Star2 != War3

[tagg1080]

It seems that some people have missed this key point...

Starcraft 2 is NOT Warcraft 3.


Spending all of our time trying to recreate Warcraft3 is not really the easiest thing to do.

Things like heroes, spells, items, etc...

This is not Warcraft, and it isn't going to be, we all need to put our STARCRAFT hats back on, and stop trying to make this into Warcraft4.



Just something I have noticed, that a large flux of people are trying to make the same exact kinds of maps with the same exact kinds of things in them as War3.

It is hard to think differently, but that will create the best maps.

Things like Hex'd, while it is an AMAZING game, isn't really that cool on Star2, half of the functions are built in.

Now, for warcraft 3, warlock is somewhat of a masterpiece, but not with the new editor.


So when you are working on your maps, try to see what parts of the NEW editor you can push to the limits, don't just try to remake the same crap that we have on War3.

Lets push this editor to its limits with new and innovative ideas, not just recreate old ideas.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

True, since 2006 Im interested in futuristic stuff which is why I started making such maps and themes. However, for me war3 will remain the other best game, that not only taught me to play the competitive RTS and now helps me start from some not so bad level in SC2 as if 've played it for a year.. It also taught me mapmaking like no other game before. Thus, I wouldn't bash war3 when it will remain in my heart and when war3 gave us home to us, space mapmakers in fantasy world

For how playing war3 gave me so much knowledge and readiness in SC2, I'll not go in details, but war3 also helps you even if war3 is != SC2, a difference in the speed and army mostly but played in the same way.

 

[kewlthis]

I dont see a prolem creating same kinds of maps that are in wc3.

If they are hell lot of fun to play, whats wrong with making them since you can make them...

...

 

[Rui]

(...) trying to recreate Warcraft3 is not really the easiest thing to do.
(...)
for warcraft 3, warlock is somewhat of a masterpiece, but not with the new editor.(...)
when you are working on your maps, try to see what parts of the NEW editor you can push to the limits, don't just try to remake the same crap that we have on War3.

I don't understand what you're complaining about. It's not easy, it's unoriginal, we need to push the editor to its limits, or all of them? Also, noticed the contradiction on «masterpiece Warlock» and «the crap that we have on War3»?

My thoughts on the subject are that, if an idea met with success, such as Warlock, it should be continued. Appealing to people's tastes is the objective. Pushing the editor to its limits and being original may, but will not always, meet with this objective.
Now, as soon as the Beta appeared, there was a proliferation of tower defense maps. I do not understand how people enjoy this type of maps so much, given that tower defenses are essentially all the same; watch as creeps pass by and get pawned by your towers. If there's one thing I rant about, is people not spending their time on more useful things.

I agree with the making of a Wc4. First, Blizzard has given us many new tools that will permit such a thing to happen; on the other hand, I always thought Modern Warfare or Starcraft maps in Warcraft III were ridiculous because the size available for resources was simply not enough.
Second, some people (like me) just prefer medieval, fantasy, and magic over modern warfare and high technology scientific fiction.
Third, time goes on; before we even realize it, we're overloaded with responsibilities and work, and there is little time for gaming and modifying. Starcraft II expansions are coming, and so is Diablo III after that. When will Warcraft IV come? Rather, when will it be put on stores? Five, maybe ten years? Most of the oldschool Warcraft III players will have been sucked into the vortex of real life by then.
Finally, I'd rather try making a Warcraft 4 modification and meet with failure than complain later because no one ever tried.

 

[tagg1080]

I am not trying to complain, per say, just mostly point out that we have a NEW game, with a NEW editor, and a NEW universe, and most of the maps are just trying to do OLD stuff.


That just seems, almost, a waste.

 

[LordDz]

If ya don't like the maps, don't play 'em?

 

[kewlthis]

If ya don't like the maps, don't play 'em?

with the current system you cannot really choose so much what to play...

I already send email about the custom map system in current bnet, you should do it too!! and hopefully blizzard will change it someday soon...

 

[tagg1080]

If ya don't like the maps, don't play 'em?

That is an immature and nonsense response...

I am saying that it seems that not many people are taking advantage of the new features, and just moving on with map making like things just changed color, not that new things have been added to the mix.

This has nothing to do with liking or not liking maps.

 

[RedZack]

Oh come on, the game just got released!
Even if you have a great idea for a new map, now.
It would take weeks/months till you have it "finished".

Warcraft 3 was released 7 years ago, and most of its good maps, are not older than 2 years! So just be patient and wait a while.


Somewhere on this forum is even a poll, where you can vote, how long it might take for SC2.

Recreating maps for SC2 its a super idea, cause there are many things which weren´t possible for WC3.
And why should mappers not use Heros, items and spells for SC2 maps?
Creating such things is one of the new feature of the SC2 Editor!

 

[StormWarriors2]

well i've been working on a space map. in starcraft 2 where it is all war.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I get his point, and Im also for seeing more space and sci fi maps than fantasy maps not that there shouldnt be any warcraft 3 remakes. Though the way I see it, you're gonna need a lot more to do to turn it into middle ages than making a space map in warcraft 3 map. So GL doing war3 map, models and interface. If a long time made war3 map doesnt get enough popularity you have the THW community that is big enough to play it. I only find it hilarious remaking Dota with its war3 models.

 

[tagg1080]

Though the way I see it, you're gonna need a lot more to do to turn it into middle ages than making a space map in warcraft 3 map. So GL doing war3 map, models and interface.

It isn't just about making a map in the warcraft universe.

Look at Starcraft 1 maps. (BEFORE Warcraft 3)
Look at Warcraft 3 maps.
Look at Starcraft 2 maps.

Right now, the Starcraft 2 editor and game are structured differently, yet people havn't broken the mold of how they make their maps.

My point is that Star 1 had a unique mold of custom map, and so did war3.

Right now, most of the maps for Star2 are still the war3 "genre" of maps.

We havn't hit the "evolution" and truely started making the "newer" maps yet.


Tell me a solid War3 map is ANYTHING like a solid Star1 map?

Yet all of the Star2 maps are just like the War3 maps.


Just an observation, no one has really taken the torch and run with it yet.

 

[Tyranid]

Look at Starcraft 1 maps. (BEFORE Warcraft 3)
Look at Warcraft 3 maps.
Look at Starcraft 2 maps.

Look at your game, now look at Starcraft 2. back at your game, now back to Starcraft 2. Sadly, it isn't Starcraft 2, but if you stopped using World Editor and started using Galaxy Edit it could be like Starcraft 2.

What's in your hand? it's in Starcraft 2's. It's 2 copies of that TD you love! Look again! The TDs are now FPSs!

Anything is possible when you start using Galaxy Editor.

I'm on a Zergling.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Making maps which are carbon copies of WC 3 maps isn't all that bad in my opinnion, mostly because it makes you work with something similar it also makes you accustomed to the Galaxy Editor, making it easier for you to start more ambitious project later on. In my opinnion this whole "WC 3 copy maps" is just a phase which will blow over later on, once people move onto more ambitious project or start upgrading their WC 3 maps with SC 2 features.

 

[PurplePoot]

Nitpick: Warlock wasn't hard to do on Wc3 either.

 

[tagg1080]

Nitpick: Warlock wasn't hard to do on Wc3 either.

My point being is was a drastic difference then some heroes with their names and stats set to UBERRR LEET OMGGG HAXORXRZRZR, it was something that was fairly different from the regular game.

 

[BlinkBoy]

Man most famous maps in wc3 are influeced or based on old starcraft maps like Dota which was based in AoS. Risk was influenced by Diplomacy. Even TDs had a start in sc.

I see no problem in actualy implementing hero and items systems in Sc2, specialy since Sc2 handles it better than wc3 (look at the diablo and WoW mods for example).

Also, most people remake old maps because they want to extend those maps to higher limits than their old counterparts could get. For example, look at Sotis it feels more like Hon rather than dota since ability crafting in sc2 is a lot more advanced.

EDIT: I most also agree with tyranid, copying is a good way to adapt into the editor since you have a direction to follow while learning unlike starting something new in a tool which you don't know anything about.

 

[SanKakU]

i haven't figured out the new mapmaking yet... otherwise i'd probably be working on something new and fun...

 

[Karawasa]

Now, as soon as the Beta appeared, there was a proliferation of tower defense maps. I do not understand how people enjoy this type of maps so much, given that tower defenses are essentially all the same; watch as creeps pass by and get pawned by your towers.

It sounds like you played the wrong TDs for WC3.

If there's one thing I rant about, is people not spending their time on more useful things.

You're equating your personal preference with fact. This is not the case. While you may not like TDs, they are certainly quite useful to make. This is evidenced by their popularity.

 

[Rispetto]

Dude, StarCraft II has been out for a month. Do you really think people are going to jump back into the game and create new ideas?

I mean come on, if a game is popular in Warcraft III and people love it, why not re-create it in SC2? And in that case, why not re-create games from SC1?

I think it's smart, to be honest. I'd love to see the return of Metastasis, or The Alternate Future.. something like that.

 

[M0RT]

why not re-create games from SC1?

Well Income Wars is a recreation of SC1 game so far I know, so that's a good example why not. C'mon, even in warcraft you could have created some better shop UI than a bunch of regions... in starcraft (custom dialogs), this is just horrible. The same applies for almost any other sc1 remake. So if they can't make a remake properly, using new technology, they shouldn't do it at all. (and obviously, they can't)

 

[Karawasa]

Well Income Wars is a recreation of SC1 game so far I know, so that's a good example why not. C'mon, even in warcraft you could have created some better shop UI than a bunch of regions... in starcraft (custom dialogs), this is just horrible. The same applies for almost any other sc1 remake. So if they can't make a remake properly, using new technology, they shouldn't do it at all. (and obviously, they can't)

You need to realize that your post doesn't provide any logical reason to avoid recreating SC1 games. Rather, it seems to be against people who suck at making games. I couldn't agree more in that regard.

 

[M0RT]

Well that is true, but it just seems that all mapmakers want to force the restrictions of the previous engine to the remake. Like the remake of dota with 6-slot inventory. Why did blizzard even bother to create a new inventory system? Or all the maps where regions are used to control anything... we have custom dialogs now.
But you are right that remakes in general aren't that bad, I am actually also making a remake of Missile wars, but with so much new technology, that it's basically a totally different game.

 

[tagg1080]

Well that is true, but it just seems that all mapmakers want to force the restrictions of the previous engine to the remake. Like the remake of dota with 6-slot inventory. Why did blizzard even bother to create a new inventory system? Or all the maps where regions are used to control anything... we have custom dialogs now.
But you are right that remakes in general aren't that bad, I am actually also making a remake of Missile wars, but with so much new technology, that it's basically a totally different game.

Exactly.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Not everyone is a visionary, yes there are very creative modders out there but the reality is that many people are unable to come up with unique ideas and thus just look to what has already been done for inspiration - if they improve upon it, fine. I just think that with a whole new platform for creativity all the "I'm remaking X from wc3 in sc2" threads are disappointing as most people seem unable to embrace the new possibilities the game presents.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Now, as soon as the Beta appeared, there was a proliferation of tower defense maps. I do not understand how people enjoy this type of maps so much, given that tower defenses are essentially all the same; watch as creeps pass by and get pawned by your towers. If there's one thing I rant about, is people not spending their time on more useful things.

This. All I would say about TDs, thank you.

 

[RedClaw]

idk why you are all complaning....The only thing that maters is that Blizzard makes the best ever games in the univers Don't complain they will make Games more advanced than starcraft 2 and warcraft 3 and thene wat will we say?Ou i play starcraft 2 but its a bad game cuz now its starcraft 3.....my point is that most of people complayn about things that are made to replicate the original and make it beter but wat do you have with the original?evan now starcraft 1 lovers (as i am one) play starcraft 1 for fun and don't play starcraft 2 beacose its a ''Replica'' done to be more cooler and to make more farplay in starcraft univers. ~EternalWow2010 Out~

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Did you even read the thread?

The complaint is about the modders being incapable of unique ideas in the face of new possibilities of the new engine, not Blizzard.

Blizzard makes the best ever games in the univers

Extreme overstatement is extreme