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Battle for elven forest (4.5)

Submitted by Supernickman 32
This bundle is marked as substandard. It may contain bugs, not perform optimally or otherwise be in violation of the submission rules.
[​IMG]
Supernickman 32 Creator of map


Map info:

Map based on(mostly ported tho):


Map takes place around the time between the First and Second wars between Azerothiens and Orcish clans of Dreanor. Map contains buildings and units from Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2. Note that map won't function properly if you choose any other race besides Orcs or Humans.

Map Specifics
[​IMG] Players 5
[​IMG] Creep Camps 0
[​IMG] Gold Mines 10


Story:



Elves once were inhabitants of this forest, but left it long time ago. Surprisingly Elven magic still remains in depths of this land.

Three years have past since First War between Man and Orc, after war Orcs were preparing for new invasions to come.
Warchief of the Horde, Orgrim Doomhammer knowing that there are more lands across the sea filled with Humans, their friends and foes, sent an expedition that was tasked with establishing few encampments to insure invasion of the Horde. At first Orcs were unstoppable, however shortly afterwards, they were pushed back to an alley that leads to shoreline. As Orcs prepare defenses and Azerothiens prepare to give the Expedition final, stricking blow , now the last battle began and it's only up to you to decide which faction will prevail...


Credits ( thx for models, textures and music):
Red XIII Models & textures
Kitabatake Models & textures
Tauer Models & textures
MassiveMaster Models & textures
General Frank Models & textures
skrab Models & textures
loktar Models & textures
BLazeKraze Models & textures
Kortofertos Music

These people didn't help me officially just i wanted thank them for textures, models and music.

Screenshots



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What's new?

[14/04/2019]
-Slightly tweaked AI
-Fixed tooltips
-Fixed Orc Lumber Mill sounds


-Changed Player 5 AI to Orc one


[13/04/2019]
'Return of the Paladins'
-Created New map(for the last time)
-Added New buildings
-Fixed Tooltips
-Readded 'Paladin' unit, which replaced 'Dark Cleric'(Paladins were present in original release of the map, but were buggy, and due to my inability, at time, to fix those bugs, i decided to replace them with Dark Clerics, but now they're back!)
-Changed up Human Spellcaster' spells
-Now Dragons actually have 'Spell Immunity'


[08/04/2019]
-Mostly fixed some tooltips and bugs with Crossbowmen


[07/04/2019]
4.5
-Created new map
-New prices
-Added Stables
-Changed up stats
-Removed heroes
-Hope this update does better then last ones
-Now map is for 4 players
-Edited version uploaded later with symmetrical design

[​IMG]


4.0_01

-Polished icons and tooltips
-Changed up some spells
-Removed some units
-Fixed majority of problems pointed out by Daffa The Mage(with exception of order of the abilities heroes learn, as i was unable to fix that)


[05/04/2019]
-Created new map
-Increased cost of buildings and units
-Added new units and buildings
-Added new spells and abilities to some units
-Decreased file size



[​IMG]
[29/03/2019]
3.5_06(yet another minor update)
-Did some work on terrain again
-Finished fix of icons(had to make some of them tho, not the best, but only thing i had)
-Modified game interface
-Modified game constants
-Fixed some tooltips
-Fixed some bugs


[28/03/2019]
3.5_05(super minor update)
-Did some work on terrain again
-Fixed icons(had to make some of them tho, probably not the best, but only thing i had)


[26/03/2019]
3.5_04(yet another minor update)
-Did some work on terrain again
-Worked on AI
-Changed some tooltips
-Readded "Sorceress"


3.5_03(yet another minor update)

-Changed names of some units
-Fixed some more tooltips
-Tweaked some units


3.5_02(another minor update)
-Did some work on terrain again
-Fixed bugs with "Dragon Roost"
-Added Blight to Orcs
-Changed some tooltips
-Fixed creep drop


[25/03/2019]
3.5_01(minor update)
-Did little work on terrain(unnoticeable)
-Tweaked shops(vaults) for both sides(will have to work on it again though)
-Fixed tooltip of "Scout Dog"


[24/03/2019]
-Updated to newer version
-Reterraformed terrain ((slightly) will probably do more of it later though)
-Fixed tooltips
-Tweaked creep spawnpoints
-Added new units
-Added new buildings
-Changed up Description of map
-Changed up Loading screen
-Changed some models and textures
-Changed up music loop


[​IMG]
[18/06/2017]
-Fixed and modified Loading Screen
-Modified terrain
-Modified game interface
-Modified game constants
-Added skybox
-Modified map preferences
-Fixed and changed some descriptions
-Added sound to Pig Farms
-Changed hotkeys to some units
-Returned WC3 Model of War Mill
-Increased Food Limit
-Removed "Call to arms"
-Added few easter eggs
-Now players can destroy bridges (To do so you must hit bridge 2-3 times with catapults attack "Ground attack"
-Modified creep drops
-Added 'better' AI to both sides


[​IMG]
[04/03/2017]
-Added Zeppelin(flying transport) for both sides (Also you can upgrade their armor)
-Modified Loading Screen
-Fixed more tooltips
-Changed name "Big Barracks" to "GREAT Barracks"

[​IMG]
[03/02/2017]
-Added music
-New units for both sides
-New spec_effects
-Now workers of both sides harvest 20 gold instead of 10
-Gold mine gold number changed
-Terrain terraformed
-Hotkeys changed
-Description changed
-Unit 'Paladin' replaced with 'Dark Cleric'
-Added Loading Screen.



Map is also uploaded on Epicwar.com.

Future Plans:
...
Contents

Battle for elven forest (Map)

Reviews
Ragnaros17
I played the map, I will review the map, orc race: -model changed of townhall, barrack new model, tower the same, farms wc3 campaing model, the mage hall has the guldan gigant skull wc3 campaign model, dragon roost wc3 model, shop same model...
Daffa the Mage
MAJORS: Distance from Gold Mine is too far for both sides, consuming extra food for an efficient gold gathering. At least shorten them slightly so it doesn't consume like 8-9 miners. Orc Gold Mine is slightly farther than Human Gold Mine, in...
Imperator
This is mostly just a reskin that ends up being a lot worse than the base game's melee. You just removed the features from the tech trees without giving much back. The map doesn't allow you to interact with the enemy in any way, I don't understand why...
Daffa the Mage
Alright, let's get to it. MAJOR: The fact transport is T2 AND you MUST use one disallow early game engagement. This causes a boring lockup till mid-late game. Despite its sheer cost, Gryphon extremely destroy a base without proper anti-air,...
  1. Arad MNK

    Arad MNK

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    You can make this description hotter with this. This is informative enough though, just for a more eye-candy description.
     
  2. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  3. Aleister

    Aleister

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    Great work!
     
  4. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  5. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    [​IMG]
    Newer version of map, adds something new in mechanics of gameplay.

    -Added Zeppelin for both sides that transports units (you also can upgrade their armor)
    -Added new screenshots
    -Modified Loading Screen
    -Fixed more tooltips
    -Changed name "Big Barracks" to "GREAT Barracks"
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  6. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

    Map Moderator

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    Back to the pending board for another review upon author's request.
     
  7. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    I played the map, I will review the map,


    orc race:
    -model changed of townhall, barrack new model, tower the same, farms wc3 campaing model, the mage hall has the guldan gigant skull wc3 campaign model,
    dragon roost wc3 model, shop same model

    barrack
    -grunts are the same, same upgrade, icon and model changed.
    - spear trolls with wc3 grunt icon, replaced with spear orcs, good choise, but same troll skill, berseker upgrade removed, new skills would be a good idea.
    - orc knigth 100 gold and 60 wood, having the orc grunt gold cost 200, the orc knight has 340 hp, orc grunt 700, the orc knigth is an unecesary melee unit, in tier 1, it would be clever to have the grunts in tier 2, but also you would think that the knigths are stronger in appearence, wile they are not. also attack is lower than grunts, in Age of empires 3, cazpka Ulans cavarly has low HP but high attack wich is a plus.

    -catapult the same, oil upgrade removed.
    - zeppeling tier 2, useless for scouting when you have an air hero, , a zeppeling is a good option to reach a cliff or an island, but here is not necesary, I wouldnt take that much time to do a lot of zeppelings to transport a huge army like the image, I would just walk or go all dragons, no need of land units, since gold is huge, dragon roost 50 gold , tier 3 building, is more cheap than tier 1 buildings, I would build like 10 of them and rush with the dragons.

    altar of the storms.
    tauren hero removed, no troll shadow hunter also removed. with no tauren orcs lost the tank hero with strengh, now 2 agility and 1 inteligence focus.
    -blademaster and far seer same
    - the air new hero with the wyrm raider icon and model, it has the tauren skills reincarnation, same aura, blink (unecesary for an air unit)
    battle cry is a new skill, good idea, but the NE bear icon quits racial inmersion.

    the beast bastion, or beasthall I cant remember the name.:
    - only riders, no kodo, no wyrm air units, no troll air unit. Orcs lost the tier 2 air units. Build that building to produce only 1 unit seems pointless now, when I do that building I want a kodo aura or air units, raider is just an anti air unit with net that requires micromanage, nerubians are much better with auto cast,

    orc mages hall:
    - same skills and tech of the shaman and troll doctor, just model and name changed, no tauren spirit walker unit, was removed.

    dragon roost
    -only 50 gold, no wood cost, to cheap for a tier 3 building.
    - dragon wc3 model, devour like kodo, spell inmunity. and a skill reasearch with the pandarem icon, you could use another icon.


    orc shop:
    -same troll model
    - gauntless orc +3 strengh , perma L1, the orc flag cost 1000 gold , a point less item, that is used in capture the flag games, here is just waste 1000 gold.
    -others items the same, blizz presets.

    -sawmill
    -all the same

    melee map.
    - starting goldmine has a lot of gold, no need to expand.
    - so I raided the expanding with my air hero, bad for balance.
    upload_2019-4-1_11-57-42.png
    - there are no tavern, no shops, no goblin labs, no merc camps, just 4 goldmines,
    -1 way of attack with a small bridge,
    -gaps between trees,
    - there is no a proper creeping route, green creep, orange, red creep, so if you go land to a red creep like in melee you will have to run.
    - black fog dont allow you to see creep color red, orange, green,
    - creeps design has been done in a way: all orges, all trolls and all gnolls, wich is not a good idea to balance ranged, melee and magic units, the orge camp with all melee is the most unbalanced, it needs anti air.

    Sugestion:
    - music seems to unecesary increase file size, it has the same size of a campaign but is an isolated map, so remove it, and maybe leave 1 track only and in a small size format,

    For a melee map this map is not good for the reasons I gave, you should read tutorials and see others maps to learn how a good melee map should be done.
    And as altered, the changes in models are nice, but is more like you removed things, than add new things, and just used many pre-existent things like the dragons and orc knights.

    I sugest you to take a preexistant melee map like Terenas stand or whatever, and work only the altered melee (users that do altered usually use blizzard maps to avoid to do the mumbo jumbo of design from 0 a new map and focus on the new race) , you should focus more one the new race, more new models, new icons, new items, new skills, because as a new race it seems lacking. I would try to consider the design of new units and new skills, like the wc2 orc skills,

    -like orges scouting and bloodlust,
    - the death kniths orcs could be a nice hero with death coil, burst speed, death and decay (lich), flame armor, and unholy armor invulnerability.
    - the zeppelings could have an attack role,
    -orc cannon towers?? or orc cannon units

    Please dont feel discouraged, I hope you can improve your new orc race to give players a unique creative play that may give the nice feeling of re-play

    good luck and see ya.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  8. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    Ok thanks, will try to include and do as much stuff as i can.

    But i think i'll update it at the end of the week
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  9. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

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    MAJORS:
    1. Distance from Gold Mine is too far for both sides, consuming extra food for an efficient gold gathering. At least shorten them slightly so it doesn't consume like 8-9 miners.
    2. Orc Gold Mine is slightly farther than Human Gold Mine, in respective from their starting halls.
    3. Watch Mill icon looks like active despite still not available.
    4. For its price tag, Orc Knight is VERY weak. Compare to a grunt, it falls in every aspect except speed and damage. More like Orc Scout.
    5. Firebolt is a major deal breaker since it STUNS. Maybe switch for something that doesn't do BOTH damage AND disable.
    6. Farm and Burrow have the same price for different food value?
    7. Dark Cleric's Sleep automatically learned without any research. Master doesn't unlock ability at all.
    8. Human Zeppelin cost food but Orc Zeppelin doesn't.
    9. The terrain is pretty bland, could use a lot of artistic improvements.
    MINORS:
    1. Hero automatically cost 425g 100l on the first train for some reason.
    2. Chain Lightning moves to first slot if learned before Death Coil (Far Seer).
    3. Please correct the tooltip for Warlock. Firebolt NOT Purge.
    4. Same goes for Necrolyte. No mention of Raise Dead.
    5. I suggest keeping tooltip concise, for flavor text, add them below the main informations.
    6. Battle Roar and Endurance Aura icon position collides (Wind Walker).
    7. Dark Cleric uses Uther soundset (The light is with us meme).
    8. The position of the ogre/gnoll camp is annoying to lumber.
    SUGGESTIONS:
    1. Gold x2... why not lumber too?
    2. Add heroes for variation, the fact one hero is removed already reduced the tactic available.
    3. Dark Cleric? Why not Cleric?
    NOTES:
    1. I'm unsure why the player sign in-game writes 1 instead of 2.
    VERDICT
    AWAITING UPDATE
    REQUIREMENTS :
    1. Fix MAJORS issues.
    2. All MINORS needs to have an explanation OR fixed up.
     
  10. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    Thanks, I will start working on update!

    And i'm having issues with Cleric model, so i went for Dark Cleric, but i had thought of returning unit "Paladin". Actually i might add spell that will justify why he's Dark.

    And as for icons i noticed my fail only when i first added them, so i decided to go with for the time being, but i guess it's time to fix them up!

    And as for Hero spells, i'm not sure how to organize them in order, so i can't fix them. As for creep camp, it is assy move to pull off, but it gives you a little challenge, so i'll leave it in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  11. Imperator

    Imperator

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    This is mostly just a reskin that ends up being a lot worse than the base game's melee. You just removed the features from the tech trees without giving much back. The map doesn't allow you to interact with the enemy in any way, I don't understand why you walled off everything with trees.

    Some weird things I noticed:
    - Why do I start with a grunt and pig farms if I play as human?
    - Why can I build a dog?!?! A melee tower is a pretty bad idea even if you excuse the logic of upgrading a dog into a tower
    - The AI straight up doesn't do anything
    - The barracks upgrade for crossbowmen requires a building that doesn't exist (I think you disabled it)
    - You doubled the gold income but the prices are largely the same
    - Some buildings appear to be missing
    - Dark Clerics' attacks don't have projectiles or sounds
    - Crossbowmen don't have weapon upgrades

    I suggest you remake both the tech trees and the map from scratch. This map is pretty much a lost cause and tech trees are just bare bones versions of the original ones. You should study the elements of the blizzard's melee maps and see what needs to be included. As it stands, you just need to have a critical mass and cut down trees to get to the enemy and win. You can't even scout, harass, or expand until you get those zeppelins, which I think you accidentally disabled, along with some buildings probably, in your last update. I also recommend trying to create your own techtrees without relying on editing blizzard ones too much.
     
  12. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    Thanks for your review, and here are some things, that i wanted to adress:

    1)AI seems to work as intended not sure what problems you're having;
    2)Weird start with grunt and a pig farm happened because you choose to play as human when you selected "Horde";
    3)Not sure what you mean by 'barracks upgrade', if it is "Long Bow", then once again everything works fine, for me at least;
    4)What buildings are missing?

    Overall i guess i have to simplify map set up, so people won't get confused when they mess up with forces, and remake map itself completely, once again.
    Thanks again for your i'd say review. I'll work on update once again.
     
  13. Imperator

    Imperator

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    The workshop was disabled for me. Maybe you accidentally disabled for the opposite side so it's related to the forces issue. I'm glad to hear you'll be updating this, I'll check it out again when you update it. I understand that you're severely limited in terms of what units you can use given the lore setting you chose is very restrictive in terms of unit types.
     
  14. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    I guess i'll go more for unit orientated melee.
     
  15. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    If you want to design a melee map you should read tutorials, see others maps, read reviews, see youtube videos.

    only by seeing the minimap, the melee layout is not a good one, only 1 way of attack, and aerial only to the other side.

    if you want to do an altered, also read reviews, editor tutorials, others altered approved,
    many altered melee mappers use pre-existant blizzard maps to do altered so they dont need to bother in mapping a hole new map.

    mapping is like fixing a car, you cant fix a car if you dont know how to fix a car
    you cant map well if you dont know how to map well, is hard to learn, even I am still learning and practicing how to use cliff in melee.
     
  16. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    I mean my map doesn't require stuff like taverns or goblin merchants, since there are no heroes, so idea of taking Blizzard's map seems bit odd, because even then i'll have to alter it's appearence to suite my races. But i'am looking at tutorials at the moment, and tbh i learned alot of stuff in map making, so if i (and probably will) end up remaking map i'll know much more about what i'm doing.
     
  17. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    read tutorials and also see others melee maps or altered melee maps helps a lot, see @Wa666r altered melee maps they are very unique.
     
  18. Supernickman 32

    Supernickman 32

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    I think i'll just 'port' Warcraft 2 pud onto Warcraft 3 and see what happen.