Terrain Editor Features!

[thedeathunterxx]

for the RAISE tool, i think that instead of extending its height to 90 degrees, that it should go past it... and make a cliff that looks like this :

X
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**************
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*******
*******
*******
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[Kwah]

That's not just changing the Z my friend.

 

[Eleandor]

That'll most certainly screw up the texturing & shadowing, and would require some serious engineering. If it's implementable in the first place, you won't be able to use it in playable maps.

 

[Kwah]

And it requires you to move the x/y coords of the map grid as well, not something that I really want to get into.

 

[AKAIMAX]

If Chuck Norris would lend us his 1337 powers we could make stackable maps on top of eachother, like with different floors, which would be awesome for buildings!! : o (Maybe he could solve the model-dissapear-issue-with-heigh-z-value too!)

Actually, thats possible to do but you need to trigger it.

 

[~Void~]

Actually, thats possible to do but you need to trigger it.

And it's impossible to make a system like that which is MUI/MPI in WC3. It would only work for one unit at a time (excluding neutral creeps and shit that just stand there). Although I guess you could do some system with fly heights, but that would be painful and it would have extreme restrictions since you can't use a region detect for the upper level because it would detect the lower level, so you would need to put two regions on the stairs going up to the upper level, one for going up and one for going down.

 

[AKAIMAX]

No, you use reigons and you check if the units flying height is 0 in that reigon so then you could raise him higher. It was done by Toadcop in Tcx. Its possible but complicated.

 

[~Void~]

Isn't TCX made from a camera angle where everything is turned on its side? So he uses cliffs as platforms and sideways units?

 

[AKAIMAX]

No. He used the magical bridge or some kind of doodad for the bridge and units can walk over it and beneath it without problems.

 

[Hawkwing]

I'd like to be able to modify the terrain on all three axises.

 

[~Void~]

I'd like to be able to modify the terrain on all three axises.

Axes?

And yeah, that would be a really cool idea, although I'm not sure WC3's engine could support it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it can't, because I think it converts the terrain you make in the editor to some kind of heightmap data and then when you load the map in WC3 it reads that.

I'm not even sure next-gen games have 3D heightmaps.

 

[Kwah]

It'd also be a huge issue if you are using in-game terrain deformations, and it uses the terrain as a reference for various things

It'd just be massively screwed up. Still, thanks.

 

[Eleandor]

I'm not even sure next-gen games have 3D heightmaps.

I doubt it. Memory overhead would be way too large.

 

[thedeathunterxx]

World of warcraft defenitly uses multiple height maps...

flying mounts ? it can go anywhere, X Y Z.

and i understand that type of cliff is impossible to make, but its definetly done in most games.i doubt WC3 can handle it anyway.

 

[~Void~]

Yeah, but that's not a height map, that's just letting you alter your Z value with certain controls. You can do that in WC3 too.

Multiple heightmaps would be extremely difficult to pull off.

 

[Kwah]

World of warcraft defenitly uses multiple height maps...

flying mounts ? it can go anywhere, X Y Z.

. . .

*facepalm*

 

[Eleandor]

 

[~Void~]

World of warcraft defenitly uses multiple height maps...

flying mounts ? it can go anywhere, X Y Z.

and i understand that type of cliff is impossible to make, but its definetly done in most games.i doubt WC3 can handle it anyway.

Yeah, it's done with objects (doodads).

 

[thedeathunterxx]

* rubs really red forehead *

lol i forgot what i was talking about X_X lol

 

[Ham Ham]

Ability to make a dungeon wich your units could enter it, and still walk over the cliff over it ^^. Same for bridges, you could both walk over them, and under them.

 

[~Void~]

Well that would be absolutely wonderful, but I'm not sure that's possible, and if it is, it would screw up acquisition ranges so badly. You'd find yourself walking around in the city while getting shot at through the ground by the final boss of the dungeon below.

 

[a7xpwns3]

One question-

Anybody up for programming this project if it is actually ever going to become more than a thought?

 

[AKAIMAX]

Whats the point if sc2 is coming out?

 

[Hawkwing]

You realize the whole idea of this is "a hypothetical World Editor."

Whats the point if sc2 is coming out?

That too.

 

[a7xpwns3]

Yes, I do.

That's why I said "If this ever becomes more than just a thought"

 

[Hawkwing]

Which I doubt it will. Highly.

 

[Eleandor]

If I were to make such a thing (which I certainly plan to do over the summer), what would you want in it? What should be different from the WE and what should be the same/similar?

So when are you starting?

 

[AKAIMAX]

So when are you starting?

120 degree cliffs
Higher cliffs than 9000 or lower than -9000 by a lot(Raised Terrain)
Pathing were 2 units can be right above each other and different floors but not attack each other unless no destructible is in the way
Blizzard Cliffs that can go above each other infinitly(or a high value)
More than one fog at once
Sky box to cover up the whole map

 

[Nbah]

Would it be possible to group some doodads, and make them into 1. So if I made a building out of a couple of doodads, I could select them and turn them into one, for easier movement, placement etc, or is it a massive idea of h4x?

 

[AKAIMAX]

And less lag ingame cause if you have one big doodad, there's less to load. Thats why WOW has so many building doodads instead of small doodads making up the buildings.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Wait a moment here... Hawk900, you want to make a brand new World Editor? for just creating cinematic type terrains, or for actual modding, and be able to play maps created using this new editor?

I'm not even sure next-gen games have 3D heightmaps.

There's an engine called the C4 Engine, allows for the creation of complete 3D terrains (from arches to caves and everything in between) using something similar to the raise/lower tool you find in the WE. I have had the privilege of using said engine, and it is awesome.

 

[Kwah]

So when are you starting?

Once I get around to it. This summer, is pretty much all I can say.

Wait a moment here... Hawk900, you want to make a brand new World Editor? for just creating cinematic type terrains, or for actual modding, and be able to play maps created using this new editor?

Both, certainly. Should be fun.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Umm, as much as i would love to be all supportive and whatnot, all i have to say is... ARE YOU SANE?

Seriously, when were you planning to put your life on hold to do all of this? Do you even know anything about the inner workings of the w3x file format, and what language are you planning on using?

 

[~Void~]

There's an engine called the C4 Engine, allows for the creation of complete 3D terrains (from arches to caves and everything in between) using something similar to the raise/lower tool you find in the WE. I have had the privilege of using said engine, and it is awesome.

Shit, really? Because the mathematics involved in making something like that would be EXTREMELY complicated o.o''

So, say if I were to make a hill in this engine, I could then make a tunnel through it without placing objects?

 

[AKAIMAX]

Yea. The math would be pretty hard to make but its not like one person made it.

 

[~Void~]

I'd imagine it would be easier if one person made it; it's very hard to collaborate with such complicated things involved.

 

[Kwah]

Umm, as much as i would love to be all supportive and whatnot, all i have to say is... ARE YOU SANE?

Seriously, when were you planning to put your life on hold to do all of this? Do you even know anything about the inner workings of the w3x file format, and what language are you planning on using?

1) I don't really have a life over the summer, and beyond that I have school, during which I don't do any work.
2) Yes, I do have some knowledge of the inner workings of the .w3x. Furthermore docs are available. I imagine that the format is going to be the smallest of issues.
3) Python. <3

EDIT: So basically. I have as much time as I could possibly want to finish this thing. My only time constraint is the release of Sc2.

My basic plan goes like this:
1) Make a basic terrain editor. Raise/Lower, ect/
2) Export this to a w3x.
3) Go back add features.
4) Export these as I make them.

 

[Ham Ham]

Well that would be absolutely wonderful, but I'm not sure that's possible, and if it is, it would screw up acquisition ranges so badly. You'd find yourself walking around in the city while getting shot at through the ground by the final boss of the dungeon below.

Not if you find a way to make units ignore acquisition from units in diferent levels. (unless they are targetable).

 

[Kwah]

Guys. This is a terrain editor, not adding massively new features to in-game play. It's designed as a tool to make modding easier, not to revelutionize the game. Hopefully, there will be things that the WE cannot do, but it's not going to be screwing around with the aquisition range of units.

 

[AKAIMAX]

120 degree cliffs
Higher cliffs than 9000 or lower than -9000 by a lot(Raised Terrain)
Pathing were 2 units can be right above each other and different floors but not attack each other unless no destructible is in the way
Blizzard Cliffs that can go above each other infinitly(or a high value)
More than one fog at once
Sky box to cover up the whole map

Those stuff arent changing the WE completely or massively.

 

[Deathcom3s]

Shit, really? Because the mathematics involved in making something like that would be EXTREMELY complicated o.o''

So, say if I were to make a hill in this engine, I could then make a tunnel through it without placing objects?

Pshaw, easy sauce with C4...

I'll get you a screenie sometime.

Have fun Hawk900, because you haven't even finished that blender exporter and now you're working on a brand new terrain editor...

 

[Eleandor]

1) I don't really have a life over the summer, and beyond that I have school, during which I don't do any work.
2) Yes, I do have some knowledge of the inner workings of the .w3x. Furthermore docs are available. I imagine that the format is going to be the smallest of issues.
3) Python. <3

EDIT: So basically. I have as much time as I could possibly want to finish this thing. My only time constraint is the release of Sc2.

My basic plan goes like this:
1) Make a basic terrain editor. Raise/Lower, ect/
2) Export this to a w3x.
3) Go back add features.
4) Export these as I make them.

1 question: is this going to be a newgen add-on? I think a stand-alone editor just for terraining would be a bummer...

 

[syltman]

a editor that works like the Titan Quest editor except for triggers.

 

[Kwah]

Have fun Hawk900, because you haven't even finished that blender exporter and now you're working on a brand new terrain editor...

Death, you seem to be missing the point. I will have fun. That's why I'm doing it.

As to the Blender editor, I'll write a scratch one eventually. Trying to fix up WarBlender was rather a lost cause. I did manage to get the mesh imported though.

 

[Megafyr]

How about editing several maps at the time. : >

 

[Deathcom3s]

How about editing several maps at the time. : >

what good does that do?

 

[Megafyr]

For copying stuff and such.

 

[Kwah]

You . . . can.

If you open a new map, there is a tab called "Window" or some such. If you open this, you'll be able to switch between maps.

 

[Megafyr]

Why did I never notice? : | Thanks...

 

[Squidle]

Some things for the improved WE:

- Move every doodad the angle you want, because with you only can set the angle to 90 180 270 and 0...
- Previews how the camera's will act in-game.
- A "How To" or "Turorial" tab that you can see how to do it instead of asking people.
- More music files allowed. (such as .MDI etc.)
- A tab with "Latest Imports".