Zephyr Challenge #6 - Poll

[Pyritie]

Contest Theme: AOE Summon

• You cannot vote for yourself. If a voter has the same IP as the author then the vote will not be counted and it may result in the disqualification of the entry.
• You cannot create multiple accounts to vote for an entry in the poll. If a voter has been found to be using multiple accounts none of the voters votes will count in the final result.
• You cannot bribe users for votes. Contestants who break this rule will be disqualified and given negative reputation.

• First Place: 40 reputation points and your entry on an award icon
• Second Place: 20 reputation points and an award icon
• Third Place: 10 reputation points and an award icon

Contestant Name	Spell Name
Gamecrafter_DK	Arcane Frostshard WIP
RaiN.	Lightning Shards
EMPerror	Pudger
Tukki	Molten Strike
scorpion182	Pentagram
Xiliger	Apocalypse
Duragon	The Fade
Deaod	Magic Chains
Eccho	Goblin Air Strike
TriggerHappy	Dune Worm
Kingz	Flame Ruin
White-Lion	Dark Ritual
ap0calypse	Descending Flame
xD.Schurke	Ritual of Vengeance
Maker	Nudgeball
Arcmage	Biomancy
Mage_Goo	Thunder Bird
Hemlock	Dimensional Influence

You can also download all of the entries at once by downloading the attached .zip file.​

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[Eccho]

Nice

Now I just have to find some time for this voting, probably tomorrow!

 

[aaron]

hmm voting on..........

 

[Kingz]

I voted for eccho,deaod and triggerhappy, their spells were my favorites ^^

Gl hf to all who participated

 

[Tukki]

Maker's, Deaod's & TriggerHappy's are the best!

 

[PurplePoot]

Downloaded six spells (ignored spells that sounded like they did not faithfully adhere to the theme or sounded too simple/too complicated). Of the ones I still felt followed the theme etc, here are my comments (and every one of them gets a vote). (Yeah, I didn't look at every spell, tough. Make better spells next time)

Eccho: Cool spell, but it could benefit from a pathing check for the mines (they piled up around doodads and buildings) and having them automatically explode if they landed on buildings, units, or doodads (destroyed if there is no pathing, and no delay before they can detonate).

Deaod: Pretty cool, no major complaints.

Duragon: Boring. It followed the theme but that's about all that could be said for it.

White-Lion: Also incredibly boring.

--

Eccho and Deaod get votes from me (I realize the rules say only one vote is allowed, but I talked to Pyritie and this doesn't actually seem to be the case).

 

[Eccho]

Eccho: Cool spell, but it could benefit from a pathing check for the mines (they piled up around doodads and buildings) and having them automatically explode if they landed on buildings, units, or doodads (destroyed if there is no pathing, and no delay before they can detonate).

Good point, Ill implement that when everything is over. The reason why I let them have a 5 seconds duration is that you could see the dropship and the mines, both counting as summoned units. If the latter one, then I'd have to follow the rules, saying they must last for at least 5 seconds.
Also thanks

 

[PurplePoot]

Does it have to summon units under every circumstance imaginable?

Also, some other ideas to consider:

• Have the dropship be able to be shot down.
• Have the mines be visible for a short duration but still detonate.

 

[Icoria]

the dune worm looks awesome!

 

[Vosty]

I got some work to do...

 

[PurplePoot]

the dune worm looks awesome!

The dune worm also isn't a summoning spell at heart (along with about 2/3 of the entries) and thus should be disqualified.

 

[RaiN.]

Description: Contestants must create a spell that affects a certain area, either targeted or on a specific unit. Sometime during the duration of the spell, a unit (or units) must be spawned for an amount of time.

I dont see why you hating so much...

 

[PurplePoot]

Because most people abused that description to the maximum extent they can.

Should I have submitted a triggered projectile spell and said "lol a unit was summoned"?

 

[Kingz]

If i may add,PurplePoot, the clarification of UNIT was poorly described in the begining, so you can't blame the users for making spells in the belief they didn't do anything wrong.

I said it once, and i say it again, the only reason people (ab)used units in these spells is because the term UNIT wasn't clarified detailed on contest start and therefore there is NO RIGHT REASON to disqualify those users.

If i am wrong, please post a link to a post of the hosting moderator proving me wrong.

 

[PurplePoot]

I doubt many people misunderstood so much as abused the possibility.

Also, if they misunderstood the definition of unit they should be disqualified for idiocy, because it's pretty obvious and shouldn't need clarification.

 

[cHeRoL]

dune worm ftw

 

[Asomath]

I described a "summoned unit" the way I wanted to. I know it could be tweaked, and people could go through loop-holes, but I thought the leaving open of the description would add for more possibilities, so we wouldn’t end up with too many of the same thing. It’s unfortunate that so many people decided to go through and we ended up with the same things anyway.

Dune Worm wasn't too bad. It was similar to Locust Swarm, in that the units weren’t controllable, but it was still a summon. But in Locust Swarm you can move the hero, and in a way puppeteer it. I would have liked it if people added such things as that to their spells, but oh well.

Anywho, I wanted to have a "summoned" themed Zephyr contest and I got it through. Next time I submit a contest, it'll be a theme without loopholes.

~Asomath

 

[PurplePoot]

I wouldn't define Locust Swarm as a summon spell seeing as it has no more interaction than immolation does.

Also, you don't have to leave the loopholes open. You could just disqualify everyone who abused them (which would take a large chunk of people out of the contest, but they had it coming to them).

 

[TriggerHappy]

Because most people abused that description to the maximum extent they can.

Should I have submitted a triggered projectile spell and said "lol a unit was summoned"?

I didn't even realize that this "abuse" had occured until I saw Duragon's posts where he stated his spell was the only one that was a true summon. By then I was already working on my spell and had made great progress and didn't want to start over seeing how everyone else was doing the same thing. Yes I know that doesn't mean it's right.

I didn't intend on searching the rules for loopholes.

You could just disqualify everyone who abused them (which would take a large chunk of people out of the contest, but they had it coming to them

You seem to think everyone intentionally didn't create a summon in the traditional way. It may be the case for some, but I highly doubt all the participants thought they were even abusing this loophole, since the description was vague enough as it is.

EDIT: And using locust swarm as an example is a bit misleading.

 

[Zack1996]

Lol. My spell wasn't included in the end

Anyway, I kinda like ap0calypse's spell and Kingz's. Arcmage's Biomacy was pretty cool too, but not in the top 3.

The Fade is not particularly amazing, but it is pretty good.

End Vote:
ap0calypse and Kingz. The other spells weren't really to my liking.
Sorry, Eccho, but the idea of having loads of Landmines didn't appeal to me.

Contest Rules

I wouldn't define Locust Swarm as a summon spell seeing as it has no more interaction than immolation does.

I agree. I personally don't see Locust Swarm as a summon. IMO, summoned units should not be defined in the way us spellmakers see it, since we essentially know that Dummy units are used in practically everything. Rather, it should be seen from the eyes of Warcraft players who have almost no knowledge of triggering.

As far as I'm concerned, summoned units should not work like special effects or anything, and would make players go:
"Oh, this is a summoning spell."
Because we look into the actual code and stuff of spells, we don't really see how players see it as. "Summoning Units" is really too vague.

EDIT: Woah. This closes on Christmas Eve?

 

[Duragon]

You seem to think everyone intentionally didn't create a summon in the traditional way. It may be the case for some, but I highly doubt all the participants thought they were even abusing this loophole, since the description was vague enough as it is.

If a user breaks a rule, whether it was done intentionally or unintentionally has no bearing on the consequences. They broke a rule, and the repercussions of that are entirely their own. Ignorance is not a legitimate excuse.

Anyways, I will avoid this discussion henceforth, since it may be interpreted as wholly self-serving as I partook of this contest.

 

[Deaod]

Gamecrafter_DK:

• Seriously? No. This doesnt even DO anything.
• Did you seriously try to use units dying as a periodic timer?

Arcmage:

• Oh, wow. This replaces units. Using GUI.
• And it replaces trees, in a very similar manner.
• I planned to comment on the code for each entry, but this is basically a CnP job of 5 minutes. Its horribly inflexible.

White-Lion:

• "Begins casting" -- Seriously. That fails.
• Not even MPI.
• Uses "Do Nothing". Just dont do anything, as even "Do Nothing" does something.

ap0calypse:

• Biggest downfall is that it hacks through the contests requirements.
• Pretty much an eyecandy-only spell, where the gameplay serves the effects.
• GUI. Surely one of the better spells in GUI, but GUI is still horrible.

Hemlock:

• I dont know, didnt like it that much...
• Again, GUI.

TriggerHappy:

• Well, the whole spell lives off the custom model. Without the model, the spell would be a lot less impressing.
• You could/should have used GroupUtils.
• Your little script to pick a random unit isnt exactly failsafe. It only works correctly once.
• Also, why do you use the .last member, if that member always contains the same information as the .target member does?
• what are the castX/Y members used for?
• CIRLCE_INT is unused.
• I like the use of that common.ai native, though.

Eccho:

• I must admit, i kind of liked this spell. Although i dont get how to detonate those mines.
• I dont like that you combined two objects into one struct. Other than that, the code looks fine to me.

Tukki:

• Errrr...Chain Lightning? Doesnt look too impressive. I mean, its pretty and all, but it isnt innovative.
• Why do you use summoned units? Because the theme requires you to? Well, spells should be designed around the theme, not made fit the theme.
• Im not too familiar with ZINC (and i dont really like it), but as far as i can tell, you could have used xefx.
• You, too, could/should use GroupUtils.
• I dont particularly like that Lightning Timer library.

Maker:

• I like the idea.
• I didnt like the implementation. Yet another knockback implementation.
• I dont like that you lose control over your nudgeballs, if you order them to do something.
• Looks a bit like its spamming effects.

scorpion182:

• Hacking around the theme.
• Hardcoded values inside the script.
• FirstOfGroup loops.
• Not a terribly innovative idea.

EMPer:

• No, a ground target spell wouldve done it as well. This has nothing to do with an AoE summon.
• Desyncs Macs.
• Didnt like the idea.

xD.Schurke:

• VERY complicated spell.
• You could/should have used GroupUtils.
• FirstOfGroup loops.
• Senselessly inlining TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ
• You could have outsourced many other things, such as dummy casts and most of the damage prevention mechanism.

Xiliger:

• Effect spam, imo.
• Hardcoded values.
• Horrible encapsulation.
• You should use GroupUtils.
• The overall idea was kind of a "meh".

Duragon:

• As i already said, its not exactly Pocket Factory, but sure feels like it.

Mage_Goo:

• Not quite sure, what to think of it. Dont really understand how this spell is supposed to be useful.
• You should use GroupUtils.
• Your Struct1.CanTargeted function has a lot of fluff.

Kingz:

• Well...I liked it a little bit. You can get a little bit lost because of all those effects, though.
• Youre inlining TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ senselessly.
• You could/should use GroupUtils.

RaiN:

• This doesnt follow the theme, not really. It looked cool, but i dont think its gameplay value is any good.
• Hardcoded values
• You should use GroupUtils.

Maker and Eccho are my personal favourites, so my vote goes to them.
I might just end up requesting permission to implement nudgeballs in vJass.

 

[Duragon]

FirstOfGroup loops.

If that's the only thing you could come up with, then I will take that as a compliment. (FirstOfGroup loops are fine, by the way) Also, I was going for a very simple but effective entry. I can see that sort of thing is lost on what I've met of this community, though, so in the future I will try things with more flash.

 

[Deaod]

Its certainly not a full-blown review. I wanted to get this over with quickly. Reviewing that much spells in a row is painful, you know that?

Also, FirstOfGroup loops are slower than the alternative (using the boolexpr).

 

[Duragon]

Its certainly not a full-blown review. I wanted to get this over with quickly. Reviewing that much spells in a row is painful, you know that?

I am sure, but still, it implies that there was nothing glaring.

Also, FirstOfGroup loops are slower than the alternative (using the boolexpr).

Err, but you can only have a boolexpr when performing the enumeration. Notice that the only FirstOfGroup loop is in the onDestroy method, well after the group has been populated, and that I don't even use a GroupEnum* native call, so there is no boolexpr to be had.

Anyways, even so, using the boolexpr or not is such a minimal savings for a spell of this nature that it is ludicrous to potentially dock someone for it. It is much like arguing about whether constant functions for configuration or global arrays are better. Something like using a FirstOfGroup loop should be chocked up to style, honestly, and not inefficiency of all things.

 

[Deaod]

Then i made a mistake. Sorry about that.

 

[Duragon]

It's okay, I just wanted to make sure that any judges perusing the thread didn't get the wrong idea. No hard feelings, of course.

 

[Kingz]

If i remember correctly people hesistated to use GroupUtils and other systems for the reason that on the last hero contest people got disqualified for using some systems that they belived was fine to use.

Anyway nice review.

 

[Eccho]

Does it have to summon units under every circumstance imaginable?

Also, some other ideas to consider:

* Have the dropship be able to be shot down.
* Have the mines be visible for a short duration but still detonate.

*Idea I was thinking on in the beginning to be honest.
*The mines is actually visible for two seconds (or one, don't remember) before they go invinsible and then detonates. I could make it more custom I guess, but that is how Blizzard's 'explode land mine' ability works.

Sorry, Eccho, but the idea of having loads of Landmines didn't appeal to me.

Tasty

Eccho:

* I must admit, i kind of liked this spell. Although i dont get how to detonate those mines.
* I dont like that you combined two objects into one struct. Other than that, the code looks fine to me.

*The landmines kind of explode like normal landmines are If an enemy walks nearby it, it will be triggered.
*Well, see, my first planning was and I the spell was finished first, with two structs, each handling the main data and each handling the clusters. However, since I mixed up something in my code, and couldn't figure out why the problem occured, I had to rework the spell with only one struct.... The issue I had in the beginning was, that for some reason, not all clusters got destroyed. I think my way of 'recycling' the loops overlapped and thus destroyed the way I coded it.

---
The thing I would be more concerned about in this poll is that TriggerHappy got a lead on over 50%... No offense now TriggerHappy, because you know it could be true. But you ended your final submission post by attaching a spellpreview video. I bet less than half of them actually looked through some of the spells here (but I could add, that it probably has happened on every single one of all the spells).
A post like "Woah, a dune worm" proves that. And I have to admit, your spell wouldn't be as much interesting if you wouldn't have the dune worm model, since it does do alot of things for you in the animations.

And no, that is not jealousy This poll doesn't weight too much anyway. I just wanted to say it.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Yes, I understand how other people may feel about my submission.

I just wanted to make it nice and formatted. And I had a WIP video I decided to post too.

It wasn't some scheme to get more votes, and like you said poll doesn't weight that much.

 

[Eccho]

Another sidenote, I find it very lame that there are people with hardly any posts who have came here and voted without looking at all submissions.
I see alot of users with less than 20 posts, and even 1 or ZERO posts...

 

[Kingz]

@Eccho

I think the fact that is hapening is the GIANT banner which is shown to all and therefore atracts even new members to come, and vote for triggerhappy's spell cause it is most eye apealing.
I bet half of the voters didn't even look at the other spells, the fact triggerhappy has such a high rating(his spell that is) only makes new members(which i doubt know much about spells) come and vote for him.

This is my opinon that is

 

[Hemlock]

Its certainly not a full-blown review. I wanted to get this over with quickly. Reviewing that much spells in a row is painful, you know that?

Also, FirstOfGroup loops are slower than the alternative (using the boolexpr).

If reviewing so much spells is so painful you shouldn't do it, and note that a review is an evaluation of the product you played/used or viewed, not a summary with a couple of personal issues you adress into people's spell.

I guess I should thank you for your review, atleast good to read what you feelings were about it, cause there is room for improvement in that spell.

Whether it's made in Jass or GUI doesn't matter as long as it's functionality remains (thats what we do after all GUI and Jass), obviously I know Jass is a more proper way to go with it, and surely functions would have helped me out a great deal, but I already do scripting all day, so I use GUI in my hobby to make a spell.

Additionally, I don't mind getting Critique at all (not even the way you do it), but for the sake of all other contestants, give them something they can bit it, not a rotten bone.

 

[Malcous]

The Duneworm spell is awesome

 

[Eccho]

and vote for triggerhappy's spell cause it is most eye apealing.

You mean, because he has a video.

And yet another user saying oooh, it's awesome, but yet doesn't say why. Don't get me wrong but I'd be as much pissed even if TriggerHappy's spell would be my spell.

 

[Pyritie]

I have a feeling I should remake this poll

Guess multiple choice didn't really work after all
Also maybe poot or someone can help with saying which entries should be disqualified...

 

[Cr34p]

So I just voted for Eccho and Archmage

About Eccho's spell: I just like the simpleness of the code and the effect, in addition it just looks fine

About Arcmage's spell: I like the idea behind it, the code is maybe not that efficient , but I don't mind^^


All other spells are just a bit lame or don't fit the theme in the way I thought they should.

Duragon: Solely because you have an area selection for your Object Editor spell, i doesn't mean that you are affecting units in an area...

TriggerHappy: Maybe the idea behind is nice... but it's just the model who does the effect, sorry but I would disqualify this one (along with some others) because they just doesn't fit the theme... or would you say Carrion Swarm would fit the theme?

 

[RaiN.]

Next time try to state the rules properly before wasting users time...

 

[Duragon]

Duragon: Solely because you have an area selection for your Object Editor spell, i doesn't mean that you are affecting units in an area...

Yes, it does, actually, if it means that the portal affects the whole area and that units can spawn at any point in that area (which is how it works). This is exactly how Rain of Chaos works, in case you were wondering, which was one of the properly-given theme examples. It spawns units at any point inside the area of effect, yet does not do some effect reliably to everything in the area.

I was really hoping that people would be able to figure this out on their own, but perhaps in the future I should just import an attractive model instead of trying to create spells that would actually make sense in the melee game.

 

[Cr34p]

ehm, wow at random location in a 100 aoe range?? hm nice affection of this area :O

 

[Duragon]

So change the constant. That's all you have to do with Rain of Chaos.

 

[Cr34p]

hm you know that rain of chaos stuns all units on impact + damages them that is what i've ment...

 

[Duragon]

Only around the summoned units, not to everything in the area. That is a special feature of the AOE summon, much like how in my spell, channeling being a requisite for the summons' existence is the special feature. That doesn't make it less of an area of effect summon.

 

[Dr. Boom]

Seas =)

Ok after I saw all spells, the following will get my vote points:

Tukki - Molten Strike

scorpion182 - Pentagram

Mage_Goo - Thunder Bird


~~~~~
All others did very good work as well - but I like this three =)

 

[Asomath]

Locust swarm was qualified as a summon to show that the summoned units don't actually need to be user-controlled, as long as they each attack on their own (Which the locusts do).

~Asomath

 

[Duragon]

The concept of an attack is abstract. The concept of a unit is not. It must be interactive with the players on some levels. Wards fit the theme because wards can be killed. If the spawned something can be controlled, then it is interactive with the owning player, and so forth. Locust Swarm can neither be controlled, killed, or otherwise interacted with at all. Thus, it does not qualify as a unit, but rather a special effect under the guise of a unit.

Attacking does not make something a unit. Being ordered to attack something in specific by the player, however, does.

 

[PurplePoot]

* The mines is actually visible for two seconds (or one, don't remember) before they go invinsible and then detonates. I could make it more custom I guess, but that is how Blizzard's 'explode land mine' ability works.

Yeah, but I mean both visible and able to detonate.

Whether it's made in Jass or GUI doesn't matter as long as it's functionality remains

Wrong. JASS is more portable, which is a huge advantage.

Also maybe poot or someone can help with saying which entries should be disqualified...

If you disqualified all the entries I thought should be disqualified you wouldn't have much of a contest. This is a huge hint to manage it better next time.

Next time try to state the rules properly before wasting users time...

The rules were pretty clear (Well, Locust Swarm being classified as a summoning spell was stupid, but they were otherwise clear).

Locust swarm was qualified as a summon to show that the summoned units don't actually need to be user-controlled, as long as they each attack on their own (Which the locusts do).

That's pretty stupid (as Duragon points out).

 

[Vosty]

To say it clearly, this theme was WAY too flexible. Because of the fact that summons are usually units that you can control, and AoE spells are spells that effect an area, this leaves you with about "this" (holds fingers one cenitmeter apart) much room to work with, and that room is already taken by something called "Rain of Chaos."
It seemed like a great theme at first, but after revieiwing the first half (I have more yet) I see that many of the units are SFX that only few are too theme.
I'd say, Eccho is probably the one I found most to theme so far. I not only summons a unit, but that unit summons units. Bad, though, that the mines explode by ability (Not because of inefficency but because this is a coding contest. In any other sitution I would prefer your way.) and the fact that you can't really fight the units.

Btw, DL the maps, you pigs. It is no joke that TriggerHappy has half the votes. I mean, he wasn't awful, but the SFX jsut blew you all away, and you didn't even DL half the maps, not to mention even HIS MAP!

EDIT: 666 posts! (Everyone has this stupid moment, stfu!)

 

[Asomath]

In Locust Swarm, you in a way pupeteer the units by using the casting hero.

~Asomath

 

[PurplePoot]

In Locust Swarm, you in a way pupeteer the units by using the casting hero.

So Immolation is a summoning spell?

Oh, and so is Storm Bolt; I puppeteer the projectile by moving my (targeted) unit.