What category do you prefer in Spell Section?

[Flux]

By looking at the Spell Section's most downloaded spells this month, it appears that GUI spells get most of the download. Sure the spell itself determines the download but I think some people prefer a certain category (mainly GUI).

Vote what category do you prefer in the Spell Section so we can see what people likes the most in the Spell Section. If you're up it, share your opinion why do you think people prefer that category.

 

[edo494]

GUI is very easy to get working on a map.
Spells usually dont need configuration other than like damage, but no need to call Jass or vJass from them, so even easier for users to use them.

We have Jass Section for vJass after all, but that seems, despite not being mentioned in rules for that section(afaik), mainly for systems.

vJass has highest requirements, but most features. But some people wont use vJass resource because they are scared of vJass or some shit, despite oftentimes it being as easy to use as GUI spell. The only problem could be normal editor, so no JassHelper ingerated, but cmon, its not 2k3, its 2k15, everyone should be using JNGP now

 

[Ardenian]

GUI is very easy to get working on a map.
Spells usually dont need configuration other than like damage, but no need to call Jass or vJass from them, so even easier for users to use them.

^This

I prefer GUI. There is 'hardly' something you need to learn and it is easy to use.

 

[Xonok]

There's also the thing that people capable and willing to implement vJASS are also the ones capable of making most of their systems themselves(except core stuff like unit indexing, maybe).

 

[Flux]

^This

I prefer GUI. There is 'hardly' something you need to learn and it is easy to use.

But what about efficiency? GUI tends to be slower because of BJs (not Blow Jass nor Blizzard Job).

 

[Ardenian]

But what about efficiency? GUI tends to be slower because of BJs (not Blow Jass nor Blizzard Job).

I don't care about efficiency to be honest if I am able to understand what I am doing.

If I understand Jass, I will immediately change to it, as it is more efficient.
But simple, I don't understand Jass and I don't know an efficient way to learn it. Therefore I prefer GUI as I know what I am doing.

Just an example: I would like to use the DDS of Doomlord, but as I have no clue how to do so and Jass is involved ( beside the fact you don't need to know Jass for this particular system) I am discouraged.

Give me a GUI system and I should know what to do. Give me a system with Jass and I am lost.

 

[Flux]

I don't care about efficiency to be honest if I am able to understand what I am doing.

If I understand Jass, I will immediately change to it, as it is more efficient.
But simple, I don't understand Jass and I don't know an efficient way to learn it. Therefore I prefer GUI as I know what I am doing.

Just an example: I would like to use the DDS of Doomlord, but as I have no clue how to do so and Jass is involved ( beside the fact you don't need to know Jass for this particular system) I am discouraged.

Give me a GUI system and I should know what to do. Give me a system with Jass and I am lost.

Fair enough. That settles it, when I will make spells, I'll do it in GUI.

 

[Ardenian]

Fair enough. That settles it, when I will make spells, I'll do it in GUI.

You can also make them in Jass, but add a GUI configuration and a detailed explanation, please, that's fine too, IMO.

 

[Kazeon]

GUI is very easy to get working on a map.

So either jass. I would say Jass is the best option here. It doesn't require JNGP to go; not less efficient than vJass; and you can have GUI configuration as well. Not sure tho, why I feel people aren't convinced to use Jass resources. What they need to do is just cnp the trigger and configure the spell. Nothing is harder than GUI.

 

[Wasabee]

So either jass. I would say Jass is the best option here. It doesn't require JNGP to go; not less efficient than vJass; and you can have GUI configuration as well. Not sure tho, why I feel people aren't convinced to use Jass resources. What they need to do is just cnp the trigger and configure the spell. Nothing is harder than GUI.

Some people don't have basic knowledge about Jass or vJass.
Some people might be afraid they might mess with their map if they try to configure the Jass part.

 

[edo494]

cant mess any more than with GUI spells tho

 

[Wasabee]

cant mess any more than with GUI spells tho

What do you mean?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

There's also the thing that people capable and willing to implement vJASS are also the ones capable of making most of their systems themselves(except core stuff like unit indexing, maybe).

This is the actual problem.

I coded all my spells manually. Why? Because most spells in the spell section that fit my needs in terms of quality usually have a huge list of dependencies. And I definitely won't import three systems to make a single spell working.

I feel that the vJass spell section would be in a much better shape if spellmakers would just make all the dependencies optional. I'm fine with table. I'm fine with event. But why does everyone feel the need to use a friggin' timer system? I don't want your damn timer systems. If you have to have three different timer systems in your map to make all spells work, what's the point in actually having those timer systems? It's certainly not about efficiency anymore.

Same goes for unit indexers. But those usually use the same syntax, so I can just change the requirement and be done with it.

If I see a spell requiring any library other than table, simerror or a unit indexer, I mostly skip it.

 

[Tank-Commander]

It's rather easy to understand why GUI tends to have the most dls albeit largely based on misconception that GUI is the most user friendly though you could argue it is visually (since mapmakers often do not know anything outside of GUI) and they get scared off by things like JASS/vJASS paritcularly in vanilla editors because of the lack of highlighting and potentially even the font could be considered offputting

This being despite JASS resources often being as easy if not easier to import (if they're designed well) and work in the vanilla editor. by the same token they take up less space (triggers) and don't clutter up the variable editor as much (as a GUI equivelent of the same spell/system) particularly when it comes to things like configuration (if one is to use the constant functions method)

Though that all aside, one can also easily accredit it to the fact that GUI resources heavily outnumber all others (1514 GUI resources to 203 JASS and 499 vJASS as of this post) so it would stand to reason that from sheer volume the majority of downloads would be GUI resources regardless of their respective qualities (I can't imagine many people who go to the spell section to locate resources worry too much about the actual quality of the resource programmatically provided that it works)

Personally I'd generally like to see more of everything, and also more people who're dedicated enough to rectify their resources when they're set to need fix regardless of how minor - I'm consistently baffled by people leaving a "needs fixed" resource and just pumping out more instead of recitfying past mistakes (often repeating them again) regardless of how petty the mistake is. Might be just me though since the needs fix status doesn't appear to particularly impede download count

If you have to have three different timer systems in your map to make all spells work, what's the point in actually having those timer systems? It's certainly not about efficiency anymore.

This is why I never import external systems for my own works and keep everything self contained (keeping in mind most mapmakers again don't care about efficiency if the product works)

 

[Flux]

This is the actual problem.
...
...

I'm okay with Table and TimerUtils but not Unit Indexer.

But yeah, vJass Spell section would be better if the spells doesn't have a long list of required library.

 

[Chaosy]

GUI since you don't need to download 9(do not take the number too seriously) libs to get vjass system working. (Yes I have seen such)

 

[edo494]

yea, that is very big problem with vJass and why some people(including me) try to make their code as independant as possible(I put table everywhere tho), its pain in the ass to get all the systems just for one system(Im looking at you UnitIndexer by Nes).

But GUI can have quite a few dependencies too, usually it doesnt tho

 

[Daffa]

Some GUI spells have dependency (cough, Bribe won the Unit Indexer game for no dependency for an UI cough). But as stated, they're far less in number, the most I have seen was 5 or 6.
Jass also still a good preference for systems (and spells to an extend), some jass ones still GUI friendly (Im looking at KB3D by TDW).

Two common reasons for no vJass story, AFAIR :
1) JNGP Requirement
2) Dependencies

 

[edo494]

if you do not use JNGP in 2015, you are from stone age. GUI oftentimes has even more depedencies(not spells, but systems)(not always, sometimes)

 

[Chaosy]

But GUI can have quite a few dependencies too, usually it doesnt tho

The only ones are indexers and DDS. Not much to do about the DDS part however the unit indexer can be skipped (by using hashtables). Luckily all GUI systems use the same indexer..