Useful/Simple Rediscussion

[Shido]

Unpopular Opinion: I like Substandard

. It's right in the word itself, it is not reaching required standard that the site demand. I can understand the misleading here but currently U/S is no better than its predecessor.

Right now, The Useful/Simple is not defined enough to be it own rating because it is currently clumped between different kinds of quality which depending on users and not staffs prespective. There is a mountain of differences between this stuff is not horrible but not enough and this stuff is geniuely horrible at attempting let alone doing it.

This is excluding out Lacking rating because it is their own kinds of bad, it's evil.

Hive is currently missing minimum standard for U/S rating, you need this one covered in Submission Rules. This is minimal requirement just to get this resource in Hive, anything talk about approval for certain rating is up to you, even the submission rules never mention what happened if your resource touch the bad parts related to the Site Rules. After the rating update, you might as well update submission rules as they are quite outdated.

Should you ever split the U/S rating? Depending on how you decide to updating it. I say they should still exist and not leave it tick default because that is the whole point of Recommended+.

Spoiler: Possible Suggestion But this Post is mainly talking about Rating

I say there is another way for you to have a place for your simplicity: "What if we give everybody an ability to auto-move their resources to U/S"?

A simple tick saving up the problem that you are freely ignoring what standard they demand and they can't simply ask you to do better. You are your own self, you want to impress or help anyone then being you is good enough. Of course you still have the base minimum standard in the back too.

If they have confident, they can untick themself and put their resource back to pending (with obvious time gate system to prevent tick-unticking).
That tickbox is disabled if moderator directly rated it.

Edit: Can We even bring the scale back? lol.

 

[Kyrbi0]

While I heartily disagree with "Substandard", I am with you that "Useful/Simple" isn't perfect & have in the past suggested changing it to simply "Accepted" or even "Approved", since that accurately describes "meeting the bare minimum requirements for acceptance into the Resource section", and does so without any value judgement (unlike "Substandard" or "Useful/Simple").

One of the issues at the heart of this, though, is twofold:
A) how the "bare minimum requirements" are presented
B) how those requirements are actually utilized "in the field".

I have reason to believe both of those could stand to be looked at. I'm trying to find the time to do so.

 

[Deolrin]

I think the rules need to be updated to account for the possibility that your submission will be approved, but rated as "Useful/Simple".

 

[Shido]

Not that I feel like we need raising standard for resources in an art side but rather on technical side.
One simply cannot just dump in multiple resources without put in at least a small amount efforts that somewhat uniquely compete many existed one.
Do you like watching 100+ kinds of Fel Peon Icons with slight hint of hue change of eyes? Unless they are in a bundle, good luck moving them out.

 

[Kyrbi0]

One simply cannot just dump in multiple resources without put in at least a small amount efforts that somewhat uniquely compete many existed one.
Do you like watching 100+ kinds of Fel Peon Icons with slight hint of hue change of eyes? Unless they are in a bundle, good luck moving them out.

There's only two problems, as far as I understand it, with "dumping multiple resources at once":
- the burden on the server (storage space)
- the burden on our hard-working Reviewers/Mods.
If we assume that people are uploading resources that are useful, it makes sense to want them on the site. The only question is "where/how".

I don't know anything about the first issue, but I am told it's not a big concern. For the second, I definitely want to be mindful of the challenges they face, and the already-overwhelming workload. I'm open to solutions; one that I've suggested is to utilize a sort of separate, non-moderated part of the site (either a sub-forum of the Resource section or simply a Stickied Thread), which could be set apart to contain some of the more low-level submissions (mass packs of recolored SFX, reskinned models, etc).

We already do this, in fact; the Hive Simple Edit Resources Thread has been running for over 8 years, full-to-the-brim of useful-but-(too)-simple resources, and all without Reviewers/Mods needing to take the time to go through them.

 

[ThompZon]

We already do this, in fact; the Hive Simple Edit Resources Thread has been running for over 8 years, full-to-the-brim of useful-but-(too)-simple resources, and all without Reviewers/Mods needing to take the time to go through them.

This thread is hard to find for those who don't know of its existence and the assets within is jumbled together with various comments, making it hard to get an overview of anything within.
Meanwhile, the new grid-system is great for getting an overview of things, but requires them to get uploaded to the proper section.
IMO it'd be a good idea for the uploader to be able to tag a resource as "simple" or something.

 

[Footman16]

From my perspective we want to avoid becoming the EpicWar of resources imo. Blizzards own models had flaws and even the simplest of edits should be on a technical level fully functional and optimised. For example deleting unused tracks, reducing file size as far as reasonably possible. The Sanity checker is a powerful tool for checking the former.

 

[Kyrbi0]

This thread is hard to find for those who don't know of its existence and the assets within is jumbled together with various comments, making it hard to get an overview of anything within.
Meanwhile, the new grid-system is great for getting an overview of things, but requires them to get uploaded to the proper section.
IMO it'd be a good idea for the uploader to be able to tag a resource as "simple" or something.

I agree; it wouldn't be as helpful in it's current state. It could really use a guiding hand to organize it. I've wanted to do so for some time, but it's a monumental task.

Would a self-tagged Resource not need to be Reviewed?

From my perspective we want to avoid becoming the EpicWar of resources imo. Blizzards own models had flaws and even the simplest of edits should be on a technical level fully functional and optimised. For example deleting unused tracks, reducing file size as far as reasonably possible. The Sanity checker is a powerful tool for checking the former.

I'm not sure I agree, but your sentiment is shared by others in the Staff, to be sure.

It is interesting that, in some cases, our Guidelines are such that even a classic Blizzard model wouldn't get approved nowadays. I'm not sure that makes sense to me.

I think the only major problem with "becoming the EpicWar of resources" is that our Reviewers/Mods would have a lot more to look at. So we either have to A) make Reviewing less burdensome somehow, or B) reduce the number of resources that have to be Reviewed (somehow).

 

[deepstrasz]

It is interesting that, in some cases, our Guidelines are such that even a classic Blizzard model wouldn't get approved nowadays. I'm not sure that makes sense to me.

What do you understand by a classic Blizzard model, and especially one that would not get approved?

I think the only major problem with "becoming the EpicWar of resources" is that our Reviewers/Mods would have a lot more to look at.

Not only that but the fact of wasting time to "look at" stuff that has been probably submitted already for possibly countless times in various shapes or forms.

 

[Kyrbi0]

What do you understand by a classic Blizzard model, and especially one that would not get approved?

I was responding to Footman16's comment (which I've seen echoed elsewhere), that "Blizzards own models had flaws...". Whatever he was referring to when he said that. I don't have any particular models in mind; I don't know them well enough. But I have been around long enough to hear people echo that sentiment, that many of the OG Blizzard models (so, models contained in the original MPQs) wouldn't pass the Sanity Checker of the modern era.

Not only that but the fact of wasting time to "look at" stuff that has been probably submitted already for possibly countless times in various shapes or forms.

I don't see your point. That's true no matter what. It just accelerates the issue (which is already what I pointed out).

 

[deepstrasz]

I don't see your point. That's true no matter what. It just accelerates the issue (which is already what I pointed out).

Just wanted to make it clear that there isn't just one global thing, there are at least two negative sides, the number of resources uploaded and the quality, the latter referring to what I wrote earlier. Sorry if I misunderstood the wording of your raised concern.

I was responding to Footman16's comment (which I've seen echoed elsewhere), that "Blizzards own models had flaws...". Whatever he was referring to when he said that. I don't have any particular models in mind; I don't know them well enough. But I have been around long enough to hear people echo that sentiment, that many of the OG Blizzard models (so, models contained in the original MPQs) wouldn't pass the Sanity Checker of the modern era.

I see that happening a lot with the Reforged ones. There's even a separate section for that.
It really doesn't matter if the original ones have a flaw or two, it's not like we're reuploading those for some insane reason. Hence, why I asked what you meant by a model that would not be approved, since you mentioned that in the context of content uploading on the site.

I think the idea of Sanity Checker and its extensive use in the reviewing process has made resources less to not buggy at all and has made them take less space (this one is arguable if necessary considering 2023; however General Frank could definitely tell you if size itself or as a result of Sanity Checker optimization helps in making the game render the models better and work without, say lag if they are many on the screen).

 

[Shido]

Bumping the thread once again due to default setting in resource page now also include U/S rating as well.

If U/S prove that Hive is lowering the standard, the Recommendation need more benefit to make up for the lost value. If you are going for quantity, you still get benefit for being productive at something you can provide. However, if you are a quality person, you should get better or as equal as one targeting quantity. Let's face it, U/S rating has won the war of getting attention as equal as other rating.

How should we adjust for Recommended rating? I let you figuring out how should we reward them.

I have something to get off my chest here: "Have Dragon Rank disqualified U/S Rating and Ported resources." Remember Ranks were supposed to be the one reward Hive members dedication to the site with their hard works and thoughts. Ported should get their own Bandit Rank (which also cannot be U/S because how, duh?), U/S still need to exclude from the Dragon Rank Requirement.

For now, Ralle better start writing a new resource section rule.

 

[deepstrasz]

Ported should get their own Bandit Rank (which also cannot be U/S because how, duh?)

That's indeed tricky. Where does one draw the line of what's Ported and Useful and/or Ported and Lacking?