[Campaign] The First War

[OutsiderXE]

Inspired by the open source project [Melee] WC3: Orcs & Humans v1.1.5 by @loktar I have started to write a plan for a Warcraft 1 remake campaign currently called Lore & Legends: The First War.

Key Features

• Story: WC3-like re-telling of the events of Warcraft 1 including necessary retcons (i.e. the Horde won in the end).
• Gameplay: WC1 tech-tree merged with WC3 gameplay including assymetrical race balance, heroes, items, economy. WC3-like level design.
• Presentation: WC3 Classic SD visuals and in-game cinematics, potentially (AI) voice-over, no over-use of imported assets
• Open source development: Anyone can contribute, from ideas to actual level design

Comparing to other WC1 remakes
LordPerenoldeII's WC1 Remake (Warcraft: Orcs & Humans REMAKE) is great if you want to play WC1 as it was, but with better graphics and controls. It still has outdated level design, story-telling and unit balance.

ComradeMapper's The Beginning ([Campaign] - WarCraft: The Beginning) is inspired by the WC movie and deviates from the First War by focusing on events already playable in The Last Guardian. Also, from our knowledge, it was last updated in 2021, so it could be considered abandoned.

Story
Key points to the human campaign include investigating the orc presence in the Swamp of Sorrows, identifying Medivh as a threat and defending Stormwind in the first siege. The orc story picks up from there, focusing on internal struggles (Blackhands, Frostwolves, Gul'dan) before marching on Stormwind for the second siege. One goal is to not overlap too much with The Last Guardian, but let it naturally co-exist by showcasing Lothar's perspective on the events instead of Khadgar's.

Status
Chapter 1 is in playable alpha. Currently fleshing out the story before moving on to Chapter 2.

All basic data is already done by loktar via [Melee] WC3: Orcs & Humans v1.1.5. More fine-tuning and new custom spells for heroes will probably be made.

Campaign Summary: The First War
Dialogue: LLTFW_Transcript.xlsx
Campaign: LL_TFW_SD002.w3n

Open Source Development
I've attached the campaign file for everyone. Currently Chapter 1 is fully playable, but contains many unfinished elements.
Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas on this thread or on my discord channel Tritt dem Lore & Legends-Discord-Server bei! . Nobody is wrong. We want everyone to enjoy it.
Disclaimer: I'm currently involved in other projects, and those take precedence, but it doesn't hurt to discuss and write down some ideas.

 

[tulee]

I like how random this was. You saw the thread by Loktar and decided to make a new cmapaign about it. Glad you are avoiding the events of the Last Guardian so there isn't unnecessary overlap with your other campaign.

 

[tillinghast]

including modern retcons

worthless

 

[OutsiderXE]

worthless

We wouldn't go so far as to say IT WAS THE JAILER!
It's more like WC1 from a WC3 perspective. Meaning, the orcs definitely won the first war.

 

[tillinghast]

We wouldn't go so far as to say IT WAS THE JAILER!
It's more like WC1 from a WC3 perspective. Meaning, the orcs definitely won the first war.

wc3-fied "oh no we are poor shamanistic peace-loving people, it was le demons that corrupted us" orcs? what's the point

 

[OutsiderXE]

wc3-fied "oh no we are poor shamanistic peace-loving people, it was le demons that corrupted us" orcs? what's the point

You are exaggerating. WC lore shows enough examples of orcs being violent before and after their demonic posession. If you leave out that part, would also leave out Gul'dan and the Frostwolves?

The way I have this formed in my head now is that its told from the perspective of Doomhammer. He sees Gul'dan as a traitor, but he is still a conqueror. There won't be any mention of "going back to peaceful" times.

 

[jardasplay]

Please give us heroes!

 

[OutsiderXE]

Please give us heroes!

The campaigns will have WC3-like heroes:
Humans: Lothar, Gavinrad, Khadgar
Orcs: Doomhammer, Rend, Maim, Garona

 

[Footman16]

Just a couple of bits of information it might be worth including such as the patch it's being made for (I'm assuming latest) and what graphics mode you'll be working in.

Other than that this looks good. There's been a number of Wc1 stories in Wc3 such as Fall of the Lion but it would be good to have a high quality re-telling that is fully finished and integrates the stories and lore of Wc1 into the Wc3 world

 

[tillinghast]

You are exaggerating. WC lore shows enough examples of orcs being violent before and after their demonic posession. If you leave out that part, would also leave out Gul'dan and the Frostwolves?

The way I have this formed in my head now is that its told from the perspective of Doomhammer. He sees Gul'dan as a traitor, but he is still a conqueror. There won't be any mention of "going back to peaceful" times.

if you're including demonic possession then it's worthless, i'm pretty sure they came up with that to sell world of warcraft
i'd leave out everything that's not in the warcraft 1 game and manual
so far this is like a big budget hollywood remake of a small movie, so exactly how blizzard would do it, so good job i guess

 

[OutsiderXE]

if you're including demonic possession then it's worthless, i'm pretty sure they came up with that to sell world of warcraft
i'd leave out everything that's not in the warcraft 1 game and manual
so far this is like a big budget hollywood remake of a small movie, so exactly how blizzard would do it, so good job i guess

So you don't like WC3?

Good news everyone. I wrote dialogue for the intro cinematic and Chapter 1: LLTFW_Transcript.xlsx

 

[tillinghast]

So you don't like WC3?

no, i like modeling for wc3

 

[loktar]

Can't tell you how excited I am for this, especially if it's based on my melee map. The existing WC1 remakes are great in their own right (although I haven't played all of them), but this project is pretty much in line with my own vision of a modern WC3/Blizzard-style remake, and OutsiderXE (who made some of my favorite custom campaigns ever) is the perfect person to take it on

I currently don't have much to contribute, but would love to help with triggering/scripting and model editing. I might also take some inspiration in the end to update my melee map, especially hero designs.

I will play the first map when I have some time, probably later tonight.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Here is a completely revised Chapter 1: LL_TFW_SD001.w3n

• Redesigned basic layout
• Changed quests
• Added some placeholder cinematics incl. AI audio
• Can play map from start to finish, but still a lot to do

 

[Vindicator777]

Too many melee heroes. Rend on a wolf. Maim to be some sort of Spearman?

Maybe replace blakhand sons to KilRogg and ChoGall?

 

[loktar]

Just played the first mission. It's a really good start! Some notes:

• Lothar still has the melee proper names, should be changed to just Anduin Lothar.
• The Trained Soldiers count immediately goes to 4 when you train the first unit, so it's including the 3 you get at the start of the mission.
• Obviously the cinematics are still bare-bones, but I really like the dialogue so far.
• The enemy Chieftain of course needs a more generic model. I will see if I can find a good one later.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Just played the first mission. It's a really good start! Some notes:

• Lothar still has the melee proper names, should be changed to just Anduin Lothar.
• The Trained Soldiers count immediately goes to 4 when you train the first unit, so it's including the 3 you get at the start of the mission.
• Obviously the cinematics are still bare-bones, but I really like the dialogue so far.
• The enemy Chieftain of course needs a more generic model. I will see if I can find a good one later.

Cool. I dont know how quickly you downloaded it but just a few minutes ago I updated it again with terrain changes and added enemies. It plays almost like a normal map now. Next I will add a simple optional quest (The Lost Supplies - Gather lost items) and fix the issues you mentioned. Afterwards I'll add some triggered stuff (enemies attacking) etc. First map will be VERY simple. Not sure how I will handle AI in later maps, maybe I need your help.

 

[loktar]

Cool. I dont know how quickly you downloaded it but just a few minutes ago I updated it again with terrain changes and added enemies. It plays almost like a normal map now. Next I will add a simple optional quest (The Lost Supplies - Gather lost items) and fix the issues you mentioned. Afterwards I'll add some triggered stuff (enemies attacking) etc. First map will be VERY simple. Not sure how I will handle AI in later maps, maybe I need your help.

I think I downloaded it before those changes I'll wait until you do the other updates before playing again. I think this model (young version) might be a good candidate for a generic Chieftain hero.

For AI, I don't have experience with campaign AI but I can probably figure it out by looking at the WC3 campaign AI files.

 

[deepstrasz]

By the way, I think I forgot to mention it would be a good idea to keep the portal a mystery until Warcraft II. The humans might be thinking perhaps these creatures came from some other land/continent and then in the second game they find it's actually from another world.

Maybe replace blakhand sons to KilRogg and ChoGall?

Could work. Also there you can read how they escaped without the humans discovering the portal.

Spoiler

By the way in the Orcs & Humans manual it says Medivh opened the portal by accident during the fight with his father (Fordred Aran or what was it in the following games?) compared to Warcraft II where he did it on purpose (Sargeras [the demon lord, not broken titan], corruption etc.).

Spoiler

And that the warlocks found a rift and studied it ultimately succeeding in opening it which lead to Azeroth.

Spoiler

There was a time gap between the first contact and later ones:

Spoiler

Also, no Gul'dan or Warlock puppeteering Blackahand who rose to power by strength.

Spoiler

I guess that's why tillingshast is mad xD

wc3-fied "oh no we are poor shamanistic peace-loving people, it was le demons that corrupted us" orcs? what's the point

That's from Warcraft II, by the way (Ner'zhul etc.). Only the Frostwolf clan appeared in the third.

 

[knight26]

Your campaigns are always worthy of coming back to war3.
Thank you for making them, I'll keep an eye out when this comes to fruition.

 

[OutsiderXE]

By the way, I think I forgot to mention it would be a good idea to keep the portal a mystery until Warcraft II. The humans might be thinking perhaps these creatures came from some other land/continent and then in the second game they find it's actually from another world.


Could work. Also there you can read how they escaped without the humans discovering the portal.

Spoiler

View attachment 500875

By the way in the Orcs & Humans manual it says Medivh opened the portal by accident during the fight with his father (Fordred Aran or what was it in the following games?) compared to Warcraft II where he did it on purpose (Sargeras [the demon lord, not broken titan], corruption etc.).

Spoiler

View attachment 500876

And that the warlocks found a rift and studied it ultimately succeeding in opening it which lead to Azeroth.

Spoiler

View attachment 500877

There was a time gap between the first contact and later ones:

Spoiler

View attachment 500878

Also, no Gul'dan or Warlock puppeteering Blackahand who rose to power by strength.

Spoiler

View attachment 500879

I guess that's why tillingshast is mad xD


That's from Warcraft II, by the way (Ner'zhul etc.). Only the Frostwolf clan appeared in the third.

I find it very interesting to see what small and big changes have been forgotten over time and what we take for granted now. Maybe in 10 years people will really accept the jailer?^^

 

[loktar]

Playing the updated campaign, some notes:

• Intro cinematic is very nice! Can't wait to see it finished.
• Terrain/level design (including enemy/creep placement) is also very nice.
• By the time I killed the gnolls attacking the Lost Scouts base, one peasant was dead and the other two almost dead and had run away into the trees. Maybe better to spawn them after you take control of the base ("exiting" the town hall)?
• The first ingame dialogue ("Lothar, my trusted friend...") repeated itself, once when I "rescued" that footman, and then again when I took control of the base. Also, I assume this is a placeholder for different dialog (as it's a repeat of the first Llane intro cinematic lines)?
• The base building at the start is a bit slow IMO, I would suggest adding a second farm to start. Maybe that's just me though.
• When you have trained 6 soldiers, the quest only updates after you kill the grunts. The delay is a bit awkward, I would do it as soon as the last soldier is trained.
• In the outro cinematic, a grunt was just standing there next to my army, and the barracks Work animation was playing. I would suggest removing all orc units from the map and cancelling any production in the barracks when the cinematic starts.
• I like the optional quest, it encourages the player to explore the map. Maybe add some dialog when the player comes near a crate for the first time that discovers the quest, to make sure players notice? Just a thought.
• A suggestion: maybe have 2 or 3 grunts from the enemy base (where the barracks is) attack your base every couple of minutes. If the player takes too long to advance, this might add some tension.
• Overall, this is shaping up to be a really nice introduction for a first war campaign

Edit: btw, for future reference, the following spells are scripted and will require the "WC1 Script" library (the custom melee functions can be easily removed):

• Necrolyte: Unholy Armor
• Warlock: Poison Cloud (in this case it's the special "unit" and not the ability itself that is scripted)
• Assassin/Garona: Shadowstep & Backstab
• Sorcerer/Cho'gall: Conversion
• Commander/Gavinrad: Charge

 

[Nobelian]

I don't know why, when I log in, it doesn't work and there is a red warning word "corrupt" or "broken".

 

[OutsiderXE]

I don't know why, when I log in, it doesn't work and there is a red warning word "corrupt" or "broken".

The project is being created on the latest version of Reforged with SD graphics.
Ignore rhr prologue map. Only Chapter 1 works.

 

[deepstrasz]

Would be neat if someone could make tiles from the remastered game version or recreate WcIII ones based on the Orcs & Humans ones.

If you decide to keep the prologue before the mystery in the first human mission, then the original game intro can be before the prologue since the prologue already spoils the coming of the orcs. If the prologue isn't used, then the intro will spoil the orcs' arrival but will keep the mystery of where they came from.

About the trolls and other races. They could just be told of, not necessarily directly engaged (a map about them would be superfluous; maybe, an optional quest/Easter egg/secret?):
Warchief there are other creatures more like us than the humans in these lands (perhaps much farther?). They seem to be more than savages.
Later on, you could expand or something:
Warchief, we've tried establishing closer contact with the creatures known as trolls but their tribe(s?) retreated deeper into the jungle(s). Some of them were hostile or unwilling to try cooperating.

It would be a good idea not to have only one hero play throughout a campaign when there's many being part of the story as that would create monotonous gameplay. Instead of having only Lothar, potentially, add the player/commander of the original game (who becomes the Defender of the Crown; model based on it: Defender of the Crown (Orcs & Humans game)) to take Lothar's place in some maps? What will the enemy heroes, if any, of those chapters be?
For replayability's sake, one could have some heroes be chosen to be present or not in the campaigns? Like, maybe, you'd want Rend or Maim to be in every (if story permits) chapter alongside Blackhand? I don't know.

EDIT:
Pertaining the first playable map:
-I guess Uther's picture is a placeholder? Now, what would define Stormwind in Llane's castle?
-Llane could use a different model. Something like this King Llane (Orcs & Humans) which also has a throne stand animation.
-trolls, here? Should we have trolls so involved in the game? I get that they aren't in the story, yet/that much but?
-should we be having golems amok now when there's not those many mages/wizards in the world? Perhaps, it's better to have them in Medivh's tower or in isolate places and have them remnants of the first and second wars instead, since their masters died? Rather than golems, you could use elementals.
-not sure it makes sense to have melee type creep camps like mixing gnolls with spiders? Perhaps, each chapter could come with its zonal creep types or something along this line?
-I think the scouts' transmissions should be more than news bulletins, Lothar replying to them, for immersion and character development?
-the scout appeared out of thin air. The trolls were just minding their own business standing in the middle of the road/path xD
-there could definitely be some text/talking/little story about the lost loot optional quest.
-some of the loot is too easy to find/take (referring to the one near the green bridge).
-bridges need a bit more adjusting for their textures not to be blended with the terrain's in a bad way.
-intentional for the terrain height to be towards flat than tad realistic?
-an idea that might be a little annoying: have the cage prisoners be simple villagers which could turn into footmen or archers if brought near certain buildings? That way you have to actually work on getting the soldier not just simply destroying the cage.
-the ending scene should be like a Warcraft III one. WiP, I know. Perhaps it could show Lothar from behind talking to the troops showing the path towards the swamps or next zone in front of them?
Overall, quite lovely. I prefer custom hero abilities though. These of course as with the standard ones come with balancing requirements.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

A new campaign from @OutsiderXE? Looking forward to recording it.

 

[Shar Dundred]

A NEW OutsiderXE project?
Like new? Like actually new?

What a time to be alive!

 

[deepstrasz]

More on the trolls

Spoiler

They or at least some, were nomadic, so I guess you could see them around places in Azeroth.

However, note they were mainly in Lordaeron or even farther up:

Spoiler

Although some of them were engaged by the dwarves. Khaz Modan is south of their lands and north of Stormwind.

Trolls cooperated with goblins by the way:

Spoiler

IMO, the closest ones to Stormwind are the Stranglethorn jungle Darkspear but those came into contact with the orcs via Thrall, way later on.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

Also, @OutsiderXE, did you see the next idea-sheet from Blizzard?

Warcraft III: Reforged: The First War

The First War was an intended bonus campaign for Warcraft III: Reforged, depicting an updated version of the events of the First War, originally shown in Warcraft: Orcs & Humans. It would have had hero-centric gameplay and storytelling. Though the campaign was never created, some of its design...

wowpedia.fandom.com

If I understood your project right, those ideas could help you flesh out some details. Maybe you have already taken them or discarded them, but I still find them pretty useful.

 

[deepstrasz]

Also, I'm thinking what you could do with ogres, since they're one headed in the first and have two heads in the second.

Spoiler

I guess, the normal headed one could be native to Azeroth. Or, retcon (since they did that in the second game), that only the ogre magi has two heads.
We also have a one headed ogre in The Founding of Durotar but without any explanation. Another thing you could do is have both two and one headed ones but that won't explain the ones having only one head in the first game.

 

[raypack]

So I tried it and I really like it!
It obviously needs polishing but this is pre-alpha stuff so it's normal to be rough around the edges.

Also I don't think it should necessarily be 100% canon. Like fighting random trolls and ogres before you even engage the orcs is a good thing honestly.
Not only lore but units, abilities etc don't have to be exact replicas of the original imo, but this is just my humble opinion.

I could help out with some AI script related stuff, especially if the AI scripts are similar to the ones of AI in the wc3 campaigns.
At least give some tips if you need.

Another thing to consider is maybe give it reign of chaos balancing for a more classic feel?
Most melee units dealing extra damage to (most) ranged units and all spellcasters (since Normal damage deals extra damage to Light armor in RoC and spellcasters and ranged units have light armor).

PS: I'm happy that units have their wc3 stats (footmen having 420 hp instead of like 60).

 

[The Nightmare Book]

A new campaign from @OutsiderXE? Looking forward to recording it.

And I'm quick enough!

 

[deepstrasz]

Like fighting random trolls and ogres before you even engage the orcs is a good thing honestly.

Not only lore but units, abilities etc don't have to be exact replicas of the original imo, but this is just my humble opinion.

Yeah sure. Let's have the main protagonist be Arthas and play the RoC techtree since a lot of you folk just love replaying re-re-re....n of the original Warcraft III campaigns.
If you don't follow any lore, what's the point then? Ogres are definitely not Azeroth material and having them enemies from the get-go is pretty far fetched, like they somehow entered the portal without the orcs noticing or something.

Another thing to consider is maybe give it reign of chaos balancing for a more classic feel?

As I was implying...
Sorry. But I really don't understand loving the stay in mediocrity.

 

[raypack]

Yeah sure. Let's have the main protagonist be Arthas and play the RoC techtree since a lot of you folk just love replaying re-re-re....n of the original Warcraft III campaigns.
If you don't follow any lore, what's the point then? Ogres are definitely not Azeroth material and having them enemies from the get-go is pretty far fetched, like they somehow entered the portal without the orcs noticing or something.

As I was implying...
Sorry. But I really don't understand loving the stay in mediocrity.

About the canon stuff you say I can't really argue with you. Obviously I'm not talking about completely changing everything but a few things here and there isn't necessarily bad IF it serves for a far more gameplay engaging campaign. Moreover, we already have like 5 (great) remakes of wc1, seeing a 6th exact replica of wc1 isn't exactly thrilling imo.

And I don't get what mediocrity you're talking about! It literally doesn't get better than what already exists. I find RoC balancing WAY better for campaign maps (a.k.a: singleplayer maps where you fight AI and have AI allies). It just feels right. Most melee units dealing extra damage to your spellcasters for example instead of a big part of the ranged units AND all towers just annihilating your spellcasters. For real I just don't use spellcasters (especially priests who have to be close to the melee units to heal them) in custom campaigns just cause 1 tower shot literally deals like 80 damage to them. In RoC towers actually deal reduced damage to spellcasters, making them not die if you don't focus for them for like 2 seconds.
And melee units HAVING to reach your spellcasters so they can deal a lot of damage to them is just so much better for a less annoying singleplayer customized gameplay experience than having a unit with 600-800 attack range snipe your spellcasters upon sighting them.
Just an example...

 

[OutsiderXE]

Hello, today I was a bit laid back, optimizing some stuff here and there (no update to the campaign file yet).

I aim for a campaign that is as close to (WC3) canon as possible. With that ind mind, what low level creeps make sense in Chapter 1, around the border to the Black Morass during the First War?

 

[raypack]

Hello, today I was a bit laid back, optimizing some stuff here and there (no update to the campaign file yet).

I aim for a campaign that is as close to (WC3) canon as possible. With that ind mind, what low level creeps make sense in Chapter 1, around the border to the Black Morass during the First War?

You can create like a dig site with a cave (that terrain doodad) and place some kobolds?
Just so that you fight something different from gnolls, spiders and golems.
Some bears (brown ones, not polar) too?

 

[deepstrasz]

I aim for a campaign that is as close to (WC3) canon as possible. With that ind mind, what low level creeps make sense in Chapter 1, around the border to the Black Morass during the First War?

Ultimately it's an exercise of imagination to have decent variation.
It's hard-impossible to pin point specific locations for all neutral hostiles.

From the Orcs & Humans manual:
Scorpions in underground places.

Spoiler

The huge spiders are remnants of warlock experimentation on normal spiders. They are found in dark and dank places.

Spoiler

Brigands which could potentially be in most places, but I reckon those of interest to them, not in swamps.

Spoiler

Slimes could be in various places, I believe wet ones, swamps/marshes, caves etc.

Spoiler

Isolated Skeletons and undead could work.

Spoiler

Elementals: water and fire. Perhaps a differentiation could be made between elementals (to be part of nature) and golems (created by wizards/magi etc.). Warcraft III has no earth elementals. Instead it has golems. It has no fire elementals either (unless we consider the lava spawn one which isn't incorrect) but it has water ones.

Spoiler

Of course, some daemons, here and there in proper places where it makes sense. Either summoned by someone or remnants. Pretty similar to the elemental/golem thing.

Spoiler

Ogres could be fought by humans in few numbers in places near orc camps. The renegade ogre group went into the Dead Mines.

From the Warcraft II manual:
Giant turtles are found in the southern seas. There's giant turtles which can go on land in the third game.

Spoiler

Daemon variety, flying etc. Perhaps, some could be on their own (interest) in places.

Spoiler

Dragons were located in the northern parts of Azeroth.

Spoiler

From the Warcraft III manual (sadly, there's no The Frozen Throne one with specific unit lore):
It's stated that the bestiary for Warcraft III is made of those creatures of Lordaeron, Northrend, Kalimdor and demon kind.
Felhounds could be found searching for mana/wizards.

Spoiler

IMO, you should stay off eredar until Warcraft II (Gul'dan chapter where you have to kill him and he's aided by daemons; Tomb of Sargeras related was it?).
And Pit Lords should be left for invasions and such (so, War of the Ancients and Warcraft III). Same with Infernals, I guess, since we already have the fire elemental of Orcs & Humans.

Spoiler

Doom Guards are pretty much the Orcs & Humans Daemons, in appearance at least.

Spoiler

Bandits, again. Could be used as neutral hostiles, a full melee force/faction, whatever.

Spoiler

Dragons, again in more forms. However, only the red seem to be near Azeroth. The others are in Northrend and Kalimdor.

Spoiler

Fallen Priests. Basically corrupted/rogue something. While mentioned here as being in Lordaeron and as a result of the wars and suffering, one could always have some Diablo Lazarus type creeps here and there (Scarlet Crusade, wink, wink) for optional quests.
Enemy wizards could go here as well.

Spoiler

Ghosts. Undead variety, restless spirits. Optional quests, whatnot.
Revenants could go here too.

Spoiler

Gnolls are Lordaeron natives, sadly. Since Redridge is only mentioned in the manual under gnolls and kobolds and not placed on the Warcraft III map, but we'll see in the first game manual that they are to the east of Stormwind. So, gnolls and kobolds could be found around there for Warcraft I.

Spoiler

Kobolds. As mentioned above, they're found in Redridge and Alterac.

Spoiler

Golems. There can be some escapees or ones near renegade wizards but their numbers and placing has to make sense. Most are found in and around Dalaran.

Spoiler

Murlocs could be about everywhere since they come from the ocean and are relatively new to Lordaeron.
Mutant Murlocs could work too in certain cases even if they're mentioned under Kalimdor.

Spoiler

Wolves are on all continents.

Spoiler

Spiders, again. Apparently there were native giant ones in Kalimdor, without magic interference? However, the ones in Azeroth-Lordaeron seem to only be a result of Warlock magics.

Spoiler

Trolls could be fought by humans in isolate cases but Darkspear ones as these are in the south while the Forest Trolls (being nomadic) are north of Khaz Modan (which is northeast of Stormwind) in Lordaeron.

Note that you could potentially have any type of creature/faction unit be rogue/corrupted or something like that.

The first World of Warcraft bestiary isn't much help either but I wouldn't go too far with World of Warcraft stuff: The World of Warcraft Townhall/Beastiary

 

[OutsiderXE]

Dear all, I've read your suggestions regarding not showing the origin of the Dark Portal right away and including the Warcraft 1 introduction cinematic in some form. I've also thought about explaining the relationship between Medivh, Llane and Lothar without repeating The Last Guardian. As a result I have revised the Prologue cinematic for the campaign.

Read here: LLTFW_Transcript.xlsx

The new scenes are from the novel The Last Guardian, but only mentioned briefly in my campaign. The loading screen text is partly taken from the WC1 intro cinematic.

 

[loktar]

Read here: LLTFW_Transcript.xlsx

The new scenes are from the novel The Last Guardian, but only mentioned briefly in my campaign. The loading screen text is partly taken from the WC1 intro cinematic.

Sounds good to me! I liked the old intro, but this is perhaps more fitting as an introduction to the human campaign.

edit: btw, let me know when/if you want me to do some data stuff and/or imports etc. (or anything else I can help with). Just want to make sure I do it with the latest version and that you're not working on it too in the meantime

 

[deepstrasz]

The new scenes are from the novel The Last Guardian, but only mentioned briefly in my campaign. The loading screen text is partly taken from the WC1 intro cinematic.

Alright, so there's differences between various implementations.
For instance in the first game:

Spoiler

and then the second:

Spoiler

So, in the first we have him as a court conjurer, in the second as raised by his conjurer father and in the excel that the coma thing happened during a hunting party or something. Also, in the first it's mentioned that his father is killed trying to contain the burst of energy coming out of the child before going into the coma while in the second there's no mention of what happens to Nielas. I makes sense for the newly added character (The Last Guardian book) to appear but perhaps later since Medivh was kept in the abbey before he awoke.
Not sure anyone else than Aegwynn (during the battle with her son when she gets banished) should get a glimpse of Sargeras or daemonic influence over or related to Medivh until the mystery is solved in his tower. By the way, the corruption of Medivh by Sargeras through Aegwynn is not mentioned in any of the three games. It's more left to interpretation or that Medivh's own adventures with dark magics lead him to be demonically corrupted. Aegwynn is not even mentioned in the third game's manual but there it says Khadgar was Medivh's apprentice (although he appears to be from Lordaeron due to involvement with Turalyon and King Terenas in Warcraft II?).
The three (Lothar, Llane and Medivh) being friends is something from the novel, not the RTS games.

It's said that not only was the kingdom of Azeroth a prosperous one but that it enjoyed peace for generations before the first appearance of the orcs.
So, the incursions with the trolls should be like bandit ambushes, not on the scale of a war like the conflict between them and the elves.

---

For more creep types, you could inspire yourself from the original World of Warcraft.
Northshire Abbey - wolves, kobolds, bandits; original game tunnels - scorpions, spiders, skeletons, ogres (prisoners), slimes, fire elemental
Elwynn Forest (Classic) - bears, boars, gnolls, kobolds, murlocs, spiders, wolves
Goldshire - bears, wolves, bandits, murlocs, gnolls, kobolds
Deadmines (Classic) - kobolds, spiders, rats (yeah, I'm thinking bigger ones which can be hostile) and other stuff that doesn't fit/make sense; original game - renegade ogres, slimes
Medivh's Tower - fire elementals, daemon, slimes, spiders, skeletons; the ones from WoW don't quite fit in: Karazhan (raid) Perhaps, giant bats, imps, giant rats, ghosts?
Redridge Mountains (Classic) - boars, carrion birds, gnolls, murlocs, tarantulas, threshadons (not sure about this one, lol, Loch Ness monster; even about the one before)
In WoW the Black Morass is made of both the Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands.
Blasted Lands (Classic) - basilisks, ghosts, hyenas+scropids+vultures (I don't know...) and demons which don't fit now
Swamp of Sorrows (Classic) - bog beasts, giant crabs, crocolisks, frenzies (giant piranhas xD), oozes, murlocs, sharks (for real xD?), spiders, swamp jaguars (I don't know, maybe in Stranglethorn)

I guess in Medivh's Tower there could be war/battle/siege golems too.
Not sure about sasquatches. They're seen only once as an Easter egg/secret in Lordaeron during an undead mission.

By the way, you could also add critters for more immersion, even new ones like cows and whatnot.

 

[loktar]

I'm not sure about Murlocs. IIRC when Thrall sees them in the WC3 prologue campaign, it's as if it's the first time he encounters them. I always thought they only appeared on land as a result of the events in the WC3 campaign. First and foremost it should be consistent with what we see in WC3 IMO.

 

[deepstrasz]

I always thought they only appeared on land as a result of the events in the WC3 campaign.

Which events are those? It's not like Illidan called the naga (that's TfT, Terror of the Tides). Murlocs aren't demons to come down with the meteors or out of portals. They're savage creatures and as far as we know, nothing happened in the waters then.
And no, it doesn't seem like the first time the orcs see them at all: video.

 

[loktar]

And no, it doesn't seem like the first time the orcs see them at all: video.

Haha, remembered that totally wrong then. Been a loooong time since I played the campaign.

 

[OutsiderXE]

Sounds good to me! I liked the old intro, but this is perhaps more fitting as an introduction to the human campaign.

edit: btw, let me know when/if you want me to do some data stuff and/or imports etc. (or anything else I can help with). Just want to make sure I do it with the latest version and that you're not working on it too in the meantime

I have set up data in a way that i could import your stuff directly. I have nit done a single thong in data except doodads and destructibles.
What i need: young and old versions of llane, lothar, medivh, khadgar and moroes. Best to use same models as TLG campaign.

edit: You can also add cow and bull as critters Bull and Cow
and Sargeras: Sargeras abilities not needed

 

[loktar]

What i need: young and old versions of llane, lothar, medivh, khadgar and moroes. Best to use same models as TLG campaign.

• Llane: there is a young version here. Not sure how fitting it is. Maybe the hammer should be replaced with the sword from the King model in TLG? Or would it be better to just use the King model and change the face to look younger?
• Lothar: I really like the current Champion model as Lothar, which is an edited young version of this model by Tauer. But I assume you're very much not keen on replacing the model in TLG?
• Medivh: I can edit the TLG model. Does it need any changes beside hair color?
• Khadgar: the Apprentice model is already the same as Khadgar in TLG. There is also an accompanying old version available in the same bundle.
• Moroes: really not sure what a young version should look like. A random model I found using keywords from the warcraft wiki page: Steward. Not sure I like it for Moroes lol, would probably need some edits like removing the sack.

I'll start by adding the cow/bull and Sargeras either tonight or tomorrow afternoon, the rest I'll await your feedback on the above.

Edit: hmm, or do you mean like very young versions for the intro, and then "old" WC1-era versions for the rest of the campaign?
Edit2: I'll also add the WC1-knight versions of the riderless horse and bandit lord. Might come in handy later.

 

[OutsiderXE]

• Llane: there is a young version here. Not sure how fitting it is. Maybe the hammer should be replaced with the sword from the King model in TLG? Or would it be better to just use the King model and change the face to look younger?
• Lothar: I really like the current Champion model as Lothar, which is an edited young version of this model by Tauer. But I assume you're very much not keen on replacing the model in TLG?
• Medivh: I can edit the TLG model. Does it need any changes beside hair color?
• Khadgar: the Apprentice model is already the same as Khadgar in TLG. There is also an accompanying old version available in the same bundle.
• Moroes: really not sure what a young version should look like. A random model I found using keywords from the warcraft wiki page: Steward. Not sure I like it for Moroes lol, would probably need some edits like removing the sack.

I'll start by adding the cow/bull and Sargeras either tonight or tomorrow afternoon, the rest I'll await your feedback on the above.

Edit: hmm, or do you mean like very young versions for the intro, and then "old" WC1-era versions for the rest of the campaign?
Edit2: I'll also add the WC1-knight versions of the riderless horse and bandit lord. Might come in handy later.

• Llane: Hammer is fine (he has a hammer when he appears in WoW as a memory), but I don't like the texture. Should look more normal.
• Lothar: We can keep the champion model for now
• Medivh: Maybe also make the face look less wrinkly if possible
• Khadgar: OK
• Moroes: We can just use the current TLG model for young and old. Kinda funny to have this ageless Alfred-like butler.

Can you also check all portraits for your custom models and set them to None, because otherwise their original model will appear when speaking in cinematics.


edit: I updated the campaign file with a basic version of the new Prologue and some small changes for Chapter 1 LL_TFW_SD001.w3n

 

[raypack]

How about using this model for Sargeras? Lord of Darkness
Instead of this model (which looks totally unlike warcraft 3 imo): Sargeras (the model you suggested OutsiderXe)

I think loktar said this since the Sea Witch brings the murloc out to the surface to hunt the trolls in the prologue campaign.
But I'm pretty sure it's not all of the murlocs in the world lol

 

[deepstrasz]

How about using this model for Sargeras? Lord of Darkness

Yeah, if you guys can find one to resemble the Warcraft III manual art...

Spoiler

It also resembles the third game Medivh a bit.

EDIT:
This could be edited: Sargeras (New)
For more eye candy, there's this: Sargeras, the great one although I think it's too much.

 

[OutsiderXE]

How about using this model for Sargeras? Lord of Darkness
Instead of this model (which looks totally unlike warcraft 3 imo): Sargeras (the model you suggested OutsiderXe)

We already use that other model in The Last Guardian, and it looks prety much like Sargeras, except for the missing flame beard. Sargeras will only appear for a few seconds so it should be fine

@loktar When I mean young version I mean like early 20s. Details won't matter much as long as they don't have grey hair.

 

[BaiyuGalan]

This is great.