The new Horde

[Amargaard]

Still, I think it's awesome to see Echo Isles as it was back in Rexxars journey again... :]

 

[VeljkoM]

Uh I meant patch numbers discussion.

 

[AIagremm]

I separate normal Warcraft lore and WOW lore as they are very different things and I only except some things from WoW in the mixed universe.

 

[VeljkoM]

I don't mix them. Wow and Warcraft are for me like Red Alert and Tiberuim are.

 

[Amargaard]

Well, WoW gave you the complete map of Azeroth and also created things that happened before Warcraft III in lore... Without using the WoW-map we would have made Azeroth completely different.

Also, I wonders why Tagar and Bovan Windtotem did not appear in WoW... :l

 

[VeljkoM]

Actually Am Azeroth map existed way before wow and things you mentioned I also ignore. Sorry but any disease from WoW I separate from the core games.

Who knows?

 

[AIagremm]

Am, WoW also shrinked Azeroth horribly. Many great sites werent put in WoW, many places and cities disappeared, WoW completely ignored much of WCIII's and other game's lore locations...

 

[VeljkoM]

WC 1 locations are forever gone and forgotten...

 

[AIagremm]

I know... D:
Where is the great Temple of the Damned? Ok, they left Rockard and Stonard, thats true... dude, actually from WCI only a few things were forgotten.

But from WCII and WCIII loads of lore locations and stuff was forgotten

 

[VeljkoM]

Grand Hamlet, Sunnyglade, Kyross, and Rockard...all forgotten. Also Wc1 has biggest retcon list.

 

[AIagremm]

Some of the three are actually cities that are present in WoW, plus they were destroyed, so there cant be many signs of them left.
Rockard is being retaken in Cataclysm, it was Dreadmaul Hold.
Well thats what you get when the campaign has two different endings and even without that they still retconned a lot of stuff.

 

[VeljkoM]

Still wish I played it.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah, me too >>
However it really differs from WCI and WCII.

 

[VeljkoM]

I think you want to edit your post...

Honestly WCII was real great. No real heroes just 200 population limit.

 

[AIagremm]

Yeah, it was awesome ^^
However I kinda disliked that tech was just too advanced in it, like submarines were just out of place. But I like goblin turtles ^^

I meant that it differed from WCII and WCIII. I mean, in it you had to build roads and you could build walls(which is cool), but you cannot build towers...

 

[VeljkoM]

Yea and Oil thing? Why would you need oil anyway for medieval ship?

Roads ah reminds me of knights and merchants...

 

[AIagremm]

Oh yeah, Oil is what bothered me the most! I mean come on, pumping oil from underwater!?

 

[VeljkoM]

But still what was oil for?

 

[AIagremm]

Oh you dont know? It was for taxes! Violet Citadel, Capital City, Blackrock Mountain and Black Temple are hard to heat up in winter, you know?

 

[VeljkoM]

So...why did they spent it on ships?

 

[AIagremm]

They didnt spend it on ships. Those were ship taxes. People payed them with oil!

 

[Amargaard]

I don't believe that... xD

 

[AIagremm]

Why?

 

[MogulKahn]

Me too -_-"

 

[AIagremm]

Yeap, you have no sence of logic, my explanation is clearly correct!

 

[VeljkoM]

Isn't theory that what sounds most ridicules is usually the truth?

 

[AIagremm]

Exactly!

 

[dexm]

I see but why cant they inventet some other resourse insted of oil like some cristals or something else it works even with animal crap so they can trigger some kindda mecanisam

 

[dragos98]

Guys at the first page or second a guy said something like:a tribe of troll(the tribe of zul'jin) was part of the horde, then pheonix said:the tribe of zul'jin was never in the horde;...They was in the Horde in clasic WoW you can see that on you tube in WoW clasic the trolls were green and were fat(like the trolls of Zul'aman) and with the part of belves and the tribe leaved the horde because of them I dont know but that can be true...no one know more about warcraft and\or wow like me...k im not good at english grammar but I know all about this game.

 

[dexm]

The way i see it thralls horde is superior than the fel horde and black-rock orcs why dosent thrall simply conquer them.

 

[w3.player]

In my opinion... Thrall is a peaceful one... he wants a better future for his own people, therefore engaging in a new war (even a short one for conquering the other orcs) would be useless... also he believes in free will.

 

[Levdragon]

Even though this group is dead.... Thrall would never do such a thing because A) It's WAY beyond his sphere of influence and couldn't possibly wage a war in those lands without antagonizing Stormwind and causing huge tensions, B) He can't. He cannot beat the Fel and Dark Horde because their powers are 10x greater then Thrall's. Demonic magics crushed any opposition and even beat the alliance of the second war, which was stronger then the current alliance (they beat them in battle that is, yet when the Horde disunited they were crushed with one swift stroke).

Also most people fail to realise orcs aren't nice, neither is Thrall. Somehow Orgrim and Thrall were romanticised similar to the way Medieval Knights have been. Orgrim was a nasty guy, he manipulated the Horde before he was even Chieftain, took advantage of an fooled Blackhand, assassinated Blackhand unfairly instead of in open battle, ordered the entire Shadow Council slaughtered losing a lot of cadre of warlocks essential to the Horde War machine, failed to hold the Horde together, caused a false peace with Lothar and had him assassinated and ambushed. Orgrim was one of the most fail leaders, and Thrall follows in his suit in a way, as Thrall fails to hold the Horde together, fails to even hold Grommash under his wing, gets replaced by Garrosh Hellscream in Cataclysm, and generally the Kalimdor Horde is very weakened, while the Blackrock Horde and Fel Hordes are stronger and growing.

 

[w3.player]

You may be right... this needs investigating.

 

[Soul of Blood]

Hi guys, Im a Lore lover and im new to this group.

Technically Thrall was holding the Horde together until Garrosh came along. Thrall had a peaceful way of leading the Horde, making allies unless they were hostile, he was even willing to ally with the Night Elves and the Humans at one time, he helped the Darkspear Tribe, Guided the Taurens through Centaurs and Harpies. Grommash was like a brother to him and with that love he trusted Garrosh, he is literally the good guy in WoW Lore, then after Garrosh got into high places he f***ed up everything.

He was uninfected with Demon Blood as far as I know but he was a reckless and savage leader, fought alot and broke Thrall's order, only because Thrall cared for him like he was Grom was the reason all that was looked over. Then Vol'Jin didnt like his savage nature, preferring Thrall's kind ways, neither did Cairne, who fought for a way like Thrall's rule died by Garrosh's hand. ( I liked Cairne ;( ) now the Horde is falling apart while Thrall is off trying to literally save the world.

Thrall aint no Saint, he has killed before and he is not entirely pure evil, but he didnt screw everything up like Garrosh. Thrall's my second favorite living character in the WoW Universe, Blizzard screwed some stuff up.

Also on a last note the Orcs were peaceful and even took the Dranai in before Magtheridon got Demon Blood into their system, then the rampaging and destructive Horde was created, not Ner'zul's fault for becoming the Lich King and destroying everything, most of you would have done the same thing if you were being tortured and the only way out is to become an all powerful but immobile armor set.

 

[Levdragon]

I'd like to say that you have some fair points, but Thrall didn't hold the Horde together. There are many dissenters that hate Thrall's rule, Grommash himself one of the first but he realised his foolhearted way. Thrall means for the best, but he's really dooming his own race by splitting it up into 100000. Additionally Thrall had very little strong opposition because the dissenters were a minority, due to most of them directly seceding from the Horde. Grommash isn't that bad for the ORCS but fail for the Horde. And Orcs were NOT peaceful, they had many many wars and had experimented in dark magics before the coming of the Legion. Some of the clans have names like Bonechewers (cannibal orcs) and they had been around long before. The Dark Scar Clan was one that was experimenting with darker magics but the other orcish tribes united to crush it (long before legion again). The orcs also fought greatly with the ogres so no, the orcs were not "peaceful" but simply had a shamanistic way of life. It's similiar to the Native Indians I'd think, they weren't peaceful, they fought each other greatly, but "relativly" peaceful when compared to the Europeans. Remember, relative is the key here.

 

[Soul of Blood]

good point, although some tribes like the blackrock clan were probably not a part of the horde then.

 

[Sunreaver]

I will like to see Garrosh fall and killed by voljin