Which do you think is the worst and/or weakest Warcraft 3 hero?

[Mgeterno11]

As the title says. If you give us and example, try to tell us why?

 

[Xonok]

As the title says. If you give us and example, try to tell us why?

All of them are equally powerful, it only depends on your playstyle if any of them are better.

I especially like blood mage, as it allows me to cast spells for as long as anyone else can. (While the weak side is having no instant or direct damage spells and that flame strike also damages friendlies)

 

[Mgeterno11]

I really agree with you.
But the Death Knight is really weak, it can be killed quickly when melee units surrond him and ranged units. And i know i should use teleporting away, but the dk loses hitponts so quickyl that when i am about to move him away and tp away, he is already dead. I mean, he should have 4 armor instead of 3. The same goes to demon hunter.

 

[Xonok]

I really agree with you.
But the Death Knight is really weak, it can be killed quickly when melee units surrond him and ranged units. And i know i should use teleporting away, but the dk loses hitponts so quickyl that when i am about to move him away and tp away, he is already dead.

Except that he has enormous health recovery. Just use death pact(on skeletons if you don't want to lose units)

 

[Mgeterno11]

Oh, thanks, i do not use this spell, but i will then. Maybe then he will be much more powerful.

 

[Xonok]

Oh, thanks, i do not use this spell, but i will then. Maybe then he will be much more powerful.

Warcraft is a game of combinations - Everything fails if you don't combine it well.
Especially good combinations - Blood mage siphon mana(can also be used to give mana to friends) + Mountain king storm bolt and thunder clap.
Shadow hunter big bad voodoo + anything that deals high damage.
Thorns aura + mountain giant(especially with maxed armor)
Fire lord Summon fire spawn + Blood mage siphon mana

Also, animate dead might synergize well with death pact.

 

[Mgeterno11]

Thanks for your idead, mate. I will use them.
I know and try to control heroes better everytime, but with some heroes, it is harder to do it. But i will practise.

 

[GhostThruster]

Priestess of the Moon. Useless in any build but mass archers.
Alchemist. Useless at everything.
Pit Lord. Useless at everything.
Crypt Lord. Useless at everything, except maybe impale + mass ghouls for good surrounds.
Keeper of the Grove. Only decent ability is entangle roots.

Above are worst heroes imo.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Priestess of the Moon is a must have in 4v4 but also excellent in 3v3. In 2v2 it is good if you do a strategy like Hunters + Fiend or Hunters + Head hunters. More ranged unit, more powerful the aura is. Also owl is the best scout in the game and very good in FFA matches.

Pit Lord is good. I often use it with Archmage and Bloodmage. Blizzard, Flamestrike and Rain of Fire together deals a lot of damage. With undead pit lord is useful too, just fire rain and heal it with death knight so won't die.

Crypt lord goes very well with Death Knight and Lich. An excellent third hero with impale. Also Crypt lord is good solo hero too when you build fiends. Of course death knight is recommended as second hero when crypt lord is leveled enough(3 or 4).

Keeper of the grove is superb with heroes like far seer. Entagle + some attacks and even grunts go easily down at the beginning. Later entagle is an excellent hero killer.

About Alchemist, that I can agree.

 

[Mgeterno11]

I agree with both of you. But for me, all these heroes are useful, though Keeper of the Grove is a bit weak, it should be kept away from enemies, and he should just attack form far.

Priestess of the moon's starfall spell deals a lot of damage to enemies, and destroys them quickly. The searing arrows is also a good spell.

I rarely use alchemist. But the healing spray is a really good healing spell. the chemical rage can do a lot of damage to enemies. And ogre rage gives him extra speed and attack. But the alchemist is really easy to kill. The transformation gives gold, so if you lack in gold, it is useful. But he should have more armor and better spells, though.

 

[GhostThruster]

youve listed incredibly niche situations, or situations where other heroes do a much better job. ill give u potm, since i was only thinking of 1v1s when listing her, however:
a decent player can micro out of channel spells like those, or cancel them with bolt. in fact, mountain king is way better with archmage + blood mage. everyone goes for water elemental and brilliance aura anyways, blizzard is only good vs siege units like glaives and buildings.

crypt lord is horrible and is begging to be surrounded. its fat and slow, and cant protect ur fiends like a dk. dark ranger is way better with dk and lich.

keeper of the grove's only useful ability is entangle, and even then, the kotg dies too easily + entangle can be dispelled.

alchemist's spray is the worst ability in the entire universe. it heals enemies, plus it heals like 50 hp. holy light or even priests are way better. the alchemist is retarded because it tries to be a dps, but also a nuker, but also a healer. if it just had consistent abilities, it would be decent. like he would be good support with:
Mobile Vendor - summons a temporary shop. Higher levels have better items sold.
Healing Spray - aoe healing salves units, can target enemies. Healing spray heals over time, but is cancelled when the unit is attacked.
Smoke Potion - throws a flask that explodes in smog, slowing down and reducing the armour of all units in the smog.
Chemical Rage - drains mana while activated, but increases movement speed and attack damage by heaps.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

I would only do Archmage + Blood mage in 3v3 and 4v4. Of course I would do a hero like Mountain King in 1v1 and 2v2. Blizzard is good against units in bigger matches. At least a lot better than water elemental.

Crypt lord is sexy, I love to use it, but of course not too much. Crypt lord, spiders, statues, abos and death knight is average tactic in 1v1. Of course with that tactic you won't win the best players in the world but I've won pretty good players with this tactic. It's boring always to do death knight as your first hero.

If we're talking about "what heroes die too easily", heroes like Arch Mage, Kotg, potm, far seer, all those go to the same category. So it's a bit stupid to talk about what heroes are weak. There are three categories and all heroes go to these categories with about same health: Agi, int and str.

And I don't even want to talk about Alchemist. It's just horrible.

 

[Xonok]

Priestess of the Moon. Useless in any build but mass archers.
Alchemist. Useless at everything.
Pit Lord. Useless at everything.
Crypt Lord. Useless at everything, except maybe impale + mass ghouls for good surrounds.
Keeper of the Grove. Only decent ability is entangle roots.

Above are worst heroes imo.

PoTM - Mass archers is how you would try to abuse her aura, that doesn't make her useless elsewhere. Starfall is just epic and searing arrows does good damage. Btw, she gives damage to quite about any NE unit, so it's far from mass archers.
Alchemist - If used right, then this hero is quite powerful. Don't just force heroes into niches. Healing spray is an awesome heal ability, just don't be dumb with it, as it heals enemies. 120 - 350 healing to every unit in the area. It's far better than most healing abilities. Acid bomb - I guess you just never get armor upgrades. This thing kind of takes down the upgrades, which is a huge bonus in the endgame. Chemical rage - burst DPS, what more is there to say. In warcraft you are not meant to have 1 hero tank a whole army, so I don't get why you say hes weak. Transmute - instakill an enemy AND get gold. That's too weak for you?
Pit lord - Crazy masskiller and reduces enemy damage greatly, which makes him an even greater masskiller. Also, doom creates a doom guard, which is also a masskiller. This unit is almost as niche as it can get. However, this is one of the most useful ones.
Crypt Lord - stun + damage. Also spawns minions for extra tank. Anything attacks it gets damaged and it also has nice armor. This is an awesome tank. Surrounded? You kidding? If your hero gets surrounded in warcraft, then you are playing very poorly.
Keeper of the grove. Thorns aura + mountain giants with researched armor is just awesome.

Overall, you just listed some random heroes that don't have any common weaknesses. I guess you just haven't learned to play any of them.

 

[GhostThruster]

potm - starfall is useful in team games, so is trueshot. searing arrows is useless, you want dps, you choose trueshot or you dont train this hero and u go demon hunter or warden. ive admitted i was wrong about this hero, unless were talking about 1v1s. so no use arguing about her anymore.
alchemist - every point is just ur fucking exaggerated opinion. observe as i replace some key words 'if used right, then the wisp is quite powerful. dont just think the wisp build shit. restore is an awesome ability, just dont be dumb with it, as it costs resources. heals every mechanical unit. its far better than holy light, which cant even target mechanical units. detonate - guess you never seen a summoned unit. this thing can take down a 100 water elementals, provided they are all on 100 HP and in a small area of effect, which is a huge bonus for endgame where archmages spam them. special lumber harvest - unlimited lumber, what more is there to say. special gold harvest - hides inside a mine AND get gold. that's too weak for you? the wisp is very powerful'
pit lord - because in wc3 there are massive armies. again youve done the same shit you did with the alchemist, just spout out some bullshit compliments that can be applied to any unit/ability in the existence of rts gaming.
crypt lord - same crap youve said before. plus he has fucking terrible armour, 5 at level 10. bm has 5 at level 1. you clearly havent seen a pro game. surrounds are very common kid.
kotg - seriously ffs. i could make any old shit seem like the best build ever 'vampiric aura + mass militia with researched attack is just awesome'.

xonok, in short ur opinions arent backed up except by overly situational and positively exaggerated strategies. i would like to get ur opinion on wat the worst heroes are, since ur such a pro ("crypt lord has nice armor" just lol). i wouldnt be surprised if u said something like 'blademaster is worst because wow windwalk u can just counter with shades'.

@aero: but archmage and far seer have more than 1 decent ability. u raise fair points, unlike xonok who is patronising and tells me i listed a bunch of heroes ive never played with.

 

[Xonok]

potm - starfall is useful in team games, so is trueshot. searing arrows is useless, you want dps, you choose trueshot or you dont train this hero and u go demon hunter or warden. ive admitted i was wrong about this hero, unless were talking about 1v1s. so no use arguing about her anymore.
alchemist - every point is just ur fucking exaggerated opinion. observe as i replace some key words 'if used right, then the wisp is quite powerful. dont just think the wisp build shit. restore is an awesome ability, just dont be dumb with it, as it costs resources. heals every mechanical unit. its far better than holy light, which cant even target mechanical units. detonate - guess you never seen a summoned unit. this thing can take down a 100 water elementals, provided they are all on 100 HP and in a small area of effect, which is a huge bonus for endgame where archmages spam them. special lumber harvest - unlimited lumber, what more is there to say. special gold harvest - hides inside a mine AND get gold. that's too weak for you? the wisp is very powerful'
pit lord - because in wc3 there are massive armies. again youve done the same shit you did with the alchemist, just spout out some bullshit compliments that can be applied to any unit/ability in the existence of rts gaming.
crypt lord - same crap youve said before. plus he has fucking terrible armour, 5 at level 10. bm has 5 at level 1. you clearly havent seen a pro game. surrounds are very common kid.
kotg - seriously ffs. i could make any old shit seem like the best build ever 'vampiric aura + mass militia with researched attack is just awesome'.

xonok, in short ur opinions arent backed up except by overly situational and positively exaggerated strategies. i would like to get ur opinion on wat the worst heroes are, since ur such a pro ("crypt lord has nice armor" just lol). i wouldnt be surprised if u said something like 'blademaster is worst because wow windwalk u can just counter with shades'.

@aero: but archmage and far seer have more than 1 decent ability. u raise fair points, unlike xonok who is patronising and tells me i listed a bunch of heroes ive never played with.

All I am saying is that the heroes are very balanced. Troll on, as you haven't raised any points, you're just laughing over mine. Learn to debate you troll.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

All I am saying is that the heroes are very balanced.

Definitely not the heroes are balanced, otherwise people wouldn't use Blademaster and Demohunter 95% of their games.

 

[Xonok]

Definitely not the heroes are balanced, otherwise people wouldn't use Blademaster and Demohunter 95% of their games.

Some are easier and more fun to use. However, I've noticed that in the leagues even night elves tend to use pandaren brewmaster and warden instead.
Different heroes are for different skill levels. Blademaster and demon hunter are just some of the easiest.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Yes I get some heroes are easier to play but still the best players use Blademaster. That hero is simply too imbalanced(why the heck they made that windwalk can go through units? I don't get it). Demon hunter isn't that strong, but still the second strongest hero?

 

[Xonok]

Yes I get some heroes are easier to play but still the best players use Blademaster. That hero is simply too imbalanced(why the heck they made that windwalk can go through units? I don't get it). Demon hunter isn't that strong, but still the second strongest hero?

I could argue that blood mage is OP, but it would lead us nowhere. "I'll take all your mana and banish you. You can't use wind walk to escape, because you won't have mana"
Blood mage + tauren chieftain is especially good against masses. Tauren is tanky and can stun. Also it has shockwave. Basically this combination kills masses very well as long as blood mage has someone to siphon mana from.

 

[saphiree]

Not to sound like a complete douche, but I'm pretty sure that blizzard balanced the game out to 1v1, because that is "what matters". I don't know which heroes are worst, but in competitive play, I'm pretty sure, that some heroes are almost never used, and the Blademaster and I think Demon Hunter are some of the best.

 

[Xonok]

Not to sound like a complete douche, but I'm pretty sure that blizzard balanced the game out to 1v1, because that is "what matters". I don't know which heroes are worst, but in competitive play, I'm pretty sure, that some heroes are almost never used, and the Blademaster and I [/I]think[/I] Demon Hunter are some of the best.

I have to agree. I can think of a few combinations that would completely break the game for non-ranged units, but those combinations require 3 players.

 

[GhostThruster]

theres no debate, youre points are retarded. and when i say ur wrong u call me a troll or say i lack knowledge in wc3.

 

[Xonok]

theres no debate, youre points are retarded. and when i say ur wrong u call me a troll or say i lack knowledge in wc3.

You didn't even bring up a single point where I was wrong, you just outright said that I am. This is trolling.

alchemist - every point is just ur fucking exaggerated opinion. observe as i replace some key words...
pit lord - because in wc3 there are massive armies. again youve done the same shit you did with the alchemist, just spout out some bullshit compliments that can be applied to any unit/ability in the existence of rts gaming.
crypt lord - same crap youve said before. plus he has fucking terrible armour, 5 at level 10. bm has 5 at level 1. you clearly havent seen a pro game. surrounds are very common kid.
kotg - seriously ffs.

xonok, in short ur opinions arent backed up except by overly situational and positively exaggerated strategies. i would like to get ur opinion on wat the worst heroes are, since ur such a pro ("crypt lord has nice armor" just lol). i wouldnt be surprised if u said something like...

You are right that there was no debate.

 

[Wazzz]

Exhibit A:

All I am saying is that the heroes are very balanced. Troll on, as you haven't raised any points, you're just laughing over mine. Learn to debate you troll.

Exhibit B:

PoTM - Mass archers is how you would try to abuse her aura, that doesn't make her useless elsewhere. Starfall is just epic and searing arrows does good damage. Btw, she gives damage to quite about any NE unit, so it's far from mass archers.
Alchemist - If used right, then this hero is quite powerful. Don't just force heroes into niches. Healing spray is an awesome heal ability, just don't be dumb with it, as it heals enemies. 120 - 350 healing to every unit in the area. It's far better than most healing abilities. Acid bomb - I guess you just never get armor upgrades. This thing kind of takes down the upgrades, which is a huge bonus in the endgame. Chemical rage - burst DPS, what more is there to say. In warcraft you are not meant to have 1 hero tank a whole army, so I don't get why you say hes weak. Transmute - instakill an enemy AND get gold. That's too weak for you?
Pit lord - Crazy masskiller and reduces enemy damage greatly, which makes him an even greater masskiller. Also, doom creates a doom guard, which is also a masskiller. This unit is almost as niche as it can get. However, this is one of the most useful ones.
Crypt Lord - stun + damage. Also spawns minions for extra tank. Anything attacks it gets damaged and it also has nice armor. This is an awesome tank. Surrounded? You kidding? If your hero gets surrounded in warcraft, then you are playing very poorly.
Keeper of the grove. Thorns aura + mountain giants with researched armor is just awesome.

Overall, you just listed some random heroes that don't have any common weaknesses. I guess you just haven't learned to play any of them.

Okay. I have a couple of points to raise about this childish behavior.

Exhibit A is an ironic post which makes a mockery of itself all due to the final line:

'Learn to debate you troll'.

Calling someone a 'troll' does not instantly win you an 'argument', it never has, and never will. End of story on that one.

Exhibit B further emphasizes the irony in Exhibit A (even though Exhibit B came before Exhibit A chronologically, I could not care less). You provide slipshod reasonings why these Heroes are useful with the generally broad reasoning 'it's good if you use it right'. Anything is good if you use it right, what defines it as 'good' or 'bad' is just how situational the item is.

Now, to the original topic. The reason Keeper of the Grove is one of the least useful heroes is because Tranquility is its only really good ability. Entangling Roots is also fantastic, but that's about it. Now, one might say 'but you admit Tranquility is fantastic', and that is correct, yes indeed I do. It heals all friendly units in a massive area and has a really short cooldown coupled with a low mana cost for an Ultimate abliity.

But that's just it. It's an Ultimate ability. You are relying on this hero getting to level 6 just to be viable, up until then, you are going to alternate between Entangling Roots and filler. It's not completely useless, granted, but it is overshadowed by the multitudes of other Hero options you can get from the Altar of Elders or the Tavern.

Priestess of the Moon is also one of the less useful heroes. Searing Arrows adds nice damage at the cost of mana every time you attack, making it difficult to use Starfall (another Ultimate abliity, I might add, which is overshadowed by anything that stuns it during channeling) without sacrificing a crucial part of the PotM's power. Trueshot Aura is the only really viable thing, although I do like Scout and it is handy for early detection. The pros, however, prefer Dust of Appearance and/or Faerie Fire.

Goblin Alchemist is one of those incredibly situational heroes. It has the health of a tank, but its lack of agility gives it such a low armor rating that, iirc, it actually takes extra damage from attacks at level 1. That is not really good. Simple way to avoid it being used effectively against you is to spread your units out and keep its mana low as it has no active passive abilities. Transmute is good, but again requires level 6. Isn't really good for an ultimate ability unless your opponent has one Frost Wyrm and decided 'Frost Wyrms aren't really working for me', so there's that. I would like to use him just because of how under-utilized he is, though.

Pit Lord. Doom is a nice (Ultimate) abliity, as it kills an enemy unit AND gives you a Doom Guard for a short while. But I would rather have the Dreadlord's Inferno for a couple of reasons. First of all would be that the Infernal creates an impact when it is summoned, stunning units as it appears. That is nice. Secondly, it is immune to magic, or at least it used to be, now I think it just has Resistant Skin which I think the Doom Guard has now, so they're kind of on par with each other a little more. Anyway, people generally don't use either of the heroes who have access to these abilities and honestly, I think you spend too much time thinking about the Ultimate abilities rather than thinking about what you will do in the event you cannot achieve level 6 on any of your heroes.

Crypt Lord's summons... I don't really like them personally. I like his Impale ability in the right situations, as stunning everything down a line is really nice. It's generally not used, but I think it's one of the better heroes in the list, personally. Its passive gives it extra armor and deals damage back like its own personal Thorns Aura. Except Thorns Aura wasn't enough to redeem the Keeper of the Grove.



On a side note, in professional level play, Night Elf players generally use the Demon Hunter, Warden, Naga Sea Witch, Beast Master or the Pandaren Brewmaster. Undead players generally use Death Knight, Lich and Dark Ranger. By which I mean the one match I saw where they didn't go that combination, they had a Naga Sea Witch for some strange reason. All the Human heroes have their use and Human players generally don't use the Tavern (not always, but generally).

Orc players generally don't use Far Seers or Tauren Chieftains, although I believe they are more likely to use the Tauren Chieftain. So I would put the Far Seer as /one/ of the most useless heroes in the game, but as we all know, 'if you use it right then it is good'. What a horrible reason for something not being classed as the 'worst' out of a group of things.

Now, as you may have noticed, this post was really long and my fingers are bleeding. Any opinions/argument against what I have stated are welcome, just don't use the 'you're just a troll' as an 'insta-win' command. We know that means you can't come up with a reasonable argument to back up your points. You're not fooling anybody.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Far Seer is sexy. When I play with orc I more likely use Far Seer than Blademaster if the game is more 'skilled'(otherwise I use some random heroes I'm simply bored of these basic games nowadays). With Far Seer you can creep at the beginning very fast without needing to sacrifice grunts. Later when you have Far Seer and Tauren Chieftain you use Chain Lightning and Shockwave at the same time dealing potential damage. Pretty good 2v2 and 3v3 tactic.

I don't like to use Blademaster and Demon Hunter because they're boring, most used and imbalanced.

 

[Wazzz]

Mmm, yes I must commend the Far Seer for its abilities. It's actually surprisingly good with the Feral Spirit ability to get some early summons to tank damage (in similar fashion to the Human Archmage), Chain Lightning is always welcome for some additional damage and Far Sight is brilliant for scouting without sacrificing anything AND, if my memory serves, it can also detect invisible units.

I've never seen it used in a professional game /yet/, but you do raise some very valid points there. Tauren Chieftain... I think Endurance Aura is a welcome addition to any army, I just think the main issue I have with that hero is it has such low Intelligence making it crucial to save mana for what you deem to be the most opportune times. I'm a bit iffy on it, but it does have two passives (one of them being Reincarnation, which is fairly nice, but an Ultimate) to make up for it, so there's that, and the AoE Stun is always nice, but I think Shockwave is the best place to invest your mana.

 

[GhostThruster]

fine, since you clearly dont understand how ur your points are so retarded and can be applied to anything in a similar manner, ill go the old fashion way and prove you wrong point by point. you can tl;dr the paragraphs by looking at the bold words.

potm - starfall and trueshot are good in team games, but neither have a strong enough impact in 1v1s. the potm also has no good way of surviving or disarming enemy heroes. the demon hunter has good armor + HP, and all his abilities basically negate any unit's impact. even the keeper of the grove has entangle, which could stop a blademaster or dh dead in their tracks. with the potm, you need melee units to tank for her (making trueshot redundant) or she will get surrounded and murdered with no form of self defense. searing arrows is redundant or outclassed, by heroes with true nuke abilities (eg. lich, warden) or high dps without the cost of mana anyways (eg. the blademaster, demon hunter). sentry is a useful ability, but there are other effective ways of detection without wasting resources for the permanent purchase of the potm. eg. dust of appearance, reveals from goblin labs. scouting for tech in wc3 is important, but not nearly as important as in sc2. and once you've seen the enemy hero, you could already assume the player is going for one of two or three builds, making the scout somewhat redundant. in short, potm is a good choice in team games, trueshot aura and starfall work really well in mass. however, searing arrows is useless, whilst scout is useful but only to a small extent. would never choose this hero over dh or warden in a 1v1.

alchemist - this is what i mean by your points; they are just sweet-talk and i could sugar coat a unit like a wisp in the same manner that you sugar-coated the alchemist. if used right, ANY hero is powerful. that is an incredibly obvious and stupid statement, plus i like how you ignore basically all the faults of the heroes listed (which btw outweigh their 1 or 2 benefits). however, you asked to get told, so heres to you getting told; healing spray is weak because it can be cancelled, it is not instant therefore moving units can miss being healed, and most importantly it can heal enemies, therefore is ineffective in the heat of battle. holy light is better in effect, versatility, amount healed, and mana cost. it is better in every way except it being area of effect. acid bomb's armor reduction is decent, its damage is awful, no need to elaborate on that i hope. BUT the ability's potential usage amount is crap, it costs 75 mana and has a 12 second cooldown. even faerie fire is more effective than this ability. the aoe is only 200; you'll hit like 4 units with that on average. chemical rage is bad; why must i pay 25 mana to get some actual decent dps and move speed when other heroes have awesome defensive powers like divine shield or can get away without even using abilities (most agi heroes). transmute might have been effective if it wasnt an ultimate ability, but seeing as it is, killing one unit late game, especially for 150 mana, well again the ability is worthless, since you can get better heroes with better dps that kills units instantly without as much mana cost + they are aoe and more accessible, like a level 3 frost nova, storm bolts, shadow strike, mana burn (not that much dps, but awesome effectiveness). lets not forget the composition of a hero is important. this hero.... just what the fuck, none of his abilities compliment each other, and each ability, in their respective field of effect, are useless (healing/weaken/dps/focus).

pit lord is a masskiller, but wc3 is NOT a mass units game. the max effect of rain of fire is dealing mediocre damage to half a dozen units, but it can also be cancelled. blizzard and flame strike, along with shockwave are much better abilities. howl of terror is a good ability, but doesnt fit alongside his other abilities. imagine if howl of terror reduced armour instead. couple that with rain of fire or cleaving attack, mass rape. cleaving attack is a clone of pulverise (aoe damage isn't even that useful in wc3, sc2 may be a different story), except even a tauren has better dps than a pit lord lol. doom is effective, but why would you invest on a hero for only its ultimate? heroes are strongest in early game, but lose significance late game. pit lord has crap dps for a hero that supposedly kills in masses. doom is its crutch, but i doubt you could reach level 6 with this horrid hero; its likely to get stunned and surrounded before you can finish saying 'mannaroth'.

you make it sound as if 'stun + damage' is awe-inspiring. newsflash, there are so many abilities with higher dps or better disabling than impale. even still, impale is somewhat effective for surrounds, but you're better off using death knight's unholy aura, which is much more versatile and better at getting those surrounds. again, its spawn ability pales in comparison to any other heroes. the undead are good enough at swarming without the clutter of this useless hero anyhow, so this ability is redundant. we have rods of necromancy and ghouls/fiends (plus skeletons are way more versatile than carrion beetles, since there are two, and there is no limit). spiked carapace... i just lol. when was the last time dealing 10 damage to melee attackers a super effective thing to have? divine shield surpasses this, evasion surpasses this, windwalk, immolation, fan of knives, thunder clap, war stomp...they all surpass this. locust's damage is poor, and healing rate is poor. the hero is a slow vulnerable turd anyways so you could just move away from it. and like i stated, its armor is crap. this just shows how much expertise you really have. the crypt lord is slow, weak, and has abilities with limited effectiveness. you want to stun or slow the enemy, plus deal damage? go lich. you want surrounds and support go dk? you want a worthwhile ultimate? go any hero but this guy.

kotg's only decent ability is entangle roots. summon treants requires nearby trees, and the treants are really weak. thorns aura is meh, i kinda explained it with the spiked carapace ability already. like wazzz said, tranquility is a clutch which any decent player should never have to fall on. you dont pick a hero for a semi-decent ulti. regarding your expert reasoning, a combo of a mediocre ability with large, easily targetable, scarce, slow, and expensive tier 2 units that require fully upgraded tier 3 expensive armor, is not justification for the hero being good. the kotg has crap abilities, save entangle. easy to kill, and its summon ability cant even produce reliable tanks coz they go down so fast, and they require you to be near trees to cast.

there, every fucking point well explained. call me a troll again and ill have to assume youre the fucking troll who cant raise a half-decent point in an argument if it depended on your life. if you respond more rubbish and sugar coating, whilst ignoring any points ive raised and also ignoring the faults of the heroes whilst blatantly highlighting the tiniest benefits, i will just ask you to go f*** yourself. (also please dont suddenly pull out that 'calm down bro, ur such an angry troll' card, you brought this on yourself for patronising and belittling me)

@aero and wazzz: far seer is 2nd best starter for orc. many pros start with farseer, often with faster tech builds since the wolves can compensate for a delayed barracks. far seer also hard counters mass casters for humans (which hard counter a lone blademaster, slow just destroys the purpose of his existence).

tauren chieftain's endurance plus war stomp makes it an awesome surrounder. stun + quickly get in position. shockwave is a decent damage spell, not as a good as chain lightning imo.

 

[Wazzz]

I haven't seen Far Seer used by pros /yet/, but I can imagine it being very useful and remember my friend telling me about how he'd use it back when warcraft 3 was more popular on ladder. It's definitely one of the more under-rated heroes in competitive play judging from what I've seen.

 

[Super Pingwin]

so much hatred in this thread

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Actually I do use sometimes PoTm in 1v1 battles against elf. Just spam mass hunters, harras and rush with protectors before the opponent gets tier 2 units. Works pretty well and nowadays people have forgotten this tacticwhich means it works better(surprise strategy).

 

[Xonok]

Semi-trollish-stuff
/Valid points
Now, to the original topic. The reason Keeper of the Grove is one of the least useful heroes is because Tranquility is its only really good ability. Entangling Roots is also fantastic, but that's about it. Now, one might say 'but you admit Tranquility is fantastic', and that is correct, yes indeed I do. It heals all friendly units in a massive area and has a really short cooldown coupled with a low mana cost for an Ultimate abliity.

But that's just it. It's an Ultimate ability. You are relying on this hero getting to level 6 just to be viable, up until then, you are going to alternate between Entangling Roots and filler. It's not completely useless, granted, but it is overshadowed by the multitudes of other Hero options you can get from the Altar of Elders or the Tavern.

Priestess of the Moon is also one of the less useful heroes. Searing Arrows adds nice damage at the cost of mana every time you attack, making it difficult to use Starfall (another Ultimate abliity, I might add, which is overshadowed by anything that stuns it during channeling) without sacrificing a crucial part of the PotM's power. Trueshot Aura is the only really viable thing, although I do like Scout and it is handy for early detection. The pros, however, prefer Dust of Appearance and/or Faerie Fire.

Goblin Alchemist is one of those incredibly situational heroes. It has the health of a tank, but its lack of agility gives it such a low armor rating that, iirc, it actually takes extra damage from attacks at level 1. That is not really good. Simple way to avoid it being used effectively against you is to spread your units out and keep its mana low as it has no active passive abilities. Transmute is good, but again requires level 6. Isn't really good for an ultimate ability unless your opponent has one Frost Wyrm and decided 'Frost Wyrms aren't really working for me', so there's that. I would like to use him just because of how under-utilized he is, though.

Pit Lord. Doom is a nice (Ultimate) abliity, as it kills an enemy unit AND gives you a Doom Guard for a short while. But I would rather have the Dreadlord's Inferno for a couple of reasons. First of all would be that the Infernal creates an impact when it is summoned, stunning units as it appears. That is nice. Secondly, it is immune to magic, or at least it used to be, now I think it just has Resistant Skin which I think the Doom Guard has now, so they're kind of on par with each other a little more. Anyway, people generally don't use either of the heroes who have access to these abilities and honestly, I think you spend too much time thinking about the Ultimate abilities rather than thinking about what you will do in the event you cannot achieve level 6 on any of your heroes.

Crypt Lord's summons... I don't really like them personally. I like his Impale ability in the right situations, as stunning everything down a line is really nice. It's generally not used, but I think it's one of the better heroes in the list, personally. Its passive gives it extra armor and deals damage back like its own personal Thorns Aura. Except Thorns Aura wasn't enough to redeem the Keeper of the Grove.



On a side note, in professional level play, Night Elf players generally use the Demon Hunter, Warden, Naga Sea Witch, Beast Master or the Pandaren Brewmaster. Undead players generally use Death Knight, Lich and Dark Ranger. By which I mean the one match I saw where they didn't go that combination, they had a Naga Sea Witch for some strange reason. All the Human heroes have their use and Human players generally don't use the Tavern (not always, but generally).

Orc players generally don't use Far Seers or Tauren Chieftains, although I believe they are more likely to use the Tauren Chieftain. So I would put the Far Seer as /one/ of the most useless heroes in the game, but as we all know, 'if you use it right then it is good'. What a horrible reason for something not being classed as the 'worst' out of a group of things.

Now, as you may have noticed, this post was really long and my fingers are bleeding. Any opinions/argument against what I have stated are welcome, just don't use the 'you're just a troll' as an 'insta-win' command. We know that means you can't come up with a reasonable argument to back up your points. You're not fooling anybody.

/more semi-trollish stuff
fine, since you clearly dont understand how ur your points are so retarded and can be applied to anything in a similar manner, ill go the old fashion way and prove you wrong point by point. you can tl;dr the paragraphs by looking at the bold words.
/Valid and explained points
potm - starfall and trueshot are good in team games, but neither have a strong enough impact in 1v1s. the potm also has no good way of surviving or disarming enemy heroes. the demon hunter has good armor + HP, and all his abilities basically negate any unit's impact. even the keeper of the grove has entangle, which could stop a blademaster or dh dead in their tracks. with the potm, you need melee units to tank for her (making trueshot redundant) or she will get surrounded and murdered with no form of self defense. searing arrows is redundant or outclassed, by heroes with true nuke abilities (eg. lich, warden) or high dps without the cost of mana anyways (eg. the blademaster, demon hunter). sentry is a useful ability, but there are other effective ways of detection without wasting resources for the permanent purchase of the potm. eg. dust of appearance, reveals from goblin labs. scouting for tech in wc3 is important, but not nearly as important as in sc2. and once you've seen the enemy hero, you could already assume the player is going for one of two or three builds, making the scout somewhat redundant. in short, potm is a good choice in team games, trueshot aura and starfall work really well in mass. however, searing arrows is useless, whilst scout is useful but only to a small extent. would never choose this hero over dh or warden in a 1v1.

alchemist - this is what i mean by your points; they are just sweet-talk and i could sugar coat a unit like a wisp in the same manner that you sugar-coated the alchemist. if used right, ANY hero is powerful. that is an incredibly obvious and stupid statement, plus i like how you ignore basically all the faults of the heroes listed (which btw outweigh their 1 or 2 benefits). however, you asked to get told, so heres to you getting told; healing spray is weak because it can be cancelled, it is not instant therefore moving units can miss being healed, and most importantly it can heal enemies, therefore is ineffective in the heat of battle. holy light is better in effect, versatility, amount healed, and mana cost. it is better in every way except it being area of effect. acid bomb's armor reduction is decent, its damage is awful, no need to elaborate on that i hope. BUT the ability's potential usage amount is crap, it costs 75 mana and has a 12 second cooldown. even faerie fire is more effective than this ability. the aoe is only 200; you'll hit like 4 units with that on average. chemical rage is bad; why must i pay 25 mana to get some actual decent dps and move speed when other heroes have awesome defensive powers like divine shield or can get away without even using abilities (most agi heroes). transmute might have been effective if it wasnt an ultimate ability, but seeing as it is, killing one unit late game, especially for 150 mana, well again the ability is worthless, since you can get better heroes with better dps that kills units instantly without as much mana cost + they are aoe and more accessible, like a level 3 frost nova, storm bolts, shadow strike, mana burn (not that much dps, but awesome effectiveness). lets not forget the composition of a hero is important. this hero.... just what the fuck, none of his abilities compliment each other, and each ability, in their respective field of effect, are useless (healing/weaken/dps/focus).

pit lord is a masskiller, but wc3 is NOT a mass units game. the max effect of rain of fire is dealing mediocre damage to half a dozen units, but it can also be cancelled. blizzard and flame strike, along with shockwave are much better abilities. howl of terror is a good ability, but doesnt fit alongside his other abilities. imagine if howl of terror reduced armour instead. couple that with rain of fire or cleaving attack, mass rape. cleaving attack is a clone of pulverise (aoe damage isn't even that useful in wc3, sc2 may be a different story), except even a tauren has better dps than a pit lord lol. doom is effective, but why would you invest on a hero for only its ultimate? heroes are strongest in early game, but lose significance late game. pit lord has crap dps for a hero that supposedly kills in masses. doom is its crutch, but i doubt you could reach level 6 with this horrid hero; its likely to get stunned and surrounded before you can finish saying 'mannaroth'.

you make it sound as if 'stun + damage' is awe-inspiring. newsflash, there are so many abilities with higher dps or better disabling than impale. even still, impale is somewhat effective for surrounds, but you're better off using death knight's unholy aura, which is much more versatile and better at getting those surrounds. again, its spawn ability pales in comparison to any other heroes. the undead are good enough at swarming without the clutter of this useless hero anyhow, so this ability is redundant. we have rods of necromancy and ghouls/fiends (plus skeletons are way more versatile than carrion beetles, since there are two, and there is no limit). spiked carapace... i just lol. when was the last time dealing 10 damage to melee attackers a super effective thing to have? divine shield surpasses this, evasion surpasses this, windwalk, immolation, fan of knives, thunder clap, war stomp...they all surpass this. locust's damage is poor, and healing rate is poor. the hero is a slow vulnerable turd anyways so you could just move away from it. and like i stated, its armor is crap. this just shows how much expertise you really have. the crypt lord is slow, weak, and has abilities with limited effectiveness. you want to stun or slow the enemy, plus deal damage? go lich. you want surrounds and support go dk? you want a worthwhile ultimate? go any hero but this guy.

kotg's only decent ability is entangle roots. summon treants requires nearby trees, and the treants are really weak. thorns aura is meh, i kinda explained it with the spiked carapace ability already. like wazzz said, tranquility is a clutch which any decent player should never have to fall on. you dont pick a hero for a semi-decent ulti. regarding your expert reasoning, a combo of a mediocre ability with large, easily targetable, scarce, slow, and expensive tier 2 units that require fully upgraded tier 3 expensive armor, is not justification for the hero being good. the kotg has crap abilities, save entangle. easy to kill, and its summon ability cant even produce reliable tanks coz they go down so fast, and they require you to be near trees to cast.

there, every fucking point well explained. call me a troll again and ill have to assume youre the fucking troll who cant raise a half-decent point in an argument if it depended on your life. if you respond more rubbish and sugar coating, whilst ignoring any points ive raised and also ignoring the faults of the heroes whilst blatantly highlighting the tiniest benefits, i will just ask you to go f*** yourself. (also please dont suddenly pull out that 'calm down bro, ur such an angry troll' card, you brought this on yourself for patronising and belittling me)

@aero and wazzz: far seer is 2nd best starter for orc. many pros start with farseer, often with faster tech builds since the wolves can compensate for a delayed barracks. far seer also hard counters mass casters for humans (which hard counter a lone blademaster, slow just destroys the purpose of his existence).

tauren chieftain's endurance plus war stomp makes it an awesome surrounder. stun + quickly get in position. shockwave is a decent damage spell, not as a good as chain lightning imo.

The second post wasn't needed anymore, but it was useful.
Now that you brought your points out I have to agree with them. I just have a dislike for trolls and I must admit that at first that's what we both did.

Anyways:

Keeper - I still like the thorns aura, although I admit that passive abilities are not as effective as active. So basically, the problem with keeper is the lack of proper active abilities. It can be used, but only as support. //Lack of actives

Priestess - I've also experienced the fact that searing arrows drains mana quite fast. I could think of moon wells as a cure for that, but I admit it's naive to hope that. A blood mage would help greatly, but then again, a blood mage is always useful. //Lack of mana

Alchemist - Okay, now I get it. Basically what's missing is the synergy. It could be a nice hero, but it simply isn't. //Too much micro and no real synergy

Pit Lord - Here I can't agree. Firstly, infernal doesn't necessarily kill a unit as it appears, while doom guard does. Also, the doom guard is even better at crowd control, as it has war stomp and cripple. Basically it seems to me that infernal is tankier and has better AoE damage, while doom guard is better at harassing single enemy units(heroes) or perhaps buildings, but I admit I haven't really used rain of fire. //Would be a good hero, if synergy was better

Crypt Lord - I agree that the summons are not useful. They could be good, but they just aren't.
The thorns side of him hasn't really been useful to me either, as it takes an extreme situation to use it properly. //Minions that aren't useful and thorns that can't be used without a special situation.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

It should be clear that Infernal is way better than Doom Lord when it comes to 'tanking'. I mean, Infernal has spell immunity. Wutafukkaa!?

 

[Xonok]

It should be clear that Infernal is way better than Doom Lord when it comes to 'tanking'. I mean, Infernal has spell immunity. Wutafukkaa!?

Re-read please. That's what was said.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

My bad.

 

[GreeN!X]

Whoa, Huge walls of texts this thread has...

Not gonna read em...

===================================

Well, warcraft is a pretty well balanced game.. there are heroes who can deal high damage in a short amount of time but will also damage allies.. heroes with single target and support spells.. So there's no weak / worst heroes.. it mainly depends on the strategy and how player does his game.. Like me, I am an aggressive type of player so I usually use high damage heroes with units with huge hitpoints..

 

[Xonok]

Whoa, Huge walls of texts this thread has...

Not gonna read em...

===================================

Well, warcraft is a pretty well balanced game.. there are heroes who can deal high damage in a short amount of time but will also damage allies.. heroes with single target and support spells.. So there's no weak / worst heroes.. it mainly depends on the strategy and how player does his game.. Like me, I am an aggressive type of player so I usually use high damage heroes with units with huge hitpoints..

Basically it seems that the walls of text point toward a conclusion - Heroes are all balanced, but some are not really useful, because their abilities are too passive/covered by something else/too situational/not synergizing with stats or other abilities

Also, most pros tend to be aggressive players, because that's how warcraft was made. That's why we don't have proper walls. Which again means that many passive abilities are not as useful as they should be.

 

[GreeN!X]

Yeah, some abilities doesn't just give enough bonuses or whatever to support that kind of gameplay.. some abilities needs time so that the player can feel their effect or sometimes they aren't felt at all.. and as you said,

too passive/covered by something else/too situational/not synergizing with stats or other abilities

 

[Aeroblyctos]

We're finally having good discussion here, just keep the comments coming.

What does people think about Dreadlord?

 

[Xonok]

We're finally having good discussion here, just keep the comments coming.

What does people think about Dreadlord?

I'd say that it's quite a nice hero. Especially because of sleep. I remember how dreadlords used it to surround me in Footman Wars. I assume this tactic also works in classic.

 

[Wazzz]

/more trollish stuff

Anyways:

Keeper - I still like the thorns aura, although I admit that passive abilities are not as effective as active. So basically, the problem with keeper is the lack of proper active abilities. It can be used, but only as support. //Lack of actives

Priestess - I've also experienced the fact that searing arrows drains mana quite fast. I could think of moon wells as a cure for that, but I admit it's naive to hope that. A blood mage would help greatly, but then again, a blood mage is always useful. //Lack of mana

Alchemist - Okay, now I get it. Basically what's missing is the synergy. It could be a nice hero, but it simply isn't. //Too much micro and no real synergy

Pit Lord - Here I can't agree. Firstly, infernal doesn't necessarily kill a unit as it appears, while doom guard does. Also, the doom guard is even better at crowd control, as it has war stomp and cripple. Basically it seems to me that infernal is tankier and has better AoE damage, while doom guard is better at harassing single enemy units(heroes) or perhaps buildings, but I admit I haven't really used rain of fire. //Would be a good hero, if synergy was better

Crypt Lord - I agree that the summons are not useful. They could be good, but they just aren't.
The thorns side of him hasn't really been useful to me either, as it takes an extreme situation to use it properly. //Minions that aren't useful and thorns that can't be used without a special situation.

A somewhat oversimplified version of everything we previously stated, but why read the novel when you can read the synopsis, I suppose.

Dreadlord is generally under-utilized because the Death Knight overshadows it as a Strength hero.

I don't think Footman Wars is a good way to judge heroes in the melee game personally, but to each his own. But I can probably assure you that spamming Footmen is not a viable strategy in the melee meta-game.

@juno: I'm not entirely sure of many high dps heroes in the warcraft meta-game that accidentally kill your whole army, but if you could enlighten me as to which heroes you are referring to (I assume the heroes in Footmen Wars), I would appreciate that very much.

Re-read please. That's what was said.

You say this after restating things that have been previously stated?

As for the Infernal VS Doom Guard, Infernal is superior because while it doesn't instantly kill a unit as it appears, the Infernal will stun enemies in an AoE as it appears, which is essentially the same thing, except you have more opportunity to kill more than just one unit, maybe even landing a critical blow on an enemy hero.

Problem with Dreadlord's Sleep, too, is that you can wake up your own units by attacking them once. It's basically like an inferior Storm Bolt.

 

[Kala]

We're finally having good discussion here, just keep the comments coming.

What does people think about Dreadlord?

Dreadlord is useful against noobies. For example: you catch a player's army off-guard. You sleep the hero with teleport scroll, and kill the whole army cause he has no way out. Of course good players easily counter this by attacking the sleeping unit and waking it up.

Carrior Swarm is pretty weak compared to other wave spells, like Breath of Fire and Shockwave, since it only damages organic ground units.

I don't really know what to think about Vampiric Aura. It's like anti-Thorns Aura, only a bit stronger. So not really useful outside big fights (4v4)

If Dreadlord reaches lvl 6, he gets one of the best ultimates in the game. Just land the Inferno on top of the enemy casters and other weak units, and it will crush them all within seconds. Of course its almost impossible to reach lvl 6 in an average game, so you better choose Death Knight or Lich instead.



Who called Pit Lord bad? The Cleave is pretty useless, but the other spells are awesome. Howl of Terror has 30% damage reduction at lvl 1. It's really game breaking imo. Rain of Fire forces enemy to micro their units out of there, losing even more damage. And considering Pit Lord's high HP, he can tank tons of damage when combined with his spells.

 

[Wazzz]

Rain Of Fire is essentially a weaker version of Blizzard, and the Pit Lord doesn't have the same mana pool as the Archmage

Howl Of Terror is probably the only redeemable feature of the Pit Lord's abilities, and while 30% damage reduction at level 1 is pretty decent, it's only temporary and relies on the Pit Lord having mana.

I would say that fighting against a Mana Burn Demon Hunter would cripple this hero, but honestly, what hero doesn't it cripple if the Demon Hunter is played correctly?

I think most of us are saying that while the Pit Lord has its good points, it's just not as viable as some of the other options for heroes we have going around. As the Pit Lord counts as Undead, you'd be most likely to us it as the Undead, but the tri-hero combination of Death Knight, Lich and Dark Ranger is just too powerful for most players to consider the Pit Lord, Dreadlord or the Crypt Lord. There is no place for Lords as the Undead.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Undead isn't a 'lord' race. :[

 

[May90]

NE: Priestess of the Moon is just terrible if you don't blindly go mass tier 1, which is easily countered if your opponent knows how to scout and sees your Priestess.
UD: Dreadlord. This buddy is terrible. Ultimate simply sucks, sleep is useless unless you play against a total newbie, and vampiric aura is usefull only for abominations.
HU: All heroes are pretty good, I think.
ORC: That healer hero, I don't even remember his name. He is pretty good as a 3rd hero, but otherwise - totally useless.
Neutral: Alchemist - no comment. Dark Ranger is good if you are really pro, but otherwise she is a waste.

 

[Wazzz]

The Orc Shadow Hunter (that healer hero) is used primarily as a second hero, maybe even as a first hero. It is used as often as Blademaster is used as the first hero, which is almost always in pro level games. Healing Wave and Hex are two very useful spells, although Hex (like pretty much all spells) lasts a shorter time on heroes, it is still able to make a difference against enemy heroes.

Dark Ranger's Silence is fantastic, but I that if you don't know what you're doing with her, you won't maximize her potential. Even so, though, it's not too hard to right-click Black Arrows if you aren't the best of players, but to use that ability to the fullest of its potential would be difficult. Still, I'd rather have the Dark Ranger as a noobie than the Tinker

Tinker is used in pro level play, but it is difficult to use at low levels of play. Cluster Rockets is about the most useful ability you'll have if you don't know how to use Pocket Factory. If you do know how to use Pocket Factory to the fullest of its potential, however, then that will quickly become your most useful ability :3

As for Priestess of the Moon strats, I believe you can make it work with Dryads, Huntresses, Archers, Glaive Throwers, Druids of the Talon, Hippogryph Riders (lol), Chimeras and Faerie Dragons. But the main unit would be the Dryad. I've gone Huntress + Dryad in the melee game, and it worked effectively - using the Warden. So even in these useful scenarios where Trueshot Aura could come in handy, I'd rather have a hero killer like the Warden teleporting around and firing off Shadow Strikes

 

[May90]

Well, I was not a brilliant WC3 player, that's for sure. So my opinion is based on games with average players and I may be mistaken. ;-)

In all games I played, Shadow Hunter usually was long dead before he even got a chance to heal anyone - his health is too low and he is too fast to die to ranged units. As for Hex, this is pretty valuable ability, but it's much better just to get a stronger hero like Blademaster or Tauren.

I've heard that Dark Ranger is extremely good with right tactics, and in WC3 campaign missions with Sylvanas let us explore her full potential, but you probably should be REALLY good to use her well in melee.

I have used Tinker only once and totally failed that game, so don't have much to say here.

Night Elves are probably the hardest race to play for non-pros as most of their units rely on magic or DPS, but have very low HP. Priestess of the Moon is no different, but with her on your side you typically just don't have any units to tank damage at all, and you must have a perfect micro to keep up battles well. So I usually picked Demon Hunter on small maps or Keeper of the Grove / Warden on large ones and tried to get Druids of Claw ASAP. I do realize though that I played NE wrong...

 

[Aeroblyctos]

UD: Dreadlord. This buddy is terrible. Ultimate simply sucks, sleep is useless unless you play against a total newbie, and vampiric aura is usefull only for abominations.

Carrion Swarm is pretty weak. I've never understand why Blizzard even created this ability. They've changed it so many times and still it is pretty useless.
Sleep is good at the beginning to surround and later to harras opponent's heroes.
Vampiric Aura is especially good with melee units for example Ghouls. Compared to Unholy Aura this aura isn't that useful.

ORC: That healer hero, I don't even remember his name. He is pretty good as a 3rd hero, but otherwise - totally useless.

Excellent hero as a second or third hero. Hex is a good way to kill units and heroes and Heal is average healing method in battles. Ward is good in early situations but I do not recommended in solo matches. Good in team games when you for example have 3 or 4 Shadow Hunters at the beginning of game. Simply go to an enemy base and start to spam wards. With this tactic I earned rank 1 at 4v4(but I've also earned that rank with other not so lame tactics).

Well, I was not a brilliant WC3 player, that's for sure. So my opinion is based on games with average players and I may be mistaken. ;-)

If you were average player you wouldn't say Shadow Hunter is useless hero which means you're not even an average player. :[

 

[Wazzz]

Shadow Hunter is used as a secondary hero choice and has briliant support moves. Aeroblyctos covered this aptly.

When you say Vampiric Aura is especially god with melee units, I assume you mean Vampiric Aura is /only/ good with melee units?
And yeah, Unholy Aura really overshadows it.
Sleep is only really good for targeting a single unit or hero that is far away from any other friendly units.

Undead generally open with Death Knight, they can open with the Lich if they are going for a Tower Rush.

Orc generally open with Blademaster, although some players prefer the Far Seer as an opener.

Humans generally open with the Archmage, sometimes Paladin against Undead.

Night Elves generally open with Demon Hunter or Warden.

Any openers outside of these are probably considered unconventional, but that doesn't mean it can't work. Opening with the Paladin is already unconventional enough as it is, even against Undead, and I think a Far Seer opening is considered unconventional as well, as the meta-game generally loves Blademasters.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

When you say Vampiric Aura is especially god with melee units, I assume you mean Vampiric Aura is /only/ good with melee units?

Ya, ya, ya.

With elf you've more freedom; for example I often use Panda against undead as a first and only hero. Tinker and Beastmaster aren't bad either for elf but I think these heroes can't do it solo as strongly as Panda.

 

[Wazzz]

Oh yeah definitely, Beastmaster is a good opener for the Night Elves, I think Pandaren Brewmaster is used as a second hero a lot but I know it can be a very viable opener as well

Forgot how much freedom Night Elves had for a second there