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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Why Arena sucks.

Discussion in 'Hearthstone' started by Talavaj, May 9, 2014.

  1. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Hmm, which one of the worst classes are we gonna pick today ?

    [​IMG]

    Hey that is not a total shit ! (the pic is missing a faceless and a stampeding kodo that I somehow incorrectly cropped)
    Though why would we give you any cards under 3 cost that wouldn't be total garbage ? Or any spells at all !


    [​IMG]

    Hey how about a double power overwhelming imp or a double cold blood Agent ? GG - 3:0 Arena run.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  2. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    Well the point with Arena is to make weird and bizzare matches where you make do with what you get.

    Also Priest and Warrior might have lower chances of getting decks that are viable in arena than other classes but Hunter can go pretty far with almost anything.
     
  3. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    I'd say they are equally bad, hunter is good if he gets lucky but you generally won't draw enough beasts to make him worthwhile and his hero power is by far the worst in the arena.
    Still, yeah it would probably be better to run a hunter instead.

    The game gave me false hope with giving me some great cards (really the only bad cards I'd say were the kobold, bloodsail, mind vision, stormwind knight and divine spirit which I pulled only because there were absolutely no other low cost options or the rest was absolute garbage) and then totally faceroll me lol.
    In second match I was essentially reduced to half health on turn 2.

    Oh well. :p
     
  4. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

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    It is painful. There are times where you KNOW you have a great deck, and yet it fails because of RNG/your opponent's RNG. It sucks even more when you actually get a good legendary in it, too (e.g. I had a session where I had black knight and never got to use it because my opponents did not taunt [or I didn't have it in my hand]).

    That deck looks really great. I'm always surprised when cheap tactics actually work for people (e.g. double cold blood or double power overwhelming).

    But arena is weird. Instead of a balanced deck, sometimes it just requires enough turn-around cards. Kodo is a great option (basically, anything that kills a unit and gets board presence). That is one reason why rogues have good arena potential--cheap spells like sap, backstab, SI:7 Assassin etc. can clear the board and still give you potential to get board presence. It is kind of difficult for priests though. Smite is good, but if they get early board control, it is so hard to turn around due to a lack of AoE (holy nova is good, but it isn't enough). Turn-around as a priest usually doesn't happen til late game (e.g. Mind Control, deaths, etc.), so it really sucks when you get gibbed before that. :(

    But that deck still seems good to me. I'm surprised it didn't hold out long.
     
  5. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    As long as you don't get too many low value cards in a row or the opponent have an outrageous deck or direct counters to each and every of your plays then you've got a fighting chance.

    Priest have great value cards like Shadow Madness and Cabal shadow priest, shadow madness on harvest golem and trade makes for such of a good play it makes you moist from value overflow. Being situational cards it often come down to match making RNG to give you the right opponent which is a bit of a turn down since consistency is key to play in Arena continiously.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  6. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Yeah those are some cards I was looking for but I wasn't offered one.
    Despite some great cards the deck was just too slow and the opponents I went against had just very good early game.
    One deck was a rogue which was just as good as a constructed deck, removed my 2 drop with SI:7 and my harvest golem and then proceeded to double cold blood the agent, aand thats is pretty much how I lost lol.
    Second was a warlock with a flame imp which I stole with mind vision, he demonfired mine, shattered sun clericed his and then double power overwhelmed his imp aand that was pretty much GG.

    It wasn't that baad, but I finally lost to a very close match with a paladin who top decked Truesilver.
    The deck would probably go further if not for those first two disaster matches.
    But hey, got 40 gold so only 10 gold lost. And got a golden Keeper of the grove and a Misdirection in the pack, cards I kinda wanted coincidentally lol.
    And I'm at 1610 dust now lol.

    It's a bit depressing still lol, given I have got much farther with much worse decks. But I think the early game was just too slow.
     
  7. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    This too much, it's one thing to lose with a good deck and it's another thing completely after you've gotten far with some awful deck that wasn't even half as good.

    Makes it more apparent that it's mostly about who you get qued into and not so much you yourself can do about, which is really frustrating, just like with the many other RNG elements aswell.
     
  8. a Bear

    a Bear

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    Well arena is made so that everyone has the same chance to do good. Everyone is under the same situation as you, so it's about RNG ( / skill as in the way you build your deck solid, with luck of course, but still, luck can be pointed out as a skill ). You have gotten here Priest, Warrior and Hunter. Saying they are the 3 worst classes. For Arena priest can be usually pretty poor, as the deck build is so important. Warrior in other hand, can be made into a fairly ok deck. It's about RNG yes, but is not as essential, as with priest. But then Hunter. Hunter is one of the best classes for arena. You just pick every beast and damage spell you can get, and *blim, job done*. Arena can be hard sometimes, giving you hard enemies with your not so good deck, but when the RNG matches up correctly, you get paid for it, big time. You cannot say straight up arena sucks, as it is chosen By RNG. So it's random does arena suck for you, or not. Remember everyone else has the same line to start from, so it's a matter of time does it pay off. Also if you are gonna go on with that Hunter dead because of UTH 3 mana bullshit, you can just shush your mouth about replying to this post. Thank you.

    Edit:
    This is not meant to be offending to anyone, if you feel offended by this, please ignore.
     
  9. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    I personally think Warrior is worse than priest for arena, to make a good warrior deck you need even more class cards than for a priest. Priest have great class cards with high value that don't require any kind of synergy with your own cards while most warrior class card aren't very good on their own, besides the weapons.

    Warrior doesn't have reliable board clears without card synergy and the only hard removal is execute which also requires other factors.

    Until your post there haven't been any mention about hunter being dead, or it's recent nerf. I even mentioned earlier in this thread that I think hunter is one of the easier classes to get a viable deck with.:vw_wtf:
     
  10. Gilles

    Gilles

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    OP said that he got the three worst Arena classes. He didn't, and this guy was pointing out that Hunter is really good still.
     
  11. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    Well I can't say I know exactly what he ment, but I'm fairly sure that there's a pretty wide gap between not being among the strongest and being "dead".

    I too acknowledge that even if the most consistent deck wouldn't be a hunter it's most likely the easiest class to get a viable arena deck that can do fairly good 7+ wins if you're not too unlucky.

    Besides the thread topic there really haven't been any kind of bold statements or aggression until a Bear told people who think hunter is dead with the unleash the doggies nerf (which nobody even mentioned before here) could go **** off

    (op have had strong opinions in other threads about hunter but that isn't really related to what's being said here)
     
  12. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    Hunter, Warrior, Warlock and Priest are the worst classes for arena (in that order, priest being the worst).
    Sure he is the least bad from the bad half, but he is still bad.

    And that is not my "opinion" mind you, that is based on objective reasoning and actual arena data.
    AKA it is a hard fact that those classes lose more and win less than the other 5 classes so I don't really give a crap about your "opinion".
    Not even gonna bother explaining why the rates are like that (or why hunter is bad) because it is stupidly obvious.

    Also the thread was meant as a gag, not hurr durr FML ARENA SUCKS !
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  13. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    Your win/lose rate hard fact, it may not have to be true for everyone.

    Yeah that's how I recieved it, however others jumped the gun for no good reason imo.
     
  14. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    That is not my opinion but raw data gathered by HearthStats and ArenaMastery.
    The results are very much logical.
     
  15. a Bear

    a Bear

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    Ugh I just accidently clicked a link while writing a response... damn. But Death Adder the post was not directed to you, and the part where I mentioned doggies, I ment the post from talavaj on the HS thread, as I think Hunter is very strong in arena, that's what I've gotten the longest with and overall get the best runs. So it is not dead, very living, actually, I ment. Then also with warrior being worse than priest I'd say not. I've had warrior runs usually from 3-5 wins when the priest best for me has been 4, usually around 2-3 wins tough. Note that I played a long while priest as primary in ranked so I know the builds reasonable to try in arena. Synergy is bad with both, yes, totally agree, but warrior has a capability to go for a.. "Strength deck" which is on my opinion the most consistant build in arena for him, as you pick lots of low mana high hp and shields as much as possible, and take some big drops later. That's what gives me the best results usually.

    And Talavaj I seriously don't understand how is Hunter so low on those charts :/ Mage, Paladin and Rogue are the highest, not a surprise, but I'd tought Hunter would be higher. Well cant argue with stats. My own experience is fighting against this, but you're right on this one.
    Even tough I wouldn't say this :p
     
  16. Talavaj

    Talavaj

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    The problem with hunter in arena is that it is a class built on synergy. A lot of your cards need beasts, your class minions need beasts and you have less synergy with other neutral cards and your hero power is bad because it doesn't affect the game in any way. (generally hunter hero power is "eh let me click this because I have two extra mana")
    Because of how the random draft works you are likely to draw more pirates than beasts.
    Half of the time you won't even draw UTH.

    Hunter can be good, but he is the class most reliant on good cards. In arena you generally want a class that can do well with a wide variety of cards.
    That's why mage/paladin/rogue/shaman/druid are better, they have pretty strong class minions, good removal and a hero power that actively affects the board.

    I would say warrior is slightly better than priest, because weapons are good and warrior minions have slightly more value IMO.
     
  17. a Bear

    a Bear

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    Haha love that :D

    But yeah correct those classes are better of with a wider set of different cards. Guess I've always been very lucky building my hunters as I get usually at least like 6-7 beasts :p

    I think this has been wrapped up by now. Have a nice rest of the evening :)
     
  18. Ceday

    Ceday

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    Everyone were talking about how mages op in arena so I decided to try it, 2 times with 0 flamestrikes...
     
  19. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Yeah arena is luck of the draw to a large degree. Mage is the best though, hands down imo.
     
  20. Arcsol

    Arcsol

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    Arena can be pretty annoying, yeah :/ But I also think it's what makes it not dull.
    You get bad draws, you expect someone else gets bad cards as well.

    Mage is the best because of the flexibility in spells imo, always pick her without second thought xD. As for the worst.. I'd say hunter because of the need of specific cards, priest can still have a chance :p