• Listen to a special audio message from Bill Roper to the Hive Workshop community (Bill is a former Vice President of Blizzard Entertainment, Producer, Designer, Musician, Voice Actor) 🔗Click here to hear his message!
  • Read Evilhog's interview with Gregory Alper, the original composer of the music for WarCraft: Orcs & Humans 🔗Click here to read the full interview.

[vJASS] Dynamic Indexing Tutorial

Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
Hi everybody !
Today, I’ll explain you how to use properly dynamic indexing with structs (so in vJASS :D)!
I’ll not explain how struct works (it is not the goal of this tutorial) but how to properly index them to render spells MUI.



I – Introduction
Okay I hope you know how works struct because as I just said before I’ll not explain how they work.
I’ll show two manners to do this indexing :
- The first way is C-like which means that we will use structs just as data.
- The second way is Java-like which means that we will use methods and static member to do so.
I hope you know a bit how work indexing otherwise I’ll explain this just now (and again later in the code commentaries).
Dynamic indexing’s goal is to do MUI spells!
If you ever did so in GUI you remembered that it needs one array for each thing you want to store about the spell. Now with structs we will just have to store the struct inside a struct array and there we go, we will be able to access every member!
To do dynamic indexing we also need an index that will increase when an instance will fire and that will decrease when an instance will be finished and recycled.



II – What spell will we do?
We will do a timed damage spell.
It will deal 75 damage per second over 3 seconds.
So we will have to store:
- The caster of the spell (to know which unit will deal damages) => caster
- The target of the spell (to know which unit will get damaged) => target
- The amount of damage => damage
- The time there is before the damaging => temp
- How many times will we have to hit the target before the end of the spell => steps
So we got our struct members just above!
Now, how the spell will work: the caster cast the spell, then 1s later the target got the damage. So we will need a periodic function that decrease the temp value and when the temp value is below or equal to 0 we will damage the target and recycle the index.



III – The spell
So we will start with global variables we need:
JASS:
 globals
    private integer dindex = -1
    private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
    private timer period = CreateTimer()
endglobals
So there is our index that will start to -1 and each time an instance fire we will increase it by one so we will start to the index 0. We got our FPS of 0.0312500 which is surely one of the best period interval you can have.
Why it is a good period ? Because 1/0.0312500=32 so we have an integer number for the number of period per second :)
And at last we create a timer.
Now we will create our struct:
JASS:
private struct tempDat
    unit caster
    unit target
    real temp
    real damage
    integer steps
endstruct

Now we need a struct array!
So we will just add it to our global block:
JASS:
 globals
    private integer dindex = -1
    private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
    private tempDat array data
    private timer period = CreateTimer()
endglobals
Okay now we will use a scope to implement our spell so the code looks like this :
JASS:
scope MySuperCoolSpell initializer init
    globals
        private integer dindex = -1
        private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
        private tempDat array data
        private timer period = CreateTimer()
    endglobals

    private struct tempDat
        unit caster
        unit target
        real temp
        real damage
        integer steps
    endstruct

    private function cond takes nothing returns boolean
        if GetSpellAbilityId() == OurSpellId then
      
        endif
        return false
    endfunction

    private function init takes nothing returns nothing
        local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ(t, EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_EFFECT)
        call TriggerAddCondition(t, Condition(function cond))
        set t = null
    endfunction
endscope
Okay I implemented the init function and the condition function (with nothing inside ^-^)!
Now we will implement the beginning of the condition function!
JASS:
private function cond takes nothing returns boolean
    local tempDat this
    if GetSpellAbilityId() == OurSpellId then
        //We create an instance of tempDat
        set this = tempDat.create()
        //We store the caster of the spell
        set this.caster = GetTriggerUnit()
        //We store the target of the spell
        set this.target = GetSpellTargetUnit()
        //We store the damage of the spell
        set this.damage = 75 * GetUnitAbilityLevel(this.caster, OurSpellId)
        //We store in how many times the spell will deal damage.
        set this.temp = 1
        //We will do the damage three times.
        set this.steps = 3
    endif
    return false
endfunction
Ok so I chose 75*level and 1s for fun you can freely change them or better store them into globals block for the second) or into constant function before the core spell but I’ll just interest myself to the indexing.

So I’ll implement the indexing :
JASS:
 private function cond takes nothing returns boolean
    local tempDat this
    if GetSpellAbilityId() == OurSpellId then
        //We create an instance of tempDat
        set this = tempDat.create()
        //We store the caster of the spell
        set this.caster = GetTriggerUnit()
        //We store the target of the spell
        set this.target = GetSpellTargetUnit()
        //We store the damage of the spell
        set this.damage = 75 * GetUnitAbilityLevel(this.caster, OurSpellId)
        //We store in how many times the spell will deal damage.
        set this.temp = 1
        // We will do the damage three times.
        set this.steps = 3
        //We increase our index by one.
        set dindex = dindex + 1
        //We store our struct instance into the array.
        set data[dindex] = this
        //if the array was empty before
        if dindex == 0 then
            //We start the timer (I didn’t create the periodic function for the moment wait !)
            call TimerStart(period, FPS, true, function periodic)
        endif
    endif
    return false
endfunction
So to rephrase this we increase our index, we store the struct instance and if the array was empty so we start our timer.
Sweet clear isn’t it :) ?
Now let’s do our periodic function:
JASS:
private function periodic takes nothing returns nothing
    local tempDat this
    local integer i = 0
    loop
        exitwhen i>dindex
        set this = data[i]
        …
        set i = i + 1
    endloop
endfunction
With this we’ll loop through every struct instance we stored before.
Now we will do the core of the spell (nothing complicated xD) : we have to decrease the temp value of FPS each time we run the periodic function and if the temp value is expired we have to damage thetargeted unit :
JASS:
private function periodic takes nothing returns nothing
    local integer i = 0
    local tempDat this
    loop
        exitwhen i>dindex
        set this = data[i]
        set this.temp = this.temp-FPS
        if this.temp <= 0 then
            call UnitDamageTarget(this.caster, this.target, this.damage, true, false, ATTACK_TYPE_MAGIC, DAMAGE_TYPE_MAGIC,null)
            //We decrement the number of times we damaged the unit.
            set this.steps = this.steps - 1
            //If it the third time the unit is damaged so we will stop the spell
            if this.steps == 0 then
                //Wash leaks :)
                set this.caster = null
                //Wash leaks :)
                set this.target = null
                //The spell is finish we don’t need to have this struct anymore.
                //We will see the recycle after
                call this.destroy()
            //Otherwise we continue the spell by setting the temp value to 1 again.
            else
                set this.temp = 1
            endif
        endif
        set i = i + 1
    endloop
endfunction
Now we have to recycle our index:
JASS:
set data[i] = data[dindex]
set i = i – 1
set dindex = dindex – 1
To explain this piece of code we put the last stored instance to the position where an instance has been destroyed and we decrement of one both index.
Now we implement it:
JASS:
private function periodic takes nothing returns nothing
    local integer i = 0
    local tempDat this
    loop
        exitwhen i>dindex
        set this = data[i]
        set this.temp = this.temp-FPS
        if this.temp <= 0 then
            call UnitDamageTarget(this.caster, this.target, this.damage, true, false, ATTACK_TYPE_MAGIC, DAMAGE_TYPE_MAGIC,null)
            //We decrement the number of times we damaged the unit.
            set this.steps = this.steps - 1
            //If it the third time the unit is damaged so we will stop the spell
            if this.steps == 0 then
                //Wash leaks :)
                set this.caster = null
                //Wash leaks :)
                set this.target = null
                set data[i] = data[dindex]
                set i = i – 1
                set dindex = dindex – 1
                //The spell is finish we don’t need to have this struct anymore.
                call this.destroy()
            //Otherwise we continue the spell by setting the temp value to 1 again.
            else
                set this.temp = 1
            endif
        endif
        set i = i + 1
    endloop
endfunction
Okay now there is still one problem !
The timer will run forever even if we got no instance :/
So we’ll have to check if your index is equal to -1 (meaning the array is empty):
JASS:
if dindex == -1 then
    call PauseTimer(period)
endif

So here is the result :
JASS:
scope MySuperCoolSpell initializer init
    globals
        private integer dindex = -1
        private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
        private timer period = CreateTimer()
    endglobals
   
    private struct tempDat
        unit caster
        unit target
        real temp
        real damage
        integer steps
               
        method destroy takes nothing returns nothing
            //Wash leaks
            this.caster = null
            this.target = null
            if dindex == -1 then
                call PauseTimer(period)
            endif
            call this.deallocate()
        endmethod
    endstruct
   
    //Sometimes it bugs if you declare this before the struct so in the final result I put it after for safety.
    globals
        private tempDat array data
    endglobals
   
    private function periodic takes nothing returns nothing
        local integer i = 0
        local tempDat this
        loop
            exitwhen i>dindex
            set this = data[i]
            set this.temp = this.temp-FPS
            if this.temp <= 0 then
                call UnitDamageTarget(this.caster, this.target, this.damage, true, false, ATTACK_TYPE_MAGIC, DAMAGE_TYPE_MAGIC,null)
                set this.steps = this.steps - 1
                if this.steps == 0 then
                    set data[i] = data[dindex]
                    set i = i - 1
                    set dindex = dindex - 1
                    call this.destroy()
                else
                    set this.temp = 1
                endif
            endif
            set i = i + 1
        endloop
    endfunction
   
    private function cond takes nothing returns boolean
        local tempDat this
        if GetSpellAbilityId() == 'A000' then
            set this = tempDat.create()
            set this.caster = GetTriggerUnit()
            set this.target = GetSpellTargetUnit()
            set this.temp = 1
            set this.damage = 75*GetUnitAbilityLevel(this.caster, 'A000')
            set this.steps = 3
            set dindex = dindex + 1
            set data[dindex] = this
            if dindex == 0 then
                call TimerStart(period, FPS, true, function periodic)
            endif
        endif
        return false
    endfunction
   
    private function init takes nothing returns nothing
        local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ(t, EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_EFFECT)
        call TriggerAddCondition(t, Condition(function cond))
        set t = null
    endfunction
endscope




IV - Now within the struct
I'll put the code with commentary to show you how to do it only in the struct :
JASS:
scope MySuperCoolSpell
    globals
        private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
    endglobals
   
    private struct tempDat
        unit caster
        unit target
        real temp
        real damage
        integer steps
        //Static members work like globals :)
        static integer dindex
        static timer period
        static thistype array data
       
        method destroy takes nothing returns nothing
            //Wash leaks
            this.caster = null
            this.target = null
            if dindex == -1 then
                call PauseTimer(period)
            endif
            call this.deallocate()
        endmethod
       
        static method periodic takes nothing returns nothing
            local integer i = 0
            local tempDat this
            loop
                exitwhen i>dindex
                set this = data[i]
                set this.temp = this.temp-FPS
                if this.temp <= 0 then
                    call UnitDamageTarget(this.caster, this.target, this.damage, true, false, ATTACK_TYPE_MAGIC, DAMAGE_TYPE_MAGIC,null)
                    set this.steps = this.steps - 1
                    if this.steps == 0 then
                        set data[i] = data[dindex]
                        set i = i - 1
                        set dindex = dindex - 1
                        call this.destroy()
                    else
                        set this.temp = 1
                    endif
                endif
                set i = i + 1
            endloop
        endmethod
       
        static method cond takes nothing returns boolean
            //Thistype is replaced by the name of the struct :)
            local thistype this
            if GetSpellAbilityId() == 'A000' then
                set this = thistype.allocate() //Exactly the same as create
                set this.caster = GetTriggerUnit()
                set this.target = GetSpellTargetUnit()
                set this.temp = 1
                set this.damage = 75*GetUnitAbilityLevel(this.caster, 'A000')
                set this.steps = 3
                set dindex = dindex + 1
                set data[dindex] = this
                if dindex == 0 then
                    call TimerStart(period, FPS, true, function thistype.periodic)
                endif           
            endif
            return false
        endmethod
       
        //This method is called at the begginning of the map.
        //The keyword onInit does it.
        static method onInit takes nothing returns nothing
            local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
            call TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ(t, EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_EFFECT)
            call TriggerAddCondition(t, Condition(function thistype.cond))
            //I personally prefer to instanciate static members there just a point of view
            //You can do it in their declaration too it is the same.
            set dindex = -1
            set period = CreateTimer()
            set t = null
        endmethod
    endstruct
endscope



Conclusion
Here you made a MUI spell in vJASS.
Feel free to add more configurable things like this after the globals to make this more user-friendly :
JASS:
private constant function Damage takes integer level returns real
    return 75.*level
endfunction

Thanks for reading and feel free to tell me what do you think of it !


Malhorne :)
 
Last edited:
Nice tutorial overall. The content is fine. However, I think overall it would be a bit better to do a periodic spell as an example, such as a DoT spell, just because you don't normally associate a looping timer with a one-shot sort of spell. The spell in your example deals damage after "1 second", which would probably make more sense with a TimerUtils approach (just wait 1 second and then deal damage vs. 32 loops of 0.03125 seconds before doing damage).

If you change it to a DoT (damage over time) type of spell (or anything like that), it'll be a perfect example of using dynamic indexing + a timer.

Otherwise, it is pretty well done. nj. I might need to fix some grammar though, are you okay with that?
 
Level 23
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
4,041
Nice tutorial overall. The content is fine. However, I think overall it would be a bit better to do a periodic spell as an example, such as a DoT spell, just because you don't normally associate a looping timer with a one-shot sort of spell. The spell in your example deals damage after "1 second", which would probably make more sense with a TimerUtils approach (just wait 1 second and then deal damage vs. 32 loops of 0.03125 seconds before doing damage).

If you change it to a DoT (damage over time) type of spell (or anything like that), it'll be a perfect example of using dynamic indexing + a timer.

Otherwise, it is pretty well done. nj. I might need to fix some grammar though, are you okay with that?

Yes, it is not too efficient as is, but I prefer having one timer personally

Imagine you have 150 instances running, you would have to have 150 timers
 
Level 19
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
1,716
Not bad, still it lacks read-ability (not the code, but the whole tutorial).
While the content is good, I wasn't really caught by the presentation.
For instance one of the best tuts we have is the dynamic indexing from Purge,
it is short, well highlighted and easy to understand.

What we do need are very user(beginner)-friendly tutorials for correct vJass usage. People must get into the subject matter as fast as possible. The key is to let them know that what they do in GUI is as easy in vJass.

If I come up with a proper layout or constructive ideas I'll let you know.

- For now don't use the whole page from left to right for one sentence.
- Make the content short, but distinct -->
So after 1s it will deal, damage, then after another second, it will deal damage, and again after the last second it will deal damage.
It will deal 5 damage per second over 3 seconds.
We got our FPS of 0.0312500 which is surely one of the best period interval you can have.
I see this quite often. People say something is awesome or bad, but don't eplain why.
Something like 0.03125 is handy, because it is 1/32 of a second, speaking about such don't be over-correct (if this word even exists ^^).

Finally:
JASS:
/*
*   I like these comments more .... 
*   because with spacing you can seperate
*   your code into blocks
*
*   Use spacing so eyes and head don't
*   have to move too much.
*/
if this != 0 then
    /*
    *   Check whatsoever
    */
    if IsThisAwesome(evidence) then
        
    endif
    /*
    *   Here we do ...
    */
endif

Good luck with this. :thumbs_up:
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
Thanks for your review.
I posted only this tut among the three I did because it is the only one which is at least somewhat read-able ^^'
I've a huge JASS tutorial but it is not that good to read (even if people manage to learn JASS through it xD) ....
I'm pretty bad to make something read-able because I don't see what it needs to be so :/
So thanks for pointing some idea !

EDIT : Corrected some mistakes and changed some things you pointed.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
7
Hello, you're tutorial is very short but it is something, I really want to learn vJass. I did configure something in your spell code ( ehm or trigger i guess. ) I just want something to get clarify

JASS:
scope MySuperCoolSpell
    globals
        private constant real FPS = 0.0312500
    endglobals
    
    private struct tempDat
        unit caster
        unit target
        real x
        real y
        real temp
        real damage
        
        integer duration
        //Static members work like globals :)
        static integer dindex
        static timer period
        static thistype array data
        
        method destroy takes nothing returns nothing
            if dindex == -1 then
                call PauseTimer(period)
            endif
            call this.deallocate()
        endmethod
        
        static method periodic takes nothing returns nothing
            local integer i = 0
            local tempDat this
            loop
                exitwhen i>dindex
                set this = data[i]
                set this.temp = this.temp-FPS
                set this.x = GetWidgetX(this.caster)
                set this.y = GetWidgetY(this.caster)
                call SetUnitPosition(this.target, this.x, this.y)
                if this.temp <= 0 then
                    call UnitDamageTarget(this.caster, this.target, this.damage, true, false, ATTACK_TYPE_MAGIC, DAMAGE_TYPE_MAGIC,null)
                    call AddSpecialEffectTarget( "Objects\\Spawnmodels\\Critters\\Albatross\\CritterBloodAlbatross.mdl", this.caster, "head" )
                    call DestroyEffect( GetLastCreatedEffectBJ() )
                    set this.duration = this.duration - 1
                    if this.duration == 0 then
                        call PauseUnit ( this.target, false )
                        call ShowUnitShow ( this.target )
                        call SetUnitPathing ( this.target, true )
                        set this.caster = null
                        set this.target = null
                        set data[i] = data[dindex]
                        set i = i - 1
                        set dindex = dindex - 1
                        call this.destroy()
                    else
                        set this.temp = 1
                    endif
                endif
                set i = i + 1
            endloop
        endmethod
        
        static method cond takes nothing returns boolean
            //Thistype is replaced by the name of the struct :)
            local thistype this
            if GetSpellAbilityId() == 'AHtb' then
                set this = thistype.allocate() //Exactly the same as create
                set this.caster = GetTriggerUnit()
                set this.target = GetSpellTargetUnit()
                call PauseUnit ( this.target, true )
                call ShowUnitHide ( this.target )
                call SetUnitPathing ( this.target, false )
                set this.temp = 1
                set this.damage = 15*GetUnitAbilityLevel(this.caster, 'AHtb')
                set this.duration = 3
                set dindex = dindex + 1
                set data[dindex] = this
                if dindex == 0 then
                    call TimerStart(period, FPS, true, function thistype.periodic)
                endif            
            endif
            return false
        endmethod
        
        //This method is called at the begginning of the map.
        //The keyword onInit does it.
        static method onInit takes nothing returns nothing
            local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
            call TriggerRegisterAnyUnitEventBJ(t, EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_EFFECT)
            call TriggerAddCondition(t, Condition(function thistype.cond))
            set dindex = -1
            set period = CreateTimer()
            set t = null
        endmethod
    endstruct
endscope

PLEASE DO CHECK IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG.

and 1 more question, if i'm gonna make another spell which part of the code should or needed to be changed, i mean in gui if use the variable caster in the next spell you need to use caster2 something like that ... I hope i'm getting somewhere with my question :grin:
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
ShowUnitHide(this.target) -> ShowUnit(this.target, false)

JASS:
call AddSpecialEffectTarget( "Objects\\Spawnmodels\\Critters\\Albatross\\CritterBloodAlbatross.mdl", this.caster, "head" )
                    call DestroyEffect( GetLastCreatedEffectBJ() )
->
call DestroyEffect(AddSpecialEffectTarget( "Objects\\Spawnmodels\\Critters\\Albatross\\CritterBloodAlbatross.mdl", this.caster, "head" ))

call PauseUnit ( this.target, true )
PauseUnit is a bad function to use -> I would rather use the Stun System or use a custom stun.

set this.x = GetWidgetX(this.caster)
Better use GetUnitX/Y they are faster.

call SetUnitPosition(this.target, this.x, this.y)
Use SetUnitX/Y it is faster.
Then don't forget to use BoundSentinel by Vexorian.

JASS:
set this.x = GetWidgetX(this.caster)
                set this.y = GetWidgetY(this.caster)
                call SetUnitPosition(this.target, this.x, this.y)
This piece of code does pretty nothing since you're moving the unit to its position.

call ShowUnitShow ( this.target )
->
call ShowUnit(this.target, true)

Then in your code you never deal the damage.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
7
This piece of code does pretty nothing since you're moving the unit to its position. call ShowUnitShow ( this.target )
->
call ShowUnit(this.target, true)

Then in your code you never deal the damage.

I don't get this one. The spell was based on devour so I tried to hide the unit, it still get the damage.

Thanks. I think I will get use to this.

+rep
 
This tutorial teaches bad OOP styles.

The cleaning of leaks should always be done in the onDestroy method, not manually from within the calling method (in your case, "periodic").


This is so that when destroying the struct from the outside, your spell will not crash or leave any uncleaned leaks.

.destroy() should always be coded in a way to correctly terminate the struct and all of it's members in a single call, no matter what the execution state of the spell is. It should immediately stop and destroy all timers and free all handle variables.
If the spell creates a dummy unit or special effect, it should also remove the dummy unit and effect instead of just nulling the variables.
This not only avoids potential bugs, but it also allows for extra functionality, like having spells that immediately terminate all ongoing spell effects.

Also, replacing the static method create by something that takes the initial struct members as parameters is a good practice to reduce the number of lines required for each struct allocation.


Also, for indexing spells (to be honest, I always prefer having an individual timer per spell instance, as it gets rid of all the indexing overhead and shortens the code), I recommend having a base indexed spell struct and extend your spells upon it.
This avoids repetition of code and allows easier access from the outside.

Basicly:

struct MySpell extends Spell

This way, each new index-based spell reuses the base structure from Spell and only adds custom callbacks on top of it, which eliminates repeating the index structure again and again.


If you want to get extra fancy, you can add another layer of abstraction to it, with each layer adding new members to your base struct:

struct Flamethrower extends ChanneledDot extends Spell


PS: Reminds me ... someone really has to write styleguides for vJass.
 
Last edited:
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
I'm not here to prove the known fact that onDestroy and extends aren't good pratice in vJASS :)
I can freely put the output code of onDestroy (creating a trigger and evaluating it), or extends (which generates onDestroy methods).

EDIT : Obviously the pattern described by Zwiebelchen with the extends sounds good but isn't efficient in vJASS.
 
I'm not here to prove the known fact that onDestroy and extends aren't good pratice in vJASS :)
I can freely put the output code of onDestroy (creating a trigger and evaluating it), or extends (which generates onDestroy methods).

EDIT : Obviously the pattern described by Zwiebelchen with the extends sounds good but isn't efficient in vJASS.
A tutorial that aims to teach people about vJass should never be about efficiency. It should be about readability and clear, logical structure.

There is no point in teaching beginners bad practices just because they are slightly faster.

There is a reason vJass was created. And that reason wasn't speed. It was to bring order into the chaos. Creating more chaos just because it's slightly faster than order is just plain wrong.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
So I'll teach them inefficient ways in order them to write inefficient spells in order them to be corrected in spell sections when they could learn could pratice in tutorials ?

What I am explaining is not at all a bad practice.
We're not in Java with UML and design pattern everywhere.
 
So I'll teach them inefficient ways in order them to write inefficient spells in order them to be corrected in spell sections when they could learn could pratice in tutorials ?

What I am explaining is not at all a bad practice.
We're not in Java with UML and design pattern everywhere.
Nobody has ever rejected a clean and well-structured spell resource just for the lack of minor speed improvements.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
Yes nobody rejects but "needs fix" is sometimes used in this case.
I mean go to Jass section and you will see.
And people will always tell you to fix some efficiency tricks.

For instance, why using onDestroy methods when you can do everything inside the destroy methods ?
Why ?
For nothing. Except the fact of calling a trigger. Which adds memory taken by the map and execution time.

EDIT :
JassHelper Manual said:
It is best to avoid implementing features that look cool in paper but do not plain work when compiled.
 
Level 23
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
4,041
this is not problem of the efficiency of the language, but the way mods see the not so usual vJass constructs, like interfaces, polymorphism, inheritance or even hooks.

Are you really going to say its so inefficient? If we wanted efficient stuff, we wouldnt be coding for wc3 to begin with.

Firing trigger adds to memory and execution time

1. While it will take longer, if it is like 1 microsecond longer, its literally unnoticable.
2. memory? not like we have 256 MB ram chips nowadays.

If size was concern, Iceborn wouldn't be approved, because it itself is 100 MB map, which means that 100 MB of stuff needs to be loaded into RAM even before you heat up VM.

onDestroy is indeed kind of funny yes.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
There is a good way to do extending with delegate still. Why people tend to use this extends :s

I like coding for wc3, I don't see why you say that I should quit if I want my code to be efficient regarding vJASS.
You say that everyone shouldn't care about efficiency and calling BJs and every features of vJASS involving trigger firing ?
I played maps that heavily lag because of triggers mostly.

War3 is still limited to 2gb ram.
 
Level 23
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
4,041
I dont say you should quick, but you know, read my signature.

+ I didnt really mention programming per se, but tutorials as Zwieb said.

You think 1 trigger evaluation will bring you to 2 gigs of ram?

Also people usually do loops for AnyUnitEvent, but there is completly fine native, and in onInit 1 more function call is barely any overhead to notice it on loading.

You can be as efficient as you want, but shoving rejects or need fixes into other people's necks(I dont say you do it, but generally it happens) just because of polymorphism or inheritance is plain retardment. The code does what it is meant to, and unless it is really critical system(Timer stuff is all I can think of that is really crucially critical) its not really problem
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
No but assume you have 1000 structs in a good map. It is not impossible at all.
With extending.
It could easily come up with 2000 thousands more trigger and evaluating :s
Ahah yes the AnyUnitEvent xD
Init stuff isn't really a problem, people should understand this. Better to loose time on init that in game.

Yeah the timer sounds important to me too. 100 spells, 10 issues per spell -> 1000 timer running only for spell, that's bad.

After I agree on the fact that some optimizations are not that important and I'm far too much concerned about it and that's one of my default.
 
It's still bad style of coding. Especially all the "magic hacks" that basicly break the original intention of vJass ("struct extends array"...). There is a reason why onDestroy() was implemented. There is a reason why inheritance is there. It's because vJass aims to replicate a "real" OOP language.
And I want to add: it does this job quite fine. Most people that learn OOP styles will immediately feel familiar with the syntax and interfaces. vJass is user comfort. OOP is about avoiding bugs through clear code structure and never having to repeat yourself.

Not using extends just because it creates code copies is just stupid. I don't care how vJass works behind the scenes. What I care about is having readable, easily maintainable code. Everything that deviates from typical OOP style and every single one of those hacks applied undermine the whole idea of vJass.


Think about it: vJass compiles to plain Jass. So if you care about speed, why even code in vJass? Just use the original unmodified Jass language and be done with it. Not only will it create less junk in your map MPQ and save filesize, but it will also execute faster.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
Vexorian himself wrote the sentence I quoted.
There is a reason why struct extends array exists.
There is a reason why delegate exists.
vJASS compiles to JASS involving triggers and evaluate which is super slow.

Proper and efficient vJASS will just add some globals. No speed loss.
The only bad side is the long global variables which can obviously be reduced with Vexorian optimizer. So no more problem.
 
The inheritance suggestion is a good idea, and I'd definitely support that decision when designing a map. With public spells, it becomes a bit difficult to judge. Should there be a standard spell parent delegate? One for channeling, one for DoT's, etc.? Or would we end up with spells with each their own parent (sort of defeating the purpose)?

I agree that deciding not to include inheritance for efficiency reasons is not a good reason. A better reason would be that it has a big learning curve, or that it isn't the focus of the tutorial. This is just one way to implement a spell, and as with most tutorials, they are just there to get you started and build your intuition. I think this tutorial does a decent job on honing in on the indexing part, which is the main lesson. If this was a "spells in vJASS" tutorial, I'd say that it could use expanding.

I agree with your notes on inheritance and that the general view of it is unnecessarily negative, but at least a lot of that 'old' stigma is washing away. Fewer people use "extends array", and the only reason interfaces/extends isn't being used is because people probably don't know how to use it. OO is one of those things that really don't get used properly by beginners unless it is shoved down your throat. ;D But if we shoved it down people's throat, then people would probably be too afraid to even try vJASS (I mean, that is pretty much how it was when the standards were far more strict). That's the drawback of enforcing style-guides besides something basic like JPAG. Perhaps we have become too lax?

edo said:
I dont really like that tutorial, it doesnt go indepth into the features, he just says, like in onDestroy, to send you there if someone say to use it, thats not really how good tutorial should work.

He adds a tiny bit of reasoning. But I agree, it is not the full length of discussion that it could've been. Honestly, the manual is the best resource for the most of the vJASS features (although even that could be expanded). But his tutorial is concise and to the point (as are most of the "for dummies" books). That isn't a bad thing. I'm a fan of bloated college textbooks as much as the next guy, but sometimes it helps to have an overview of syntax and features before you learn about the inner workings of a language.
 
I agree with your notes on inheritance and that the general view of it is unnecessarily negative, but at least a lot of that 'old' stigma is washing away. Fewer people use "extends array", and the only reason interfaces/extends isn't being used is because people probably don't know how to use it.
And this is exactly my problem. Who are those people going to learn from? There are basicly 2 crowds in these forums; the vJass elitists and the GUIers.

But sometimes, the sky opens and a GUIer breaks out from his prison and actually learns Jass.
I still remember seeing horrible GUI mess in the Trigger Help section from some of the guys that now browse the JASS section on a regular basis and submit resources.
The problem is, that every once in a while when a GUIer wants to learn JASS, they are mostly learning it from the elitists. And elitists aren't good teachers per definition, as they know all the bugs and tricks and workarounds that you just shouldn't teach a beginner.
Struct extends array was just the tip of the iceberg. I can't even say how glad I am that this abomination has almost vanished, now that the "big guys" like Nestharus and Magtheridon rarely submit new resources anymore.

What I'm saying is: we - as the guys that browse the JASS section on a regular basis - have a responsibility. With every thread we answer in the Trigger Help section, we should keep that responsibility in mind: we are basicly the "teacher" for those seeking for help.

And when you study programming in college or university, the first thing you learn is that maintainable, readable code trumphs efficiency almost any time. If you can't measure a speed improvement in miliseconds, it's not about efficiency anymore; it's about your ego.

Efficiency matters in databases or root systems. Efficiency matters for automated systems. Efficiency matters for embedded software, sorting or archiving algorithms. Efficiency matters in graphics and pathfinding.

Also, it's always funny to see elitists complain about the lack of speed quirks in spell submissions. Because it's a spell. Most likely, this spell will have a dummy unit and even move it around. Most likely, this spell will interact with multiple other units or even enumerate units when it is an AoE spell. Most likely, this spell will deal damage to another unit.

Do you know what UnitDamageTarget, SetUnitX/Y, GroupEnumUnitsInRange have in common?
that they create overhead the size of Russia.
A trigger evaluation more or less is peanuts compared to that.

Efficiency in spells is never about script runtime. It's about avoiding bugs and low maintenance.

OO is one of those things that really don't get used properly by beginners unless it is shoved down your throat. ;D But if we shoved it down people's throat, then people would probably be too afraid to even try vJASS (I mean, that is pretty much how it was when the standards were far more strict). That's the drawback of enforcing style-guides besides something basic like JPAG. Perhaps we have become too lax?
I don't think that OOP is hard to learn or that stuff like inheritance are too advanced for any beginner to grasp. They are not; in fact, inheritance is a pretty logical and intuitive step for every programming beginner that understood the basic concept of structs.

Struct extends array is not.


We should teach beginners how to use OOP in the way it was intended to be used. Vexorian might have added some quirks here and there that not many people like; but that shouldn't keep us from using them as 'positive rolemodels'.

After all, people will eventually move away from JASS somewhere in the future. They might land in a Unity project or a university project. And they will eventually draw from the experience gathered in JASS, especially when they learned OOP programming via JASS.
Bad habits are hard to unlearn. That's why we should shove all the JASS specific things out of the window (as long as they can be avoided) and teach "good practice" styles.
 
I just want to disagree about this.
Disagree or not; it doesn't matter, because you can actually try that out:
Evaluate 10000 triggers per second or use one of the other functions I mentioned 10000 times per second. Then tell me what will make your FPS drop harder.
 
Dude do you think before saying this?
The fact that you evaluate trigger for nothing is far more slower that just plainly call the functions.
Seriously this discussion is so pointless..
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/lab-715/jass-benchmarking-results-245362/
Of course trigger evaluation is slower than a simple function call (about 10 times slower, we know that).

That wasn't the point.

But a Trigger evaluation is faster than moving units, dealing damage or whatever gameplay effect you want to have for your spell.

Therefore, it doesn't really matter if you use a trigger evaluation more or less, unless your spell is used a thousand times and doesn't have any impact on gameplay. In comparison to any gameplay affecting function, a trigger evaluation is nothing.


I usually compare it like this:
When you pull a caravan with your car, one person more sitting on the backseat won't make a difference.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
JASS:
scope Stopwatch initializer onInit

    native UnitAlive takes unit id returns boolean
    
    globals
        trigger tr
        integer arg
        unit u
    endglobals
    
    private function Actions takes nothing returns boolean
        local integer sw
        local integer i  = 0
        local integer array ticks
        local unit u =  CreateUnit(Player(0), 'hfoo', 0, 0, 0)
        
        set sw = StopWatchCreate()
        loop
            exitwhen i == 1000
            //TEST 1
            call TriggerEvaluate(tr)
            set i = i + 1
        endloop
        set ticks[0] = StopWatchTicks(sw)
        
        call BJDebugMsg("1000 iterations of TriggerEvaluate took " + I2S(StopWatchMark(sw)) + " milliseconds to finish.")
        call StopWatchDestroy(sw)
        
        set sw = StopWatchCreate()
        set i  = 0
        
        loop
            exitwhen i == 1000
            // TEST 2
            call SetUnitX(u, 0)
            call SetUnitY(u, 0)
            set i = i + 1
        endloop
        set ticks[1] = StopWatchTicks(sw)
        
        call BJDebugMsg("1000 iterations of SetUnitX/Y took " + I2S(StopWatchMark(sw)) + " milliseconds to finish.")
        call StopWatchDestroy(sw)
        
        if (ticks[0] > ticks[1]) then
            call BJDebugMsg("SetUnitX/Y is faster than TriggerEvaluate")
        else
            call BJDebugMsg("TriggerEvaluate is faster than SetUnitX/Y")
        endif
        return false
    endfunction

    private function A takes nothing returns boolean
        local integer this = arg
        return true
    endfunction
    //===========================================================================
    private function onInit takes nothing returns nothing
        local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerRegisterPlayerEvent(t, Player(0), EVENT_PLAYER_END_CINEMATIC)
        call TriggerAddCondition(t, function Actions)
        set tr = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerAddCondition(tr, Condition(function A))
        set u = CreateUnit(Player(0), 'hpea', 0, 0, 0)
        set  t = null
    endfunction

endscope

Attached the result.
SetUnitX AND SetUnitY takes less time than trigger evaluate.

The content of the trigger condition is the same as an empty onDestroy methods (directly taken from the war3map.j).
 

Attachments

  • Proof.png
    Proof.png
    59.5 KB · Views: 157
JASS:
scope Stopwatch initializer onInit

    native UnitAlive takes unit id returns boolean
    
    globals
        trigger tr
        integer arg
        unit u
    endglobals
    
    private function Actions takes nothing returns boolean
        local integer sw
        local integer i  = 0
        local integer array ticks
        local unit u =  CreateUnit(Player(0), 'hfoo', 0, 0, 0)
        
        set sw = StopWatchCreate()
        loop
            exitwhen i == 1000
            //TEST 1
            call TriggerEvaluate(tr)
            set i = i + 1
        endloop
        set ticks[0] = StopWatchTicks(sw)
        
        call BJDebugMsg("1000 iterations of TriggerEvaluate took " + I2S(StopWatchMark(sw)) + " milliseconds to finish.")
        call StopWatchDestroy(sw)
        
        set sw = StopWatchCreate()
        set i  = 0
        
        loop
            exitwhen i == 1000
            // TEST 2
            call SetUnitX(u, 0)
            call SetUnitY(u, 0)
            set i = i + 1
        endloop
        set ticks[1] = StopWatchTicks(sw)
        
        call BJDebugMsg("1000 iterations of SetUnitX/Y took " + I2S(StopWatchMark(sw)) + " milliseconds to finish.")
        call StopWatchDestroy(sw)
        
        if (ticks[0] > ticks[1]) then
            call BJDebugMsg("SetUnitX/Y is faster than TriggerEvaluate")
        else
            call BJDebugMsg("TriggerEvaluate is faster than SetUnitX/Y")
        endif
        return false
    endfunction

    private function A takes nothing returns boolean
        local integer this = arg
        return true
    endfunction
    //===========================================================================
    private function onInit takes nothing returns nothing
        local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerRegisterPlayerEvent(t, Player(0), EVENT_PLAYER_END_CINEMATIC)
        call TriggerAddCondition(t, function Actions)
        set tr = CreateTrigger()
        call TriggerAddCondition(tr, Condition(function A))
        set u = CreateUnit(Player(0), 'hpea', 0, 0, 0)
        set  t = null
    endfunction

endscope

Attached the result.
SetUnitX AND SetUnitY takes less time than trigger evaluate.

The content of the trigger condition is the same as an empty onDestroy methods (directly taken from the war3map.j).
Now try the same with some "Enter Region" events in place and several other units on the map for the sake of context.

Also, SetUnitX/Y isn't even that much faster from your test. Use SetUnitX() 5 times and the TriggerEvaluation breaks even. Now try the other functions for comparison, like UnitDamageTarget(). But make sure to have a damage detection system in place for realism.
 
You're kind of destroying the purpose of this tutorial with debating about efficiency so hard.
Yeah, sorry, blowing this way out of proportion.


I agree that it's a matter of taste. I brought my criticism; he doesn't want to accept it - which is fine, I guess. Nothing more to say here, really.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
IcemanBo said:
You're kind of destroying the purpose of this tutorial with debating about efficiency so hard.
Malhorne said:
Seriously this discussion is so pointless..


Zwiebelchen said:
Now try the same with some "Enter Region" events in place and several other units on the map for the sake of context.
What's the matter with Enter Region? There is no event in this map..

Zwiebelchen said:
Do you know what UnitDamageTarget, SetUnitX/Y, GroupEnumUnitsInRange have in common?
that they create overhead the size of Russia.
A trigger evaluation more or less is peanuts compared to that.
Zwiebelchen said:
Disagree or not; it doesn't matter, because you can actually try that out:
Evaluate 10000 triggers per second or use one of the other functions I mentioned 10000 times per second. Then tell me what will make your FPS drop harder.
Zwiebelchen said:
Also, SetUnitX/Y isn't even that much faster from your test. Use SetUnitX() 5 times and the TriggerEvaluation breaks even. Now try the other functions for comparison, like UnitDamageTarget(). But make sure to have a damage detection system in place for realism.
They are equal with 5 times. And pay attention about the fact that the trigger that I evaluate is nearly empty !

I think this quote collection is enough.


Now thanks for the interlude and could we stop.
 
What's the matter with Enter Region? There is no event in this map..
I'll just answer this, just because I still think you didn't get my point:
I'm saying you are putting the comparison out of context. Which is important here, because the overhead of these functions depends on the number of enter-events and units on the map.

SetUnitX/Y get more taxing the more events you have registered. So the benchmark result is not representative for the lack of a test environment that reflects an actual use-case scenario.
 
Level 18
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,413
So let's continue the boring off topic stuff in my VM where you have your opinion, I have one. And since the beginning I answered to every argument with proof you showed nothing.
So sorry to sound a little aggressive or bored.
Everywhere there should be someone that want to jump at your throat and bite you for nothing..
 
So let's continue the boring off topic stuff in my VM where you have your opinion, I have one. And since the beginning I answered to every argument with proof you showed nothing.
So sorry to sound a little aggressive or bored.
Everywhere there should be someone that want to jump at your throat and bite you for nothing..
Seriously, excuse me for expressing my oppinion on a tutorial made for public use in a public forum.

I don't know when exactly this discussion turned into aggression, because I found it to be pretty interesting and non-offensive. But that's just me. Maybe it's because I don't find discussions about technical things offensive in general.

If you feel offended; yeah, I agree, then there is no point in going further.
 
Top