1.24's effect on Maps and Spells

[Sabelion]

Lol?

You are killing my life man!

 

[PurplePoot]

im having a similar problem cause i can´t even enter westfall since i have only acces to german versions of wc3.
Will v1.24 be released in the whole world at the same time ? What is if for example people form USA have the new version of wc3 before the people in europe do ? It would be kind of the staff if they wait until everyone has acces the new version, elseway this will cause a lot of problems since THW is an international website.

That's why this is running for two weeks after the official patch release, not two weeks from that post.

 

[Thanathos]

ah ok thats great thank you poot

 

[cookies4you]

oh great =(. the only GUI MUI Great Way I know is with indexes. Time to "DE"volve back to using mass unit groups T_T

 

[PurplePoot]

No. Hashtables are entering GUI in 1.24. Also, you can still use proper indexing systems, just not lame ones.

 

[xp3r009]

No. Hashtables are entering GUI in 1.24. Also, you can still use proper indexing systems, just not lame ones.

Yes, and also you can use handles as a type in variables. I have tried it, looks nice, but maps may not work due to JASS fixes (one of them is the return bug). DotA doesn't work currently, but I'm sure IceFrog is on the move to resolve that.


You can get it from Westfall (though I wouldn't say its officially released), but if you still want to play DotA and some of the popular maps I had kept myself a copy of version 1.23 just in case when I needed them; for now I'm confused how to convert to any type without causing a return bug as such.

 

[Ranger21]

Cjass is good for users who know C++ and sometimes allow to do better code than vJass.

But... vJass much more older and have more usability.

 

[Marsmallos]

* 1.24-incompatible spells will not be acceptable.

How do I know if my spell is 1.24 incompatible? Will there be specific features rendering many spells incompatible in 1.24? There haven't even been released any 1.24 patch notes, how do you know things will be different with 1.24?

 

[Thanathos]

@Marsmallos
simply update your WC3 version to v1.24 and test the spell.
if the spell works everthing is fine, if not you have to fix

 

[PurplePoot]

How do I know if my spell is 1.24 incompatible? Will there be specific features rendering many spells incompatible in 1.24? There haven't even been released any 1.24 patch notes, how do you know things will be different with 1.24?

Beyond the obvious route--testing them in 1.24, check out this page.

 

[Marsmallos]

Hmm it says 1.23b :S And also I tried logging onto battle.net a couple of minutes ago and the game didn't update to 1.24

 

[Yixx]

Log on to Westfall server, it is not available on normal servers yet. Westfall is Beta server and holds the Beta patch

 

[Marsmallos]

but wont that affect my normal game so I cannot log on to normal bnet afterwards?

 

[PurplePoot]

Yes you can, it will just have to reverse the patch again.

 

[Rmx]

So GUI MUI by indexing can be still used ? Example : Paladon indexing ?

If not then they could recycle indexes in GUI like in Kingz Tutorial ^^

So the question is .. GUI Indexing can it still be used ... like Paladon spells ?

 

[Yixx]

I would have to examine it in detail, but if it does indeed actually competently recycle indices then it would be acceptable.

Read that, and take your conclusions,,

 

[Paladon]

So the question is .. GUI Indexing can it still be used ... like Paladon spells ?

Since it refreshes, yes.

 

[Davjo]

anything other now
why I CANT MAKE TREADS and DONT CAN UPLOAD MAPS WHY THE MODERATORS SAY THAT THE MAP COUNTAINS ERRORS WHEN IT IS A FUCKED MEELE MAP? i say something other FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! FUCK HIVEWORKSHOP! 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[Yixx]

RMX, you can use your old GUI MUI system, but it is usefull to ask Paladon about the Recycle system, so your GUI will get even more efficient (as far as possible)

 

[krisserz]

So many changes... What exactly will be on 1.24?

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Spells must be fully multiinstanceable, and done so competently (IE no "indexing systems" which just populate a massive array and count upwards until they hit a maximum, then restarting from the first possible value regardless of whether the position is taken).

I'm guessing no GUI spells at all, then? That would be fun.

 

[Kwah]

WILL, you tard. Read the thread.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I've been reading. I don't like what I've been reading. I thought we were finally refusing all GUI spells, seems like the rules have been changing in the last 4 pages.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Nevermind about the indexing thing. Finally caught on to what it actually meant. <.<

 

[WraithSeeker]

Epic doubleposting.

This would be a good step or excuse to clean out old resources that were abandoned which are inefficient and bad.

 

[Palaslayer]

could someone please explain hashtables to me, how to use them and what they do since everybody is talking bout them and i do not even know what they are?

 

[Thanathos]

@palaslayer
as far as i know hastable are the same as gamecaches, the difference is a gamecache uses strings for saving data, a hastable is using integers. Now why uses integers instead of strigs ? Strings cause every they are created a very tiny leak (about 400kb or something) and there is no way to remove that.

 

[Yixx]

And in hashtables you can store almost ANY handle,,

 

[Thanathos]

yes but via H2I or GetHandlId we can store everything

 

[Yixx]

No, GetHandleId does not store anything,,
It allows us to store things with a unique ID, the one of the Handle.

 

[Thanathos]

obviously my words were not clear... what i really meant was storing a handles unique id in a hashtable (just as you explained). sorry.
But hey wait we can convert handles to integers via GetHandleId, but what is when we want to reconvert an integer back into a unit, for example. That won´t be possible will it ? I don´t know.......STFU Blizzard

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

Ha. I knew everyone using gamecaches and H2I would be kkilled someday.

Global arrays ftw much?

 

[Rmx]

Hashtables are slower than indexing but more safe in big maps.

Also hashtables must be used in systems such as knockbacks, because indexing may have some lag and ext.

But as far as i go, indexing is FTW faster and if recycled more efficient and safer in some way

 

[Eleandor]

hashtables are 4 times slower, which means they're faster already if you use more than 4 indices...

 

[Deuterium]

hashtables are 4 times slower, which means they're faster already if you use more than 4 indices...

It's gonna be a matter of nanoseconds if not picoseconds so it's not much of a big deal if you're not "efficiency obsessed"...

 

[Eleandor]

Well, if you're not efficiency obsessed you should use hashtables. Much cleaner code.

 

[Deuterium]

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Billy the Cat]

Edit: Problem solved and no more need for this post since I learned hashtables.

 

[PurplePoot]

See wyrm's tutorial in the GUI section.

 

[Linaze]

Here, if you're lazy.

 

[TomiTomo]

1.24 map

how to make a map become 1.24 ?

 

[PurplePoot]

Read this thread.

 

[krisserz]

@ TomiTomo go on Westfall server in wc3

Still don`t know when 1.24 will be ready?

 

[Weep]

I've found that the 1.24 patch currently available on Westfall completely breaks the trigger editor for Mac. Even the most basic triggers will come back reporting script errors (such as "Unregistered native function"), eg. the default Melee Initialization - disable the trigger and then try to re-enable it. World Editor worked fine with 1.23 non-beta.

The lines for the many reported errors correspond to the changed and new lines in Blizzard.j and common.j from War3Patch.mpq for 1.24.

PurplePoot, you appear to have some Mac association, what with your avatar being the Finder icon - could you weigh in on this, maybe confirm it?

Where could I report this crippling problem to Blizzard? I'd be hesitant to only send it to Blizzard Support, because previously (before any hint of 1.24) I'd sent them a question regarding the Mac version of World Editor being several revisions behind the Windows version, and they responded thusly:

Blizzard did not develop the editor and does not support it. We paid royalties to include it in our games, but we didn't create it. It was created by a 3rd party which has since gone out of business. I apologize for any inconvenience.

...which reeks of BS.

Suggestions? ("Run Windows" is a workaround and does not count.)

 

[Ciebron]

In spells, the entire section will be purged.

just what spell section need ^^

 

[PurplePoot]

I'll give it a shot when I'm on OS X later (I dual boot, need windows for work), but I wouldn't be surprised if that is primarily due to the patch being beta and not official yet (and thus they didn't bother to implement mac support).

 

[Dark_Dragon]

Do not want cJass. If I recall correctly it's obscure, complicated and only used by the Russians.

i am no Russian!
cJass is not a sucky tool, its an advanced vjass (so it requires vjass) which means all vjass code is acceptable + adds a lot of awesome features... vjass is just geting slower and slower, uses more objects, handle indexes which can only break TimerUtils limits...

cJass might be more complicated i agree, but thats an advanced vjass so...

cjass optimizes script, allows defines with multi lines so they are inlined and actualy defines in game never exist... as well they can be constants (but dont take memory like constant global variables)...

as i said before cJass is far more readable, since you can use vJass (if you want) and you can use advanced coding which cJass alows. so its up to coder. to me vjass codes (some spells) are fully unreadable, that is! its hard to find readable spells.

It's an obscure, complicated Jass variation that the Russians use.

There are only 2.

vJass (vexorian Jass), cJass (comes from programming language called 'C'), wJass (warlock Jass)

Cjass is good for users who know C++ and sometimes allow to do better code than vJass.

But... vJass much more older and have more usability.

if cjass has all that vjass has, then how can vjass be more useable?
anyway all other is like you said!

I'm guessing no GUI spells at all, then? That would be fun.

WILL, you tard. Read the thread.

I've been reading. I don't like what I've been reading. I thought we were finally refusing all GUI spells, seems like the rules have been changing in the last 4 pages.

why did you think that GUI spells are refused? Poot never said that...

Basically, any third party form of GUI will not be axcepted. Any GUI using stupid index systems with O(n) efficency or unnescescary index slot usage will not be axcepted as you can use hashtables which are only slightly slower than array handle index lookups to store stuff. Thus with GUI, you can still use arrays to hold data, but they must be used efficenly (no variable[variable[12]]) crap that I see so many spells do nowdays.

You can attach values to units and other objects using hashtables now, so instead of looping from 1 to 100 for your spell in all indexes it uses, you could simply enum through a group holding all units casting the spell and get their array index via hashtables ofthe unit itself. If you do not care about speed, you do not even need variable arrays and could run the whole thing off hashtables.

vJASS will still be allowed, so will structs as they are not stupid index systems. Unlike most of you believe, what people do in GUI is generally not how structs work. Structs have static indexes until they are destroyed and recycle indexes like below.

create struct returns 1
create struct returns 2
destroy struct 1
create struct returns 1
create struct returns 3
etc...

A lot of GUI systems do not have this feature and so clog up large numbers of indexes and even can leak handle indexes until recast 100s of times.

yeah! i did not understand people who thought that indexing is not allowed! Poot clearly said that indexing which just increases is not alowed! this ones which decrease are ofc allowed.

and structs work exactly like you said. but to say i did not saw such algorithm in GUI spells jet. maybe i missed it but it does not matter. current Paladon index system is quite good enough.


Greets!
~Dark Dragon

 

[Kwah]

1) If you read what you quoted, you'd see that WILL corrected himself.
2) DSG, while confused, did not say GUI was not allowed.

As to Paladon's system, last time I checked did not use any more complicated algorithm, and was quite slow because of this.

EDIT:

As to the whole cJass thing:

cJass might be more complicated i agree, but thats an advanced vjass so...

to me vjass codes (some spells) are fully unreadable, that is! its hard to find readable spells.

So cJass is more complex, AND more readable?

 

[Deuterium]

Complication doesn't decrease readability...

EDIT:
Excuse me, it's Complexity and not Complication

 

[Dark_Dragon]

1) If you read what you quoted, you'd see that WILL corrected himself.
2) DSG, while confused, did not say GUI was not allowed.

As to Paladon's system, last time I checked did not use any more complicated algorithm, and was quite slow because of this.

EDIT:

As to the whole cJass thing:




So cJass is more complex, AND more readable?

1) if you read what i said again! i did never say he did not correct himself. i even quoted all three posts and my question was: why was he thinking it back then when poot never said it?

2) i ever said that DSP said "GUI was not allowed"?

3) well i never check to much of GUI spells so i am not sure did Paladon change smth (when i saw the system it was acceptable) through i cant talk about it now since i did not check it. even so i dont believe that Paladons system would suck! if i remember correctly he was and / or is the best GUI-er so if his stuff sucks then i dont think someone made anything better.

once again as i remember Paladons system resets itself and i think its of acceptable speed... loops are quite slow so maybe we are already talking about miniseconds but i still dont care that much...

i am to lazy now to go check all this GUI algorithms since i dont like GUI but i dont hate it as well.

4) no wait! i think u got me wrong.

u said that cJass is more unreadable then vJass right?
so what i said is this:

many currently coded vJass spells here on HWS are to me unreadable and are to me so called code spaghetti few comments no tab usage... random variable names no ForGroup usage but loop with FirstOfGroup... no spaces between argumesnts... check some spells made by advanced coders which make a lot of lines 300+ lines and read that (you can know how hard it is to be mod) still there are some spells which are quite readable.

so what i am trying to say is this: both vJass and cJass are unreadable if they are in such a coder hands...

its not a language problem its a human problem that code is unreadable.

abot cJass being more complex its so logical! coz vJass is more complex then Jass.

to me i++, defines and such a stuff is fully readable
and btw whats more readable?

//! textmacro MyMacro takes CODELINE
     $CODELINE$
//! endtextmacro

//! runtextmacro MyMacro("call KillUnit(null)")

or

macro MyMacro takes CODELINE
     $CODELINE$
endmacro

_MyMacro("call KillUnit(null)")

i hope its more clear now what i wanted to say.
~Dark Dragon