Warcraft II: Orc Campaign

[deepstrasz]

If this has the Oil bug(s) like the Human Campaign, then sorry

 

[G3Phoenix]

Bugs/Nitpicks I noticed while Playing the remake of WC 2 in WC 3, by Helldoom
-Orc peons attack sounds like a the Footman/Knight/Grunt rather than the original sound in WC 2
-Some buildings, such as the farms in Mission 3 cannot be destroyed, where as in WC 2 they can
-Attacks by ships follow their target, rather than just hitting where they were fired at like in WC 2. Makes dodging shots from ships impossible like you can do in WC 2, Maybe make ships target like Mortar teams in WC 3
-I noticed in Mission 4 and 5 that I can't upgrade my Axethrowers attack to level two
-In mission 4 I have access to the Blacksmith, where as it is only available from mission 5 and onwards
-Also, you start off with one less troll than you should in Mission 4
-Footmen, peasants, archers all have death sounds from WC3 rather and 2
-No refineries but I did notice I get increased oil production regardless
-Blacksmiths sound is WC 3's, not WC 2
-Catapults sounds are WC 3's, not WC 2. Also they don't explode upon death, but that was unrealistic even in WC 2
-Ship attack sounds are WC 3, not WC 2
-Guard Towers seems to attack a bit too slow, maybe try average attack speed
-Ballistae attacks tracks its target, makes it impossible to dodge, unlike in WC 2
-Can't upgrade Great Hall to Stronghold in mission 5
-I noticed that you can't queue upgrades on the foundry like you can on the blacksmith
-Transports destroyed when close to the shore will be able to unload their units upon death, rather than kill all
-Bloodlust can be cast on the caster, eye of Killrog is too slow ( in my opinion ) and your own units cannot set off runes

I can understand that some of these bugs/nitpicks cannot but fixed/changed since WC 3's engine is more advanced than WC 2's and thus you cannot make a 100% accurate remake of WC 2 in WC 3, but hopefully these help you improve the already great remake.
I haven't finished the campaign yet, just started mission 7, so will update as I find/if I find more bugs

 

[Supernickman 32]

Off the review Episode 4: Warcraft II: Tides of darkness Remake

Read This
For first i wanted to say i not make classically review style if say this basic then that means i just say what i think about maps. Let's begin.


Off the reviews Episode 5: Warcraft II: Tides of darkness Remake
What is Warcraft II: Tides of darkness Remake?
It's are remake of Warcraft II Tides of darkness why i post this under Orc campaign reason i'm too lazy to make two reviews of remake.

For a final.
I could recommend this remake to Warcraft II lovers.


Rate.
_________________________________________________________________
-Gameplay 40/40
-Terrain 10/10
- Enjoyably 20/20
- Total points 70 = 10
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awesome 70/70 = 10
Good ,but could be better 50/70 = 9
Not bad 40.9/70 = 8
Nicely 35/70 = 7
Too hard to you? 28.5/70 = 6
You tried ,but only half 20/70 = 5
Nice ,but with this you never be good mapmaker 15.5 =4
Try harder 10/70 = 3
Thanks seat down two 5/70 = 2
This sucks 0/70 = 1

 

[aChiLLeS]

Hi there, I'm in the middle of playing this campaign and planning to go with the Human version after that. Generally, I think it's really great for WCII fans. A nice flash-back . Maybe a couple of things that will be helpful here:

Bugs
1) The Shipyard building keeps playing the "collapse" sound and animation on random ocassions. No idea why.
2) Can't set rally point of Shipyard to Oil Platform so that tankers start gathering. They just go below it ... sort of.

Suggestions / Queries:
1) Gold in Gold mines - don't you guys have an impression that there is way too little gold? I found it particularly problematic in the final Khaz Modan mission, where you attack the Stromgarde capital.
2) Unit sight range - seems way too small. I know it wasn't the greatest in WCII, but it's quite irritating.

Cheers.

---EDIT---
Actually, I got stuck in Chapter IX 'The Razing of Tyr's Hand' (or so it is called in the original ). I was not able to finish the mission without codes due to insufficient resources. My gold mine only allowed raising a mediocre army as compared to what the opponent has had.

Maybe I got a bit rusty, but I don't think that's the case. As stated above, in most previous chapters I found gold in the mines insufficient as well.

Has anyone else had similar impressions?

 

[Mgeterno11]

Wow, this is an amazing map! It is percefly accurate, and remakes the classic Warcraft II campaign. So, I had a nostaglic feeling, my childhood memories.

I like the stats, the abilities and the descriptions. The sound and music were awesome, it really brought back the old feeling.

However, there some things which I would like to point out:

Ogre, and troll axethrower have the standart Wc3 sound, they should have the old wc2 ord death. Also, the Oil Patches sould have a black color. You can change it in the editor. But this does not matter much, I will check the Orc campaign, too. It was a great experience.

Also, what about making the Human and Orc Dark Portal Campaign, too? Heroes e.g. Dentarg and Turalyon should have hero abilities.

5/5 of course.

 

[HEMA_WARAKY]

where is beyond the portal expansion?

 

[JCarrill0]

where is beyond the portal expansion?

Hasn't been created since this one also isn't finished

 

[HEMA_WARAKY]

Hasn't been created since this one also isn't finished

now i see

 

[JCarrill0]

I'm waiting for it too!

 

[Cherrymage]

Uhh... Death Coil isn't an AoE spell which could hit more than one unit...
In Warcraft II, it's an AoE spell...

Well, if it's engine limitations, then I understand... But then Exorcism works, no? Hmm...

Also, making Death Knight cast Death Coil on Sheep -- 5 HP only -- restores the Death Knight to full health. But on the other hand, when a Death Knight casted Death Coil on an Archer, the health does not go to the Death Knight

 

[Deathknell]

Nice map dude looks like im playing the real warcraft 2

 

[General_Undead]

 

[cleavinghammer]

Got a crash on the final orc level, but I don't know what caused it.

Towers should be able to see over trees.

 

[Roxas13]

On both Orc & Human campaigns, when trying to repair ships I get a "Unable to target Ships" message.

 

[Suedomsael]

On both Orc & Human campaigns, when trying to repair ships I get a "Unable to target Ships" message.

That is because in the original Warcraft 2 gameplay, Ships are NOT repairable.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Victory screen should show an actual orc.
Sawmills sometimes don't give the lumber bonus.
Foundry gives oil bonus.
Zuljin's Berserk should mention how much more damage he takes. Also, he should have more HP.
Enemy heroes apparently revive themselves out of sheer willpower, as I'd killed their townhall before they revived out of nowhere.
Peons should have cooperative building.
Zuljin's Berserk has no sound.
Eye of Kilrogg has a Human death sound.

The beaches on the Stromgarde level have serious pathing problems.
Troll sight upgrade gives them better sight than Zeppelins. Zeppelins and other far-seeing units should have their sight range increased accordingly.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Gul'Dan's Life Drain tooltip says it drains 3 HP at every level.
I think (not sure) the extra lumber only activates after building something else.
Mind controlled units sometimes attack-move to different locations (possibly the former owner telling them where to go).
Peons sometimes get stuck in shoreline buildings after construction.
Tyr's Hand: Why are we still fighting Stromgarde troops when we destroyed them in another level?
Peon's Harvest hotkey is H, same as Hold Position.
On Caer Darrow, built a Shipyard and this weird Night Elf sound keeps looping.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Rangers get armor upgrades.
Cannon towers can't attack buildings except via attack ground.
Heroes can attack debris. Personally I think this is good, it's better than using sappers, reloading if you got the wrong section, using sappers, reloading if you got the wrong section, etc.
A common issue across all maps: the AI sends two or three attack waves then accumulates them all in its base. Also the hero keeps reviving even if you destroyed the main building.

 

[cleavinghammer]

On Stratholme, Lothar was the only unit left standing and started running towards the last blue structure still standing when it was attacked, an oil platform.

Haste shows up as a debuff and shares a hotkey with Hold Position.

Apparently heroes stop reviving if all their buildings are destroyed?

Alleria and Sylvanas use (male) human death sounds.
Quel'thalas' AI seemed to upgrade a lot less than other levels (they never made it to Paladins or Rangers). They also sent a ballista far behind each regular attack wave.

Runes aren't created in a + shape.

Units killed by catapults should leave corpses.

Gul'Dan's Life Drain is pretty underwhelming, maybe give him a Raise Dead spell instead.
Zul'Jin's Berserk says it increases attack speed by 30% at all levels.

Skeleton attack uses the sword sound.

Giant Turtles can be repaired and can attack structures and catapults.

Whirlwind destroys the trees it's cast on and should have Locust since they're uncontrollable. They also seem to do a lot less damage than I remember (ah, the joys of throwing 9-18 whirlwinds at a building and running away).

Foundry can only research one upgrade at a time.

When attacking, AI Ogre-Mages tend to cast Eye of Kilrogg for some reason (was the eye based on a combat summon?). Also they sometimes cast Runes, but against hit-and-run (well, hit-and-hide-in-transport) this results in great hilarity and I highly recommend watching them do so.

Why isn't Gul'dan fighting the demons?

Dragon Roost has the Ogre Mound sound.

Dragons cost 40 wood.

Dalaran has a problem with accumulating attack waves.

Submarines and turtles should not count towards the "destroy all enemies" requirement.

Teron's class is just Lord.

 

[Blazethesage]

Not sure about the rest, but Gul'dan doesn't fight the demons, I imagine, because he didn't in the original Warcraft 2 map. The demons were on his side, and only the cinematic before the level provided any implication that the demons were supposed to kill him canonically. In the level, they were enemies the player had to fight that supported Gul'dan's forces.

 

[cleavinghammer]

^ Really? I recall him starting as under player control just long enough to see him get massacred by the demons, same as Lothar in the last Alliance level.



Several maps have sea cliffs that don't match the terrain behind (usually grassy-edged cliffs that lead to dirt).

The Dalaran level has some forested areas with randomly unbuildable spots once the trees are cleared.

Does Death and Decay still drain the Death Knight's mana? It doesn't seem to (and has laughably reduced AoE).

 

[deepstrasz]

@Blazethesage & @cleavinghammer what mission are you talking about, this one?

Spoiler

 

[cleavinghammer]

Yep.

Huh. Guess I had it confused with Lothar's death.


Maybe have Saurfang and Teron appear in levels before the final one (not necessarily at level 1).

Dragons have 4 armor, Gryphon Riders have 5.

Last level has the accumulating attack waves problem.

Given the frequency of air attacks, another ranged hero would be nice (rather than Saurfang).

 

[Abraham Dipin Jacob]

Hello your Campaign is amazing, I am also in love how you managed to keep damage numbers also. Amazing, it is very refreshing to play this game once gain in WC III. I wanted to ask one thing, what is the Orc Grunt model you are using? I tried in the resources used, but couldn't find any grunt model as shown in your game missions. Thank you so much.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Death and Decay should be reworked so it drains mana, lasts as long as there's mana and has a much larger AoE.

Final level: the last Alliance shipyard kept producing subs despite no longer having oil.

End cutscene:
* Catapults don't seem to fire projectiles.
* King Terenas' line doesn't display.
* The shot of the castle could use more smoke and fire.
* When the orc's victory proclamation plays, human BGM plays in the background.
* The subtitles don't appear in time with the orc speaking.
* The cutscene goes on in silence for a few seconds after the voiceover ends.

Overall, a very good adaptation, although I'd have liked for the voiceovers and other cutscenes to be included.

 

[AbsolutePsycho]

Bug in "Mission 12 - The Tomb of Sargeras":
Runes created by enemy ogres near the tomb (or maybe for the whole map, idk) count as "required to kill" units.
At first I thought the mission end trigger was bugged, but then I noticed that the runes have enemy color on the minimap...
So I suicided some of my army, and the mission was accomplished. Yay.
Maybe the runes should be created for Player(PLAYER_NEUTRAL_AGGRESSIVE) instead?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Runes show up on the minimap?

Speaking of which, AI ogre-mages have a distressing tendency to create runes right where they're standing, removing themselves and the runes very quickly.

 

[AbsolutePsycho]

Runes show up on the minimap?

Sometimes when you see them, yes. Not sure when their visibility is switched, but it's very brief.

 

[Helldoom]

Sometimes when you see them, yes. Not sure when their visibility is switched, but it's very brief.

Yeah the runes will need some work on the AI part that I have to figure out.

 

[LordDxl]

Hello! I've just tried out your mod and it is really cool. I've so far reached mission 5, but have taken a break (I've played Warcraft 2 today too, so it was a little too much Your command, captain and whatnot). It is an amazing achievement, how you've tweaked the engine in such ways (with the oil, the custom factions etc.). I've left this comment to both congratulate you on this awesome mod and to be able to review it for hive. There are a few bugs (which is to be expected with such an overhaul) and also some other mini-issues (for example, your first hero has and extra 'l' in one of his abilities' name), but it's playable and pretty balanced. I'm playing with heroes on so I don't play the same damn game I've played recently, and it works really well (thanks for removing the inventory for heroes, it's one of the things that bug me most about Warcraft 3).

 

[Kristina]

Hello, I would like to translate your campaign into Russian.

 

[anzelayne]

Hello, I loved this campaign incredibly. I had never played Warcraft 2 before but I came here just to explore lore.

But the lore seems non-canon and confusing. I read up that many aspects were retconned later. I'm just wondering would it be possible to make a lore canon version of Warcraft 2 in WarCraft3 with creative filling in by the maker to smooth over the retcons for a person trying this for the Lore?

I'm sorry if this is too much to ask, but I think this will make this great mod much more popular.

 

[deepstrasz]

I'm sorry if this is too much to ask, but I think this will make this great mod much more popular.

I think the idea of such a remake is for Warcraft II fans to enjoy it foremost.

There are other Warcraft II and Orcs & Humans campaigns out here inclined towards what you want.

 

[Suedomsael]

Hello, I loved this campaign incredibly. I had never played Warcraft 2 before but I came here just to explore lore.

But the lore seems non-canon and confusing. I read up that many aspects were retconned later. I'm just wondering would it be possible to make a lore canon version of Warcraft 2 in WarCraft3 with creative filling in by the maker to smooth over the retcons for a person trying this for the Lore?

I'm sorry if this is too much to ask, but I think this will make this great mod much more popular.

Retconning the ORIGINAL Warcraft lore is just damn disrespectful to Warcraft itself and surely ruined the story. This campaign is a remake of the ORIGINAL LORE of the ORIGINAL GAME CAMPAIGNS of Warcraft II that is loved by the TRUE Warcraft FANS, not the WoW fans.
THIS IS the original and THIS IS CANON, not the WoW retcons.

I dont mean to disrespect you but if you prefer shit retcon lore then you might as well go to WoW and its ridiculous lore and dumb plot. If you want a retcon Warcraft 2 story, you can go read the novels written by Rosenberg and Golden. Those novels are under the WoW banner, and it retconned (RUINED) the original Warcraft 2 campaign lore and plot.

 

[Helldoom]

Since many have wanted to check out the campaign in the editor, I finally got around to slightly remake it so it can be opened in a normal World Editor (no NewGen required). I didn't test it thoroughly, but should work normally as well.

Hello, I loved this campaign incredibly. I had never played Warcraft 2 before but I came here just to explore lore.

But the lore seems non-canon and confusing. I read up that many aspects were retconned later. I'm just wondering would it be possible to make a lore canon version of Warcraft 2 in WarCraft3 with creative filling in by the maker to smooth over the retcons for a person trying this for the Lore?

I'm sorry if this is too much to ask, but I think this will make this great mod much more popular.

A retconned campaign could be interesting, however that would require many new maps, units, sounds, models..etc. and really knowing the new lore (until changed ) to be a good remake.

 

[Suedomsael]

A retconned campaign could be interesting, however that would require many new maps, units, sounds, models..etc. and really knowing the new lore (until changed ) to be a good remake.

Please Helldoom, I beg you, no! Just NO!

Retconned campaign is basically an original story RUINED and DUMB DOWN, thats a fact. Thats what WoW majorly did the most (if not all) the major lore storylines of the original Warcraft RTS games. WoW basically ruined Warcraft in so many ways, ESPECIALLY with all the story retcons

YOU are one of the few best map makers here and is the only one who successfully brought the ORIGINAL Warcraft 2 campaigns into an actual custom campaign playable to the bit more modern game engine of WC3... PLEASE, I BEG YOU! DON'T RUIN what you have long created, DON'T RUIN the original Warcraft 2 campaign lore. What you did here is a Warcraft RTS, don't make it as WoWcraft please like what the failure WC3:Reforged did.

 

[deepstrasz]

Please Helldoom, I beg you, no! Just NO!

Eyy man, if that's his wish, it's not your insistence to influence his decision, no matter if you like it or not.

 

[Suedomsael]

Eyy man, if that's his wish, it's not your insistence to influence his decision, no matter if you like it or not.

Oh well, i guess if he does change it no one can stop him. If ever or not, might as well save the WC2 campaigns while it is still as the original, while it is still good.

 

[anzelayne]

Retconning the ORIGINAL Warcraft lore is just damn disrespectful to Warcraft itself and surely ruined the story. This campaign is a remake of the ORIGINAL LORE of the ORIGINAL GAME CAMPAIGNS of Warcraft II that is loved by the TRUE Warcraft FANS, not the WoW fans.
THIS IS the original and THIS IS CANON, not the WoW retcons.

I dont mean to disrespect you but if you prefer shit retcon lore then you might as well go to WoW and its ridiculous lore and dumb plot. If you want a retcon Warcraft 2 story, you can go read the novels written by Rosenberg and Golden. Those novels are under the WoW banner, and it retconned (RUINED) the original Warcraft 2 campaign lore and plot.

That is a pretty dumb thing to say tbh, in my opinion a dumb plotline is one where confusing alternate endings ruin continuity aspects. I have never cared about WoW (never even played the original WoW classic) and my only interest is in the Warcraft 3 characters. In warcraft 2 the story follows 2 alternate endings that doesnt follow through a single storyline from the beginning to the end of WC3.

Also Golden's novels were pretty incredible, Lord of the Clans and Rise of the Horde were some of the best novels I have ever read set on a game universe, it made for an almost literary experience.

 

[anzelayne]

I think the idea of such a remake is for Warcraft II fans to enjoy it foremost.

There are other Warcraft II and Orcs & Humans campaigns out here inclined towards what you want.

Can you link me to those campaigns? I'll be much obliged.

 

[Suedomsael]

That is a pretty dumb thing to say tbh, in my opinion a dumb plotline is one where confusing alternate endings ruin continuity aspects. I have never cared about WoW (never even played the original WoW classic) and my only interest is in the Warcraft 3 characters. In warcraft 2 the story follows 2 alternate endings that doesnt follow through a single storyline from the beginning to the end of WC3.

Also Golden's novels were pretty incredible, Lord of the Clans and Rise of the Horde were some of the best novels I have ever read set on a game universe, it made for an almost literary experience.

That's because both WC1 and 2, are unlike WC3 where the story is told on a sequential series of campaigns. in wc1 and 2, you can play human first then orc later, or vice versa... unlike in wc3 where it is in a sequence.

I DO UNDERSTAND about your point about the confusing endings of 2 different campaigns in wc 1 and 2... considering the ending of orc ending in wc1 is canon, and the human ending for wc2 is the canon one... tho in the wc2:btdp both endings are canon.

but then your point about RETCON story wishing is just absurd, and in fact it will only ruin the story of the original warcraft campaigns. Retcons RUIN the story... it basically destroys the original lore for the sake of just fitting in into nonsense modern stuff just like most major story aspects in WoW.

like it or not, the way Helldoom made the campaigns is the very exact same way the original warcraft 2 campaigns are played. meaning like wc3, they ARE the ORIGINAL AND CANON LORE AS IT IS. Again, i understand your point about the two confusing endings of the campaigns to which one is non-canonical, but then again, RETCON is a different thing.

Retcons means CHANGING THE STORY ITSELF (not just the campaign gameplay), it means RUINING THE ORIGINAL LORE like what WoW majorly did and even what the flop Warcraft 2016 movie did.

One example of the MANY retcons for the Warcraft movie for instance:
Original Lore: Orgrim Doomhammer killed Blackhand
Movie Retcon Lore: Lothar killed Blackhand

 

[SantaBla]

I don't think retconning the story for a new campaign would ruin the original lore. It would be just a different version. If Helldoom were to make a campaign which takes after the updated story of Wc2 based on the novels, I would welcome them happily. People want to act like the story was sacred in the original games. They weren't. Narratives must stop being treated as gospel. This isn't a religion.

Not to mention it's just a fan version, and I would be interested to see one as well.

 

[Suedomsael]

I don't think retconning the story for a new campaign would ruin the original lore. It would be just a different version. If Helldoom were to make a campaign which takes after the updated story of Wc2 based on the novels, I would welcome them happily. People want to act like the story was sacred in the original games. They weren't. Narratives must stop being treated as gospel. This isn't a religion.

Not to mention it's just a fan version, and I would be interested to see one as well.

The novels ARE RETCON. The ORIGINAL WARCRAFT LORE will ALWAYS BE BETTER and SUPERIOR to WoW's retcon lore, and those novels were made for WoW players who know nothing about the TRUE EPIC ORIGINAL STORIES of the Warcrafts, for the sake of just catering to their taste in WoW.

Retcons means CHANGING the original stuff. It literally means RUINING the original stories.
It should NEVER BE the original stuff that should adjust for the new stuff.
This is the #1 reason why majority of people that know and played the original WC1-3, hate WoW... because of the retcons it did, not just to the Warcrafts, but even to its own older WoW stories.

Example of story retcons:
Orig WC1 story: Doomhammer kills Blackhand to become the new warchief.
Retcon WC1 movie story: Lothar kills Blackhand in a lame one-on-one fight.

Orig WC3 story: Illidan DESTROYS the Skull of Guldan upon consuming its energies.
Retcon WoW lore: Illidan didn't destroyed the skull, and is staring at it all day in TBC.

HENCE, changing the original story contexts which is NEVER GOOD

If a new campaign is to be made that is totally different and separate to this one, its totally fine since it wont affect the perfect story remake of the original wc2 campaigns.

 

[anzelayne]

The novels ARE RETCON. The ORIGINAL WARCRAFT LORE will ALWAYS BE BETTER and SUPERIOR to WoW's retcon lore, and those novels were made for WoW players who know nothing about the TRUE EPIC ORIGINAL STORIES of the Warcrafts, for the sake of just catering to their taste in WoW.

Retcons means CHANGING the original stuff. It literally means RUINING the original stories.
It should NEVER BE the original stuff that should adjust for the new stuff.
This is the #1 reason why majority of people that know and played the original WC1-3, hate WoW... because of the retcons it did, not just to the Warcrafts, but even to its own older WoW stories.

Example of story retcons:
Orig WC1 story: Doomhammer kills Blackhand to become the new warchief
Retcon WC1 movie story: Lothar kills Blackhand in a one on one fight
HENCE, changing the original story context which is NEVER GOOD

If a new campaign is to be made that is totally different and separate to this one, its totally fine since it wont affect the perfect story remake of the original wc2 campaigns.

Thats not at all true, the original novels such as Lord of the Clans and early WoW all built up a more fleshed out and believable world. For example, the original WC1 story is so bland as to be non-existent from the world-building perspective. Also the majority of Warcraft fans I know love the early WoW upto WoTLK, especially because of the incredible novels that make the game-world so much more of a literary experience.

Also, Doomhammer killing Blackhand to become the Warchief IS the canon, referenced in most books and graphic novels as well. WC Movie is not canon and does not belong to the same timeline, its some retardation about time travel and other BS introduced after WoD. When they say Original WC lore, in my mind it includes WoW upto WoTLK days including all the great authors and well-built novels till then. Then again, Doomhammer killing Blackhand is itself a Retcon, since original WC1 doesnt even feature Doomhammer.

 

[Suedomsael]

Thats not at all true, the original novels such as Lord of the Clans and early WoW all built up a more fleshed out and believable world. For example, the original WC1 story is so bland as to be non-existent from the world-building perspective. Also the majority of Warcraft fans I know love the early WoW upto WoTLK, especially because of the incredible novels that make the game-world so much more of a literary experience.

Also, Doomhammer killing Blackhand to become the Warchief IS the canon, referenced in most books and graphic novels as well. WC Movie is not canon and does not belong to the same timeline, its some retardation about time travel and other BS introduced after WoD. When they say Original WC lore, in my mind it includes WoW upto WoTLK days including all the great authors and well-built novels till then.

First, Lord of the Clans serve as a replacement to the cancelled Warcraft adventures game, nothing more. It didn't necessarily changed anything out of the original story context

Second, it depends on you on how you take on a story. You can say as game or movie is bland or boring, but then the story itself is as what the author wants to be. Yes WC1 as a gameplay is boring compare to WC2 and 3, but still the story itself being told is as dark and epic unlike of the farcical dumb WoW story.
You don't view it as if you are reflecting yourself to be part of its world and events, you view as a as a story of the author as it is. It is not your story, it is the story of the people who made it.

Funny you mentioned, WoW to WoTLK, when the exp between it which is TBC is probably the worst story made in terms of a WoW lore, not just in terms of retcons, but also its major ridiculous story concepts. Same thing can be said with the major lore of WoW Vanilla itself.

And no, doomhammer killing blackhand is NOT a retcon... it is clearly mentioned in wc2 manual... and that the mission you played killing blackhands troops in wc1 implies it... it added more to it BUT it did not changed anything so its not a retcon

Adding something more is not necessarily a retcon. Retcon means CHANGING...

 

[deepstrasz]

Thats not at all true, the original novels such as Lord of the Clans and early WoW all built up a more fleshed out and believable world.

Games don't have that because they are visual, so logically you don't need more than say maps aside the chapters themselves. The map along with background lore is present in each of the game's manuals.

And no, doomhammer killing blackhand is NOT a retcon... it is clearly mentioned in wc2 manual

He wrote that it is the canon.

 

[Suedomsael]

He wrote that it is the canon.

He wrote in his very last follow up statement... A follow-up last sentence in his post.

 

[deepstrasz]

He wrote in his very last follow up statement... A follow-up last sentence in his post.

You're right.
But he's right too, Orgrim, as Gul'dan were introduced in the Tides of Darkness manual which is pretty much a retcon but one more an addition than actual change.
Basically, the player became Orgrim as they did with the players of StarCraft to StarCraft II, the executor being Artanis which is silly because Artanis was playable back then too and answered to the player executor, lol.

 

[Suedomsael]

You're right.
But he's right too, Orgrim, as Gul'dan were introduced in the Tides of Darkness manual which is pretty much a retcon but one more an addition than actual change.

Which is why I said: Adding Something is not necessarily a retcon. The main meaning of Retcon is to CHANGE the original stuff.
Though there are times that adding something to a past story can also be considered a retcon IF it would GREATLY affect and/or alter the original history lore itself...

But in Orgrim Doomhammer's case... i dont consider it as retcon
His existence in WC2 as being the new warchief that killed and overthrow Blackhand DID NOT changed anything out of the context of WC1 Orc Campaign. His addition as a new major story character for WC2 DID NOT affect nor alter anything, hence it only made it better as a story.

Considering:
PLAYER (Unnamed Orc Commander) of WC1 = Orgrim Doomhammer (WC2 NEW Orc Warchief), DOES NOT change anything at all.

 

[merlin68]

There is a bug on linux when emulating in wine (v5.0 here) where the third mission crashes when exploring the upper part of the map. This is the error:

0009:err:ole:CoCreateInstanceEx apartment not initialised

I was able to stop this error by running winecfg and enabling the option under the Graphics tab of Emulating a Virtual Desktop. I also clicked capture mouse but I don't think that affected it. Great map and exciting to finally play this legendary game!