comment.

 

[WerBackIII]

Thumbs up for the idea! While working on my campaign I realized the potential of converting WoW tiles for WC3 usage - including cliffs! So I think that the same case could be made for Blizz textures, not only models.

 

[Pharaoh_]

I don't get it. You want a Whatever -> MDX converter? How does that fit with the models being optimized for WC3?
Either way, assuming this is actually practical, you realize the viewer can't even render SC2 models properly (and no particle emitters whatsoever), not to mention WoW models or Diablo 3 models (is their format even documented anywhere?).

To be honest, I don't really see the application for this, but let's see what other people comment.

That's not quite the point. Users upload the optimized models with let's say 5 basic animations. The tool will allow you to remove and add animations from the library, in case the skeleton of the model is compatible with the bone structure that these animations result from. Therefore, you have two options, either to directly download the user's uploaded model or edit its animations and download it with another or enhanced set of sequences.

Particle emitters is not part of the tool at all. This is merely a rule before uploading your character/creature model. You won't be able to modify anything else, only add and remove animations - that's the purpose of the tool.

 

[GreeN!X]

• A tool to apply the animations you want before downloading the model, since almost every humanoid model shares the same bone structure (World of Warcraft-only).

Now that would be so convenient. But I'm guessing it would take a lot to implement since usual anim transfers take at least a couple of programs for it to work properly. (I think. Not much of an animator here)

• Friendly-search filter: Allows to categorize the models under the regions or hunting zones of the World of Warcraft world (e.g. Category: Ulduar).

This would surely depend on tags by users. I mean there could also be times when a model from this zone will be edited to fit this other zone so I suppose it would be kinda confusing to the uploader which zone he would categorize his model/skin to.

• Unless the custom particle textures of the model really complement it, the users are expected to make use of in-game textures for that purpose. That should be a moderator's decision.

I think this should be included under that optimization rule. Most WoW models' particles can usually be replaced by ingame ones with enough editing.

For the age of this game and for our access to such models, I'd say we should do it. Other WarCraft III communities do not have such a limitation (I am solely referring to World of Warcraft, Diablo and StarCraft II models) and sometimes I feel like we're walking on the wc3c.net path.

Well being a new member, I really don't get what the last sentence means but yeah, I think it's time to make some kind of Rip section. But unlike other sites, IMO, we should really restrict to allowing uploads that are from other Blizzard games.

 

[GhostWolf]

But in that case this seems to be very specific to a few WoW models that share the same skeleton. This will never happen for any other model (unless maybe a few SC2 terran units share it too).

- How is this widely applicable to other models?
- How is this useful? (got any usage examples?)

 

[Pharaoh_]

But in that case this seems to be very specific to a few WoW models that share the same skeleton. This will never happen for any other model (unless maybe a few SC2 terran units share it too).

- How is this widely applicable to other models?
- How is this useful? (got any usage examples?)

I am not aware whether other Blizzard game models share the same structure, so no, I am referring to World of Warcraft models in particular for the tool.

Regarding its usefulness, frankly, if you can't see how it would be helpful to download a model with animations you want or the model didn't use to have in the original file, I cannot really say anything else

 

[Dr Super Good]

•A rule would definitely be that the model must be optimized for WarCraft III.

WC3 optimized models look bad in SC2. It should be optimized for the target game so SC2 models have to look considerably better than a WC3 counterpart and feature many more attachment points and animations.

•A tool to apply the animations you want before downloading the model, since almost every humanoid model shares the same bone structure (World of Warcraft-only).

These animations should preferably be supplied via the SC2 animation extension format. This would allow the same set of animations to be applied to all like models in the same way the SC2 Civilian does it already.

Additionally when using large number of such models you should try and attach them via public mods on BattleNet 2.0. This would allow other people to use them by adding your mod as a dependency rather than having to use their storage space for the model.

 

[PurgeandFire]

I agree with the idea. I don't think we should have the exports in our models section, but rather some separate section (or a subsection within the model section, but I'd still prefer an entirely separate section). It would be cool to have some utilities to help out with the process. Animations are an interesting idea, but it would be even cooler to be able to integrate attachments.

But in that case this seems to be very specific to a few WoW models that share the same skeleton. This will never happen for any other model (unless maybe a few SC2 terran units share it too).

- How is this widely applicable to other models?
- How is this useful? (got any usage examples?)

Character models. Most WoW NPC's use any of the 12 or so base models (human male, human female, dwarf male, dwarf female, etc.). The only things that differentiate them are the attachments and textures. Robes, shoulderpads, weapons, etc. Imagine if those were uploaded individually and capable of being directly attached to the model (and scaled, of course). You could basically have your own fashion-designer game using your model viewer (since it would already be .mdx). Plus, you already added the feature for attachments, so it would be very feasible.

There are a lot of details that need to be sorted out, but most of the work is already done with your viewer. It would probably need the option to display/hide particular geosets (there is a geoset in case the user is wearing a robe, a geoset in case the user is wearing thick gloves, etc.--in the end, you only have a fraction of the geosets used--the rest are removed), load a texture, and probably a feature to export the model (with its geosets removed, texture applied, w/e etc.).

I might be getting carried away, though. I'm mostly thinking of WoW -> Wc3. Sc2 -> Wc3 and D3 -> Wc3 is a little weirder, but I suppose we could have sections for them anyway (or for WoW -> Sc2 or w/e).

Anyway, it would just be nice to have more these assets available to the users. They are already used quite often (e.g. Iceborn), but only users with the WoW MPQ's can export them (technically, WoW is free, but it is such a large download that most users won't get it just for wc3 modding).

Still, it is up to the community. People were hostile towards it before, but I think times have changed. It would require a lot of planning, and probably a fair amount of work, but it has great potential.

 

[neo_sluf]

This would be awesome if implemented..

 

[Ralle]

I am planning on having a complete separate section so the user made art is separate from the rips.

 

[PROXY]

Wow moels do not share the same bone structure, maybe the ones from the same race but defintly not across these boundaries. Not enough at least to make clean animation transfers possible.

 

[Heinvers]

Hmm, interesting, but as Raelle said a rips section must be done in order to accommodate these models. for the idea Pharaoh.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Yep, I did suggest a separate section, called "Blizzard Games Models", otherwise I'd just say allowance of Blizzard models

PurgeandFire (why the rename?), attachments is awesome as an idea and will minimize the custom modelling and editor muddling. I am not sure if the decision makers would like to take it as far, but I can honestly see a great result coming out of it.

As for skeleton, there could also be Dragons, which share the same one. The idea is to be able to generalize the skeletons and apply them on similar models.

Initially, I didn't think of StarCraft II as an output format; I was only talking about MDX downloadable models, because then we would need an internal converter depending on the game we would want to use them for, which is pretty hard work (and I won't take for granted that GhostWolf is interested, even in the case that everyone gets excited).

Oh by the way, I forgot to add that when a user picks "Cinematic Jump" or sequences that are not readable by the (respective) game, once assigned to the Animation Layer, they will be automatically renamed into conventional naming. For instance, since StarCraft II is by far more flexible, "Cinematic Jump" could be renamed into Jump, whereas the WarCraft III alternation could be "Morph".

 

[Heinvers]

For instance, since StarCraft II is by far more flexible, "Cinematic Jump" could be renamed into Jump, whereas the WarCraft III alternation could be "Morph".

That would be convenient.

(and I won't take for granted that GhostWolf is interested, even in the case that everyone gets excited).

Let's hope that he'll be opened to suggestions.

 

[GhostWolf]

I still don't quite understand how this is related to the viewer.

The part of the attachments is something you'd do in-game, why would you want to create a model with specific attachments when you can attach those same things and more in-game?

About the animation transfers, do the WoW models not share the same animation sets?
If not, doing these automatic animation transfers is possible, though I am not sure how useful it is, or how it's related to the viewer.
Either way, this requires someone to actually port all the models in a consistent fashion (same bones, geosets, etc.)

As to converting WC3 models to SC2, I believe BlinkBoy played with that concept.
It's not really possible to get any decent results without manual work. Sure, you can convert the geometry, and possibly the emitters (though we don't have any clear documentation on them), but as far as materials go, you are stuck with only the diffuse layer, which looks horrible in SC2.

 

[PurgeandFire]

The part of the attachments is something you'd do in-game, why would you want to create a model with specific attachments when you can attach those same things and more in-game?

Nothing is preventing that. The only advantage is really consolidation and convenience. With attachments, to achieve the same functionality, you would have to attach on creation and remove on corpse decay. Of course, you get to be dynamic with it. But it also means you end up with 2-5 models associated with one (2 shoulderpads, a cape, weapon/off-hand, helm, etc.). I agree it is still feasible, but models are usually shipped together with the attachments (at least on other sites, apart from weapons). I suppose that could be changed if we have a properly planned system though.

But anyway, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. Right now the question is just whether to have a WoW section or not. I think where we go from there would require more planning, since there are a chinchillian ways to go about it. Overall, WoW models are very systematic, so there are a lot of cool things that we can do to make them work for Wc3 (e.g. find out what scaling to use for armor for different races, standardize the conversion process, etc.).

 

[WaerercraftKillers]

I like that. BTW is transfering other animations from another model is ilegal?

AND how did you get thouse WOW (world at war lol) model?

 

[Daffa]

Transferring animations aren't illegal, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Dr Super Good]

BTW is transfering other animations from another model is ilegal?

If the source model is owned by Blizzard and the target model is only used in Blizzard games like WC3 and SC2 then it is perfectly fine. Technically Blizzard might be able to push action but they will not as they actively encourage people to take their games in new and amazing waysIf the target model is used for purposes other than Blizzard games then Blizzard could push legal action against you depending on what the purpose is and from where it is being performed.

If the source model is not owned by Blizzard and is owned by another company then that company can push legal action against you. It depends on how they view the use (some will not mind, others will want it removed ASAP) or how much legal resources they have at their disposal (some indy company is unlikely to peruse you while some massive cooperation like EA will almost always take action).

If the source model was created by individuals privately then it depends on the licence they have given the model. In most cases it should suffice if you credit them for the animations however I have met some more pedantic modellers who outright do not allow stuff like this (specifically they do not allow the models to be used for purposes outside of that which it was created). Obviously this is not very legally enforceable and at most a civil case could be pushed in some countries but the chances of this happening are near 0 due to a lack of legal resources. However sites such as Hive Workshop do take such things seriously and may reject resources if they do not comply with a basic resource owner's licence (aka a lot of the resource rules against resource theft and things can be considered as some form of liscence).

 

[WaerercraftKillers]

So this means That:
If Blizz models and transferring to another blizz model is safe
If Blizz models and transferring to another game (aside from blizz models) is ilegal
If Custom models and transferring to another game is still illegal
If Custom models and transferring to another blizz model is safe
If Custom models and transferring to another custom model is Dependent
like that.

 

[Dr Super Good]

If Blizz models and transferring to another blizz model is safe

Yes, they have promoted many maps that have done that in both WC3 and SC2.

If Blizz models and transferring to another game (aside from blizz models) is ilegal

Yes they tried to apply that to SCU before they realised it was not a WoW clone but a SC2 custom map.

If Custom models and transferring to another game is still illegal

Only if the author's licence deems it so.

If Custom models and transferring to another blizz model is safe

Only if the author's licence deems it so.

If Custom models and transferring to another custom model is Dependent

Only if the author's licence deems it so.

Basically the authors licence will state what they allow to be done to the model. If they exempt mentioning any prohibitry clauses you can expect you can do anything to it except claim it is your own work.

 

[WaerercraftKillers]

Allright so a permssion is needed for the authors work to be edited. Ok thanks for the help.