[Strategy / Risk] War of the Clans

[Heinvers]

Why should there be downloable version yet? It's just a project thread.

I have a playable version, but it's close to beta stage. If you want to test it, i can give you a link

Why not wait until it's fully functional and free of bugs ?

 

[z00rtaz]

Why should there be downloable version yet? It's just a project thread.

I have a playable version, but it's close to beta stage. If you want to test it, i can give you a link

Oh, my bad! Thought the map was for anyone to check out. No thank you, no beta-testing for me. Have enough with testing my own code (which is tedious to say the least).

 

[matt5556]

Please tell me ai.i have found lots of maps like this with ai.please

 

[Argos]

Please tell me ai.i have found lots of maps like this with ai.please

Ai what? Your english is very confusing friend

This map is not singleplayer, this is 8 to 10 players strategy map with unique features.

 

[Argos]

Our project was expanded with new modelers. Welcome z00rtaz and takakenji!

 

[MogulKahn]

I saw those models, and I must admit, not bad, not bad at all !

 

[Heinvers]

takakenji!

Good choice. Will continue to follow this ^^

 

[Argos]

Good choice. Will continue to follow this ^^

Oh come on!

z00rtaz is doing a great job too, check out his new grunt models.

 

[Vinz]

*chills* Those screenshots look really exciting and promising!

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

I tried out the Beta, It's amazing how much you guys have done, Any thing i see wrong is all polish, there is no real fundamental flaws, So i will just offer a few points of advice, with the reminder that i understand it's a work in progress,

I would strongly recommend getting a good selection of tall savanna grass doodads, and filling out most of the empty space with them, leaving the sand as paths directing players to points of interest, without closing them in,

If the modelers feel burnt out, try working with fel orcs for one of the clans, they have a huge model stock, and can easily be explained as just ritualistically staining their skin with blood, this is only if you are still having to use basic unit models for heroes,

Some more wild life would also be nice, I have seen a nice selection of animal models, this could also help get more crafting components to expand that feature,

Maybe give the banner carrier a normal unit inventory, so some early game hunting is more useful,

It would be really nice if some more details about the heroes and units of a faction were listed in their quest info,

And finally, Maybe have clans that aren't chosen build up over time, and follow a very simple defensive AI, to keep a small garrison, so if you play alone or without a full collection of friends, someone doesn't get a cheap win because they started next to an enemy without any defense,

 

[MogulKahn]

Where can I try out that beta?

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

The map maker said it himself there is a few beta versions at makemehost.com, Just go to maps select maps download and search under W for it.

 

[Argos]

I tried out the Beta, It's amazing how much you guys have done, Any thing i see wrong is all polish, there is no real fundamental flaws, So i will just offer a few points of advice, with the reminder that i understand it's a work in progress,

I would strongly recommend getting a good selection of tall savanna grass doodads, and filling out most of the empty space with them, leaving the sand as paths directing players to points of interest, without closing them in,

If the modelers feel burnt out, try working with fel orcs for one of the clans, they have a huge model stock, and can easily be explained as just ritualistically staining their skin with blood, this is only if you are still having to use basic unit models for heroes,

Some more wild life would also be nice, I have seen a nice selection of animal models, this could also help get more crafting components to expand that feature,

Maybe give the banner carrier a normal unit inventory, so some early game hunting is more useful,

It would be really nice if some more details about the heroes and units of a faction were listed in their quest info,

And finally, Maybe have clans that aren't chosen build up over time, and follow a very simple defensive AI, to keep a small garrison, so if you play alone or without a full collection of friends, someone doesn't get a cheap win because they started next to an enemy without any defense,

Wow, thanks a lot for your comment!

It has a lot of potential and it is really interesting to read. Your suggestions are great and i hope we can make them reality, but first we need to concentrate ourselves more on core-game.

Terrain is our biggest problem for now. Im looking for a formidable terrainer, which will turn the landscape to something epic and unique. Wa666r is currently developing great new abilities for our 24 heroes + more will come and modelers are busy with my ideas and i dont think we need to use any fel orcs

 

[Binsu]

I'm really liking how this project unfolds. I'll be downloading this beta map and probably, give a review if possible. Depends on how I handle time wisely.

Good luck on this project anyway, Argos.

 

[MogulKahn]

Wow, thanks a lot for your comment!

It has a lot of potential and it is really interesting to read. Your suggestions are great and i hope we can make them reality, but first we need to concentrate ourselves more on core-game.

Terrain is our biggest problem for now. Im looking for a formidable terrainer, which will turn the landscape to something epic and unique. Wa666r is currently developing great new abilities for our 24 heroes + more will come and modelers are busy with my ideas and i dont think we need to use any fel orcs

Whit no Fel Orc models you mean no "real" Fel Orc models or no Fel Orc models where their skin is recolored into green color?

 

[Argos]

Whit no Fel Orc models you mean no "real" Fel Orc models or no Fel Orc models where their skin is recolored into green color?

I think there are few fel orc recolored models, but not much. If you have any suggestions what fel orc models should we use, I'll look at it.

I also accept ideas of all kinds, feel free to share

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

I just noticed that your change log says you have a version 1.5, where can i download it? I have 1.4, i feel bad critiquing the map a version behind,

 

[Argos]

I just noticed that your change log says you have a version 1.5, where can i download it? I have 1.4, i feel bad critiquing the map a version behind,

My bad, version 1.5 is still in progress. Im updating the changelog over time to not forget important things. Updated with -in progress- text. Sorry again.

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

My bad, version 1.5 is still in progress. Im updating the changelog over time to not forget important things. Updated with -in progress- text. Sorry again.

OH Ok then no trouble,

A few more thoughts from more time spent playing,

Could you put a few empty mine carts or torches near mines? they are very missable,

And Maybe a few neutral trading posts? to my knowledge there are only about 3 places to sell things, at least one of which is temporary,

And I know they are low priority, but could the humans get an alternate to Faith/Art of death? they just feel very limited next to the orcs, Maybe have Technology/Warlock based alternate options.

 

[Argos]

I created a new poll about grunt icons. Each clan has 1 unique melee grunt with clan-specific model. Should all of them also have their own icon or standart grunt icon is sufficient? Vote now! (Peon option is for passive people aka peons)

@Thanotos 0megarcs Don't worry everything will be added/fixed in next version.

 

[Vinz]

Standard is okay.

 

[Heinvers]

Standard is okay.

...but a bit of diversity won't hurt

 

[Vinz]

A player shouldn't control more than one clan anyways (unless otherwise), and I have to report you for disagreeing.

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

I think the basic Icon is OK, it will be easier on new players and save resources, other units like Berserkers and the like could use the Icons more,

 

[Argos]

It's currently draw. I personally think that some models like Direfury Stalker require some icons, but it's either 8 new icons for each model or none at all. That is the main problem.

 

[MogulKahn]

I have tried your 1.4 version, and here is my review of it.
First thing is terrain. Honestly I don't like it. Why? Because it's all just boring wasteland. What I expected is to see Norgseer orcs in some kind of snowy mountain area, Dreadfire on that undead terrain, Mountain clan in the rocky mountains, Spiritar maybe savanna?, Direfury some kind of desert, Skullcrush wasteland, Bloodbane normal grass terrain? and maybe Stormfell in the stormy mountains, covered whit lightnings and disruption.
Second thing remove hero glow from all non-hero units.
Third and for me the most important thing. I want to see every clan to be unique, honestly I don't think they are unique if they have 2 different units and a hero... Maybe Bannerbearer to remain same, or Peons, but melee, ranged units, casters even siege units should be different. Don't use same models for different units.
And in the end, every hero should be unique. I am alright whit wc3 ladder abilities, but please don't use same spells for different heroes...
I know it is still in the beta, but that was just my 2 cents, I hope you keep up whit this great project !

If you have problems whit your map size, maybe you can use that Nirvana mode?

 

[z00rtaz]

It's currently draw. I personally think that some models like Direfury Stalker require some icons, but it's either 8 new icons for each model or none at all. That is the main problem.

Icons costs around 12 kB (since they require both a btn and disbtn) and are, if the quality of screenshot suffices, incredibly easy to make.


To prove my point, I made this in 2 minutes tops


If it is production of 8 icons of this quality that is considered a problem, I can make all of them myself. If they should be freehanded or otherwise, I will hurry back to my MDLvis cave.

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

I was scrolling through stuff when i saw this, I thought it may make a good replacement for the hero lich model that is currently being used as a basic unit, (Which is a minor pet peeve of mine)

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...rev=search=death%20knight&r=20&d=list&page=18

EDIT: And found a nice Assassin looking non hero Orc,

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...prev=search=orc%20assassin&r=20&d=list&page=9

 

[Argos]

Well, first of all I want to react on MogulKhan's comment. Version 1.4b is whole made by me like 2 months ago, I received no help from anyone and it was supposed to be a scratch map. With my current team we can slowly progress forward, we already made a great deal of work and I'm proud what this thread has become.

Also were trying to keep the map under 8.2 mb to make it playable on battle-net, which is almost impossible in big projects like this. For example APproject's Iceborn is a flawless map, but it's single player so it can be easily 90 mb or more. We currently have 24 heroes each with different model and around 35 unit types with different models, don't forget about all decorations and terrain filled with tons of grass and snow and whatever. Each model is in range from 100 - 300kb. Now try to count it up and imagine how hard is to make all clans with ALL units unique. We're doing what we can, but it's not easy task and it takes a lot of time to do.

@z00rtaz I don't think it's a problem to do those icons. Maybe some drawing would be however better than a screenshot crop.

@thanotos 0mega Lich is interesting, but I see no reason to waste another 76kb of our space if we have standard wc3 lich. Watcher model is out of table... 250kb is a killing number.

 

[Vinz]

Either Local Files or A Void's 8 mb limit remover.

 

[Argos]

Either Local Files or A Void's 8 mb limit remover.

I don't personally like limit removers, they are often buggy and create more problems than good. What did you mean by local files?

 

[Heinvers]

Okay then, just stick to what you do here.

First thing is terrain. Honestly I don't like it. Why? Because it's all just boring wasteland.

;C
It's still being worked on you know ;P

 

[Vinz]

Do you have Jass New Gen?

 

[Argos]

Do you have Jass New Gen?

Of course, otherwise i wouldnt put all those decorations in there.

 

[Vinz]

Extensions -> enable Local Files

Then create a folder in your Wc3 directory. Put models in there. Then just write th paths in the Object Editor; <foldername>\<modelname>.mdl

Afterwards, when uploading, zip the folder. Upload it as well.

 

[Argos]

Extensions -> enable Local Files

Then create a folder in your Wc3 directory. Put models in there. Then just write th paths in the Object Editor; <foldername>\<modelname>.mdl

Afterwards, when uploading, zip the folder. Upload it as well.

Oh, now i understand.

Yes it is interesting, but imposible to be hosted on makemehost for example. You see, many battle-net players are not fimiliar with hiveworkshop and i dont think they will bother to download extra files from this site.

Im doing this becuse more than 80% of my daily players are not on hiveworkshop and cutting them off would be really bad. I'd rather suffer all the pain to keep the map at 8.2mb.

 

[Thanotos 0mega]

@thanotos 0mega Lich is interesting, but I see no reason to waste another 76kb of our space if we have standard wc3 lich. Watcher model is out of table... 250kb is a killing number.

I understand what your saying, Then maybe bump the necromancer model up to the lich's place and use the acolyte or skeleton mage model to replace it, I know this sound really whiny, But hero glow on a non hero unit is a major potential strategic problem, As a player can spam the units to help hide his hero, or fake out players into thinking they have a hero when they don't

 

[AL0NE]

@Argos

I understand the filesize limit for multiplayers has always been a nuisance, but in a sense it actually teaches us to manage the contents and focus on what matters and what's not. So that depends on you, it's your map after all. That being said, I rmber there are a few optimizations that you can do to reduce the overall filesize.

For imported models, I recall the modelling program Mdlvis (that's what I rmbered) have a function to optimize the custom models and cut down the filesize. In some case, I do recall it can shave down more than 100kb. As for imported sounds/musics, there are also few measures you can take to reduce their filesize by alot, without noticable quality loss.

Well that are the few things I recall. Do note that I've stop map making stuffs for more than a year, so I'm sorry if some of the things I said are no longer viable. :S For example, maybe the recent models all are optimized so we won't be able to reduce their filesize anymore? :/

Anyway I'm just trying to help out with what I know. I'm liking the map's current progress too. Cheers

 

[Chaosy]

oh yeah, I remember this project.. seems like you've stepped it up one level or two when it comes to thread layout.

I might consider to aid you a 'little' on this one..

 

[Argos]

@AL0NE Well, i always optimize my maps as much as i can. It also gives a protection against theft. z00rtaz is doing all he can to keep his models under 100kb, i saw some comments in model section telling him to make the model "heavier" or "prettier" or "more armor!", but the reason why all those models are so simple is becuse of their size.

@Chaosy Yeah, AL0NE gave me a boost with his flawless 2D skills. Aid is always welcome here, what do you offer to help us with?

 

[AL0NE]

Ah I see. That's great. After all gameplay is the core of a map. A map can contains all the extravagant models & effects, but without much playability it won't be better than any other map either. Aesthetics or finishing touches should come later as you see fit. Hope to see further progress of the map. Good luck mate.

 

[Chaosy]

Triggering or coding. You name it. You might want to discuses details via PM and not here though.

 

[Argos]

@AL0NE I totaly agree with you. Thanks for your kind words of wisdom

@Chaosy Yes, expect my private message soon. Thanks

 

[Argos]

Chaosy joined our project as our new Triggerer & Coder! Welcome!

 

[Wa666r]

Wow! Nice to see the project expanding. My work with the heroes is making steady progress.

 

[Argos]

Wow! Nice to see the project expanding. My work with the heroes is making steady progress.

Yeah, now just a decend terrainer and somebody for icons.

 

[Heinvers]

Yeah, now just a decend terrainer and somebody for icons.

Whait. WUT? o.o you do decent ones lol.

 

[Argos]

Whait. WUT? o.o you do decent ones lol.

Alright so one totaly super-great full hd terrainer, who would blow our minds.

 

[Vinz]

Heinvers.

 

[Heinvers]

@CakeMaster
Well......

Too lazy for that. I'd just be a burden, so I have to turn down my nomination deer CakeMaster.

@Argos I hope you find another one