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Some ideas

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Skar, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. Skar

    Skar

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    Hey guys, i have a few ideas to make the map look more like to the Diablo game, I have not read all the posts, so I hope nobody has posted them yet:

    What about make all the ranged attacks and most of the spells being avoidable? I mean, use dummies to simulate the arrows and stuff, I think its not hard to do an attack detection system. Making the projectiles avoidable will increase the gameplay and the fun. With this you can improve the Slow Time from the Sorceress and the Impenetrable Defense from the Monk.

    You could create a town, like the Rogue Encampment from Diablo 2 with markets, maybe some optional quests. Then every time you die, you reborn in this town like the real game, uses town portal, etc.
     
  2. CloudWolf

    CloudWolf

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    I like the first idea quite a lot :D Its easy enough to do :p We can just set the "Target Homing" option to all ranged units to false :) Great suggestion!

    As for the second idea, you have to remember this map is not an ORPG :p Making players travel back and forth from towns and dungeons is not something I want to do. It would seriously affect the gameplay :)

    D3W is meant to be a fast-paced action RPG :) Adding a town and quests would just destroy that feeling completely :D

    Sorry to be abrupt :)
     
  3. JoNy5

    JoNy5

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    The idea for a Town sounds great. You can add a Shop in the town to get rings,amulets,mana and stuff :)
     
  4. CloudWolf

    CloudWolf

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    Again, D3W is not an ORPG ;) I wan't the game to be fast paced and as action packed as possible.

    By adding shops and towns we would greatly increase the time between combat which really isn't something I want to do :p I want the game to move swiftly from one fight to the next without delay! :)

    Sorry for being such a troll xD This is a feature we have discussed before and decided not to have :)
     
  5. Skar

    Skar

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    Ok no towns. Not even a market? '-'

    But if you just turn of the "Target Homing" option you will not be able to control the projectiles and make them move slowly inside the Slow Time barrier or bounce in the Impenetrable Defense.
     
  6. CloudWolf

    CloudWolf

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    hmmm... you may have a point there :D Slowing missiles inside the time shield would be a neat feature to have :)

    Impenetrable Defence is also one of the skills we're thinking of revamping to be more advanced :) Bouncing missiles back would be awesome, but hard to implement xD I'm sure we'll think of something though :)

    I'll have to check out some of the custom missile systems in the spell section :D

    Thanks for the suggestion! :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2009
  7. Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

    Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

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    Uhm actually you can't make projectiles avoidable just by turning target homing off. The attack will hit no matter what. It's purpose is to have better looking projectiles for some units since it might look stupid if the projectile follows the enemies everywhere. For example the Gryphon Rider or Spellbreaker have it turned off, yet the attack will always hit. Ah and of course the target homing affects the duration for the air time of the projectiles.
    There's no real way to make all attacks avoidable with just the object editor except if you make every attack type to artillery. However that looks stupid since the attacks are targeted to the feet of the units and not the chest or so.

    Why I know that? I tried out everything briefly before I started on my Projectile system where everything is triggered.

    Edit: Oh seems like the target homing part was already posted^^
     
  8. Skar

    Skar

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    I am glad you like the idea. =)

    You could make the spells avoidable too, especially in the fight against the bosses. If you wanna some help with ideas for this kind of spells, just ask. :wink:
     
  9. CloudMax

    CloudMax

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    We should make use of invisible dummy units as range projectiles, and make them run slower if it gets inside the shield.
    Create a dummy unit on attacking unit (if its a range unit) etc.
    That wouldent be so hard to do actually. And there is already systems on hive that have this if we do not want to make it.
     
  10. redmarine

    redmarine

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    Also making such calculations can be quite tedious and resource demanding especially if there are more than 20-30 projectiles flying around at the same time.
     
  11. Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

    Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

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    This.
    It's indeed a huge question of performance (again xD). Though it looks cool I get some frame drops by 15+ projectiles or so at a time. However I still recommend it since avoidable projectiles is a must have I think.
     
  12. CloudMax

    CloudMax

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    I remember making my own system for making objects moving etc. across the screen, and i didnt get any performance problem at about 20 objects, i didnt try more then that though. And i also didnt have 10000000 doodads on the map ;-)
     
  13. Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

    Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

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    Well 20 objects are fine normally. But I got tons of other triggers running around as well, some with low period timers.
    Also there are some calculations necessary that you needn't do when just moving objects around. You need to check for units in range to detect whether the projectile hits and you need to check for ground height changes so you're flying line won't look ridiculous, thus also adjusting the fly height every time.
    And for my projectiles with an arc movement (e.g. for archers) I also need to calculate it's facing angle every period and accordingly change it's animation (for a special dummy unit).

    What's causing performance loss as well is the projectile model. If you use the red dragons fireball for example, 20 of them at a time decrease performance more than just normal arrows. Overall I recognized that the attached effects quite seem to play a role.

    Edit:
    Okay tested it again for my map. On a location where I get about 63-65 fps normally the frames drop to like 53fps when 30 archers are simultaneously shooting fire arrows. And I think that's an amount that will rarely occur during a playthrough. However, as I said I will have a lot more going on so even though it doesn't seem like a high performance loss all the systems etc. sum up to quite an annoying factor ^.^
    Edit2:
    I tested it again. This time removing the archer model (burning archer) and using a simple arrow model for the attack projectile. Frames only dropped by about 2-3.
    The script doesn't decrease performance that much at all. But for 30+ units that have their own model and projectile model it's quite a bit.
    However, at least the unit model is existence with or without triggered projectiles anyways and cannot be blamed ;p
    If you get a nice projectile system try it out, might be fine.
     
  14. redmarine

    redmarine

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    This.

    If you include the crazy terrain quality and how much demanding it is things will break. I can imagine the game become unplayable.
     
  15. Skar

    Skar

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    Performance may be a problem, but it worth the try. As far I noticed the monsters can't shoot a second projectile until the first one disappears and there is only a few points with massive amount of ranged enemies.
     
  16. RaiN.

    RaiN.

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    Performance wont be a problem, believe me...
     
  17. redmarine

    redmarine

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    Do you have any experience with flying projectiles(including moving the z axe)?
     
  18. CloudWolf

    CloudWolf

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    I guess its worth trying out just in case :) There aren't really all that many ranged units in-game anyway :)

    The only way we would ever have 20+ missiles at once is when a time-shield is active and missiles are slowed down :p

    It would be a nice feature so I'll do a little investigating and see if its realistic to have in the map :p
     
  19. Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

    Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo

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    He has as far as I know :p
    And yeah, if properly coded it shouldn't be an issue. I just realized it's rather the large amounts of models than the actual scrip that causes a frame drop when I was testing it with more units.
    I also wanna mention that I hate the fact that Wc3 doesn't scale well on newer Computers. It seems like a greater amount of units is always a bad thing in Wc3, engine-wise!
     
  20. redmarine

    redmarine

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    It's because the engine is old and simply isn't made to scale so many units. It's sad.

    But ofc, you can try it out CloudWolf. :p