StarCraft II Editor too hard for you?

[Statharas]

Seriously. Stop trolling the forums just for that. If Blizzard wants to make it hard for you to spam the internet with crappy maps, they do it. Just because the editor is hard to master, and is not what you call "Izzy Sheet", then don't attempt it at all. GE is INDEED better than WE, but please. Do not call it a "Shit editor". It does what we wanted it to do. If you want it to be more simple, then use World Editor.

End of the line. Read tutorials or don't even bother running GE.


To finalize this, what Blizzard intended to do, is avoid spam and failmaps on the Battle.net. Making it hard is one of the ways to stop those maps.

 

[Warhunter]

That's some great words right there!

 

[Just_Spectating]

yep

just because it's new, doesn't mean it sucks.
deal with advancement.
learn to learn.

 

[shadonavan]

+rep my good man. I tried it out....it pissed me off......i stoped useing it. lol its a simple as that. But thankyou for telling the idiots out there whats what +REP!

 

[Statharas]

It should be a rule, that whoever moans about GE and calls it useless, simply gets Perma'd.

 

[Dr Super Good]

What is with all these spam threads recently....

 

[StormWarriors2]

Yeah. All the same thing *facepalm*

 

[Fussiler1]

This should've come like a months ago.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Should be easy to learn, but hard to master. :<

 

[SomeRandomDeleted Dr. Cabbage0]

Spam thread is spam thread

Also; Galaxy editor fucked up, user friendly my ass

 

[Raizen]

Not bitching about the map editor but its about if i se you have created a map then if i wanted to play that map i cant unless someone who has it is hosting it at the time im online. Do you get it now?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Seriously. Stop trolling the forums just for that.

Isn't this kinda a troll itself stat?

At least that's how I'll see if people who do dislike the editor come and retort to your posts and this gets way out of hand. -.-'
GJ!

EDIT: Yeah also... perma banning because of voicing their opinion? Then likewise you should be banned for this thread.
Don't be silly!! >.<

 

[Zombie]

Gosh, GE is still easier than a lot of other editors for other games out there. It's not more difficult to avoid spam, it simply has more features that let you make more quality maps.

 

[mrzwach]

Not bitching about the map editor but its about if i se you have created a map then if i wanted to play that map i cant unless someone who has it is hosting it at the time im online. Do you get it now?

Do I need to make an extremely sarcastic tutorial about the wonders of the "search hack"? It's rather difficult, it involves clicking on the search bar (located above the list of maps) then typing in a keyword for the map you want to find.

Anyways, not everything in life is easy and simple. I spent a few weeks in the early beta actually learning how to use the editor myself rather than complaining about how difficult it is. In the end, the GE is far more userfriendly and has more capabilities than almost any other editor. :\

 

[Statharas]

Blizzard gave us what we wanted. A better editor. More advanced. We never asked for a simple editor. That you click a button and get your map ready in 1 second.

 

[LordDz]

Making an editor hard just to make it hard to use sounds really retarded to me.

I mean, wouldn't there be less noob maps if let's say... You could make a whole campaign with just one click?

 

[Reaper51]

I don't think GE is better than WE or vise-versa. GE allows for more unit customizations and eye candy goods. The terrain is kinda screwed by limiting cliffs and having small map sizes and that weird square that's called "water". The only thing they did better is the texture blending. Anyways blizzard always screws up something that makes it inconvenient for us to mod, and we must have work around to it. People about 8 years ago didn't just jump into WE and figured out everything, it took many years to get the modding standard to what it is today. It is normal for some people to be frustrated with GE because first of all we don't know all its tricks. We don't have any tools for it yet like "Galaxy Editor Unlimited" or "vGalaxy Script" but neither do we have models, skins and other resources. When WE came out, everyone used the blizzard defaults for months until people began to model and do other things. Since we have already experience with WE making tools and resources, than SC2 modding will come to us faster than WC3. So please people don't put GE down because its frustrating and there is a lack of tools and custom resources. If you don't like it, wait a few months, finish your old WC3 maps before giving GE another try.

 

[AIagremm]

I actually liked some functions in GE, like scaling and tinting in the world editor itself and also some other things, however I believe that Galazy Editor is not actually hard, people are just not used to it, because though it is similar it has some great differences with WE and the harder the game the harder the editor, so no wonder GE is harder.

 

[TwentyThree]

The GE is really, really in-depth. It's not complicated per say, it just has so many features is so many different places from the WE that everyone who spent so much time getting used to the WE (such as a moderate map maker myself) will inevitably have a difficult time learning the GE, since it looks like WE and we expect things to be in the same place. Some of it is, but the things like the Data Editor? Way too new and weird for me, but I'm not going to let it stop me, I shall stare at it until I figure out every page for that data editor!
Same goes for a lot of people, but most won't be able to make the transition.
PS: This thread ISN'T spam or trolling, its a voiced opinion with legitimate reasons and is placed in the right spot. I saw it and I really wanted to see people opinions on this!

 

[Kamikaye]

I admit the editor confuses me more than anything I ever encountered.
Even the software you use to create artifical DNA is easier and more intuitively to use for someone without scripting-experience than the SC 2 Editor.

However, I expect those who are more eager to dive into that program to create mind-bending creative maps that put everything in the shadow we saw on WC 3 over the last years.

 

[Just_Spectating]

Making an editor hard just to make it hard to use sounds really retarded to me.

I mean, wouldn't there be less noob maps if let's say... You could make a whole campaign with just one click?

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

 

[DeadZero]

That's not the only reason they made it "harder", all the things are easier to
do then WE, if you mastered both WE and GE the same, GE would be quicker,
easier, faster. It's just harder to master. And it does an ass load of a lot
more.
So I agree, don't complain...

And to be honest, it's not that much harder to master than WE, at least in my
opinion, it just may seem like it for the people who have WE mastered.

 

[PurplePoot]

The WE isn't even easier; people have the same hurdles learning it. It's just familiar to all of the Warcraft modders here.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Well it is getting easier. Its just i can't find files some times D:. like my custom characters dissappered. Somehow. And i really like it. But problem is, that it is harder to learn how to do stuff.

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

in my opinion the only thing which is really difficult in the new GE is the data editor.
all other sub-editor within the GE are simple as the ones in world edit.
data editor is an important and huge part of GE and i don't understand some things, for example why you need an actor for every single unit and not multiple units for a single actor which would make more sense in my mind, but well ...

Robbepop

 

[Just_Spectating]

The WE isn't even easier; people have the same hurdles learning it. It's just familiar to all of the Warcraft modders here.

i agree

take one of your friends who have never touched either editor and let them decide

 

[Rispetto]

In a few months.. or knowing Blizzard a few years.. this will all change.
Eventually they will hear the cry of the lonely virgin gamer and they will fix their flaws (I pray as such, at least) and everything will be more user-friendly anyways. Thus voiding your argument. Just suck it up till it happens <.<

 

[Gilles]

The WE isn't even easier; people have the same hurdles learning it. It's just familiar to all of the Warcraft modders here.

I'd say WE was easier, at least at first. I had no problem using the editor right away at the age of 12 or so (doing simple things). Now at 20, I found the new editor quite confusing simply because there is more you can do. Not complaining, I just disagree with you.

 

[Arhowk]

Ya but, the huge problem is that it was never intended to be user friendly, you all thought it would be user friendly to noobs and whatnot. You cant learn it? great, your not supposed to. i cant learn calculus, that doesnt mean that a squad of math geeks should make calculus easier

 

[Statharas]

Blizzard will NEVER make it easier to understand. Debug it, sure. BUT THEY WON'T. FRIGGIN. SIMPLIFY IT.

If they simplified it, the Bnet would have 5 times MORE maps than it currently has.

 

[Rispetto]

Blizzard will NEVER make it easier to understand. Debug it, sure. BUT THEY WON'T. FRIGGIN. SIMPLIFY IT.

If they simplified it, the Bnet would have 5 times MORE maps than it currently has.

But by simplifying it you open the creative mind.
For example.. I'd love to make a map like Metastasis (wc3 platform). I have hundreds of ideas and ways to implement them into a map, but not the know-how. For example I can make a variable worth sh*t. If they simplified it, and made it much less of a learn curve, I might have a shot at making gamers happy.

Y'know?

 

[syltman]

Blizzard will NEVER make it easier to understand. Debug it, sure. BUT THEY WON'T. FRIGGIN. SIMPLIFY IT.

If they simplified it, the Bnet would have 5 times MORE maps than it currently has.

It's not a question about simplifying it but rather giving us more tools and options, why can't I for instance have the option to copy the entire unit including models, sounds, actors and edit those that I'd like insteed of having to copy the unit, actor and model of the same guy? Why don't I have the option to edit the pitch of the sound more then one sound at the time, like a option to change for every sound of a unit? Why can't I write galaxy directly insteed of having to use the slowgui or spending time importing my scripts into the map? It's these small stuff that are just time wasters and it's retarded.

Also why is there no tool like GMSI implemented in GE so I can easily write scripts to edit stuff way quicker then spending time waiting for the GE to load lists and generate units etc.

Oh and maps will obviously be more crappy when we have to spend most of the time copy and pasting shit.

 

[Just_Spectating]

lets put it this way.

I thought WE was harder than SC1's editor when i first started.
now its the same effect with WE and SCII

but i don't think it's because it actually IS harder, it's just a different editor i need to get familiar with

 

[Avo]

The only thing a i REALLY hate about the GE is creating units. The WE's object editor was pretty terrible but this is worse. Other than that the rest of the editor is amazing.

 

[WaremDarkslayer]

End of the line. Read tutorials or don't even bother running GE.

Sure, I'll read tutorials but the problem is... where the hell can I find any?
Also I don't think the GE is much harder than WE; just an editor much like WE with more features. (Aloooot more)

 

[Giantr]

Sure, I'll read tutorials but the problem is... where the hell can I find any?
Also I don't think the GE is much harder than WE; just an editor much like WE with more features. (Aloooot more)

There are some tutorials on Hive's.
Sc2mapster has some
Gex's site Sc2Mod has more

Also
Here
and
Here
and
Here
and
Here

This is also interesting to read


There are tutorials you just need to look for some.

 

[WaremDarkslayer]

@Giantr
Thanks a lot. +rep

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Seriously. Stop trolling the forums just for that. If Blizzard wants to make it hard for you to spam the internet with crappy maps, they do it.

Because that's clearly stopping them.

One of the most popular custom maps on there is Starcraft: Ghost. Go on. Log on to Battle.net and play it. Then come back and tell me that you can't spam Battle.net with crappy maps.

All the custom maps currently on Battle.net are either broken or mind-meltingly simplistic, so don't tell me this is about "preventing crappy maps".

Just because the editor is hard to master, and is not what you call "Izzy Sheet", then don't attempt it at all. GE is INDEED better than WE, but please. Do not call it a "Shit editor". It does what we wanted it to do. If you want it to be more simple, then use World Editor.

You may disagree with all your might, but part of a good map editor is user-friendliness. It was playing around with the original Starcraft's editor that introduced me and got me hooked on the entire concept of game modding in the first place. Warcraft 3 was a bit more complex, but it was still comprehensible and therefore more rewarding for its efforts.

Starcraft 2 just looks like Blizzard gave up entirely on user-friendliness. It's sloppy, and it's unmotivated compared to what we expect from them. Yes, we'd love more features. No, we don't want you to throw them all on the ground in some huge depressing pile.

End of the line. Read tutorials or don't even bother running GE.

If Blizzard has to rely on users to tell other users how to work the editor, they're not doing their fucking job.

To finalize this, what Blizzard intended to do, is avoid spam and failmaps on the Battle.net. Making it hard is one of the ways to stop those maps.

No. Seriously, stop that.

You're not a scientist. You're not a full-time game developer. You're a gamer. Just like everyone else on Battle.net. You actually want to encourage less people to be interested in the mapmaking process? Get off your fucking high horse.

You can't alienate the average gamer, amateur modder. A while back, you were the amateur modder, and if you, in your younger stages, were curious and decided to take a peek at the Galaxy Editor, you would have been driven out like it had herpes. This shouldn't happen.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Starcraft 2 just looks like Blizzard gave up entirely on user-friendliness. It's sloppy, and it's unmotivated compared to what we expect from them. Yes, we'd love more features. No, we don't want you to throw them all on the ground in some huge depressing pile.

The editor is mostly fine. Yes the features meant to make it easier to use are slightly broken but overall using it is prety logical. The data editor as far as I can see makes sense (with exception of some unknown fields and the relationship table like I said being largly useless at helping you).

If Blizzard has to rely on users to tell other users how to work the editor, they're not doing their fucking job.

This is so funny... Especially since you signed the edtior ToU documentation agreeing that blizzard will not help you make maps. Thus you are saying you dissagree with something you agreed with. This really proves how valuable what you are saying is.

Look at it this way... Pretend each editor let you write programs. With starcraft you were writing programs with some crap scripting language, which was highly unflexiable. With warcraft 3 you were using python, which is more flexiable but harder to use. With starcraft II you are using C++, which can do much more but is hellishly complicated to learn. You do not blame people who make compilers if your program fails to work correctly, instead you should blame yourself for not using it properly.

You can't alienate the average gamer, amateur modder. A while back, you were the amateur modder, and if you, in your younger stages, were curious and decided to take a peek at the Galaxy Editor, you would have been driven out like it had herpes. This shouldn't happen.

What on earth made you think this? Considering I used GUI for a few months when I was 12 before switching imediatly over to jass, this would hardly be a challenge. To show the power of the SC2 editor out, I scripted a tetris like engine in 2 days using only raw scripting code.

People who make good mods will still make good mods despite the complexity of the editor. People who were not modding seriously will not be able to make decent maps because the editor is now a serious tool, and not some playground.

 

[Avex]

Blizzard gave us what we wanted. A better editor. More advanced. We never asked for a simple editor. That you click a button and get your map ready in 1 second.

Wrong, we wanted a 3 difficulty editor, which is what they promised. What did they do? Avoid it.. suits me right for getting hopes for Blizzard.

 

[beantony]

WC3 WE is more user friendly, easy to use, easy to learn, but WC3 graphic is somehow outdated, though it is still fun to play WC3.

SC2 GE is much more complicated, especially when it comes to Data Editor. When I tried to duplicate a unit, it's not as simple as WE. I've spent about one or two hours in this last two days just trying to figure out how to do it.

Maybe we just need more to put more time on the GE, trying to familiarize ourselves with it, and then move on from WE to GE.

 

[Epix_Loot]

I'm not familiar with the galaxy editor yet, but I can see that this thing's capabilities will dwarf those of the world editor.
I haven't really found the patience to actually take my time learning my way around with it, but I'm sure I'll fall in love with it afterwards.
When I read people's complaints about it being too hard, I usually let out a huge sigh.
They should just learn how to use the thing now that it's become more advanced.
The only downside I can think of is that less people with an awesome idea will be able to show it.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Against my better judgment, I'm going to reply to your post. I know I will not change your mind. I know I will not help you understand a single thing. But god damn it, I tried, and if this won't help you, nothing will.

The editor is mostly fine. Yes the features meant to make it easier to use are slightly broken but overall using it is prety logical. The data editor as far as I can see makes sense (with exception of some unknown fields and the relationship table like I said being largly useless at helping you).

So are you some kind of AI or just incapable of sympathizing with everyone who HASN'T used the WC3's World Editor before?

This is so funny... Especially since you signed the edtior ToU documentation agreeing that blizzard will not help you make maps. Thus you are saying you dissagree with something you agreed with. This really proves how valuable what you are saying is.

This is why it's hard to take you seriously, DSG.

Look at it this way... Pretend each editor let you write programs. With starcraft you were writing programs with some crap scripting language, which was highly unflexiable. With warcraft 3 you were using python, which is more flexiable but harder to use. With starcraft II you are using C++, which can do much more but is hellishly complicated to learn. You do not blame people who make compilers if your program fails to work correctly, instead you should blame yourself for not using it properly.

Yes, but this isn't a programming language, now is it? This is a map editor. This is a program specifically designed to let Starcraft 2 Players edit and make maps. This isn't a program designed to let software designers make maps or even experienced game modders. At the forefront, this is for Starcraft 2 Players.

And, assuming that it isn't, it should be. What Blizzard's editors did best was invite and introduce game modding. Its complexity has only gotten better, but to the extent at which they sacrifice comprehensible interface is to the extent at which they are alienating their fanbase.

What on earth made you think this? Considering I used GUI for a few months when I was 12 before switching imediatly over to jass, this would hardly be a challenge. To show the power of the SC2 editor out, I scripted a tetris like engine in 2 days using only raw scripting code.

People who make good mods will still make good mods despite the complexity of the editor. People who were not modding seriously will not be able to make decent maps because the editor is now a serious tool, and not some playground.

So, if I'm getting this correct, you want to discourage all new, amateur game modders from ever touching the editor, regardless of potential, because you don't ever want to see shitty maps?

 

[Karawasa]

Just want to say that the new editor is fucking great!

 

[StormWarriors2]

ugh. I just read all the comments -.-. Wow people never agree with each other. The editor is harder to use than before. I don't like what they did with terraining making it 2x harder than before. And also giving the player the most difficult system. The data units are weird and i can't fix certain values without having to spend 2 @#$!ing hours on the map editior trying to figure it out. I know that some good map editors can't find any way to build a new map. But I have to disagree there is 1 game on battlenet that is completely epic.
Cortrex Roleplay Xil and swamp. That is one of the best maps on battlenet. XD

But i was a great modder and tester back when i didn't have hiveworkshop. (After i quit playing for a while i lost my skills D
The thing is that it is too difficult to use. And simple way to fix this is by making it more user friendly. Hell i would enjoy them giving me a copy and paste key. But nooo they had to make that difficult. instead of me working on a map for 30 minutes it takes me 2 hours. As units can't be built that i had made to be built. -.- Thank blizzard, you f---ed up again. sad face

 

[Giantr]

I like the GE, but there are some things that are just BULL.

I hate the water squares.
I dislike the Data Editor
I hate (If that is not yet fixed) that you can't simply put Galaxy code into the Trigger editor.
I hate the restictions on map size (10 mb is too low for some maps), but that is not the editor's fault now is it.

Other than that it's solid.

 

[mrzwach]

The real problem with the Galaxy editor is that it expects its users to be highly competent in the modding field already (ie have used other editors). Once you have learned the editor, it is quite simple to do almost anything, but to someone who is just starting to look at it, it is hellishly complex and confusing.

Better UI and such would be nice. Unfortunately, it won't happen (as blizz has stated), which is what I think the point of the original post was.

oh, also, you can code custom script directly in the editor. Could you please at least try to do something before you complain about not being able to?

 

[tagg1080]

The real problem with the Galaxy editor is that it expects its users to be highly competent in the modding field already (ie have used other editors). Once you have learned the editor, it is quite simple to do almost anything, but to someone who is just starting to look at it, it is hellishly complex and confusing.

Or the fact that blizzard has barely updated the way they present the information to be edited since the first editor.

A long list of fields that are semi organized, some with obscure names, and no help info anywhere.

Maybe they could actually give us a nicely packaged editor for once?

Now, th elitist pieces of crap are all like, "omg noobs, stfu, it is easy once you know what you are doing!", and you know what? at this point in "blizzard map editor" versions, this thing should be fucking b-e-a-utiful.

But it is STILL an ugly piece of crap.

 

[PurplePoot]

That's the same as the WE, really, mrz.

 

[mrzwach]

Not particularly. I was able to jump into the world editor and make custom maps almost instantly, when I was like 9 years old. Granted, they were pretty damn shitty maps, but at the very least I was able to easily understand how to use it.