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SupCom: Icy Oasis (v21)

Submitted by N-a-z-g-u-l
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Supreme Commander is a Warcraft III map immitating the GamePlay of the original game Supreme Commander by THQ. To make the player feel the authenticity of such a great game, this map contains a very elaborated constant gravity based projectile system opening the possibilty of collision with terrain and shields, combined with a revolutional ressource system as seen in the original game. Besides that it creates the right ambience through the use of original game music and imported game sounds making the map a whole new experience of playing Warcraft III. It even contains details such as crashing planes which deal damage to nearby units when colliding with the ground depending on their size. Aside from the amazing game engine nearly every unit known from the original game is included in this map. Land, air and marine units of all 3 tech-levels and an addional tech 4 level for experimental units such as the monkeylord or galactic colossus. All unit data is based on the original game and most of the units even have scaled values of the original units.

I have seen people loving this map from the first moment when they had watched the intro, however, the complexity of the map sometimes overtaxes impatient players. My recommendation is to get into the game after playing once or twice, because then exciting battles will arise.

Post Scriptum: I made this exaggerated description for fun, however, except for the euphoria all of the content is true.

It would be nice to see some of you posting feedback on this map, as it is just in its developing stage and exists for about a month now. Anyway, I cannot guarantee I will continue working on this for long.


There are several other terrains to download from http://supcom.btanks.net/

Keywords:
Supreme Commander, Future, Strategy, War, Projectile System, Ressource System
Contents

SupCom: Icy Oasis (v21) (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
12:55, 24th Aug 2008 Septimus: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/792566-post30.html
  1. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Lots of good stuff goin on here. I personally got Supreme commander and this map definately lives up to it. I rate very harshly, but I had to give a 5/5. This map is almost exactly like Supreme Commander.

    There is one thing I want to point out tho. It's very important. This map has 100% supreme commander feel to it, however, I have to say Supreme commander will NEVER live up to total annihilation.

    In SC, and your map, Tier 2 is a hell of a lot stronger than Tier 1 and Tier 3 is a hell of a lot stronger than Tier 2. Likewise, the cost is a hell of a lot higher for Tier 2 than Tier 1 and Tier 3 costs a hell of a lot more than Tier 2. This may be what they were looking for when they made SC, but personally I think this spells doom all over balancing and gameplay.

    I'm not saying change your map, cuz its great, I'm saying maybe its something to think about, maybe even remake Total Annihilation with the same trigs. With how it is, you need to build a ton of extractors and generators to get up a tier when I personally feel it would be better gameplay to make the costs and effect less extreme.


    Also, maybe more starting storage with ACU so that there is atleast some reason for having it.

    Anyways idk if any of this is making sense, I'm tired as heck right now, so this could all be gibberish xD
     
  2. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    After playing it a bit more, I'm come to realize how unbal some of it really was.

    What I"ve noticed:

    Cruiser: having great anti air and that 8k range with missiles is highly unbalanced. It fires across the map and you have no chance of taking it with air units.

    Tier 3 Bombers: I've seen 1 bomber take out an ACU in 1 or 2 hits, even while being protected by 2 SAMs. Nothing should be that powerful.

    Nuke: Possibly lengthen the build time slightly, its not highly unbalanced, but I think it would be nice if players had a little more heads up for anti nuke.

    Resource Bug??? I've noticed that even with a lack of resources you can build a Tier4 machine in pretty good time.

    There were a few other things but I forget, I'm going to keep playing and see.
     
  3. Sir.Laggalot

    Sir.Laggalot

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    Instead of adding nuke building time, let people know that the nuke building is going up, and shorten the anti nuke tower build time.
     
  4. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    I would agree with that, however, it's not how supreme commander is. With radar 3 it doesn't matter, if you don't see it coming its kind of your own fault. However, once you see it, you should have a good amount of time to build anti nuke.
     
  5. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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    New version uploaded, even if it still has the same version number etc... changes are:

    - mass fabricator values are now mixed from forged alliance and the standard supcom
    - nuke effect is updated a bit, and the damage circle grows over time, not damage to all units at the same time, but related to where they stand
    - probably some smaller bug fixes i dont remember
     
  6. Sir.Laggalot

    Sir.Laggalot

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    Yay, I'll check it out immediately
     
  7. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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  8. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    In the real game, an engineer tier 2 can build tier 1 buildings and tier 2, is there any chance we could see that? Also, Tier 2 engineers build tier 2 extractors. I'm not sure if you want to make it EXACTLY like the real game, but if u do, the map could use a little polish.
     
  9. 1st_acc

    1st_acc

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    this map is awesome but all it needs is the enginneers to help with building units like in the real game i give it 5/5!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. TKF

    TKF

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    That might be difficult, but it could be made like the super experimental units, those can be massed. I don't know if fabs also could kinda build outside that way too, but perhaps much work...

    I played with 6 players, and there was 1 thing i did greatly dislike, it lagged constantly and I had an average of 2fps.
     
  11. Septimus

    Septimus

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    Review
    Notice & Contact
    This map had been examined by Alexis Septimus.
    If you think this map review is not accurate or require another review, feel free to contact Alexis Septimus. But, map would only be review again for second time and also for the last time unless under certain circumstances. It would be selfish to request constantly a mod/admin to keep review your map as there is many other maps waiting for approval as well.

    However, if you still insist of another review after it had been review for second time. Feel free to contact other admin.

    To contact Alexis Septimus, please click this [​IMG]Visitor Message.


    Map Review
    1) Terrain - Horrible (1)
    2) Trigger - Excellent (5)
    3) Minor Error - Average (3)
    4) Major Error -
    5) Replay Value - Average (3)
    6) Fun factor/gameplay - Average (3)
    7) Use of imported material -
    8) Single player - Average (3)
    9) AI support -
    10) Camera -
    11) Originality -
    12) File Size - Excellent (5)
    13) Internet/LAN Friendly -
    14) Balancing -
    15) Packaging - Average (3)
    16) Credits - Excellent (5)
    17) Storyline -
    18) Theme -
    19) Protection - Excellent (5)
    20) Quality - Average (3)
    21) Description/Information/Detail - Average (3)
    22) Hiveworkshop rules & regulation - Excellent (5)
    23) Game Mode - Excellent (5)
    24) Difficulty -
    25) Unit Placement -

    Total Accumulation Point : 52/75 * 100 + (-6) (Review) = 63.33

    [+] -
    [!] -
    [-] - Bland terrain with tree, kill the joy of the game.
    [-] - Same hotkey error just like the other map.

    Review : It seems like the gameplay same with the previous map with just a different terrain. But it still have same problem like the Paradise version.

    Overall, I do not think it is ready to be recommend.

    Another -6 point for this map.



    Rating & Miscellaneous information
    Score - 63/100
    Rating - 3/5
    Condition - Average
    Status - Approve
    Review - 1


    Reminder
    The map might not be fully tested, if any user of the map found bug/error or anything else.
    Feel free to contact Alexis Septimus by clicking this [​IMG]Visitor Message.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  12. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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    thats probably your pc... i didnt have problems with lagg till now (athlon 64 3500+)
     
  13. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    That review is crap. A map based on an actual game shouldn't be devalued for flaws the actual game has, like the terrain in the actual game is very barren.

    Here's my review: [PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A REVIEWER OR ADMINISTRATOR]

    ••Terrain - 8/8 (Very similar to the actual game)
    ••Trigger - 9/10 (A little lag with some systems)
    ••Replay Value - 7/8 (Its fun to replay, but some gameplay flaws, reduce this value)
    ••Fun factor/gameplay - 6/9 (Gameplay is fun and faster than the game, but certain balancing issues devalue it.
    ••Use of imported material - 3/3
    ••Camera - 4.5/5 (first cam is perfect, second is a little far for me personally, third is also good)
    ••File Size - 6/6 (Very good size for a map like this)
    ••Internet/LAN Friendly - 7/9 (Some poeple's computers can't handle the graphics and the lag makes it hard to play)
    •• Balancing - 3/10 (This is the main problem, will explain later)
    ••Credits - 5/5
    ••Storyline - 3.5/4 (It's not necessary, but it would be nice to introduce the game a little and tell how to play)
    ••Quality - 8/9 (Considering what you have to work with, the game is fairly polished in aspects other than balance)
    ••Description/Information/Detail - 5/6 (Would be nice to see mass/energy yield in negatives also, so we know how far under we are when using too much)
    ••Game Modes - 6/8 (Would be nice to be able to modifiy some things, like starting mass/energy or putting on some of the MODs in the game like double resource yield)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total Score: 81/100 [PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT A REVIEWER OR ADMINISTRATOR], but I think this is a little more fair, especially when the reviewer left some spots blank, giving no score at all.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Ok as far as balance goes, I'm not sure if u took the real values from the game and put them into the map, but with the map sizes some ranges are very extreme and air units are extremely powerful. I think it's safe to assume you took the actual values from the game. I just played SupCom so I could review it more accurately, same map, and I noticd how much smaller your map was. Now, when it comes to warcraft 3, there is going to be a lot of new players every single game (Unless it becomes some huge hit like DotA). When everyone starts that close together and don't know how to play, people get angry and leave. They will probably judge the game on the little bit of gameplay they saw and never join one ever again.

    If the size of the map is going to be that much smaller, don't choose a map where people start next to each other as enemies. (And I noticed that if you select teams its all random anyways. Maybe if 2 allied players started together it would be fine).

    As far as air units go, I understand that bombers and fighters in the actual game attack once and soar past the target and circle around. Using such high values for damage is more balanced that way, but since yours do not, they cannot have such high damage. The game could use a lot of tweaking in that aspect.

    Things that have missiles and very high range, thats fine, but again the map needs to be larger then. On the paradise map, cruiers can fire anywhere on the map. On this one, they can fire more than half way across the map. There's almost nothing you can do. You can't send ground units to counter since its in water (and the missiles will probably kill your ground force before they can even get in range), air can't touch them because of the extreme anti air that ship also has, and so the only real option is by sea, which, if your opponent has enough subs protecting the cruisers, isn't a choice either.

    I'm sorry, but I cannot stress enough how much this affects how fun your map is. I've yet to see a game where people don't complain about the range or air units or other random OPed units because they have range.



    Suggestions: Alter the range or attack speed of the ranged units (cruiser/mobile rocket vehicle) so they either can't shell from range, or they can't do it as fast [I suggest doing a little of both]. Alter the damage on air units lowering them so they aren't so OP.
     
  14. hookah

    hookah

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    I agree with Magic.
    Septimus reviews are useless and crapy...
     
  15. Sir.Laggalot

    Sir.Laggalot

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    I have to disagree, Septimus' reviews can be very useful, but you need need to take them with a grain of salt.
     
  16. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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    i agree with the description thing, i first just wanted to test how far i could get to the real game

    this is something i disagree with.
    Complete unit list - Supreme Commander Wiki - a Wikia wiki
    ->
    UEF T2 Cruiser: Governor Class @ Supreme Commander Units Database

    Long Range Cruise Missile (Missile, Normal): 120.00 dps, range: 12 (244m) - 150 (2.93km),

    Paradise is 10km x 10km, the warcraft map is 23808 x 23808

    which means, cruiser can shoot 2,93km/10km in supreme commander = 29,3%
    23808*0,293 = 6975

    (interesting, the same way i calculated the ranges first, but got different results xD well now the curiser has a range of 8484, isnt muuuuch longer, but perhaps enough... i will rescale all ranges later then... probably the supcom wiki had some mistakes there)

    so you see, all ranges depend on the map size, should be balanced

    by the way, alpha 7 is 4 times bigger in real supcom, however, i think its ok for 10km x 10km, too.

    ah and by the way, as you can see, damage, hp etc values are also shown there, and that are the values i use (probbaly my rockets aim better than the on ein supcom?)

    yeah maybe, a scripted air movement would be nice here, or just doubled cooldown or something like that? however, when you know that air is strong, you can just build more anti air, it should balance itself ingame... but probably you are right... and an air movement system would cause even more lagg, so they would need more cooldown... later then

    i think i already explaned most of this

    well yes, the problem is, warcraft players ARE noobs, always^^

    i will scale down ranges by (1-6975/8484) = 17,79%, and increase bomber cooldowns by 50%-100%. (when i find time to do it)


    EDIT:

    recalculated the range thing:

    supreme commander map: 10240m * 10240m = 512sc * 512sc
    10240m, because later the maps are 81*81km (81920 would make sense then)
    512sc fits perfectly, when checking it with the range of the cruiser, and it is a possible number

    warcraft map: 24576wc * 24576wc (including the black border), 23808wc * 23808wc (excluding the black border)
    now, the minimap captured from supreme commander used as a heightmap for warcraft III, is the whole map in wc3, so it would make sense to use the size including the black border:

    24576wc = 10,24km = 512sc
    1sc = 20m = 48wc
    1km = 50sc = 2400wc
    1wc = 42cm = 0,0208sc

    cruiser range: 150sc = 150*48wc = 7200wc

    range reduction: 15,134%

    and alpha 7 still would have to be 4 times bigger than now

    and:

    a generator in supcom is 2sc * 2sc = 96wc * 96wc
    in warcraft it is 128wc * 128wc

    a factory in supcom is 8sc * 8 sc = 384wc * 384wc
    in warcraft it is 384wc * 384wc, perfectly scaled to paradise map ;)

    however, t1 turrets in supcom are only 1sc * 1sc, but the smallest unit possible in wc3 is 128wc * 128wc = 2,66sc * 2,66sc

    and if someone could measure the times between attacks of specific planes, that would be nice as cooldown
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  17. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Idk I have trouble likeing Alpha 7 because you start next to someone. It's not that its bad to start next to someone, but granted your so close that you NEED to arm yourself and build bombers to kill your opponent before he becomes a problem and you get behind in the game being at constant war. Like I was saying before, you can't expect to drop someone whoes never played the game before onto the battle field next to an opponent that has. Poeple will not like it. Either you give him a chance as a noob and get screwed over because the other guy didn't, or you kill him right away and have him bitch until you end up kicking him for being so annoying. I'm sorry to say this, but if your making a warcraft 3 map, it needs to be tuned to warcraft 3 players - I'm talking about all the idiots who can't figure things out for themselves. Otherwise, this map will never be more than a fairytale.

    I've yet to see a game where someone didn't see an artillary unit or cruiser or anti air defense or air units and say "OMG THATS TOO OP!" and leaves. Yeh, I know, its down right stupid, but that's how people are. They are stupid. I just implore you, to atleast give me a reason to say "It has a counter". In some cases I can, but a lot of the time, like early on with artillary, you can only really counter tier 1 artillary with either more artillary or bombers and granted they have aa, thats useless.

    Anyways thats my rant for the day. GL with your update.
     
  18. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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    im not mapping for idiots

    im not mapping for idiots

    possible problem... artillery is directly firing into the movement of the target, and not to the position where the target stood when the artillery was firing... i think i will remove that aiming for artillery-type units (including stationary), but i will keep it for battleships etc, and for tanks
     
  19. N-a-z-g-u-l

    N-a-z-g-u-l

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    new game engine & new terrains:

    Supreme Commander

    Version 3:
    - Rescaled Ranges (15% reduction)
    - Added acceleration for units
    - Fixed a torpedo bug
    - Rebalanced Aiming
    - Improved Tooltips
    - Fixed some text bugs
    - Reduced the damage dealt by bombers by 75%
     
  20. TM-Magic

    TM-Magic

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    Well, I've yet to see a non-SupCom player become anything close to a threat. Its not fun playing unless ur playing SupCom Players, and even then they sometimes quit because they would rather play the real game.

    Either way, even without idiots, the random starting positions are annoying. Some people start next to someone else, some don't. I played a 4 man game, spaced each player out, and clicked 4 teams in hopes that we'd each have an area to ourselves. Instead I started next to someone and 2 to the sides of me and none across. I ended up telling the guy next to me to keep to himself or I'd have to kill him. I built a wall very close to my buildings. He built a defense (in the center, near where he started) and it attacked my wall. I took bombers, destroyed the turret and retreated. He took artillaries, bombarded my wall and went on to destroy some extractors and so I bombed his commander until he died. In return, he decided to bitch about it for the next 10 minutes before calming down and watching the rest of the game. The guy above me (I was bot right, he was top right) teched to T3 and had no idea what to do and sat there. The guy to the left of me (Top left), played SupCom and Total Annihilation and knew what he was doing. He teched to T4 and got spiderlords and airships, which he sent in to get dominated by my defense I had ready for him. (I could see him with R3 and prepared). His second wave got through defenses and started destroying my base so I nuked him. GG he lost.

    This is a fairly typical GOOD game. Good meaning half the players didn't leave because they didn't understand what to do. Usually, they join the game thinking its something else, complain, then leave. Its nearly impossible getting a good game because poeple don't understand how to play. And even if you do get a good game going, the game is dominated by poor balancing and then even the smarter players complain. Even if by some miracle you got smart players who found it balanced, for most players the game is laggy. (including me, I have a good comp but it needs reformating >>, vista really kicks the bucket on this one)

    Btw is there anyway you can make attacking not so trigger intensive? I've seen 6 cruisers wipe out my base (which was defended with maybe 30 artillary defenses and 40 T2 turrets) because it lagged so hard I couldn't send my squad of 12 T3 bombers (which I'm not sure if they'd survive the assult)

    Anyways we'll see how it is with Version 3. GG