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Squad-based Fantasy RTS

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Okay, this project so far has no name, but that is not a priority for me yet as I still have some work left to do on it.

Basically, this is an RTS where units come in squads (some might say 'just like godfall', but this is not the case).
The original inspiration for THIS mod lies in my friend randomly telling me to make a mod with a crap load of ideas for the Undead (as I was wanting to start a new project using a squad system made for me by Illidan(Evil)x). After discussing these ideas with my friend, I found myself amazingly excited about these gameplay concepts, as they were amazing and sounded really fun to both implement and play with once implemented.

Anyway, his ideas were for the Undead primarily, and when it came to coming up with ideas for the Humans, he wanted them to be more 'standard'. However, he did come up with a few ideas here and there, which I later expanded on and found myself beginning to enjoy the Human race's gameplay ideas, too.

So, here is what the gameplay should look like so far:

Gameplay Elements


Some basic elements include:
- Items representing upgrades for your units
- Squad system
- Creep camps
- 'Hero' units have researchable Wargear, essentially letting you choose their gameplay style (Hero units do not level)
- Custom Defense and Resistance system (Defense reduces damage taken from physical attacks, Resistance reduces damage taken from magic attacks and spells
- Not all spells can be researched (i.e. You must create a combination for yourself, so you can play to your own style)

Undead


Key Concepts: Gameplay revolves around the use of a Necromancer, which is used to summon unit squads at graveyards using mana as the Undead's primary resource. The Necromancer is the only unit in the game (so far) to 'level up', which is the Undead's equivellent of climbing the techtree (i.e. it enables new units to be trained, enables abilties for certain units and increases pop. cap).


Gameplay Style: What I hope to accomplish from this particular race is to have them more suited for an offensive style of play. This is easily accomplished as the Necromancer needs to 'level' up in order to unlock new tech.
As the Necromancer performs all the required roles in terms of buildings, there is no basebuilding at all for this race. However, you do need to be in a Graveyard to summon more units. These Graveyards will be in strategic locations like Gold Mines for the Humans, but they won't be as plentiful as you can raze certain Creep Camps to create more Graveyards to work from (essentially expanding your domain).
Summoned units start with only 1 unit in their squad (except for one unit, so far), and will grow in number over time to their squad maximum while in a Graveyard (allowing for squads to replenish in number).


Humans



Key Concepts: The Humans are a little more 'conventional' in their gameplay style, in that they build up their base, manage their resources and pump out units from various buildings.

Gameplay: The Human's techtree operates in a progressional structure. Essentially, to get certain units which are higher up in the techtree, you are required to get units from the lower end of the techtree. For example, the most basic unit you can get is a Peasant Squad (which is your worker unit). You can get these pretty easily, especially later in the game. In order to get your first melee unit (the Militia Footman squad), you must recruit a Peasant Squad and then train it at the Barracks (specifying that you want a Militia Footman squad, naturally). The same applies for the first melee unit (the Militia Archer squad). Now, while the Militia Footman squad can go no further, the Militia Archer squad can enter the Stables and be trained in horseback archery to become a Militia Cavalry Squad (which isn't necessarily better than the Militia Archer, just faster and more expensive [roles will be different, which is one thing I noticed most Progressional Techtree Structures lacked]).

_________________________________________________________________

So, that's all I have to say for now. Hopefully a playable beta version should be out soon. Oh, and I am planning out an Orc race in future, but I will probably release the beta with just Humans and Undead first (after beta testing here, naturally).

Now, over to you, Hive. Your thoughts?
 
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Once again, I offer my help.

The Undead are kinda complex, I don't really understand it... So you have hero, whose a called a Necromancer. When he enters a Graveyard...the Graveyard can train units? Also, how are Graveyards built, and are there any upgrades for the Undead? This gameplay really limits the Undead, though I like your ideas.

The Humans, so how do these 'upgrades' work? Will the 'Barracks' and 'Stables' sell dummy items to a Peasant squad leader, who upon receiving them, will turn his squad into a brand new squad of Footmen? Or is it some other way?
Btw, by requiring to get lower-tech units, it will be a hastle late-game for human players to get any good units out.
 
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Undead: Not quite, basically you enter a Graveyard and the Necromancer is then able to summon units. This will be accomplished by having all the Summoning Spells in one Spellbook and enabling the Spellbook while the Necromancer is in the Graveyard.

Oh, and when you reach level 20 on your Necromancer, you will be able to turn it into a Lich. However, while the Lich is much more powerful than the Necro, the Necro has an advantage over the Lich in that if it dies, it can spawn a Ghost that can only be killed if the enemy has Detection. The Ghost can then go to a Graveyard and bring itself back in flesh form.

Human: Yeah, it's pretty much like that. Using the items for upgrades makes it easier to do things like that.

And yea, it will be pretty micro intense, but at the same time you will end up being able to get so many Peasants in the late game (Your Townhall can sell up to 3 squads at once while every Hovel can sell 1 squad each) that you'll literally just have to right click them to go into the Barracks. It's similar to Battle Realms in that way.

Oh, and naturally, there are some units (other than the Peasant, obviously :p) that you can train directly (one from the Barracks, two from the Church/Monastary).
 
Do you only get one Necromancer? And again, how is the Graveyard built? Ghost idea is very cool, I like it. Could add some more depth to it instead of 'run to GY asap' (eg. it could have possession or some aura or something).

Don't emphasise too much on micro, it can ruin a game (just like those stupid Queens in Sc2), by focusing too much on a player's APM and not his actual strategic thinking.
 
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Oh yea, forgot to mention the Graveyards :p
They're just placed, they're sort of like Gold Mines really. And when you kill certain Creep Camps off, you will be able to Raze them (probably have a Zone you have to use a certain ability in or just make the process automatic).

You only get one Necromancer, yes. If it dies, it's not the end of the game, though, and you will be able outfit it with equipment to improve it. Making it become a Lich stops the regernation feature but makes it very powerful, so it's sort of like an all-in ability.

I like the Queens in sc2 =D
But yea, I'm not emphasising too much on micro, but at the same time it's not too hard to manage this progressional techtree (it works by inserting the unit into the building, the rest is automatic).
 
inserting the unit into the building
Ewww...inter-techree-al...

Now that that's out of my chest, perhaps the Necromancer 'haunts' them instead (just like the good ol' acolytes), as it seems strange that Graveyards lie randomly on a battlefield with a pack of wolves around them. It eliminates the need for 1 entire resource for 1 race only (which imo is kinda bad for a strategy map/game).

With the Necromancer, it won't be offensive right? It should be like a Zerg Queen (I love queens and acolytes in examples) that is more of a base management/support unit.
 
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It does have an attack, but in a squad-based environment it won't do too much. However, it all depends on what spellset you choose for it. You will either be able to choose one book with a designated set of spells or choose several spells customly (not too sure which one I'll go with, depends on what other equipment I need to add for the Necro), but ultimately you won't want to have your Necro in battle.

FUUUUUUUUU-
There were a couple of thing I forgot to mention. Units higher up in the techtree will often require a secondary resource called 'Soul Energy' or something like that. To put it simply, you get this by killing things (to further emphasise that the more the Undead kills things, the stronger they get).

Oh, and Graveyards themselves won't have a pack of Wolves or any creeps within them, the locations starting as Graveyards won't have any creeps and Creep Camps won't be able to be converted until the creeps guarding it are killed off (or something along those lines, you wouldn't want to have your Necro converting it to a Graveyard while there are creeps there).

I do like the Haunting idea, could work, but could you further elaborate on how you mean plz?
 
1. Should choose the spells separately (the latter). It allows a more diverse arsenal for the Necromancer. The Necromancer should have a 'defense by offense' spellset, ie. the spells are only useful in defending, but affected an attacker offensively. An example would be a spell that summons a ward which attacks or drains the HP of nearby enemies.

2. I don't like it. Again, you're focusing on the Undead too much. What about the poor humans? What 2nd resource do they get? Plus, with the Necromancer gaining experience and levels to increase tech, the Necro himself is a walking secondary resource.

3. Oh, well I got the idea from this REALLY old (but still fun) game called WarCraft III, you may have heard of it. Basically, the Necromancer can Haunt gold mines.
Unless this was your plan all along (your 3rd paragraph in the above post confused me a bit). So, Gold Mines, just like in melee games, are the prime resource. The Necromancer can haunt them. And, the Humans and any other race also use Gold Mines, thus eliminating a race-exclusive neutral/resource building (the Graveyard).

I'm a bad explainer :(
 
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Oh, you mean using the Necromancer for harvesting? Pfft, I was thinking more along the lines of Necromancer's Mana is the primary resource, Soul Energy is the secondary resource. You only get Soul Energy from killing things.

But yes, the whole idea of the Undead is to focus on controlling your Necromancer in such a way that you are able to raise an army and destroy the enemy through superior numbers. Essentially, you will want to be on the offensive most of the time as the Undead in order to get your Necromancer's level up, get more Soul Energy, and ultimately keep on top of your enemy's unit numbers (it's very resourceful for the Undead to attack Creep Camps).

Now, this may seem unfair for the Humans. But think of it this way. The Humans will require multiple buildings in order to get their units, but at the same time they will be able to mass produce units pretty quickly. The Necromancer will only be able to summon one squad before needing to wait for the cooldown to finish (it applies to the Spellbook as a whole).

The Undead could kill a Human production facility (such as the Barracks or Stables or whatever) and it wouldn't mean too much. If the Humans kill the Necromancer, that shuts down all production for the Undead and puts them at an instant risk of losing the game.

At the same time, the Necromancer provides upgrades (forgot to mention that for 'hero abilities', you will be able to select the next level of upgrades for your units [but it may only effect units within a certain range, to be determined]), provides income, is able to use spells and is used to raise the dead (able to summon units faster than the Humans can produce military units on account of the fact you only have one unit production facility), provides the food cap and becomes more and more powerful as it levels up.

Basically, it's a new way to play the game. While the Humans will be able to play a more 'standard' style of game (which is boring to me, so I added some features to boost their playability), the Undead play a very offensive, all-in sort of game. But at the same time, you can play Macro style or Micro style with the Undead, depending on what way you use the Necromancer. However, the better players will always be attacking something as the Undead in order to improve their 'base'.
 
Nay, never meant that. I meant that there shouldn't be 'placed' capturable Graveyards (which only the Undead race can use/capture), but there should be Gold Mines which Humans can mine from and Undead can Haunt. If this was your idea all along, then I must have misunderstood. I thought the Necromancer's Mana was basically just a 'cooldown' for unit training. But, if his Mana is his primary resource, well it will shatter any hopes of massing troops, combining the fact that Necros must first enter Graveyards (and there's 1 Necro only), and then he has to use his own Mana to summon units.

See here sir, Soul Energy is basically one-sided for the Undead. It's not good to make a resource specific (or a resource that benefits alot more) for only 1 race (eg. a game allows only 'Wood Elves' to gain Lumber), so you should aim for something Humans and Undead both use, but use differently.

I don't think you should focus the race's entire survival based on the Necromancer. I like him leveling up, providing upgrades and shit, but he shouldn't provide income and food cap. I would have though Graveyards do that, so as to encourage Undead players to quickly expand. Perhaps the Graveyards automatically generate Gold or some shit periodically.
 
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OH, I see what you mean XD
Can't believe I didn't understand that now lol
Yeah, that could work well (or something like that =D)

I don't see why I should aim for the Undead and Humans to use the same resources, though.

And as the Undead, you don't actually control the Graveyards, you just visit them to raise the dead ^^
 
I don't see why I should aim for the Undead and Humans to use the same resources, though.
Imagine a Wc3 game where Humans harvested Gold, Orcs harvested Lumber, Undead harvested Bone, and NE harvested ...wool. Not only is it unorganised, but there would have to be a Gold Mine, Trees, Bone Pits, and...Sheep herds on every single map. Ofc, Soul Energy isn't harvested (it's generated from kills as you say), so there won't be any 'Soul Deposits'(or some shit), but it would still be stupid having an icon sitting there in the resource panel, constantly at zero when you play as the Human race. And when you mouse over it, it'll read 'Undead gain it from kills. Only Undead. Benefits Undead. Undead only.' If you were to use another resource, which would fit both races eg. Fate Points (from BFME), the Undead could use Fate Points to train their high-tech units, and the Humans could use Fate to upgrade units or something. This allows both to use, but both to use differently. And, yeah, all you really need to do is decide on a use for Humans and change the name of 'Soul Energy' to something more broad (such as Fate).

it will shatter any hopes of massing troops, combining the fact that Necros must first enter Graveyards (and there's 1 Necro only), and then he has to use his own Mana to summon units.
You must find a way to by-pass this as well. HINT: Don't give the Necromancer Blink.
 
Anywayz, it's much c00ler this way.
How much tiger's bl00d did you take?

I can't explain why, but I just don't think giving 1 race its own resource is fair. I wouldn't mind if all the races used it but the Undead used Soul Energy in a more unique and effective manner (though the more effectively they use it, the more they must be nerfed).
 
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So far, that's all as far as playable races go.
I do have concepts for Demons, Dark Elves, and possibly Wood Elves, but I don't know whether I will go for any more (I want to get the Humans and Undead finished first, then Orcs, then see where the project goes after that :p). So far, the one I'm leaning towards going for after Orcs would be Demons, but that depends on numerous things.
 
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Yea, that's the other reason I'm unsure about including extra races. All the ones I have the good ideas for appear to be classed as evil :p

At the same time, though, it doesn't bother me too much, as it could be purely evil races all together (just because the Humans believe they're good doesn't make them so, amirite? ;D).

Anyway, there won't really be too much in terms of alliances going on in the project, so if there are Demons or Dark Elves or whatever, they won't necessarily be helping the Orcs or the Undead. If I were to attach a storyline, I could have one of the 'evil' races make a deal with the Humans or something.

Oh, and welcome aboard ^^

ADDITIONAL: Orcs aren't so much 'evil' so much as they like killing things a lot. But they're not like Warcraft 3 Orcs who are all like 'boohoo we're so misunderstood *emocut*'
 
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Godfall Chronicles has been continued and is still in production. And while I suppose you can draw some similarities between the projects (in that they implement a squad system and are set in a fantasy universe), I wouldn't say it's so much a similar project. Especially not to how Godfall is played now :p
 
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This reminds me of Warhammer 40k Dawn of War.

And the Undead remind me of Necrons.

Coincidence? I think not. Necrons were fun to play, and these Undead seem at least as fun, so I'm not going to condemn you or anything (not that I would have the power to do so in the first place).
 
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I love the undead too. Though, the leveling-up might have a problem, I mean humans can just barrcade down you, making you unable to harvest more resources. So I think you should make necromancers level up and trough research. You know, using recieved loot to research "Advance to level 2". After researching it, you auotmatically recieve as much xp as it's required to level to that level. If you level up by fighting, the "tech" automatically gets researched.
 
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Hmm... that's not a half bad idea, although gaining experience too fast is the issue I'm trying to avoid atm (squad system causes hero units to level up amazingly fast O:).
But yea, some exp modifiers could be handy, as the Undead could be shut down a little too easily (although you do want it to be possible to shut down the Undead, you don't want them to be stuck on the lower tier for too long :p).
 
tleno raises a good point there! The Humans would crush everything if they use good enough turtling. Though, I'm not for the research. Perhaps set his max level to 5 or something.
And, you didn't answer this:
I thought the Necromancer's Mana was basically just a 'cooldown' for unit training. But, if his Mana is his primary resource, well it will shatter any hopes of massing troops, combining the fact that Necros must first enter Graveyards (and there's 1 Necro only), and then he has to use his own Mana to summon units.
 
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Yeah, true, although the Humans are meant to turtle when encountering the Undead (naturally, there will be other ways to play as the Humans, but you won't want the Undead killing off too many of your units early game).

I do not remember this quote, so here's my answer now :p
Mana isn't the cooldown. As you grow in level, so does your income rate and your maximum mana (which is essentially your resource cap). However, certain Raise Dead spells will have a higher cooldown than others (I might make them all the same), and once a Raise Dead spell is cooling down, the entire Spellbook will cooldown as well.

But this will be balanced like this:
When you train a squad as the Humans, you are training the whole squad at once. Basically, the build time is going to be preset and you won't be able to spam build too quickly in the early game.
When you traina squad as the Undead, however, you get an individual unit each time (except for maybe one squad). But, when you get said individual unit, it will grow in numbers over time within a Graveyard. So, essentially, the squad is still under construction. While this squad is still under construction, you may then begin production of another squad. So, essentially, from the word 'go' you will be able to spam build very easily as the Undead. Naturally, you will need to make a choice between spending your mana on producing more units or casting offensive/defensive spells.
 
When you train a squad as the Humans, you are training the whole squad at once. Basically, the build time is going to be preset and you won't be able to spam build too quickly in the early game.
When you traina squad as the Undead, however, you get an individual unit each time (except for maybe one squad). But, when you get said individual unit, it will grow in numbers over time within a Graveyard. So, essentially, the squad is still under construction. While this squad is still under construction, you may then begin production of another squad. So, essentially, from the word 'go' you will be able to spam build very easily as the Undead. Naturally, you will need to make a choice between spending your mana on producing more units or casting offensive/defensive spells.

So, Undead 'insta/multi-train' their unit leader individually? And these trained leaders, so long as they're near a Graveyard, they grow their squad? What about the Necro's mana regen rate?
 
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Yea, that's 100% accurate except there are no squad 'leaders', persay, as you can have any member of a squad in their and it would regenerate. There will possibly be squads with attached leaders, but other than that there are no 'leaders'. Although that is a little aside from the point and I'm sure you didn't mean what I just explained against anyway :p

Necro's mana regen rate increases as the Necro levels up. And there will be some items that you can choose for the Necro which will enhance this further.
 
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Well, Necro could also have an ability that automatically increases the hero level, requires cast to work and when used it could be replaced with more gold requiring ability. and when all tiers would get researched, you could get some kind of ultimate ability that ould require gold, too. You know, kind of necromancer's super-weapon.

Talking about undead, though tis faction is more of offencive, they still have graveyards to control, so I suggest giving graveyards some kind of defencive capabilities that would appear when necromancer would level up. Upgrading graveyards could work great, too.
 
Dark Ritual type spell could be useful, I'll keep that in mind for now
It would provide an Undead player with exhausted mana a small boost, perfect for a quick defense or something (which the Undead player needs).

Talking about undead, though tis faction is more of offencive, they still have graveyards to control, so I suggest giving graveyards some kind of defencive capabilities that would appear when necromancer would level up. Upgrading graveyards could work great, too.
Yes, the Graveyards need to be fortified. Wazzz, how will you avoid getting the Undead cornered ever so easily by a small tower rush or something? Since, you basically have only 1 base half the time (you have 1 useful GY with a Necro inside half the time, though the Necromancer will also travel around the map the other half), and in that base, you have 1 building, the GY itself. I think the Undead are really susceptible to a tower rush.
 
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Well, how I plan the Humans to build is still in question. Basically, I'm thinking they'll need to build around their base with the system I'm thinking of where they place down building fortifications, and then you put a Peasant Squad inside to work on it. Once that is done, you select which building you wish for them to construct.
So far, this is the most efficient system I have come up with for a squad-based worker unit (squad members create pathability issues).

This Graveyard fortification idea, I like it! But how I am to do this is still in the question. I don't want it so the Undead control the Graveyards, persay. However, if I were to arrange it that there were Necro abilities which could aid in defense (for example, special 'Raise Dead' spells), that could work quite nicely.

I'm thinking one of these could be a Ghost, which is invulnerable and sort of just haunts the area of the Graveyard (maybe invisible too, make it only destroyable by by dispelling it or something). All it will do is reduce nearby enemy's movement speed or something.

Then there could be a Bone Guard or Bone Ward which will be the tower. What I'm thinking is that these could serve as secondary unit summoners, where the Necromancer puts it's 'essence' into the tower, essentially transferring mana to it (to a certain cap, of course). The Bone Guard/Ward will then be able to raise certain low tier Undead units to the battlefield, essentially serving as secondary barracks'.
 
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Sounds good =D
Well, for the Undead, the other hero will be a Death Knight. Basically, this will be a combat centered hero, and thusly it's items will dictate it's themes in combat. I would need to brainstorm some cool ideas for weapons and armour.

For example, for some weapons, I'm thinking a Sword with Life Drain would be a cool strategic possibility. A Sword with a Critical Hit type ability could also be handy. But other than those, I'm kind of stuck for ideas.

Then there'll be the Humans. As the Undead have the Necro and the Death Knight, the Humans will need a caster hero and a combat hero, too. Not too sure about names, thinking the caster could be a Wizard, not too sure about the combat hero though.

Thinking the Wizard should have some cool spell options. Basically, what I'm going to do is make it possible to choose through multiple spells, 1 of each level (from about 1 to 3).
 
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I got a defencive suggestion for undeads. See, you can summon some kind of ward in the area, but it costs mana, and after spawning it your max mana gets decreased by amount equal to the mana used to psawn ward. If ward gets destroyed or you cancel it yourself, your mana restores... so yes, these wards of some kind would be limited by amount of your mana, both maximal and minimal.
The wards themselves, you see, are not just defencive structures, but necromancer can also teleport to one of them.
 
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Alrighty then. As you mentioned some ideas for the heroes, I'll elaborate upon these.

For the Death Knight, I've come up with several items. Of course, you have the 100% right to choose whether these will actually be included.

Dark Armor - Increases armor by a flat amount, medium.
Soul Armor - Upgrade from Dark Armor. Increases armor by a flat amount, relatively small. Added effect: damage increases with every kill (all kills in vicinity of the Death Knight will count, not just the ones he landed a killing blow on).

I'll post some more when I come up with some. For now, that's what I got.
 
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