Sure but we need both for Approved, even if you find quality in usefulness.There's a difference between "quality" and "creativity/originality/uniqueness". Something can be incredibly un-original while still being of excellent quality (and vice versa). We can't conflate the two.
We've been over this before. Modellers like Murlocologist wrote about the possible decline in originality and raising of rips, edits and other stuff.More importantly, I think this is something that should (& could) really be decided by The People. What does the Site as a whole feel about the a Resource section should be about? A museum/hall-of-fame for only the best & most creative? An art-collection for the fanciest works of art? Or a warehouse of meaningful & useful resources?
We've been over this before. Modellers like Murlocologist wrote about the possible decline in originality and raising of rips, edits and other stuff.
Also, let's not mix Substandard with Approved. I'm not for it. If you do it for one resources section forum, then you have to do it for all. I'm not gonna be approving maps because they're useful. That way all maps are useful if they're fun to many people. We're not after popularity. We're trying to have a quality site, at least I hope we still are.
I support Moonman's idea with being able to make both Substandard and Approved models visible on choice as shown in his example image. I am against the elimination of Substandard so that simple edits, no matter how useful, won't make it to Approved.I think we should have a mix of substandard and approved, new ones like Moonman suggested.
To my knowledge, hiveworkshop was never meant to be a repository to upload every single resource into. It was meant to represent quality. I am not saying Reforged edited models are not high quality, but the measure of quality should not be popularity or perceived usefulness. , as mentioned by several users here. If that was the case, every single edit of the blizzard campaign would be approved here, since there is an strong desire among many players with changing 1-2 models and then submitting the blizzard campaign to hiveworkshop.
The creativity requirement is necessary in my opinion, otherwise there would be a flood of resources.
I meant, that the Thrall model is not a custom made model and it has non-original animations thus creativity and originality is pretty close to 0 unlike a custom classic model that only has unoriginal/ripped of animations. Sure, many if not most use ingame textures as well but the shapes and polygons are original.
its something a lot of people will want or need then its usefulness outweighs the simplicity.
They can be allowed in Substandard. What's the big deal anyway?For example its why we allow screenshot icons of resources to be approved because they needs icons and not everyone can make hand drawn icons or has the time.
You are right. Your example applies to the Warcraft II model edits of Tamplier777You can modify, twist, turn, cut and re-texture Blizzard's meshes sufficiently to blur the line between what is fully custom and what is an edit. I don't want to toot my own horn too hard or anything, but I doubt you'd be able to tell, for example, which parts here are custom, which are based on Blizzard models, and which Blizzard models those were (for the record, much of this is based on Blizzard's work):
I'm only expressing my opinion, nothing more. But because I'm not at the same level as you guys on modelling, doesn't mean I will stand aside risking improper changes extending to Maps.Frankly, with all due respect to you, deepstrasz, I would appreciate it if some model moderators and site administrators chimed in on this issue as well.
The result of quantity before quality tactic speaks for itself, site is losing activity, both when it comes to resources and even when it comes to amount of feedback and ratings given. It seems that lowering of criteria for approval and removal of rewards (DC, reviewer rating...) resulted in decrease of motivation to make a high quality resources, not to mention you can't filter out complex models from simple ones because ratings are irrelevant as well.
Substandard resources could appear if searched for, however not in mix with approved resources and not through default option. Priority needs to be given to approved resources.Murlocologist, how would you feel if, upon Searching for something, the "Substandard" resources were no longer hidden/partitioned but instead appeared at the end of the list (i.e. after all the "Approved" ones)?
perhaps, make a middle ground for "approved" and "substandard" and change the names and description so it goes like this:
Top Quality -> Approved -> Substandard, where the good things in "substandard" is put into "Approved" and the ones in "approved' is put into "Top Quality" and then the bad things in "Substandard"
And moreover, since @Archian said that himself and Ralle are "working on it", I'm extremely optimistic for the situation to improve. However, I would like to voice my hope that the design for the resource sections (and the rest of the site?) will be shared with the community and be open to the community's feedback before being published into the live version of the site. One key issue with Hive 2.0 was that we had no real idea of what to expect, and many things were changed for the worse in a way that the community at large disliked and had a hard time dealing with. This hurt the community and drove people away.
Retera's Model Studio is obviously not Substandard. It's the best thing we've got (since it has chances of being updated) and the only thing for Reforged modelling right now.I probably shouldn't even be a part of this discussion and should work on making a better model editor for the community. Retera Model Studio should probably be marked as substandard until I release the next version to the official tools page that supports Reforged, and I was really hoping maybe I would get that done this weekend.
Why wouldn't we? You can see a lot of creative folks coming in for Reforged.Edit: I guess what I mostly want is that we have something good in a few years, let's say 2025, so that this game technology is still one that's fun to be around with lots of good assets available. And just the other night some guy was telling me that there are not any Reforged models. But I mean, I've made some.
Retera's Model Studio is obviously not Substandard. It's the best thing we've got (since it has chances of being updated) and the only thing for Reforged modelling right now.
Why wouldn't we? You can see a lot of creative folks coming in for Reforged.
Don't worry, change is happening. The important thing is for it to happen properly.
Main problem is that more casual people consider these models second coming of christ just because of excessive "fidelity" stuff they use as base for copypasting/geomerging. They are not made from scratch and that is main reason they go to substandard. For me its non issue i used hundreds of models from substandard for my projects. I agree that it should be renamed to "Accepted" or be the main submission board. If something is truly bad then it should be in "Need/Awaiting update" section. Current main submissions should be something noting their high quality and craftsmanship for all works done from scratch that are there.
My side tangent would be as of conseqeunces of Blizzards in appropriate approach is that newbies create horribly polygon heavy models and we have tons of 60k or even 100k polygon/triangle models which is insanely bad for an rts game performance wise, especially with wc3 having issues on massive custom maps with og assets as it is, but that's mainly fault for bad direction and lack of thought put to it by classic team in terms of art and consequences it will have. If they done it right we probably could still have single section for both hd and sd custom assets, and we would have many more people onboard, and not split in the community....but its whole another thing altogether.
Reforged assets should have their own section that shouldnt mix with classic assets because it just makes it hard to browse either, and then it just should have its own subcathegories for "Featured/Recommended" models and "Substandard/Submissions". Having them in one bag is bad for everyone involved.
A few small differences:Sorry for being naive and unknowing, but as of right now I don't know what the difference is between a normal icon and a reforged one.
Majority of people who use resources come in looking for a specific type of thing first, i.e models /skins/ icons, so it might be better to keep the type of resource as one of the few choices users make when searching for things (how it currently is) as posed to at the end.IMO another point is that the categorization should be inverted.
Currently it's: Resources -> Models -> Reforged Models
I believe it would make more sense the opposite way, i.e. Resources -> Reforged -> Models (akin to how it was for Sc2 resources back in the days)
My reason for this line of thinking is as follows: From a user perspective, I imagine most people are either interested in resources for a SD or a HD map, whether it be models or textures. It makes (for me) little sense in assuming that a person is first and foremost interested in a model, and secondarily interested in whether it's in HD or SD.
Quite an interesting idea, although there should be macros for that, and even if just regular saves it would take like 30 seconds to same in all formats.Not sure if I have exposed this idea before: how about the Hive automatically generates icon variations (DISBTN, PASBTN, etc.) from a base icon (64x64 or 256x256) that the user submits?