Squad-based Fantasy RTS

[Tleno]

Actually I suggest humans should have some kind of Captain/Leutenant/Force Commander. this would suit the squad system more.

 

[Sunshine and Night]

yes but Maybe a Marshal

 

[GhostThruster]

I think the Humans should get 'mini-heros' instead. Otherwise, they could very well over-power the Undead.

@Wazzz: Are you sure you don't just want to make the Graveyards actual buildings belonging to the Undead? I think it would be much easier if the Undead just haunt Gold Mines, 'Vantage Points' or something into GYs, and you control these GYs.

 

[Wazzz]

@Goku:
Soul Armor is interesting =D
There aren't necessarily 'upgrades' for the hero items, so to speak, btw, so this added effect would be balanced by the armor itself providing less armor than the Dark Armor.
Don't know how I'd get the effect of the Soul Armor into play, but either I'll figure it out or I'll get someone to assist me with that :3
Could even be a slightly different take on it, where every kill around the Death Knight with Soul Armor will increase his health by a small percentage (or maybe even just give it a Life Drain ability Ö)
Keep the ideas coming, goku =D

@GhostThruster:
Yea, I don't really want them controlling the GY's as I don't really want the Undead getting buildings, so to speak (if Boneward is a building, that will be an exception). So it will be a matter of creating GY's and then the Humans will need to hunt down the Necro by predicting which GY he will be at. Which is sort of where I'm thinking that the GY's will be completely separate to the Gold Mines (while the Humans will have sort of closed-in expansion points to use, the Undead GY's will be more open to assist the Necro in escaping).

@SnN & tleno:
Templar is already a unit, and I think Knight is too, but Knight could work (if I can think of an alternative name for the Horsy Rider that I believe is called Knight atm). Captain could work, although he won't be leading a squad, so to speak (I wish I could make that a possibility, but the Combat Hero would need to hold different items to the rest of the squad, and that isn't possible given how the squad system operates). Force Commander isn't half bad, either.

@tleno:
Ah, so you mean something along the lines of the Wards themselves tap into the Necromancer's power via his max mana? Not a bad suggestion, I might try that =D
Would also discourage Undead players from spamming the buggers.
As for the teleport thing, that would be pretty awesome =D

@Everyone:
Awesome ideas, thankyou so much =D
Keep the good work up ^^

 

[GhostThruster]

Force Commander

Lol, too much DoW.

@GhostThruster:
Yea, I don't really want them controlling the GY's as I don't really want the Undead getting buildings, so to speak (if Boneward is a building, that will be an exception). So it will be a matter of creating GY's and then the Humans will need to hunt down the Necro by predicting which GY he will be at. Which is sort of where I'm thinking that the GY's will be completely separate to the Gold Mines (while the Humans will have sort of closed-in expansion points to use, the Undead GY's will be more open to assist the Necro in escaping).

If not, you could perhaps make unit/building hybrids? Like, they walk and attack and everything, but real units require them to be trained, and they generate resources or something. I'd like to see a really slow unit/building which restores mana in some creative balanced way.

 

[Wazzz]

Which unit/building hybrids? The Necromancer is, in essence, a unit/building hybrid.

 

[GhostThruster]

Basically, they are like walking buildings, and some of them have additional abilities. Like an Ancient of War with Heal (they have support abilities only). That'll be cool, and they could train their troops(though much more limited than the Necromancer's training) in the front line (as Undead should).

 

[rysnt11]

I think the walking building suit with the un-death theme, and for the human, i suggest use paladin as a hero, since paladin is a melee str tanker hero, you will find him useful in some map, i, myself use him as front combatans in my rpg
And i have some suggestion about the undead
1. The undead must be undead, they Can only be killed by killing the necromancer, other wise, they will keep reincarnate, i know this sound imba, but after all, the ''undeath'', is a thing that can't die..
So, a exocrist shops must be scattered around the map, to excorcise the undead, and human must have a light bringer as hero class to help the human survive the undead rush
2. Add night elevs!
They will use ancient weaponery as their power, and nature it self, i.e. The huntress can meld Near a tree, or a archer can attack from behind a tree without Being spotted, then the item will be created depends on where they build their primal base, ie, if they build near water, they get an attack speed increaser item, and if they build near the tress they get a supportive items, or if they build in an open area (savana or something like grass land) they get attack booser item, also their troops is depends on that too..

 

[GhostThruster]

I like your 'Undeath' idea. Perhaps the Necromancer can have an aura which grants nearby Undead units a % reincarnate.

 

[Wazzz]

Night Elves is an abomination imo. I hate Warcraft lore with all my heart.

Paladin would involve defensive spells/skills, augmentating his troops and such, but I'm not sure if I want that so to speak (although it couldn't hurt to have a slight combination of Combat and Caster).

Idk about walking buildings, the main purpose of them is to serve as towers which can sort of defend a Graveyard, but at the same time it wouldn't be too bad to be able to summon them elsewhere. One thing I'm thinking is perhaps I could make it that the Boneward things can 'teleport', so to speak (perhaps move by 'tunneling' underground to a set location). Could be interesting, make it so it moves forward as you wish.

A %reincarnate could be possible, although I'm not too sure how to get the % part working (yet)

 

[GhostThruster]

A %reincarnate could be possible, although I'm not too sure how to get the % part working (yet)

Once again, my friend, some simple triggers I could show you if you want.

Then there could be a Bone Guard or Bone Ward which will be the tower. What I'm thinking is that these could serve as secondary unit summoners, where the Necromancer puts it's 'essence' into the tower, essentially transferring mana to it (to a certain cap, of course). The Bone Guard/Ward will then be able to raise certain low tier Undead units to the battlefield, essentially serving as secondary barracks'.

Woops, didn't read this till now. That's basically my idea, though they should walk and use alternate ways of training. eg. a 'Skeletal Devourer' Devours ( a spell) a target unit, and an Undead minion is spawned. These buildings should be very limited in training capabilities, so as to not stray too far from your Necromancer ideas.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I was thinking of implementing tleno's idea of taking max mana from the Necromancer, so they will most definitely need to be limited somehow. But yea, I was thinking they'd be more so for summoning low tier units, too.

As for these simple triggers, I'd like you to assist me with this please ^^
What I have atm is a trigger that can add an ability to a unit based on a buff (essentially serving to allow for some otherwise impossible effects to come into play). However, I don't think this would help with creating a chance of reincarnating too much.

 

[GhostThruster]

• Reincarnate
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Dies
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) has buff I like Men) Equal to True
    • (Random integer number between 1 and 100) Less than or equal to 25
  • Actions
    • -------- ^1st condition checks if unit has buff --------
    • -------- ^2nd condition is a chance [25%, as I have put it] --------
    • -------- /you can add sfx, change the code etc etc --------
    • Set temp_point = (Position of (Triggering unit))
    • Hero - Instantly revive (Triggering unit) at temp_point, Hide revival graphics
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)

Well, I was thinking of implementing tleno's idea of taking max mana from the Necromancer, so they will most definitely need to be limited somehow. But yea, I was thinking they'd be more so for summoning low tier units, too.

I disagree with this. Aside from the fact that I don't think you can take off mana, it's too much work and should really only be implemented if these unit/buildings are far too imba, coz taking mana from the Necro can really cripple an Undead player's army.

 

[Wazzz]

The way I was going to take mana off of the Necro was implement a mana bonus that provided a negative value of mana.

As for that trigger, I'm not sure that will work, as won't it be checking if a dead unit has a buff? Or has it been tested and proven to work?

 

[GhostThruster]

Oh damn, it doesn't work. Fear not, I shall have a solution!!!

The mana bonus ability does not stack I believe.

EDIT: Well, that was quick. The below triggers use this system.

Detects if a blow will kill a unit (detection begins JUST before the unit dies), if it does, add it to a unit group.

• Damage
  • Events
    • Game - GDD_Event becomes Equal to 0.00
  • Conditions
    • ((Life of GDD_DamagedUnit) - GDD_Damage) Less than or equal to 0.00
    • (GDD_DamagedUnit has buff Jks, I don't like men. I LOVE MEN.) Equal to True
  • Actions
    • Unit Group - Add GDD_DamagedUnit to RespawnGroup

The rest, fit like pieces in a puzzle.

• Reincarnate
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Dies
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) is in RespawnGroup) Equal to True
    • (Random integer number between 1 and 100) Less than or equal to 25
  • Actions
    • -------- ^1st condition checks if unit has buff --------
    • -------- ^2nd condition is a change [25%, as I have put it] --------
    • -------- /you can add sfx, change the code etc etc --------
    • Set temp_point = (Position of (Triggering unit))
    • -------- unfortunately, revivals only work for heros, so we will have to manually re-trigger it --------
    • Unit - Remove (Triggering unit) from the game
    • Unit - Create 1 (Unit-type of (Triggering unit)) for (Owner of (Triggering unit)) at temp_point facing Default building facing degrees
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_temp_point)
    • -------- Debug msg --------
    • Game - Display to (All players) the text: Hi

 

[Wazzz]

Doesn't stack? I hope it does Ö
Trigger sounds cool, must try this out, thanks =D

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

Alright, got some more for you. Man, your brain works wonders while asleep

Also, I take in account what you said about hero item upgrades, although I'm presenting a techtree-style approach to the following. The researches would be in a spellbook type thing on the Death Knight.

Requirements: (L1): the Death Knight.
(L2): Necromancer Level 3, researched Rune Blade.
(L3): Necromancer Level 5, researched Rune Blade, haven't researched L2 engravings.

(L1) Rune Blade Increases damage by a flat amount, relatively small.
(L2) Engrave: Ruthlessness Increases critical hit chance by 15% in addition to increasing damage by a flat amount, medium. Locks out other engravings.
(L2) Engrave: Unholy Provides a 20% life steal in addition to increasing attack speed by a flat amount, relatively small.
(L2) Engrave: Spellbreaker Gives 33% resistance to Magic, Spell and Chaos type attacks. Increases damage by a flat amount, relatively small.
(L3) Engrave: Frozen Might Provides a 25% Chill effect to attacks. Increases damage by a flat amount, relatively large.
(L3) Engrave: Judicator Provides ability: Death Judge. Increases attack speed by a flat amount, medium. (Death Judge: Kills a single unit from a friendly squad and uses its unholy energy to attack. The stronger the unit, the more damage dealt. The attack is area-of-effect.)
(L3) Engrave: Disease Master Passive ability: Plagueborne. Any enemies that attack the Death Knight physically suffer Plague, that deals a small amount of damage every second and has a 10% chance of spreading to a nearby enemy on every damage tick. Lasts for 5 seconds. Increases attack damage by a small amount.

 

[Wazzz]

Ah sweet, looking good so far =D
The Necromancer will use Staffs, btw, shouldn't be too hard to change that up though.
I do like the techtree style idea, might be able to implement that somehow even.

Okay, so here's some ideas I was thinking of in terms of how the Undead hero items will be aquired/changed. Basically, the Human heroes will start with some preset items, but ultimately you will be able to upgrade them (essentially giving them some better effects) at a cost, serving as a research (most probably with no cooldown). The Undead, however, won't have a building to provide said upgrades, so I was thinking the Necromancer could perhaps have these as spells within a spellbook (perhaps a spellbook for upgrades and research, although I'm still thinking that the level of the Necromancer will unlock all the tech abilities for the Undead units).

Alternatively, another thought I had is that the starting items for the heroes (going for both races) could have a spellbook implemented in them that allows the player to then select an 'upgrade' to the item, so to speak. Or I might just have that for the Undead (perhaps even just for the Necro, so that the Necro can research the Death Knight or something).

Bah, still not too sure how I'm going to do this, I might make some other upgrades for the Undead units such as equipment bonuses or something.

Liking the ideas of Engraves, btw =D

So, items for the Necromancer...
Staff - Provides attack, upgrades provide secondary effects to damage, some even introducing damage bonuses (maybe)
Defensive Spell - Provides resistance and defensive bonuses, upgrades have more defensive secondary effects including health bonuses and the likes
(Example of this would be a Bone Shield spell I was thinking of, just provides a passive improvement to the Necromancer's defensive properties, including health)
Spell Scripts - There will be three of these, one level 1 spell, one level 2 and one level 3. However, as casters will get these options, I'm thinking that perhaps heroes might get a bonus to these somehow. Perhaps instead of going from level 1 to level 3, could go from level 2 to level 4 or something. Still not too sure, as I want there to be certain spellbooks the races draw from.
Human - Basically, one item slot is reserved for racial properties. If the unit is a creature and not a part of a race, it will have itself as that item. Basically, it explains how it gets the defensive properties it has. The Necromancer is Human, when it becomes the Lich, it will gain more properties explained by a 'Lich' item.

 

[Wazzz]

UPDATE: Just thought of something awesome that I'm going to implement.
Basically, caster heroes won't be any better in their spell selection than caster units, persay, but they will possibly get access to a lot more spells as well as separate spellbooks.

For example, the Necromancer will have a Book of Necromancy, which will allow it to cast all the Raise Dead spells. For other spell options, you could give it 'Book of Bone' or something, but perhaps rather than a 'book', something with less spells. Either that, or I'll replace 'Book' in 'Book of Necromancy' with something like 'Tome'. Or vice versa, which ever sounds more feasible.

Hell, I'm thinking of sticking with scripts, just make it the Necromancer gets a 'book' or a 'tome' of Necromancy, your thoughts?

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

Okay, so I have something in regard to the T1-T4 spell system. I gather you'll want to have three for every tier or so? These are laid out in that regard.

(T1) - Fire Bolt A basic, low damage, autocast spell that recharges very fast. DPS type.
(T1) - Truestrike A basic, autocast spell that increases chance of critical hit by 8% and gives Truestrike (attacks don't miss). Support type.
(T1) - Degility A basic, autocast spell that reduces attack and movement speed of target by 10%. Impairing type.

(T2) - Chain Bolt A Firebolt that bounces up to 5 times. Damage reduced by 10% each bounce. Relatively fast cooldown. DPS type.
(T2) - Swift Combat Increases attack speed of target's squad by 20%. Support type.
(T2) - Oncoming Wind Reduces movement speed of all units in a cone area by 80%-10% depending on how close to the caster the units are. Channeling spell. Impairing type.

(T3) - Electro Nova Burst Shocks a target area. After 1.3 seconds, an electric nova bursts out every second dealing relatively small damage and dealing a 0.4 sec stun each. Spawns one nova every second for 4 seconds. Channeling spell. DPS/Impairing hybrid type.
(T3) - Power Overload Gives a target unit a buff called Overload. This unit will recieve +5% of attack speed and damage every second. After the bonus hits +75%, the unit explodes dealing Health x 0.2 area effect damage to enemies nearby. Support/DPS hybrid type.
(T3) - Bog Creates a large bog in target area that slows enemy units inside it by 50% attack and movement speed. Allies are able to walk on the bog, gaining 15% movement speed. Channeling spell. Very long cooldown. Impairing/Support hybrid type.

(T4) - Annihilation The strongest offensive spell, rains down large meteors on target area. A meteor is summoned every 0.2 sec and deals medium damage to ALL units caught in its blast. The meteors are summoned in random locations inside the target area. Lasts for 4 sec. Channeling spell. Very high cooldown. DPS type.
(T4) - Call of War All allied squads not in combat recieve a 75% movement speed boost. All allied squads in combat recieve a 33% attack damage boost. Long cooldown. Excludes worker squads from the boosts (Peasant, Peon squads). Support type.
(T4) - Melt Steel Melts the steel of every unit in target area, reducing their armor and damage by 75%. Very long casting time. The debuff lasts for 10 seconds. Requires channeling to keep the debuff active. Impairing type.

So, if you didn't have quite this in mind, I hope it gave some ideas.

 

[Tleno]

Oh, just a tinny suggestion, not sure if you're like it... see, once I was thinking that heroes, instead of having the old traditional critical strike system, would have more intresting one. See, they have a weapon and a socket to it. Critical chance depends from weapon, so does damage and attack speed. And what does the critical strike do... that depends from socket. See, like you can put up an "Element of Fire" in it, so when you have a critical, you also set the enemy on fire, dealing him additional damage. Or "Rune of Healing", that when you have a critical, restores hp of you and surrounding units. This would allow lots of different tactical possibilities, and more diversion from factions if they have different sockets and weapons... weaker weapons like daggers and wands could have higher critical cahnce possibility, but lower damage. While stronger ones like claymores and battle staffs would have lower chances...

So will you immplement that undead wand that allows teleportation thing? I mean, this could be one of key spells for necromancer, he could leave few wards on different graveyards, and then teleport from one to another... of course, this spell should be canceled when necromancer recieves damage to avoid necromancer retreating when losing and then attacking all over...
Plus those "Wards" could later be upgraded into more powerful ones, kinda like necron obelisks...
Well, necromancer could have Book of Dead (Or just Necronomicon ) and Parchment of unburried... no wait that's lame.. maybe Scroll of (sacred) Secrets?
Now, as for necromancer raising undeads in area.. this would really be awesome... but wait, would they be reanimated with a percentage of their life or with max hp? Or some constant value, like no matter what is the revived unit his hp is set 50?

Oh, and will you add other factions too? Since you alredy mentioned you hate night elves, some kind of ature faction should still be intresting. You know, all the ents and trees, probably animals too. They could have their units "Grown up" just like ancient structures.

 

[Wazzz]

Ah, Necromicon sounds cool, might use that one =D
The Critical Strike thing sounds odd, but I do like the idea of having weapons with a chance to create a certain combat effect, I'll see what I can do in terms of that.
I reckon some form of 'quick escape' would be handy for the Necromancer, but it would probably be the Bone Ward itself that summons the Necromancer (as the Necromancer is the only 'hero' unit, so to speak, pretty easy to make it only target the Necro).
Necro only summons units within a Graveyard, but Bone Wards will be able to summon skeletal units from itself (as it is basically constructed entirely out of bone, I might make it cost health of the Bone Ward itself instead of mana... that would be cool =D).

These spells sound pretty cool so far, Goku, keep the ideas flowing! =D
I'll put these into 'categories' (such as Evokation, Conjuration, Illusion, etc. etc.), which will be the different spellbooks.

Now... perhaps I should outline the spellbooks I'm leaning towards having... let's see:
- Evokation (blowing shit up)
- Conjuration (summoning)
- Illusion (avoiding damage)
- Restoration (healing shit)
- Alteration (shielding) [might be combined with Restoration as a Divine sort of category, but at the same time I might change some of the spells I have to suit these categories]

I'll search for further inspiration on categories later. Most of these are based on Oblivion, some from DnD, so I'm going to look to DnD for further inspiration on categories.

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

Okay, so from these spellbooks/categories I got a few ideas instantly.

(Con) Wisp Summons a Wisp that is ethereal (immune to physical attacks). The Wisp has the ability to Mana-Shock, stunning enemies near it for 1.4 sec. Expires in 90 sec.

(Con) Flarespawn Summons a Flarespawn that can cast Fire Bolt and Chain Bolt. Takes 50% damage from physical attacks. Expires in 40 sec.

(Con) Deathkin Summons a Deathkin that is ethereal. The Deathkin has Death Aura, which conjures a 30 dmg Death Coil every 3 seconds to enemy units around it.
Expires in 15 sec.

(Con) Firemaster Summons a Firemaster that can cast Fire Bolt, Chain Bolt and Annihilation. Powerful summon.

(Con) Battlemaster Summons a Battlemaster. The Battlemaster has high physical attack and defense, but is weak to magical attacks. Can cast Vigor on allies. Powerful summon.

(Res) Life Beam Channels a Life Beam to target unit that restores 10% of its health every second.

(Res) High Hopes Inflicts High Hopes on all allies nearby. High Hopes triples health regeneration in combat.

(Evo) Blaze Chain Shoots a firebolt that bounces 3 times. On each bounce, the chain explodes, dealing medium AoE damage.

(Evo) Thor's Hammer A huge lightning bolt crashes down from the sky, dealing very high AoE damage. (make it have a large Thunderclap effect when landing)

(Illu) Counter Image Creates two copies of yourself that die in 1 hit. When a copy dies, it retaliates the attack that killed it to its killer dealing 3x more damage. Area effect attacks cannot trigger this effect.

(Illu) Blink Makes your form less percievable, giving you temporary 50% evasion.

(Alt) Frost Guard Creates a frost guard on the battlefield. The frost guard has high HP and Armor and taunts every second. When an enemy attacks the Frost Guard, it will be slowed by 25% (both AS/MS). Expires in 15 sec.

(Res) Vigor Increases attack speed by 15%. Much more effective on allies under 30% health. (Hero version castable on squads at a time, Battlemaster only casts on single targets)

Note: Powerful summon means that it cannot expire until it has died. However, powerful summons are immune to buffs and healing.

So, here's my.. uh.. 68 cents?

 

[Wazzz]

Ideas look cool, I'd say 'Blur' instead of 'Blink'

Had a more indepth post to post, but it stupidly didn't post it and I wasn't aware of that before refreshing -.-

Anyway, I'll see what I can do with some of these abilities =D

Blaze Chain sounds like an awesome effect idea, I like it, but am wondering how to implement it >

 

[Tleno]

Mysticism or something like that could be used for scouting... you know, summoning some spirits to scout or just revealing the area...

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

About the Blaze Chain, you could make it a firebolt chain lightning that deals 1 damage per bounce as a base spell, and have it make an Incinerate Explosion effect on every bounce while dealing the actual damage.

 

[GhostThruster]

Just a reminder; don't give the Necromancer too much spells. And shouldn't he be a support-based hero?

EDIT: Chain system.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, the Necromancer has all the Raise Dead spells, as well as some spells from a couple of other areas, but these will primarily be centered around Necromancy. Like, when he branches out into other categories, they will be centered around the dead still (on account of the Necrominicon).
I'm thinking some options for the Necromancer might include Alteration and Conjuration (although the Raise Dead spells would come under Conjuration in way, they could possibly come under Restoration). However, what the Necrominicon grants is mastery of the skill related to the Raise Dead spells, but only ever applying skills to Necromancer from there on (so it's sort of like forbidden magic).

I am still yet to decide on the categories, though, I'm not quite comfortable with how these categories support the Necromancer.
An alternative list of categories could be:
- Death
- Life
- Fire
- Water
- Earth
- Air

Inspired by Age of Wonders. That could work, too. Perhaps I could use the original categories as sub-categories, just to describe what the spell does. Hmm... that could work. You have your base element depending on the unit or the race, and then for some heroes you might choose what area they master more. Or maybe they just choose spells all the same, and are from a different elemental branch altogether.

Mysticism is a good one, forgot about that one from Oblivion

 

[GhostThruster]

Jumping from Oblivion to Avatar: The Last Airbender

Nay, the spells should belong to 1 element, but they can have various effects (like the Oblivion spell categories).

 

[Wazzz]

Hmm...
Well, in Age of Wonders, the Humans had their magic based around the element of 'Water'. This had healing spells as well as numerous Water-based spells that were really cool. I do want to do something like that (light themed Humans are getting quite boring), but at the same time, I think perhaps they should be 'life' themed. Not too sure, tho, for if I include Elves, they will be Life themed, too.

 

[Tleno]

GhostThruster, do we have to jump to Halo to make you finally happy?

Well, humans by my opinion, are more of Earth themed. Unless you add Dwarves, which are even more Earthly... plus Earth is kind of a neutral element, which doesn't seem evil or real good.

 

[Wazzz]

True... then again, it is going to be hard to choose a specific element for each race.
Which is where I'm thinking of allowing certain options for races. Undead will be the hardest to think of what options to give them, but Humans will be able to go with Life, Water or Air (maybe not Air, depends on how many races I introduce). And when I include Orcs, they will get Earth or Fire as their options.

I can't remember if I responded to the additional races thing or not, but as I'm wanting each race to have a very unique gameplay style, the ones... oh yea, I've said about the races I've thought of including. I did have some ideas for an Elf race, but at the same time the race is quite bland atm and I want something more to it. I'll have a think about the Elves, though, as it would be nice to have a less 'chaotic' race added.

Oh yea, and I'm going to make Humans more neutral than 'good'. Just putting it out there, Humans are neutral bastards.

 

[Tleno]

Yes, I always pictured fantasy humans as neutrals and pretty greedy ones... oh, I just tough that humans could have Alchemistry instead of magic. You know, all the magical liquids and such mumbo-jumbo instead of real spells.

 

[Wazzz]

Idk, possibly, that wouldn't be a replacement to magic though, it could be a unit itself.
Alternatively, could be a possibility to have a sort of 'potion' system for a race where they choose their magic as per usual, but implement it with potions and such. Idk, depends on what happens, so far the Humans have a caster unit tho.

I'll write down some spells I'm going to implement for the different elements a bit later.

 

[GhostThruster]

Humans could be steampunk, though I don't think that's what you want.

Perhaps Humans control Lightning, they could be more viking-esque.

 

[Sunshine and Night]

Guys humans should be air themed because they can do many things in most fanatsy games and air does the same sort of thing

 

[GhostThruster]

Well, that's kind of a broad way to classify the humans. The Elves can do many things as well, and I think Water has the most capabilities (heal, slow, damage, summon, frost and more).

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

Okay, so I got something for the Humans. The name of the guy is still your choice, so I'll only give item ideas here. And I take that you're going to do the "item spellbook upgrades" thing you mentioned? These are also fairly "casual" items and upgrades, so to speak.

Reinforced Shield Increases Armor by a flat amount, medium.

Reinforced Shield upgrades:
Spiked Shield Further increases Armor. Physical attacks deal 50% of their dealt damage (pre-mitigation) back to the attacker.
Magic Shield Further increases Armor. Also gives 33% magic resistance.
Spite Shield Further increases Armor. Magical attacks made against you burn 50% of the mana used by the ability of the caster from the caster.
Magma-Hardened Reinforced Shield Massively increases Armor.

Weapon Upgrades (I have multiple weapon types here, also, some are made with the WC3 unit models in mind.)

Reinforced Sword Increases damage by a flat amount, medium.
Reinforced Axe Increases damage by a flat amount, medium.
Reinforced Maul Increases damage by a flat amount, medium.

Reinforced Sword upgrades:
Frozen Sword Further increases damage. Applies a 25% Chill effect on hit.
Serrated Sword Further increases damage. Applies Bleed on hit. Bleed: takes 10 damage per second, healing effects reduced by 20%.
Piercing Rapier Further increases damage. Applies Armor Break on hit. Armor Break: Armor value lowered by 3.
Mastercraft Sword Greatly increases damage.

Reinforced Axe upgrades:
Fury Axe Further increases damage. Increases attack speed by 25%.
Crusher Axe Further increases damage. Applies Crush on hit. Crush: infinitely stackable debuff that reduces attack speed by 5% per stack.
Barrage Axe Further increases damage. Reduces cooldown on T1 spells by 20%.
Triforged Axe Greatly increases damage.

Reinforced Maul upgrades:
Triage Maul Keeps the damage bonus from Reinforced Maul. Reduces cooldown on Restoration spells by 40%.
Counterweighted Maul Further increases damage. Attack speed increased by 25%.
Lavafist Maul Further increases damage. Attacks cause an area effect shockwave (deals 50% damage in an AoE).
Titanium Plated Maul Greatly increases damage.

Upgrades to the upgraded basic items rule each other out (ex. you can't have both a Counterweighted Maul and a Triage Maul).

So, if not the perfect thing, I hope these'll be of use.

 

[Wazzz]

All the elements will have many capabilities, and while some capabilities will overlap, there will be capabilities which do not (naturally).

Yea, I'm staying away from the 'steampunk' side of things for the Humans, although I do like Steampunk, I also like the 'peasant/magic' themed Humans.

Item ideas are looking sweet as!
Although the heroes will only have one weapon type, so to speak, these weapon items can be used for other combat focused heroes (still got to decide what weapon the Human combat hero is going to use even).

Pretty much perfect so far, still wondering what other items the Human Combat Hero will have (I'm thinking of allowing one level 1 spell of your choice on him, so if you choose Life Magic, for example, you could have 'Heal' to make it more of a Paladin, or 'Dispel' to make it more of an anti-caster, etc. etc.).

 

[Tleno]

Anti-mage? Spellcrusher? Witcher? Templar? Those could be the names...

Well that depends from a model and overall type of hero you're going to use... Paladins are ussually imagined with hammers, some brutal warriors can have battle axes, and more valorfull commanders use swords...

 

[Wazzz]

I wouldn't be calling it 'Paladin' so much as calling it a generic name. The roles it could fullfil with different item combinations, however, would allow it to fullfill a number of roles, such as the role a Paladin normally fills out, or a Witcher, or pretty much anything you can think of given the combinations.

 

[GhostThruster]

Any screenshots so far?

 

[Wazzz]

Not as such, there isn't any terrain currently, but I might be able to get a few screenies of just the units (although I don't know if that would be any good).

 

[Tleno]

Nah, no rush man...
Talking about terrain, do you have any ideas how is it supposed to look?

Oh, and you could make few tech trees...

 

[Wazzz]

Well, I was thinking the terrain would be sort of grasslands, where there would be Gold Mines across the map as well as Graveyards. There would be Creep Camps, naturally, but other than that I'm not too sure what it will have so far.

I could make the techtrees, I reckon I'll have to do that now =D
As I want to make it awesome, I'll try and make it using the appropriate icons and such, like a proper, professional looking techtree (might learn some stuff for Photoshop to achieve this ).
Undead techtree will be the most interesting to look at, I reckon lol

 

[GhostThruster]

Cool, need any brainstorming for the Undead techtree?

Could you also sum up the ideas you're gonna use so far (for the Undead)?

 

[Wazzz]

Undead units themselves have been pretty much decided for some time, here's an outline of what I've got so far (excluding the new Bone Pillar unit/tower thingy):

Zombie: Basic melee unit, used as cannon fodder. Has high durability, but there's a chance that any zombie can be killed instantly on any physical attack. Can create a disease cloud when the necro reaches a certain level, causing damage over time to living units.

Skeleton Warrior: Basic melee unit. Takes less damage from ranged attacks. Deals higher damage than the Zombie, better against ranged units than melee units.

Skeleton Archer: Basic ranged unit. Takes less damage from ranged attacks.

Ghoul (maybe): Scouting melee unit. Fast moving with high damage output, can see further at night time than most units ingame. Can detect invisible units.

Wight: Anti-caster unit with a melee attack. Destroys mana on attacks and takes significantly reduced damage from all physical attacks (thinking of changing it to an ability gives it a chance to take no damage from physical attacks, while it takes more damage from physical attacks than magic attacks).

Flesh Golem: Mechanical/Biological siege unit. As this comes in a squad (for now), it's damage bonus against buildings isn't too high, but high enough for them to tear buildings apart. Attacks in melee, only squad unit that doesn't regenerate in numbers, but it does regenerate health over time.

Wraith: Melee caster unit. Can only cast a chosen level 1 spell and a chosen level 2 spell, but has a sweeping melee attack.

Spectral Dragon: Flying attack unit, deals splash damage. May have the same ability as the Wight (in that it can avoid damage from physical attacks).

Ghost: Not really a conventional unit, so to speak, this was originally going to be more of a defensive summon. Basically, this unit is invincible, doesn't deal any damage, but does cause enemy units around it to lose attack and movement speed. However, I am now thinking of making it a permanent summon that lurks around the Graveyard (making it more defensive), and instead of having it invulnerable, I'll probably just make it ethereal.

So, that's what I have. The only unit I'm not too sure about how to execute effectively is the Wight, but I'm thinking of making it more resistant to magical damage than physical damage, even though it doesn't make sense to me on account of magical damage sort of being the counter to it. I might change it's 'mana drain' ability for an 'aging' ability or something, so it's better against physical combat units. Could make the caster unit double as an anti-caster unit or something, too (or just make it that the spell choices you have can allow it to be such, which you will need in either your Necro or Wraith).

 

[GhostThruster]

there's a chance that any zombie can be killed instantly on any physical attack.

I hope it's a really small chance. Or better yet, you could choose a less OP effect such as Zombies will slowly degenerate HP (encouraging you to spam them quickly and use them as cannon fodder).

The Skeletons seem bit boring (the next sentence does not correspond with this one). I'd envision them as REALLY weak in HP, but have an average attack, though, when they are gathered together, they will 1-hit-kill enemies (like Zerglings and Archers).

Ghoul is basically a zombie I would say make Ghosts more accessible and they should be the scouts instead (they don't need to be invisible, what you planned for them already could work very well).

What is a wight btw? If you'd care to explain, I could provide some ideas/improvements.

Flesh Golem doesn't really fit Undead. Something like 'Bone Crusher' would suit more. Undead could use a suicide siege unit too (maybe).

I think you should have some more ranged units. There's only 2 ranged, as far as I can guess (unless the Dragon bites units ).
Wight would make more sense with magic resistance

 

[Ss-4-Goku]

I hope you'll take my "tiered spell" ideas in regard to the spells. Otherwise, the Undead seem fairly cool as they are now.

 

[Wazzz]

Zombie is slower than most ground units, but basically it is a great cannon fodder unit.

The Ghoul is something I'm wondering about... perhaps there's a substitute scout unit, one that can shoot even? But it isn't quite a Zombie in this, it's more so like a swift melee unit, like cavalry minus the horse. But still, a ranged substitute would be cool.

Skeletons are sort of like how you describe, their squad size is 8 and they don't have much HP, but will deal a decent amount of damage for what they are. However, I am wondering whether the Zombie is actually needed.

Wight is like a boney-ghosty unit sort of thing, essentially it will be able to avoid some physical attacks. But yea, I will make it have high Resistance and reasonable Defense, with a chance of avoiding damage from attacks.

The Flesh Golem is questionable for me too, I'm thinking I might replace it with a 'Bone Horror' or something like that, but at the same time that would be resistant to ranged attacks (the resistance to ranged attacks is on account of a Skeletal ability).

The main problems I have with the Ghoul is that it doesn't seem to different to the Zombie or the Skeleton Warrior in that it's yet another melee unit. I also have the same problem with the Zombie and the Skeleton Warrior, but I figure the Skeleton Warrior is at least playing a different role to the Zombie (Zombies are slower, so they try and hold enemies in place while the Skeletons close in swiftly. Oh, and in the lategame, if Zombies die they leave a Plague Cloud to cause damage over time).

So, should I make the Ghoul slightly different, or replace it with a ranged unit? Or perhaps I could just add a ranged unit and have the Ghoul do a slightly different role to the original.

Btw, I wasn't making the Ghoul invisible, it can detect invisible units (which isn't too desirable tbh other than hunting down Necro Spirits atm). Might just make it that the Necro can see invisibles, won't need the Ghoul that way (could make the Ghoul a bulky melee unit, but where would that leave the Zombie?).

So... now I've written down my thought process, I kind of see the most logical reasoning is to get rid of the Ghoul (at least the role it plays). So, what should the new ranged unit be taking it's place? Could be a Ghoul again (like a Roach in that it shoots a short range, only ground targets though), or something completely different. All suggestions are welcome for this one, lads

@Goku: Wasn't the tiered spell idea invovling upgrading spells to better forms of themselves? I'm not too sure about that idea, although I have been wondering whether or not I should make spells more effective for heroes. Atm, I'm thinking it might be enough that they can cast different spells to your casters (unless for some strange reason you choose for them to use the same spells), but at the same time I'm not too sure that's enough.