Terran Base Defence v46

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Vengeancekael
Date: 2012/Oct/22 20:58:45

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[Orcnet]

Terran Base Defence (Version 27)

Rating System

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	5/5	91-100	A

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	4/5	81-90%	B

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	3/5	75-80%	C

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	2/5	70-74%	D

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	1/5	50-69%	F

Overview:

Gameplay

"Terran Base Defense" is a defense/survival map that sets on the theme of starcraft's terrans in preparation in evacuating a base against zerg swarms, the main goal is survive the wave for 25 minutes until a Rescue Ship arrives, also to atleast let a few civilians survive throughout the game, game ends when goal is achieved or all civilians are killed.

"the game is actually great, both normal and overmind(hard mode) difficulties is player-judgmental which is quite not imbalance, although the units and hero upgrades is quite a few, and so as the item pickups, this suggestions of mine can somehow gear up the player in a better game quality, co-op is moderately fine same goes to replay value."

Terrain

"Terrain looks very dull, not by how its wide range but to the base it doesn't look facility-like at all, the placement of doodads such as a few trees, sewer pipes and medieval buildings brings a bad decor to the map that is a sci-fi theme, I suggest decorating it by means of replicating it from starcraft."

Management

"All out review, the map is keen to me. through play style and concept I'd take this useful for co-op players, but to revision your map, do please decor it a bit, the UI your using is a warcraft human theme, their are a lot of sites out there for you to find a starcraft theme for this game, then your descriptions, the quest menu shows blank titles it doesn't look good so type at least a logical title for it like for an example to the left 'Game Info' and the right 'Source Info', do add a CREDIT LIST, don't be neglectful to it, its like your giving a recipe without the ingredient list. and finally to your triggers, I haven't spot a bug for now but some weird issues about the map is a Rescue ship just popped out in the north-east of the map, should you at least code a trigger to hide it and reveal it after the time lapse? its up to you to fix this. Overall this is good to go."



Total Score:

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	9/15	80%	C

Status: APPROVED (Depends on Resource Moderators)

 

[Radicool]

Thanks for the review and advice. I'll release a patch when I get the time.

Edit: Just released version 28. Most things you mentioned have been improved as
stated in the changelog. I may work on the environment in a later patch.

 

[Schamanu]

Hi, i tried your map in singleplayer and i made it to a point where only 9 minutes were left on the clock, the map is entertaining and challenging, but i would prefer to play it in bnet. It would help if you would upload your map to http://www.makemehost.com/ so people can host your map on bnet with the bots from this site. So even people who cant host on their own can be a host on bnet. Btw it would also help to improve the popularity of the map.

Looking forward to future versions of the map

 

[cleavinghammer]

Just played this, and I have to say I like it so far, especially the original voices and how you can get every hero in single player.

If I may make a few suggestions:
A counter to keep track of remaining civilians.
More upgrades would be nice, seeing a 1 next to damage and armor all the time is depressing.
Maybe add the other music tracks, just the one gets repetitive.
Siege tanks sink into the ground on the south ledge of the west entrance.
Are the Goliath's turrets timed or not? I know they disappear when resummoned, but sometimes they just disappear randomly.

Other than that definitely a great map.

 

[clockwork2]

Here's my opinion of the map:
Theme: 5/5, I enjoyed the fact it follows the general fact that most of the time, Terran vs zerg sieges are often with the zerg on the offensive. Not to mention HUGE Starcraft fan.
Gameplay: Excellent, it is challenging alone, but I enjoy the fact that there is actual Starcraft sounds in it(Which might account for the fact there are no Ghosts in the map). It is challenging and fun. 5/5
Heroes: While I wish Jim Raynor was in this, it would not make sense(seeing as I don't think the map is Mar Sara, actually maybe it is, but then where is Raynor?). But all in all, the Hero names could be better. My test try of the map, my Marine was called Charlemagne. Not to mention, if one was truly a SC die-hard, then the heroes would all be team-coloured Teal(Most SC heroes were teal colored, with the exception of Infested Duran, and Infested Kerrigan(she had no team color)). 4/5
Overall: pretty cool, it mighta be rude to take away a star just for True Team-color heroes, so.... sorry.

 

[Radicool]

Just played this, and I have to say I like it so far, especially the original voices and how you can get every hero in single player.

If I may make a few suggestions:
A counter to keep track of remaining civilians.
Maybe add the other music tracks, just the one gets repetitive.
Are the Goliath's turrets timed or not? I know they disappear when resummoned, but sometimes they just disappear randomly.

Other than that definitely a great map.

I'll look into these points. I like the idea of another song, but music increases map size greatly.
I like to host this game a lot, and the larger the map size, the longer it takes everyone to finish
downloading the map. I might trial it in the next patch, and remove it later if the increased
download time is too noticeable.

And the Goliath turrets are timed, however a timer bar doesn't show. I'll look into this. Thanks

Originally posted by schamanu

Hi, i tried your map in singleplayer and i made it to a point where only 9 minutes were left on the clock, the map is entertaining and challenging, but i would prefer to play it in bnet. It would help if you would upload your map to http://www.makemehost.com/ so people can host your map on bnet with the bots from this site. So even people who cant host on their own can be a host on bnet. Btw it would also help to improve the popularity of the map.

Looking forward to future versions of the map

Yes, this map is designed for multiplayer. It's always fun to co-operate with other players. I have
never heard of that website, but I'll publish my map there as well in a future patch. Some things I'm
currently working on.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Siege'd tanks cost 3 food, but only 2 when mobile.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel the Medic and SCV heroes have problems. The medic's Heal takes a while to cast, delaying further casting, so a large healing spell tends to come too late.
The SCV is always heading into melee, where he dies very fast.

I readily acknowledge that these may not come up in multiplayer, so feel free to ignore this.

 

[Radicool]

Siege'd tanks cost 3 food, but only 2 when mobile.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel the Medic and SCV heroes have problems. The medic's Heal takes a while to cast, delaying further casting, so a large healing spell tends to come too late.
The SCV is always heading into melee, where he dies very fast.

I readily acknowledge that these may not come up in multiplayer, so feel free to ignore this.

Thanks for testing. The tank's food cost will be fixed in the next patch. The medic's cast time will be
reduced, but I think the SCV should stay meele. His attack animation wouldn't suit a projectile based
attack. Besides, he spends his time repairing or casting spells. Hold position is useful for keeping the
SCV hero out of trouble.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I tried that, unfortunately it also prevents him from repairing anything.

 

[Radicool]

Then, I think you just have to click hold position after he finishes repairing each time. Its not a bug or glitch, its just the way it is.


Edit: Just released version 29. Changes are specified in the changelog.

Edit 2: Released version 30. Added a screenshot. I may add more later.

 

[Jas.per]

awesome~!!

 

[ianskie]

Yeah

Nice map!!! The models are cool!!! YEAH!!!!! IHAVETOTRYTHIS!!!!

 

[UndeadImmortal]

I have a suggestion, change the "Combat - Acquisition Range" of the SCVs to its current attack range, so it will not engage nearby enemy units.

 

[Radicool]

I have a suggestion, change the "Combat - Acquisition Range" of the SCVs to its current attack range, so it will not engage nearby enemy units.

Thats a good idea, I will fix that in the next patch. Thanks.

Edit: Released version 31 and 32.

 

[Jas.per]

Super Awesome yeah I like it

 

[PyroKnight]

This map is same as this one, and it's uploaded on 7 Jul 2010 14:25.

 

[Radicool]

This map is same as this one, and it's uploaded on 7 Jul 2010 14:25.

As I mentioned in the credits, this map was originally made by "gandalf_03246". You can find the map here:
http://www.epicwar.com/maps/1316/

However, Gandalf based his map off another Starship troopers map, similar to the one you pointed out. Again,
these Starship trooper maps have been around for years, well before 2010 (I remember playing them when I
was like 10, 8 or so years ago), so the map you posted is also an edit of a previous map. I couldn't tell you who
invented the first starship troopers map.

I created this map because I thought the starship troopers maps were a little shallow and unpolished. I tried to
recreate it to be more tactical, interesting, unique and fun. I hope you like my map.

 

[Schamanu]

I'd like to ask you again, if you could upload your map to this site http://www.makemehost.com/suggest-map.php. I'd really like to play this in multiplayer. I'm not sure if they would allow me to upload the map as im not the author.

 

[Radicool]

I'd like to ask you again, if you could upload your map to this site http://www.makemehost.com/suggest-map.php. I'd really like to play this in multiplayer. I'm not sure if they would allow me to upload the map as im not the author.

Yes I just uploaded it, however it must be approved. I'm unsure of how long the process will take. Thanks for your patience.

Edit: The map is now available on the website.

 

[Schamanu]

ok, thx alot, looking forward to play this in mp finally, i refined my sp strategy and i made it to the last 5 mins, hope to be able to win this in mp

 

[Vortballat]

nice 5/5.I was searching for a similar game to play with my big brother

 

[WaterKnight]

The terrain is too small for the possible amount of players. Thus, you have hardly space to dodge. The difficulty curve needs to be adjusted. No matter if Normal or Overmind, it starts too easy and later on you get overwhelmed/cannot avoid destruction once there is a crack in the defense. Like in a lot of old tds, there is no way to make a comeback, which is also due to a lack in flexibility. Implement more hero skill shots, especially on higher levels, add an option to regain mana/life without medic like a fountain you need to run to and insert break/down times like with boss waves. As I recall, Vespene Gas does not have a functionality at the moment and the minerals income is quite unsteady. Grant minerals/sec and distribute the loot of enemies. In general, add more content and rebuildability.

 

[FullVisor]

bad terrain... but so fun to playing this map.

 

[Radicool]

Firstly, I have added and modified current screenshots of the map.

Secondly, thanks to Waterknight for detailed feedback.

Like in a lot of old tds, there is no way to make a comeback, which is also due to a lack in flexibility.

I agree. I tried reducing build time of buildings and distributing tanking capabilities to firebats, however the efforts are still failing. I'll look into it some more.

add an option to regain mana/life without medic like a fountain

I implemented a Medpack item. I didn't want a fountain because everyone would camp around it. I disliked that idea, however, I agree, healing HP/MP possibilities is still limited.

you need to run to and insert break/down times like with boss waves

Currently, they do come in waves. However, I dislike the cliché style of having time between waves. So I squished the waves together and added periodic zerglings in between them to make the game more fast paced a continuous defending style.

As I recall, Vespene Gas does not have a functionality at the moment

Vespene gas was initially intended to act as a mere tool to restrict upgrades and units to delay their production, however it proves to be a failure. I agree it could be better used as a game mechanic rather than a restriction. I'll look into reworking it.

and the minerals income is quite unsteady. Grant minerals/sec and distribute the loot of enemies.

Minerals actually are rewarded on the starts of waves. This income is however incognito and unclear. I'll think of a solution.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[WaterKnight]

I implemented a Medpack item. I didn't want a fountain because everyone would camp around it. I disliked that idea, however, I agree, healing HP/MP possibilities is still limited.

That idea was from another map we played that day. The point was that the fountain is located outside of the area you can/should effectively defend, so the defense is being weakened while recovering.

Currently, they do come in waves. However, I dislike the cliché style of having time between waves. So I squished the waves together and added periodic zerglings in between them to make the game more fast paced a continuous defending style.

The zergs are okay but if you cannot deal with the wave in time, the next one will come early/overlap and crush you. There is no need to have a break between each one. I like it to have a few waves + a boss ending the stage. You usually reward the players then or add new stuff, so they get busy preparing for the next chapter.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Sorry for the late reply, and I'm also just passing by.

you spelled *Defense* wrong. It has no C in it.

 

[WaterKnight]

you spelled *Defense* wrong. It has no C in it.

Defence is the British variant.

 

[Radicool]

you spelled *Defense* wrong. It has no C in it.

I'm Australian and yes I spelt it right in my country

 

[Rimecaller]

Cool Game though alot of bugs and game play problems-
1)all tomes have Starcrafty descriptions only tome of knowledge doesn't
2)bunker cost Pop?!??!?!?!?!
3)Upkeep- Raidcool-100% Low Upkeep 70% Raidcool- 40% Low upkeep wtf?!?!
4)bunker sounds like Orc Burrows!
5) Zerg decays animation pops up after it disappears
6) Delete Unit Passage Bounds!
7)Auto Turrets are Weak! no really they stink..
8)Siege Tanks have a very low Armor! too low (lower than the Auto Turrets)
9) Put the Armory in the Base!!!!!!
10) Improve Auto Turret's model it hurts looking at!
Thats kinda all of the Bugs i found try to make more units and more time between waves anything else is Great ! 3\5 continue creating cool Starwarcraft maps! you have talent! +rep

 

[Radicool]

Thanks for playing and reviewing Rimecaller. Feedback is always appreciated.

Reply

1)all tomes have Starcrafty descriptions only tome of knowledge doesn't

I'll look into this. Thanks.

2)bunker cost Pop?!??!?!?!?!

The Bunker acts as a very durable wall which attracts aggro from Zerg. Very useful structure and powerful, so it makes sense it is expensive.

3)Upkeep- Raidcool-100% Low Upkeep 70% Raidcool- 40% Low upkeep wtf?!?!

The Upkeep system serves no purpose in this game. The description is simply a means of putting my name inside the game. I might polish it later.

4)bunker sounds like Orc Burrows!

I'll work on a bunker sound.

5) Zerg decays animation pops up after it disappears

This is not a simple fix. Unfortunately have to put up with it.

6) Delete Unit Passage Bounds!

I have thought about this, and adding quests to do outside of the base. Not sure whether such quests are viable due to the Zerg's relentless pursuit. I'll think about this.

8)Siege Tanks have a very low Armor! too low (lower than the Auto Turrets)

I agree. I should make the tanks much more durable outside of Siege mode. However, the tanks in Siege mode are suppose to be vulnerable.

9) Put the Armory in the Base!!!!!!

I've thought about all players sharing the same armory like a shop. Will think if a system is possible. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about that.

 

[WaterKnight]

V 33 - New Preview Image
- Tweaked sound levels
- Added new models, sounds and icons.
- Modified how Players earn Vespene Gas
- Added Zerg Overlord unit.
- Balance changes

Vespene Gas is now earned by killing Overlords. When/where do these spawn? At least not before the scissors mammots. And until then you can hardly develop anything respectively rebuild because almost everything costs lots of Vespene Gas.

The difficulty balance is not good. First of all, it does not seem to scale with the player number. Second, it starts off far too easy. You cannot do much within the first few minutes and you get bored by monotonous babysitting of your entrance. As soon as new monsters spawn, it gets a lot tougher and the loss of mercs/structures snowballs down hard because you are steadily confronted by waves you cannot withstand without getting more and more permanently damaged. There is no break time to rebuild/revive/heal up and the resources you have spent are easily gone for good. No chance for a comeback.

Moreover so because the games repeat themselves quite linear. As a support medic at least you miss an option to restore your mana in late game and if you bind the minerals gain to killing, ofc that results in support players having less of the cake.

The enemy units do not engage civillians or players by themselves, they just execute an attack/move order to the center of the map. If you move the civs to an edge of the base and do not surround them with aggravating defenders, they are not paid attention to. The zerg units even return to their spawn location in case they do not find anything in the middle. Also give burrows the ability to accomodate civs.

The supply is fast consumed to the point that sometimes players would not know what to effectively do with their resources anymore. And what do you expect the user to do in order to maximize the defense/troop? Kill off one's own units and discard the spent money, so you can replace your marines by a tank?

In general increase the longevity of things. Make the enemies slower/those fast weaker. It's not good that you lose your 200 minerals merc within a second of inadvertency/lag although it could have easily been rescued. There is not much micro included where you can make a point as the player anyway. Nor should reviving heroes instantly collapse again, due to zergs that have surrounded the center before the hero can perform any action. Nor should the game be over without you seeing the last thread getting cut, the civillians beating the dust. There is no reason to give them only two attacks worth of hitpoints because they will eventually meet their maker anyway without defending players. The defeat should be conceivable with good overview.

 

[Radicool]

Thanks Waterknight. I really appreicate your feedback. It's detailed and highlights the main issues of the map. My response is kind of long but feel free to read

Response

Overlords. When/where do these spawn?

At the corners of the map. They are designed to tactically drop enemy Zerg in the back of your base (depending on where your base is). My testing shows the system is working.

At least not before the scissors mammots.

Yes. In version 33, they spawn on wave 8 which is before the Ultralisks which are wave 12. I agree they should come earlier. The next patch will address this.

And until then you can hardly develop anything respectively rebuild because almost everything costs lots of Vespene Gas.

Earlier Overlords should solve this. Don't forget version 33 removed Gas costs on upgrades. That helps significantly.

The difficulty balance is not good. First of all, it does not seem to scale with the player number.

It does. The scaling however isn't aimed very much at making it easier for one player, but rather harder when you have a full house. This game is geared towards co-operative play, not solo play. However, I might make some improvements so solo players have a chance.

Second, it starts off far too easy. You cannot do much within the first few minutes and you get bored by monotonous babysitting of your entrance. As soon as new monsters spawn, it gets a lot tougher and the loss of mercs/structures snowballs down hard because you are steadily confronted by waves you cannot withstand without getting more and more permanently damaged. There is no break time to rebuild/revive/heal up and the resources you have spent are easily gone for good. No chance for a comeback.

Version 33 did review some build times on structures. I'm currently working on spacing between waves. It should cut down on spare time at the beginning but add more late game. This should give players breathing time and a chance to rebuild.

The enemy units do not engage civillians or players by themselves, they just execute an attack/move order to the center of the map. If you move the civs to an edge of the base and do not surround them with aggravating defenders, they are not paid attention to. The zerg units even return to their spawn location in case they do not find anything in the middle. Also give burrows the ability to accommodate civs.

Your half right. Zerg initially move towards the center to ensure Zerg all enter the base through the right entrances and so players get even shares of the kills. However there are triggers which prevent the safety of hiding civilians. If you have no units to attract the Zerg's "agrgro" then they will seek out civilians within a few seconds. This is how I wanted the system to work. Zerg behavior is a little buggy in the sense that they move back to spawn points which I cant seem to fix. However, they will within seconds seek out civilians regardless. So theoretically you can move civilians away from your units and they CAN stay safe, but if you whole base and units die, then Zerg will begin to seek out civilians. This is so because I didn't want players to worry too much about civilians, but rather themselves.

The supply is fast consumed to the point that sometimes players would not know what to effectively do with their resources anymore. And what do you expect the user to do in order to maximize the defense/troop? Kill off one's own units and discard the spent money, so you can replace your marines by a tank?

Supply isn't everything. Repairing costs money. There are tomes, consumable items and upgrades. If you haven't looked into buying Spider Mines, Grenades or upgrades, then good luck ever winning this game. I am not designing away from such dependency on these things as I wanted a broader spectrum of ways to spend money than just buying units and structures. From my experience (in co-op games) I haven't had a problem with too much money. Solo play could introduce excess money, as stated above I might look into improved solo play.

In general increase the longevity of things....It's not good that you lose your 200 minerals merc within a second of inadvertency/lag although it could have easily been rescued.

Each unit are designed to fulfill a role. Marines simply cannot survive by themselves, and so they should not be by themselves. Firebats (especially with upgrades) can be very durable. The next patch is giving Siege Tanks (in Normal Mode) a big durability buff. Place these units in front of your marines somewhere where the Zerg are bottlenecked.

There is not much micro included where you can make a point as the player anyway.

I agree but I'm not sure how to go about this without drastically changing the game. I'll think about this in later patches.

Nor should reviving heroes instantly collapse again, due to zergs that have surrounded the center before the hero can perform any action.

Yes your 100% right, the next patch will solve this. Heroes gain temporary invulnerability once revived allowing them to safely move away from Zerg.

Nor should the game be over without you seeing the last thread getting cut, the civillians beating the dust....The defeat should be conceivable with good overview.

This is a good idea. The current defeat cinematic is a little confusing and dull. I'll definately look into this to make the defeat cinematic clearer and more interesting.

There is no reason to give them only two attacks worth of hitpoints because they will eventually meet their maker anyway without defending players.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying the civillians should be more durable? Why?

 

[WaterKnight]

Yes. In version 33, they spawn on wave 8 which is before the Ultralisks which are wave 12. I agree they should come earlier. The next patch has already addressed this.

Well I tested it in singleplayer as well but maybe I missed them because they also immediately retreated after landing their carriage on an edge of the base. Which will make it difficult/random to get their bounty. I suggest to make the outer areas walkable too, so the players can collect some stuff there like mineral crystals, tomes, air drops or find Overlords for Vespene Gas. Currently you hardly have time for this but I do not think you should make the game symmetric either. You could implement mini bosses/champions for example that enter from random directions in order to make the players concentrate their efforts at this spot for some time. At the moment, the players can play relatively independent from each other, as long as everyone properly guards their entrance. One or two players could take the role of temporarily going outside to collect resources. That would be similar to jungling.

Earlier Overlords should solve this. Don't forget version 33 removed Gas costs on upgrades. That helps significantly.

Indeed I have not seen this. Upgrades are usually for the late game but since you have mixed hero-only effects herein and you kinda force the player to buy part of them by not providing Vespene Gas, I guess that's okay. The player has to decide which upgrade to go.

It does. The scaling however isn't aimed very much at making it easier for one player, but rather harder when you have a full house. This game is geared towards co-operative play, not solo play. However, I might make some improvements so solo players have a chance.

I did not mean to say that you have to actively turn the game easier for less players. You may even want to pose yourself a challenge by trying the same with less. But the problem is that you often do not have a full house and therefore need some options to adjust the difficulty and there should be a guidance what amount of players each mode is geared for. Moreover I mentioned above that you do not get the least clue from early game about what direction it takes difficulty-wise.

If you have no units to attract the Zerg's "agrgro" then they will seek out civilians within a few seconds.

Then this does not work perfectly because I tested it in singleplayer before and a couple of civillians survived all the rounds until an Overlord dropped of some units near them.

Supply isn't everything. Repairing costs money. There are tomes, consumable items and upgrades. If you haven't looked into buying Spider Mines, Grenades or upgrades, then good luck ever winning this game.

Workers require supply, too, which I suggest to remove. Yes, there are consumables and tomes that help you to dispose your money and it's certainly no mistake to promote different assets the player has to take advantage of in order to win the game. While you are not in the position that those consumables are advantageous though - and they have cooldown and take an inventory slot too - you would rather spend your minerals somewhere else. I do not think that a supply limit is bad but with the workers and structures taking their share, you do get in the situation where you restrict yourself from reorganizing your formation. How about a selling feature and/or you can "upgrade" your units into another one for part of the original price, so you do not have to completely waste the minerals value the unit carries on itself? Also if you take away the SCV's costs, reduce the base supply limit a bit and instead introduce another upgrade for maybe three additional supply.

Each unit are designed to fulfill a role. Marines simply cannot survive by themselves, and so they should not be by themselves. Firebats (especially with upgrades) can be very durable. The next patch is giving Siege Tanks (in Normal Mode) a big durability buff. Place these units in front of your marines somewhere where the Zerg are bottlenecked.

Of course you should not tank with marines. But do not make it so extreme either that everything dies within a second once that rule is broken. Else it would be like in Troll vs Elves: The troll either cannot enter your base and does not make a point or he gets through and everything is done for. I just meant to slow things down, which should also prove useful in the application of micro.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying the civillians should be more durable? Why?

Yes. You would not expect unarmored civillians to be more sturdy than soldiers. However, they are the object of defending here, do not respawn and there are not as many as to make them seem a continuous entity. My point is: If you do not directly look at them, they may die without you noticing, which is why sudden and in any way unspectacular defeats occur and there is no use to rush to their rescue once they are under attack. Especially in closed fights they can fall victim to confusing collateral damage. Even if your team is wiped out, defenses usually provide some remaining time or a passive last mean of defense you are guaranteed and which gives opportunity for a comeback.

 

[Radicool]

Well I tested it in singleplayer as well but maybe I missed them because they also immediately retreated after landing their carriage on an edge of the base. Which will make it difficult/random to get their bounty.

This is typical Overlord behavior in Starcraft. It is an interesting mechanic which I have replicated. I feel its good to display a non hostile submissive Zerg unit to contrast with the other Zerg units to create enemy diversity. Additionally it makes you keep your eyes peeled for incoming Overlords. Missing them and hence missing the gas bounty can have a big impact on the game. I feel Overlords are in a good place.

I might consider removing the no bounds area to allow players to hunt for Overlords or something.

 

[WaterKnight]

Additionally it makes you keep your eyes peeled for incoming Overlords. Missing them and hence missing the gas bounty can have a big impact on the game. I feel Overlords are in a good place.

Even if you see them, they retreat fast enough that you are forced to cover the whole borders of the base with defenders that can shoot them down beforehand. Thus they also have to have low life, which may cause them to die before they enter the base, displacing/denying the carriage completely. I do not say that you should model them as attackers nor that you should not include diversity but everything has to be accessable. Particularly because the Vespene Gas is so important (there should be a secondary, minor inflow anyway), and it's directly team-shared, you should aim to include more of the team there -> make the Overlords fly through the base and grant them according hitpoints.

 

[Radicool]

Slow yet needed update. Version 35 released with new screenshots. See changelog.

Even if you see them, they retreat fast enough that you are forced to cover the whole borders of the base with defenders that can shoot them down beforehand...Particularly because the Vespene Gas is so important

I agree. I have redesigned the Overlord's behaviour and mechanics to ensure players are able to kill the Overlords an earn Vespene Gas. Overlords now remain on the corners of the base and periodically unload Zerg until killed. Vision and minimap signals over the Overlord is gained to help players quickly identify their location. Overall difficulty and importance of killing Overlords has been increased. See how it plays out.

Edit: Version 36 released. Fixed a major bug where Overlords kept spawning unfrozen units during cinematics. See changelog for all changes.

 

[Glass Golem]

I played this just by myself, and I noted a couple of problems:

1̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶v̶e̶r̶l̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶s̶p̶a̶w̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶t̶o̶m̶ ̶l̶e̶f̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶n̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶;̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶k̶i̶l̶l̶i̶ng̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶e̶(̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶)̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶k̶i̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶d̶u̶l̶l̶. OK, they spawned at different points... unfortunately, they got even harder to kill in addition to forcing me to divide my forces even further. Can you make it so they don't spawn troops quite as often? they are literally spawning as soon as I kill the last spawn.

2̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶i̶g̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶e̶l̶e̶p̶o̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶o̶m̶m̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶C̶e̶n̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶c̶̶̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶s̶̶̶i̶̶̶s̶̶̶t̶̶̶e̶̶̶n̶̶̶t̶̶̶l̶̶̶y̶ ̶ ̶t̶e̶l̶e̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶Z̶e̶r̶g̶ ̶d̶i̶r̶e̶c̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶C̶,̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶e̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶y̶p̶a̶s̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶e̶n̶s̶e̶s̶. Didn't really see it this time, but I think a few still got teleported; might want to look into that.

3. The path-finding needs work - walling off an entrance caused the bulk of the Zerg go to a different entrance, forcing me build even more defenses there(and I need most of my food for that one entrance).

4. SCVs don't auto repair unless they are right next to what they are repairing(sometimes not even then); you might want to increase the target aquesition range by 100-200(or to whatever it is for workers).



Some balancing notes/suggestions:

1. Units are all painfully slow, making any attempt at a "mobile defense" basically impossible - to give you an idea, by the time my units had moved from the front line to the overlord, it had made 2-3 drops.

2. The Marine and SCV are too fragile for the amount you're paying for them; ether make them more durable or lower their cost so that losing them and replacing them is somewhat viable.

3. Unit costs are too similar; all the combat units and the Auto-Turret require two overlord kills to get, but their combat capabilities are wildly different - for example, the Firebat can stand on his own, but the Marine is borderline useless outside a bunker due to his fragility. Sharply reducing the Marines vespine cost in particular(to the point at which I can get a least one, maybe 2-3 for one overlord kill) would help diversify the costs; and make make overlord kills more exciting(each time I kill one, I can get stuff as a result, instead of waiting for the next kill).

4. Food costs are heavily homogenized as well, contributing to a quick filling food cap; a possible spread you could use is SCV-1, Marine-2, Firebat-2, Siege Tank-4/6, Auto Turret-1/2, Bunker-0/2/4. You would probably need to increase your food caps to make this viable, and adjust costs appropriately.

5. The Auto Turret and Marine both need to be Upgraded before they become truly viable in combat, and the upgrades are are a little on the cheap side - I don't know about you, but in most defense games I've played, upgrades are expensive(talking around 10 or 20 times the cost of a basic defender), and are more for fighting mid-late game enemies, not something you get after wave 2 or 3. Also, having more then one level of an upgrade, for at least some of them, might help instil a sense of progression.

5.5. I lost six minutes away from the evac with full upgrades and maxed out food because there were just too many Zerg knocking on my door. Could you make the food upgrade more then a just a Siege Tank, or at least add some more levels to it? Also, you don't need to make it so you can fairly easily get all the upgrades in one game; most survival games I've played make that nigh impossible, generally to force you to make choices on how to defend yourself.

6. I̶ ̶n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶v̶e̶r̶l̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶, it's hard to tell where the Zerg are on the mini-map, period. Maybe find a way to change the Zerg's color on the mini-map to something other then brown(maybe by changing how the mini-map shows friend/foe?),̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶h̶a̶p̶s̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶i̶t̶t̶l̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶f̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶l̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶i̶n̶g̶. Better, but it's still hard to beat the Overlords late in the game.

7. While I admire that you don't want to have obvious waves, there is literally no down time in this game - I have no time to bring my hero back to heal up between fights as I'm getting constantly swarmed by Ultralisks(and I have no food to spare, ether). You could use a Day/Night cycle to create a "downtime" of sorts: during the Day, Zerg attacks are light and sporadic, and at night they bear down on you full force.

8. The Medic's autocast Heal ability is far too weak to be viable in combat; if it healed about, say, double what it currently heals(and perhaps double what it heals when upgraded), it might make her feel more useful as a healer.

9. The Firebat doesn't deal splash damage, was that intentional? If so, it's fine, but you might want to raise his damage a tiny bit so he 2-shot Zerglings. Also, the Siege Tank changes modes really fast, but that's not really a problem.




All and all, I really want to like this map - it's very well made, and I dig the setup - but it's pretty imbalanced right now, and losing the tiny number of troops I have is both too easy and too painful. I hope that my suggestions have inspired you to improve this map.

Edit: Crap, this is V.35! I'll get back to you.

Edit the second: OK, played a little V.36, most of my points remain the same, but a couple of my points were rendered moot/changed.

 

[Radicool]

Thanks GlassGolem for the review. I always appreciate feedback!

Response

I have only had the Overlord spawn in the bottom left corner of the base

I think there was something strange with Overlords in patch 35. Not sure why they acted like this, but I ended up completely reworking the system. Patch 36 has also added a new spawn location, so hopefully you'll get more variety.

The trigger that teleports you to the Command Center for leaving the base consistently teleported Zerg directly to the CC

Little shocked when you said this. I noticed something but knocked it off as coincidence. Looking over the code now I can see the error. Some Zerg are able to teleport to the center. The next patch will fix this.

The path-finding needs work - walling off an entrance caused the bulk of the Zerg go to a different entrance

I'm aware this can happen but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm not too savvy with AI systems. I suggest you leave a small gap in your wall to prevent them doing this. I normally use my hero to fill that gap. I'll try to figure something out in the meantime.

Units are all painfully slow, making any attempt at a "mobile defense" basically impossible

I've wanted to address this for a while now but have been busy on other things. It's not simply a matter of decreasing Zerg speed or increasing Marine speed because it will throw off the balance. I have plans for a future patch to bring new Zerg mechanics which will allow me to slow them down and introduce a new "mobile defence" style to the game.

Food costs are heavily homogenized as well

I agree. I'll think about a solution.

I don't know about you, but in most defense games I've played, upgrades are expensive(talking around 10 or 20 times the cost of a basic defender), and are more for fighting mid-late game enemies, not something you get after wave 2 or 3. Also, having more then one level of an upgrade, for at least some of them, might help instil a sense of progression.

This is a good idea. I'll look into this.

I never know when the Overlord appears

Patch 36 has addressed this. The minimap pings yellow whenever an Overlord unloads.

While I admire that you don't want to have obvious waves, there is literally no down time in this game

People seem to persuade me to make a change to how waves come. I half agree because I know it's hard to shop and breath with the current system. I'll think about a solution. I do like the day/night cycle idea.

The Medic's autocast Heal ability is far too weak to be viable in combat; if it healed about, say, double what it currently heals(and perhaps double what it heals when upgraded), it might make her feel more useful as a healer.

I have plans to rework some of the heroes abilities. The Medic is my top priority here.

The Firebat doesn't deal splash damage, was that intentional?

He does. The AOE is small to mainly affect Zerg and Hydralisk clusters so the splash is negible on larger units. The trouble with splash is that it's very effective in this map so I have to be careful not to overpower units with splash attacks. I'll take another look at the Firebat to see if changes need to be made.

Thanks again for reviewing

 

[Glass Golem]

You're welcome.

Sorry about posting and then editing my post; I kind of panicked when I realized you'd posted a new version like an hour before I'd finished playing with the version I had.

I might have more to say later, but it's late. 'Night.

 

[WaterKnight]

Heal and Holy Light of the Medic only differ in values. Why not give one a secondary effect? Would have suggested to make one AoE but you already have Healing Wave. I also always struggled with the usability of the ultimate because you practically have to wait and time simultaneous deaths and mana/cd until it's worthwhile to cast. Maybe add an invulnerability buff for a few seconds?

 

[Radicool]

Patch 37 has been released.

Heal and Holy Light of the Medic only differ in values. Why not give one a secondary effect?

I have changed many abilities among the classes in patch 37.

 

[A]mun]

Nice map, just beat it with a friend on normal mode.

We used Goliath and Scv heroes, was pretty easy and straight forward, but fun nonetheless. Decent use of custom icons/models/sounds, mainly from starcraft1&2.

Suggestions:

Make the Goliath mechanical, so it can be repaired by Scvs instead of medkits.
Enlarge the map a little if possible, then use the outer zones for explorative measures.

I'm pretty sure this mission served as inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A75CIkOYOU. So why not adapt and evolve it a little further?

 

[Radicool]

Thanks for playing and commenting A]mun

Response

We used Goliath and Scv heroes, was pretty easy and straight forward, but fun nonetheless.

I've made a lot of changes to Zerg spawns, mineral and supply costs. Difficulty has been thrown out of whack a little. Trying to rebalance and bring about new ways to challenge the players.

Enlarge the map a little if possible, then use the outer zones for explorative measures.

I have thought about this many times. It will be tricky to implement for various reasons. I'll take the idea onboard.

I'm pretty sure this mission served as inspiration:

I remember playing Starcraft with a friend when I was really young. Playing a meele game, one of us would lift off and move to the other's base. Use supply depots as walls and clusters siege tanks together and see how long we could hold off the Zerg computers before they overran us, haha. Ahh...good old days

 

[Radicool]

Version 38 released with a trailer. Big update introducing new Terran and Zerg units, better music and some important balance and performance fixes.

 

[Glass Golem]

OK, I've played some of v.38 by myself.


Notable Problems:
1. If an Overlord is killed by a Missile Turret, you don't get any gas. Often, an Overlord attacked by a Missile Turret will just vanish.

2. Ultralisks and Brutalisks have the same Collision Size as Zerglings, allowing them to easily squeeze past my hero and bunker to attack my SCV.

3. The SCV Hero's "pocket factory" has no rally point, making it hard to get the marines it spawns to fight anywhere other then where they spawn.

Balance Notes:
1. Bunkers are useless. I'm sorry, they are: They're the most expensive unit/structure in the game with a high supply cost, less then amazing durability, and are completely dependent on Marines and Firebats to inflict damage. I found building 5 Auto Turrets or even a Firebat and 2 Marines to be not only cheaper, but also more effective. Maybe if if it weren't so easy for big Zerg slip by and kill the SCV, they'd be a little more viable, but they'd still probably be inferior to the other methods, as it is.

2. Gas costs vs. income means that if I lose more then 2-3 units, I've pretty much lost the game. I don't know if that's a side effect of me only losing turrets in the last 5 minutes of the game, but it basically means that if I lose anything other then SCVs, I should pretty much just start over.

3. Overlords are pretty much impossible for a Hero to defeat, mostly because the Zerg they spawn are timed spawn a new wave as soon as the last wave dies. If there were a few extra seconds between waves, they wouldn't be quite as overpowering. Actually, they're pretty much unstoppable if they get more then 2 waves down(especially late game).

4. The waves at the 4-3 minute marks are basically impossible for one player to defeat. I don't know if that was intentional, but even with full upgrades and maxed out supply, I almost always get slaughtered. (the only time I didn't was when I put Auto Turrets right where the Overlord comes in)

5. The Goliath's Cluster Missiles and and especially Orbital Strike feel kind of underpowered; Granted, that might be because I keep using them on big Zerg, but still. Orbital Strike in particular might benefit from a longer Stun effect.

Miscellaneous:
1. I'd just like to point out that you have made the Marine, Firebat, and Siege Tank's Mineral, Gas, and Supply Costs distressingly similar. The Marine and Firebat I can understand, but they're both very close in cost and supply to the Siege Tank? It's not bad, but it is a little odd.

2. The Goliath can't attack air? OK, he's a little more durable then I remember, and his laser can hit air, but it's still a bit weird for me. Maybe you could swap out the "Turret Summon" for a Critical Strike that only hits air with a 100% chance to hit and adds - I don't know - 25-50% more damage? Not that I'm saying the "Turret Summon" is weak; far from it, it's actually pretty powerful. (Maybe I'm just used to the Goliath being a potent Anti-Air unit in Starcraft)

3. You can probably get away with lowering the Bunkers Supply cost now. Maybe.

Good Stuff:
1. Marines and Firebats are pretty strong now - I can get by using almost nothing but them (as long as I'm playing Medic).

2. Missile Turrets are great. Just fix the Gas Denial, and they'll be very useful.

3. Corruptors are an excellent enemy - their Blinding Clouds really break up my defenses, forcing me to put more thought and effort into defense.

4. I can breathe between waves now, but I have to pay attention timing. Excellent.

5. Speaking of breath, the Supply Cap doesn't quite so constraining now. Which is funny, because I did feel constrained in v.37, where the Cap upgrades each gave only one less Supply. Amazing what a difference that can make.

With the exception of a a few glaring points, this map feels almost complete now; mostly just needs balancing. Good work.

 

[Radicool]

Thanks for taking the time to review again Golem.

1. If an Overlord is killed by a Missile Turret, you don't get any gas. Often, an Overlord attacked by a Missile Turret will just vanish.
2. Ultralisks and Brutalisks have the same Collision Size as Zerglings, allowing them to easily squeeze past my hero and bunker to attack my SCV.
3. The SCV Hero's "pocket factory" has no rally point, making it hard to get the marines it spawns to fight anywhere other then where they spawn.

I'll look into fixing/changing these points.

1. Bunkers are useless

Perhaps I could increase the damage output of unit's in the bunker by 50%-75% or something to encourage players to fill up the bunkers. I think this idea is pretty cool.

2. Gas costs vs. income means that if I lose more then 2-3 units, I've pretty much lost the game.

This is probably partly related to not getting your gas from Overlords. I'll look over this.

4. The waves at the 4-3 minute marks are basically impossible for one player to defeat.

It certainly does. I'll review the difficulty curve.

2. The Goliath can't attack air?

I noticed this. It's a silly mistake I made. He is suppose to attack air. I'll fix it.

 

[Glass Golem]

Oh! I almost forgot!

There's currently no good way to destroy your own structures to make way for new ones. While you could add a "sell" mechanic(which I imagine you don't want to add), you could also give the SCV the Demolish ability so it can quickly tear down buildings you don't want anymore. Just a thought.

 

[Kibougamine]

Even though i'm more into Medieval-like maps, futuristic maps is not that bad.