Time to Start from The Beginning?

[The_Silent]

Time to Start from The Beginning?

Well, once we talked about creating a bigger map, with more terrain, more rpg style gameplay, and other stuff like that. Well i came to think of it and thought it might be a good idea... Then I could add a realistic physics engine, spells for all classes, create a semi custom attack system (You hit chance is equal to your agillity or somthing :/). All in all making the map look and feel more like Diablo III. The I could pass it on to another of the Diablo III warcraft makers, so they could add their part and so on.

This would add features like destroyable doodads sending shards of wood, metal, rock into every direction. Eventually hitting enemy or freindly units... A realistic gravity effect to all knockback and jump effect, plus you might be able to push enemis of cliffs and stuff like that. Better, more realistic spells, like Disintegrate and the new spells for the monk. And so on.

All this will offcause gonna take a lot of time, but will greatly improve the fealing of the map. Beside is probably gonna be made along with some of the updates to the map, so people still can enjoy the news to the old map.


What do you think, is this a good idea?
All my Diablo III Warcraft companions should add their imput to this suggestion.

~The_Silent

 

[CloudMax]

Time to Start from The Beginning?

Well, once we talked about creating a bigger map, with more terrain, more rpg style gameplay, and other stuff like that. Well i came to think of it and thought it might be a good idea... Then I could add a realistic physics engine, spells for all classes, create a semi custom attack system (You hit chance is equal to your agillity or somthing :/). All in all making the map look and feel more like Diablo III. The I could pass it on to another of the Diablo III warcraft makers, so they could add their part and so on.

This would add features like destroyable doodads sending shards of wood, metal, rock into every direction. Eventually hitting enemy or freindly units... A realistic gravity effect to all knockback and jump effect, plus you might be able to push enemis of cliffs and stuff like that. Better, more realistic spells, like Disintegrate and the new spells for the monk. And so on.

All this will offcause gonna take a lot of time, but will greatly improve the fealing of the map. Beside is probably gonna be made along with some of the updates to the map, so people still can enjoy the news to the old map.


What do you think, is this a good idea?
All my Diablo III Warcraft companions should add their imput to this suggestion.

~The_Silent

I love the idea
I have wanted to create a second map for a long time where we start over and improve the diablo feel in the map etc.

 

[Eleandor]

You know what would be awesome?

- Random dungeons
- Random items

The bottom line is: blizzard can make awesome environments in diablo 3 randomly. So it's possible, right?

Implementing random items would even be pretty easy:
You randomly roll an integer. This integer is used as the item id of the random item that drops. Save/load system just stores this id, avoiding your code to become really long.
To retrieve the stats of the item, you set the random seed equal to the item id. From there you generate the stats. Since you set the random seed, each time you want to retrieve the stats of the item you get the same results.

 

[CloudMax]

You know what would be awesome?

- Random dungeons
- Random items

The bottom line is: blizzard can make awesome environments in diablo 3 randomly. So it's possible, right?

Implementing random items would even be pretty easy:
You randomly roll an integer. This integer is used as the item id of the random item that drops. Save/load system just stores this id, avoiding your code to become really long.
To retrieve the stats of the item, you set the random seed equal to the item id. From there you generate the stats. Since you set the random seed, each time you want to retrieve the stats of the item you get the same results.

Custom dungeons, its possible. Kind of... You cant modify cliff levels with triggers so we cant make good looking walls.
BUT, lets say we make a big dungeon, suddendly, its two ways to go, and by trigger we can make one of them closed, or a wall that have broken down that blocks the path, by doing it like that, it will be possible to make it so that you go to different paths all the time, but the terrain always look the same.

Random items, also possible, but we will need to recode the item system, but i guess we will redo the inventory system anyway if we redo the entire map from scratch. That way we can make it more stable and much better. xD
And we know how to use triggers, you dont have to explain xD

 

[Xezko]

/me approves.

 

[The_Silent]

Well, first of all i would need to know what size the map should be
(Probably 256x256)

About the ranodmizing terrain: Its possible, but requires quite the coding... and the time... We're gonna need discuss that some more i think, so far.

 

[syltman]

This would be awesome, interactive doodads sounds incredible cool.

 

[CloudMax]

Guys i have BIG news.
I talked with CloudWolf yesterday, yes, he is back now.
Be spended the last night catching up on everything on the forums, but it seems like he did not have time to respond so i will do it for him.
Im the teams forumer after all Im suppost to respond to people and tell them whats going on =D

Cloudwolf accepted this idea and agrees. He think this is an awesome opertunity to improve the map and make all the maps bad parts into something good insted. So we now have permision from the Project Leader. This could be a big step for our project to make it as popular as it was the first few months.
Hopefully i can get him to reply personally but for now, enjoy

 

[Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo]

Well while that all sounds kinda great it also seems to take the mapping process in a completely new direction.
If have no clue how well The_Silent can code and whether there are some other guys that are great in doing so as well... but it will take quite a lot time if you want all that systems. Nonetheless it should all be doable in some month.
About the random terrain coding though... I doubt that would work. And by work I mean it will 'increase' the gameplay experience and not just add some randomness in exchange for plain terrain. And doing this is restricted by the Wc3 Engine a lot I think? Since creating doodads is not possible. And who knows how it'll do if you use units instead.

However I agree that the currently map is really lacking the cool spells and even more important the fast paced gameplay. These 2 elements where the basics for my own D3 map (which I still work on from time to time xd).

 

[CloudMax]

Well while that all sounds kinda great it also seems to take the mapping process in a completely new direction.
If have no clue how well The_Silent can code and whether there are some other guys that are great in doing so as well... but it will take quite a lot time if you want all that systems. Nonetheless it should all be doable in some month.
About the random terrain coding though... I doubt that would work. And by work I mean it will 'increase' the gameplay experience and not just add some randomness in exchange for plain terrain. And doing this is restricted by the Wc3 Engine a lot I think? Since creating doodads is not possible. And who knows how it'll do if you use units instead.

However I agree that the currently map is really lacking the cool spells and even more important the fast paced gameplay. These 2 elements where the basics for my own D3 map (which I still work on from time to time xd).

It took about 8 months to make the current map into what it is, so we know that it will take time, and we are ready to put that much time into it (i hope).
Thats not our problem, the problem will be how much people will tell us "isnt it done soon" and super-sheeps spam about how long they have waited...

And for the "randomness" system, we already have a plan of how we will do it, and we said that we know pretty much how we will do it already. It is not that hard actually, if you cant use doodads, use destructibles.

And i do not think that the spells is our problem at the moment, since i think that the_silent have remade most of them already? am i wrong?
And yes, the fast paced gameplay style is something that is hard to mix togheter with warcraft 3 and Balance.

 

[redmarine]

I approve this idea but from now on you'll have to request help from me as I'm no longer really able to work full time.

Just message me if you guys need any help for specific features.

 

[Raggnarokh]

Great news that the map is going to be remade! =) I'm a little confused though, I remember reading that ( it's still Beta ) when the D3W goes out of Beta, the project will consist of a several maps and stuff. Did you mean that there'll be a couple of maps available to be played one after the other ( or they won't be really connected with heroes ( lvls and items ) ) or you meant "new maps" like this? Since the map's definitely going to be different but..

 

[CloudMax]

Now when we will make it more like an RPG, there might be a chance that we will have a save/load system, becouse that way we can extend it like we couldent have done it before when it was just "follow the road".

 

[The_Silent]

To start this i'll need some questions answered (Probably by LTGH or Cloudwolf)

1: Should the map size be.
2: What tileset should i create the map in (Mostly a question for cloudwolf since he is the terraineer)

 

[CloudMax]

I will ask CloudWolf when he gets on MSN if he doesnt respond on the thread.

 

[Raggnarokh]

Now when we will make it more like an RPG, there might be a chance that we will have a save/load system, becouse that way we can extend it like we couldent have done it before when it was just "follow the road".

Right, thanks a lot for the response!

 

[NisNamanArhat]

I have an opinion. Why you don't make six heroes with two for each primary stat? For example one strength would have higher agility and the other would have higher intelligence.

 

[CloudMax]

I have an opinion. Why you don't make six heroes with two for each primary stat? For example one strength would have higher agility and the other would have higher intelligence.

Thats not possible since blizzard have only revealed 4 heros so far.
And that is 2 range, 2 melee. And that sounds fair enough to me.

 

[NisNamanArhat]

All right then. But I do think 256x256 is a good idea.

 

[CloudMax]

I think as big as possible is a good idea.
That way we can make more content.. right?
And if i dont remember wrong, it is possible to increase the size over the standard world editor's limit, i might be wrong, but i think its possible.

 

[NisNamanArhat]

I actually tried to increase the map size over the limit but I wasn't able to. But yes more content is better.

 

[The_Silent]

I think as big as possible is a good idea.
That way we can make more content.. right?
And if i dont remember wrong, it is possible to increase the size over the standard world editor's limit, i might be wrong, but i think its possible.

Map size increase file size, obviosly. And creating a too big map size cause lagging when creating the map. So i say, lets keep it a 256x256.

 

[CloudMax]

Map size increase file size, obviosly. And creating a too big map size cause lagging when creating the map. So i say, lets keep it a 256x256.

i want a big map more then a lagless world editor x)
But if im not wrong, you can increase the size of the map after its created?..
thats how we did for the current d3w map. So we can just increase the size when we need more space

 

[NisNamanArhat]

This has been done before, but instead of a base town to go back to anytime, how about you put in shops throughout the map that players can go to as they progress through the game?

 

[CloudMax]

This has been done before, but instead of a base town to go back to anytime, how about you put in shops throughout the map that players can go to as they progress through the game?

We will keep the idea of having one main town.
It will be like, one map is like an act.
So if we make two maps, the second one will probably be "act 2" of the project.
And i want to try to avoid of having vendors with weapons / armors, becouse that always end up with everyone having the same gear.
So insted i was thinking of having a few (not that good) items in a few vendors in the map and then have a random chance that a specefic gets a random item (that only sells one time then the vendor wont sell it anymore) and then maybe 30min later, it comes new item, that way there might be a few good items, but it might be a little rare and drops will always be best.
And we will have way points like d2, and i think we will not have town portals, since they said that d3 probably wont have them since they dont want it to have town portals.

 

[blee3522]

this sounds like a really big project

 

[CloudMax]

this sounds like a really big project

Yes it is. We have already spended 9 months (cloudwolf have spended even more time) on this project. And im gonna keep working on this until starcraft 2 is out, then we will hopefully make a sc2 map insted

 

[NisNamanArhat]

We will keep the idea of having one main town.
It will be like, one map is like an act.
So if we make two maps, the second one will probably be "act 2" of the project.
And i want to try to avoid of having vendors with weapons / armors, becouse that always end up with everyone having the same gear.
So insted i was thinking of having a few (not that good) items in a few vendors in the map and then have a random chance that a specefic gets a random item (that only sells one time then the vendor wont sell it anymore) and then maybe 30min later, it comes new item, that way there might be a few good items, but it might be a little rare and drops will always be best.
And we will have way points like d2, and i think we will not have town portals, since they said that d3 probably wont have them since they dont want it to have town portals.

Oh I see. What will be the tileset be? Is it going to be based on Black Citadel or Icecrown Glacier like in your map?

 

[AKAIMAX]

Cool idea but, how are you gonna make units fall off cliffs? Ud need destructibles on every possible cliff.

 

[CloudMax]

Cool idea but, how are you gonna make units fall off cliffs? Ud need destructibles on every possible cliff.

Uhmm.. no we do not need to have that. We will need to block players from going down and such, but there is many tricks that can make it possible for units to fall down when they die. If we have a pushback for example that makes it possible for units to be pushed away, it shouldent be that hard to make them be able to fall down during the pushback.

 

[HappyCockroach]

About randomed dungeons, it is pretty possible. Actually it will contribute for the game to look good.
There can be 3 or 4 models as cliff variations. Then the models are placing accordingly to the script. These models can be of excellent quality, 10 times better than WC3's. The only problem would be that it would look too monotone and boring, possibly.

If anything, I can make some models you guys might need...

 

[The_Silent]

We will keep the idea of having one main town.
It will be like, one map is like an act.
So if we make two maps, the second one will probably be "act 2" of the project.
And i want to try to avoid of having vendors with weapons / armors, becouse that always end up with everyone having the same gear.
So insted i was thinking of having a few (not that good) items in a few vendors in the map and then have a random chance that a specefic gets a random item (that only sells one time then the vendor wont sell it anymore) and then maybe 30min later, it comes new item, that way there might be a few good items, but it might be a little rare and drops will always be best.
And we will have way points like d2, and i think we will not have town portals, since they said that d3 probably wont have them since they dont want it to have town portals.

Its VERY easy to make shops with randomized items, lets do that. So you can buy items, but seldom the same and so strong.

 

[CloudMax]

About randomed dungeons, it is pretty possible. Actually it will contribute for the game to look good.
There can be 3 or 4 models as cliff variations. Then the models are placing accordingly to the script. These models can be of excellent quality, 10 times better than WC3's. The only problem would be that it would look too monotone and boring, possibly.

If anything, I can make some models you guys might need...

Yes that is possible, but that will change the entire way our terrain is made if we have custom cliffs and a random system that makes the cliffs appear etc.
It is cloudwolf that choose if he wants it to be like that or not

 

[Sheephunter]

two Questions...
Will the new monk class be added in the 1.19?
And Are ya gonna make the new desser in to the new map, ( The rpg map )

 

[CloudMax]

two Questions...
Will the new monk class be added in the 1.19?
And Are ya gonna make the new desser in to the new map, ( The rpg map )

I am not sure if he will be in 1.19, but you can expect to see him in 1.20 i guess. The reason for this is that we need to make he spells for him, balance, we need the model, etc.

 

[Sheephunter]

I see, But he is soon ready, The model.

 

[CloudMax]

I see, But he is soon ready, The model.

Im active in the monk model thread so i know how the progress is going and i can tell you that it is not "soon ready" the animations is far from done

 

[syltman]

How do we even know Taylor is going to release them? I would guess that he would but we never know

 

[CloudMax]

He will release it
And you cant change that.
Becouse we are even talking about d3w in taylors thread, and he would have responded that he isnt going to release it if it is true. So your theory fails =)

 

[syltman]

He will release it
And you cant change that.
Becouse we are even talking about d3w in taylors thread, and he would have responded that he isnt going to release it if it is true. So your theory fails =)

How goodie!

 

[Yixx]

With JNGP you can increase the size to a maximum of 480x480. It indeed laggs world editor, but that breaks the 256x256 limit. And for anyone who hasnt got JNGP here, you Fail! x)

 

[HappyCockroach]

Taylor could sell his model to blizzard instead, to replace the current monk. lol
I hope he makes models to every character, because one GODLIKE²³ model and 3 good ones are against the map's consistency, and people would always choose the monk on the eyecandy. =P

 

[Linaze]

Only retards would pick the coolest looking class.

 

[CloudMax]

Only retards would pick the coolest looking class.

But what if you want to play the monk? your a retard becouse you want to play him and he happens to be the best looking one? xD

(btw, im not serious, i know that you mean that only retards would pick the class by the look of it)