1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. We have recently started the 16th edition of the Mini Mapping Contest. The theme is mini RPG. Do check it out and have fun.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Choose your ride to damnation in the 5th Special Effect Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The winners of the 13th Techtree Contest have been announced!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Vote for the best entries in the 13th Music Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

It's nerfing time.!

Discussion in 'Hearthstone' started by sentrywiz, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. RECENT NERF PATCH UP FROM SEPTEMBER 22

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/09/12/times-up-for-leeroy-jenkins-as-blizzard-finally-nerf-him-and-starving-buzzard/

    [​IMG]

    This will cost 5 mana and be a 3/2. Guess who is the new Magma Rager? Welcome to the never being used again club!
    Seriously though, now buzzard will be used in late-game hunter control / tempo decks. Rush lost its card draw momentum.

    [​IMG]

    This will cost 5 mana now. Okay, not a great nerf. It will still be played, but good thing is Miracle cannot hit you for 18 + 8 (if 2 cold blood are used) for a whooping 26 damage on turn 10 now. Also Handlock cannot Leeroy + Power Overwhelming + Faceless Manipulator for 20 damage to the face. And last, Hunter cannot abuse the Starving Buzzard + Leeroy + Unleash the Hounds for extra 2 doggies.


    Here is Trump's opinion on the recent change, and quite frankly I agree with him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx5yLgyE-hs&list=UUsQnAt5I56M-qx4OgCoVmeA

    Finally the meta is broken and we can now see other decks besides hunter, rogue, warlock + warrior/paladin control.
     
  2. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,692
    Resources:
    18
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    11
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    leeroy will be worth 1600 dust now, so I will instant disenchant mine and trade it for Archmage Antonidas or Black Knight.

    Good thing I got no hunter cards at all since I disenchant every single one. That nerf wont affect me at least :D

    now, nerf wise both of those nerfs are wrong in my opinion. Change leeroys damage to 5 would've been better. And the buzzard should have had the mana cost increased with 1, max 2
     
  3. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Blizzard is out of their minds, I swear they just don't have the capacity to manage a CCG but whatever. Does anybody even play the game anymore ?
    I agree with trump though that Buzzard may be the worst card in the game now. Buzzard won't be in late-game decks, or in any other hunter deck because there won't be any hunter left to play them.
    Cult Master + UTH is a better alternative to Buzzard. (if you want a really bad Sprint, which is already bad)
    It is just retarded.

    I also like how they didn't do anything about auctioneer which was clearly an abused mechanic with no workarounds, yet just HAVE TO nerf a class to death because of a potentially strong combo that is easy to work around.
     
  4. Leeroy will still be playable but not in the way it was abused before. Note that you can still pull a 10+ damage with leeroy and in rogue, you could shadowstep once then burn both cold blood for a 20 damage. But that happens on turn 10 so its a bit better for control decks now.

    Hearthstone is a really really good TCG. I doubt it will ever die. This nerf in particular is a bit too much, but I guess Blizzard have their stats and I do believe that more than 50% of the playerbase plays hunter. They don't want to simply move the game up a notch with 1 mana increase in cost, no they want the meta to break with the whooping +3 mana cost.

    And I agree with them. Any meta gets the game stale and boring. You are either playing a meta deck or an anti-meta deck. All those other cards go to waste, because you what is the best and everything else simply doesn't cut it. And that's bad for any TCG.

    I think Buzzard will be played in late-game hunter control decks. I don't completely agree with Trump that the hunter is now dead, but I agree that the hunter rush/early aggro decks won't be as powerful as before. I play hunter rush and I don't need the draw combo, so this doesn't change much for me. I kill efficiently with just having Tracking + Loot Hoarder in the deck.

    Cult Master + Unleash is possibly the new way to draw in hunter now if you want to keep the dream alive. We'll just have to wait and see how the new meta will shift.
     
  5. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Killing a build, or a class is not a competent way to balance something. And that is unfortunately what Blizzard has been doing since day 0.
    This is especially sad considering there are obvious ways to fix these problems without making things unusable.

    The meta is stale because there just aren't nearly enough cards and because the class system extremely limits what is viable and what is not.
     
  6. They make the cards, its the players that use the cards. And players often find ways to abuse the cards. Since Blizzard cannot possible tell players how they should be playing their own decks, instead they nerf a card or change a mechanic.

    Meta isn't stale because there is lack of cards. I believe there are more than enough cards. The problem is players rarely use more than 20-30% of their card collection.

    An example would be: every deck is good with a Knife Juggler, Wild Pyromancer and Acidic Swamp Ooze. So there, I just took care of every deck in my collection and added the best 2 mana drops. So Blizzard do the most logical thing, nerf the cards so that players will now see them as more equal in stats and mana cost before deciding "Aha yes, I like this card's effect more than this card" rather than "this card is just straight out better than this card in every way so there's no point in adding this card"

    Bottom line is, the buzzard was too good for its cost. You would never put any other card draw card in hunter because you had buzzard. Well now you don't, so if you want card draw you will have more choice. Maybe now you will play loot hoarder and flare instead of your wombo-combo.

    Same for leeroy, it cost 1 more and now you are forced to find other sources of to the face. Maybe play that arcane golem that has been collecting dust in your collection. Because leeroy was better than arcane golem in every way, so now Blizzard said ok, now there will be a trade-off between leeroy and other charge cards so that players will genuinely have to choose between this trade-off and this trade-off.

    Change is always difficult to accept, but in the long run you will like it.
     
  7. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Or because hunter has no other card draw. Flare and tracking aren't card draws, they are thinning cards to allow you to draw into the combo faster. Without Buzz + UTH there is NO reason to run either of them.
    Wow yeah, you have now more choice to put in crap that does not synergize at all ! Sweet ! (actually you have less choice because buzzard is now a no-go, yeah !)

    And of course Leeroy would be better than an arcane golem, it is a legendary you can have only one of.
    So if Arcane Golem is just as good or better (because you have two in the deck instead of one) why would I even want Leeroy now ?

    Because 80% of cards are unusably bad, not that the others are too good.
     
  8. Tracking is a fishing spell yes. But flare isn't card draw?
    How is flare not a card draw? Is draw 1 card not good enough for you?

    See, this is where your logic is -- drawing into the combo.
    You're still thinking that the combo is everything.

    Hunters rarely win with the combo. A good hunter deck doesn't rely on the combo to win.
    Its good if it happens, but its not the end all mean all.

    A glass cannon like Hunter that already deals way too much damage SHOULD NOT get the best card draw combo in the game.
    This is why its bye-bye buzzard.

    And every card MUST synergize? Every card must be combo potential?
    This is the problem with hunters. Because they want everything to either speed the combo or buff the combo.

    And while they collect the combo, the other hunter goes to their face with stuff that might not even be beasts.

    Leeroy was GREAT, now its good. +1 mana changes plenty, now I will think about if I want to play a Wolf Rider, Arcane Golem, Leeroy or Argent Commander. They each have their pros and cons.


    What server are you on? If you're on EU, add me. #1759
    I'll play my non-buzzard hunter, you play your buzzard hunter.
    Let's see which theory sticks more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2014
  9. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    I don't play hunter, or Hearthstone for that matter.
     
  10. Then why do you bother with Hearthstone?
     
  11. Tonex

    Tonex

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Hate is free
     
  12. Lol. Well played sir
     
  13. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    Maybe I'm still hoping that Blizzard is going to do something with the game to get me back playing ?
    Making poorly executed nerfs is definitely not it though.
     
  14. Ah ok if you quit hearthstone.
    I thought you never played it but still rant about it that's why it didn't made sense to me.

    Well my friend has a similar opinion. He was a big hunter fan, has almost all the hunter cards and plays exclusively hunter. But with this nerf, I hear him say similar things what you say. Well if you really don't like Hearthstone anymore, that's fine there are other TCG's out there that might suit your fancy more.

    But if you quit hoping that Blizzard would change their minds, think again, why would they? I've already explained in too many words why this nerf is a good thing, even if you don't see it that way. And I bet Blizzard can explain it way better than me, after all they have all the statistics that let them decide that this was the most plausible thing to do.
     
  15. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,692
    Resources:
    18
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    11
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    I disagree. Leeroy will be thrown out of the meta. I got around 6-8 class mates that play hearthstone daily and 80% of us got leeroy by crafting it or just being lucky. We've all agreed on disenchanting him and trade him for another legendary that's better, like a class legendary like Tirion/Archmage and such.

    Just compare those 3 cards:

    Leeroy - 5 mana, 6,2, summon minions
    Argent Commander - 6 mana, 4,2, divine shield
    Arcane Golem - 3 mana, 4,2, give enemy one mana crystal

    Leeroy is not even a legendary anymore he is equal to a rare card.
     
  16. Talavaj

    Talavaj

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,093
    Resources:
    6
    Models:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    They fixed nothing, they made a bunch of cards unusable because they don't have the intellectual capacity to fix the inherent flaws.
    This is the issue.
     
  17. Tonex

    Tonex

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    457
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I heard a rumor that the Buzzard nerf is basically a soft ban on Hunter for the WCS at Blizzcon. It was said that the nerfs would be the last before Blizzcon, making some people think it'll get unnerfed afterwards. I'm not sure that it'll pan out exactly that way, but I agree that for the WCS, they need to strongly discourage Hunter as to prevent Hunter from being the main class played.
     
  18. Blizzard's words on the nerf (the important stuff):

    Leeroy Jenkins created a strategy that revolved around trying to defeat your opponent in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. Fighting for board control and battles between minions make an overall game of Hearthstone more fun and compelling, but taking 20+ damage in one turn is not particularly fun or interactive. This was occurring when Leeroy was used in combination with other cards like Power Overwhelming, Faceless Manipulator, Cold Blood, Shadowstep, and Unleash the Hounds, among others.

    The amount of cards Starving Buzzard allowed Hunter players to draw ultimately ended up being too excessive for its low cost. This change will allow the Hunter’s opponent more time to react to both the Starving Buzzard and the cards drawn by its power.


    Which cards are unusable? The only card that will be used NOT AS MUCH (mind my wording, I didn't say unusable) will be buzzard. They didn't break ANY OTHER CARDS. The beast cards still work as they should. They only took the thing that Hunter never should of had in the first place: excessive draw combo for such a low mana cost. You basically sit and suck on your finger as the Hunter in one turn gained at least 3 cards and possibly murdered 80% of your board. You are left with your same hand while he has card advantage and board advantage for what mana cost? 5! At its worst!

    That's a rumor I haven't heard. But your logic makes sense, because they could of done this nerf way back. I don't think its to discourage Hunter play, but to disallow easy board control + threat + answer + fishing + card draw ALL IN 2 card combo. After all, they are right - hearthstone is fun by taking board control over the entire game, not gaining it in one single turn.
     
  19. Gilles

    Gilles

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    8,463
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Talavaj, you just whine and complain in every thread in here. If you don't like the game or what Blizzard does with it just leave.

    On-topic: The nerf was way overboard, but Hunters needed some nerf. UTH Buzzard was a stupid combo. I don't think hunters are dead though. I've been playing a non-unleash deck for a bit (when I need to complete Hunter quests), and it does fine. Nothing amazing, but decent.

    THANK GOD for the Leeroy nerf. I hate him. So much. They eliminated a bunch of OTK, but left him in to do his insane damage for Miracle Rouges and Hand Locks. Now both should be more manageable by late game decks.
     
  20. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,692
    Resources:
    18
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    11
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    18
    Really? I don't think you can reach bellow rank 15 with such a deck tbh. Without that rather OP combo that is. And if a deck can't manage that, it's dead, because who would like to play it? other than doing the quests possibly.